The Waltons aka Advanced Half Marathon Training Thread - 2022 edition (Read 421 times)

Fredford66


Running Musician

     

     

    all - The inferior thread started gossiping and as such they've passed us in number of pages. We can't allow that to happen, let's get a few discussions started over here, like how Mark runs his easy runs too fast, why marathons suck, etc 😤

     

    I already struggle to keep up.  Maybe I can contribute to the volume by making each reply a separate post rather than putting all my replies into one big post.....

    5k 23:48.45 (3/22); 4M 31:26 (2/22); 5M 38:57 (11/22); 10k 49:24 (10/22); Half 1:48:32 (10/22)

    Upcoming race(s): Winter Series #2 Trail 5k, 12/18; Hangover 5k, 1/1/23
    ccoakley


       

      all - The inferior thread started gossiping and as such they've passed us in number of pages. We can't allow that to happen, let's get a few discussions started over here, like how Mark runs his easy runs too fast, why marathons suck, etc 😤

       

      I was surprised a couple of you commented that you hate tempo runs.  A 20-30 min progression tempo is by far my favorite workout.  What are your favorite speed workouts?

      5k 24:53 (2020) |10k 52:24 (2021) |HM 1:57:14 (2019) |FM 4:24 (2007) |50k 5:57 (2022)

       

       

      darkwave


      Mother of Cats

         

        I was surprised a couple of you commented that you hate tempo runs.  A 20-30 min progression tempo is by far my favorite workout.  What are your favorite speed workouts?

         

        I find 25-30 minute tempos to be one of the most effective workouts for me in terms of building fitness.  That being said, they're not my favorite.  My favorite workout is always either Iwo Jima hills (that hill workout on a lollipop route that you'll see on my strava), 16-17 miles with segments at marathon pace, or long runs that progress down to marathon effort for the last 3rd.

         

        I suspect that to some extent, the workouts that we like the most are those that play to our strengths - those feel natural to us.

        Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

         

        And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

        darkwave


        Mother of Cats

          CFARR - safe trip.

           

          Flavio - thanks for posting the strength stuff. I'm surprised you get such good results with body weight stuff - I never have. OTOH, I'm not very big, so perhaps that's why.

           

          CCoakley - Sorry about the Covid, and I hope the worst is over for your family. WRT to training, if you've been craving a cut back week, I'd take that. Otherwise, I'd stick to the training plan unless you start feeling symptomatic. This recommendation is based on the fact that you want the strongest immune system possible, and my understanding is that cutting back on training can actually depress the immune system some.

           

          BTW, did any of the tornados come close to you?  I thought I heard Richmond had one.  We had a storm line come through mid-day on Friday that featured one of those "get to your basement NOW" alerts on my phone.

           

          Fred - congrats on the race in brutal conditions. It's funny - in some races nobody will line up at the front; at other races, a bunch of people with no right to be there will crowd to the front.

           

          Hashiritai - congrats on the race - you can tell how hard the course is by your time.

           

          Shoes - I can't be the only one who saves special shoes. The Takumi Sens that I set my mile and 5K PRs and the Vaporflies that I set my marathon PR both still happily live in my closet.

          Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

           

          And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

          darkwave


          Mother of Cats

            My week

             

            58 miles running, 3 hours pool-running, and 1500 yards swimming.

            M: 10.5 miles with 3x2400m in 11:04, 10:58, and 10:47 (about 2:50 jogged recovery between each). Followed with leg strengthwork and 500 yards recovery swimming`
            T: 60 minutes pool-running.
            W: 7.5 miles (9:56), upper body weights/core, and 3.5 miles (9:37).
            Th: 10 miles, with 2x1600 in 7:25 and 7:06, and then 8x200 ranging between 49 and 51 seconds. All with full recovery. Followed with leg strengthwork and 500 yards recovery swimming`
            F: 4 miles (9:54) and 80 minutes pool-running.
            Sa: 10.5 miles, including 8 Iwo Jima hill repeats (between 2:00 and 2:30 uphill, 90 second jog, 45-50 second downhill stride, and 60 second jog). Followed with leg strengthwork and 500 yards recovery swimming.
            Su: 12 miles (9:55), 40 minutes pool-running, and yoga.

             

            More adventures with female reproduction (or the lack thereof).  The third try was the charm for the IUD insertion as they finally got it done on Tuesday, so yay!

             

            This week, I also got some bloodwork done to check my iron, Vit D, and folate, since I have had issues with those in the past and have been dragging the last few weeks.  They were all fine, but what wasn't was my cholesterol.  My LDL, which has always been good (80-90ish) has jumped up to 160.  I've gone from excellent cholesterol to bad cholesterol in about 6 months.

             

            One possible cause of this?  Sharp drops in estrogen.  And guess who stopped taking an estrogen birth control pill at the beginning of the month?  Of course, you would normally expect my body to produce enough estrogen even in the absence of birth control, but that wouldn't be the case if I was in menopause.  Which I'm now suspecting is the case.  One common result of menopause is that women's LDL shoots way up.

             

            So I went to see a doctor who is a  menopause specialist on Friday, and she took some bloodwork and in the meantime started me on estrogen cream (apparently there's a stroke risk from estrogen taken orally that is significantly lessened when estrogen is taken transdermally).  So we'll see how I feel over the next week.  In just the three days that I've been on it, I feel like my energy levels are already higher and I have less muscle soreness/stiffness.

             

            Worth noting:

            1) estrogen supplementation is totally legal under USADA, as long as it's not accompanied by testosterone, DHEA, HGH, est.  (just in case you were wondering).

             

            2) if I am indeed in menopause, then the IUD wasn't a wasted effort.  As long as you have a uterus, estrogen supplementation should be accompanied by progestin to lower the risk of uterine cancer.  And the IUD I got is the ideal one for delivering progestin locally to the uterus, where we want it.

             

            3) I think a few people commented with sympathy for me last week.  Thank you for that, but I feel that I should note that all this reproductive health stuff is not a rare health concern limited to me, but something that roughly 50% of the population has to work through.  I'm just a bit more frank/TMI about discussing it than some.

             

            Building on that, a few female runner friends and I have been discussing how NOBODY ever talks in open forums about how childbirth/female hormones/menopause affect running.  It's always limited to women-only forums.  Which creates this subliminal sense among women that if your female hormones etc are affecting your running, or if you don't bounce back right after childbirth or struggle with menopause, it's because there's something wrong with you or you are mentally weak.  Which is not fair.  So several of us decided that since it's an aspect of our running, we're going to discuss female issues whenever they are a factor in our running.

            Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

             

            And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

              Darkwave been a woman is complicated!

              My wife turns 50 soon. Menopause can't be far off.

              I kinda wished I had kept my old Lunaracers from my marathons in 2013 and 2014 but at the time it just seemed like they were old expired shoes.

               

              Flavio there is an underwater canyon that funnels those swells and focuses them onto that spot. Round the corner it will be much smaller on those huge days.

               

              Hash skin cancer is a big issue with our skin in NZ.

              I've spent too much time exposed to it. I had 25 years of windsurfing before running.

              50+ PBs -  

              5k 18.21 Hagley Parkrun  July 21      82.27 % age grade

              10k TT 37.21 may 2nd 2021 strava run 82.51 % age grade

              Half marathon  1.23.30 may 21 80.11 % age grade

              " If you don't use it you lose it,  but if you use it, it wears out.

              Somewhere in between is about right "      

               

              SteveChCh


              Hot Weather Complainer

                Flavio - I’m starting marathon training feeling fresh and fit so there should be plenty of easy not easy fodder in the next few weeks.

                 

                darkwave - yep, I don’t see why it wouldn’t be talked about as it’s obviously a big factor. I hope you’ve not had pushback from the other 50% of the population on discussing it. My partner has quite severe endometriosis so I see first hand the impact it has on her sport (dressage) and life in general. I spend quite a bit of time as a nurse. It takes such a big toll on her.

                Net Downhill PB Southern Lakes Half Marathon 2022 1:27:32, Flat Course PB Christchurch 2016 1:29.25

                Recent Races:   Melbourne Marathon 3:35:03 October 2, 2022, Southern Lakes Half Marathon 1:27:32 May 7, 2022, Motorway 10km 40:49 February 27, 2022, Selwyn Running Festival Half-Marathon 1:29:32  November 7, 2021

                Race plan:  Christchurch Marathon April 16, 2023, New York Marathon 2024

                JamesD


                JamesD

                   

                  I was surprised a couple of you commented that you hate tempo runs.  A 20-30 min progression tempo is by far my favorite workout.  What are your favorite speed workouts?

                   

                  My favorite, and for the last 18 months or so almost my only, workouts are tempo runs.  3 miles is typical, and I build up to 4 or 5 if I'm peaking and healthy.

                   

                  Second favorite in the past has been 5x1200 with 200 walk/200 jog rest (about 3:30), run at or faster than 5K effort.  That's too fast & I suspect has contributed to my hamstring trouble, but it's really satisfying after I'm done.  I especially like starting in early-morning darkness (I use a high school track), seeing it get a little lighter with each repetition, and seeing the sun on my last one.

                  Post-1987 PRs:  Half 1:30:14 (2019); 10K 39:35 (2019); 5K 19:12 (2017); Mile 5:37.3 (2020)

                  '22 Goals: health; consistency; Half<1:30; a PR or AG 80% (done, 82.16% AG 19:19 5K Oct. 1)

                  flavio1980


                  Intl. correspondent

                    Caitlin - My favorite workout is 200s going all out or close to, especially if at the track. I just get such a rush running them.

                     

                    Darkwave - Body weight stuff can produce a lot of results for the upper body and there are pretty advanced moves that require superhuman strength like human flag and planche.

                    Also, if dudes can complain that their dick hurt in the cold morning 😂, I don’t see why you can’t talk about the issues hindering your running.

                    If anything it will very likely help a lot of the lurkers out there.

                    PRs: 1500 4:54.1 2019 - 5K 17:56 2021 HM 1:21:59 2021

                    Up next: 10K Family race

                    Tool to generate Strava weekly

                    Fredford66


                    Running Musician

                       

                      Darkwave - , I don’t see why you can’t talk about the issues hindering your running.

                      If anything it will very likely help a lot of the lurkers out there.

                       

                      +1

                      5k 23:48.45 (3/22); 4M 31:26 (2/22); 5M 38:57 (11/22); 10k 49:24 (10/22); Half 1:48:32 (10/22)

                      Upcoming race(s): Winter Series #2 Trail 5k, 12/18; Hangover 5k, 1/1/23
                      Marky_Mark_17


                        all - The inferior thread started gossiping and as such they've passed us in number of pages. We can't allow that to happen, let's get a few discussions started over here, like how Mark runs his easy runs too fast, why marathons suck, etc 😤

                         

                        I probably helped them by defending myself when a few of the folks on that thread started talking trash.  Some of those debates kinda snowballed a bit.  And if anyone on here mentioned any of their successes as often as Mikkey mentions his moose mug we'd be well ahead.

                         

                        For the record, my easy run pace these days is normally something around 4:30/km (~7:15/mile) 

                        3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)  

                        10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)

                        * Net downhill course

                        Last race: Run the Point 10k, 27 Nov, 35:00, 1st overall

                        Up next: Speights West Coaster, 10 Dec

                        "CONSISTENCY IS KING"

                        Marky_Mark_17


                          Building on that, a few female runner friends and I have been discussing how NOBODY ever talks in open forums about how childbirth/female hormones/menopause affect running.  It's always limited to women-only forums.  Which creates this subliminal sense among women that if your female hormones etc are affecting your running, or if you don't bounce back right after childbirth or struggle with menopause, it's because there's something wrong with you or you are mentally weak.  Which is not fair.  So several of us decided that since it's an aspect of our running, we're going to discuss female issues whenever they are a factor in our running.

                           

                          Aside from you, there's only two people I've ever heard mention the impact of female cycles on running - Lydia O'Donnell (one of NZ's better female runners) and my coach.  After reading your post, I wish that was not the case.  It's clearly relevant to your running so I'm glad you're including it in the discussion.

                           

                          Shoes - I got nostalgic for a little while... there was a pair of Mizuno Wave Hitogami's that occupied a special place in my racing history that I was tempted to hold on to, but in the end I think I threw them out.  I've still got my VF's that I set a ton of PR's in, I used them for training once they outlived their race life, but maybe I should keep them.

                          3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)  

                          10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)

                          * Net downhill course

                          Last race: Run the Point 10k, 27 Nov, 35:00, 1st overall

                          Up next: Speights West Coaster, 10 Dec

                          "CONSISTENCY IS KING"

                            Mark that was a great deal you got on the Speeds. I was a month early unfortunately otherwise I would have grabbed a pair. I really like the Adios 6 but they were $220.

                             

                            Caitlin I like tempo runs too. I run them near a discomfort level that isn't pleasant but that is what half marathon pace feels like.

                            My least favorite workout is 6x1km at 5k pace with 2 min jog recovery. As I get older 5k pace feels brutal on me and my 10k and 5k paces are getting closer together.

                            50+ PBs -  

                            5k 18.21 Hagley Parkrun  July 21      82.27 % age grade

                            10k TT 37.21 may 2nd 2021 strava run 82.51 % age grade

                            Half marathon  1.23.30 may 21 80.11 % age grade

                            " If you don't use it you lose it,  but if you use it, it wears out.

                            Somewhere in between is about right "      

                             

                            Marky_Mark_17


                              Mark that was a great deal you got on the Speeds. I was a month early unfortunately otherwise I would have grabbed a pair. I really like the Adios 6 but they were $220.

                               

                               

                              I picked up a pair at $200 thinking that was a good deal.  Then noticed a week later they were now $149 so I picked up another pair.  I'm well stocked for the next little while haha.

                              3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)  

                              10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)

                              * Net downhill course

                              Last race: Run the Point 10k, 27 Nov, 35:00, 1st overall

                              Up next: Speights West Coaster, 10 Dec

                              "CONSISTENCY IS KING"

                              flavio1980


                              Intl. correspondent

                                 

                                 Shoes - I can't be the only one who saves special shoes. The Takumi Sens that I set my mile and 5K PRs and the Vaporflies that I set my marathon PR both still happily live in my closet.

                                 

                                I'm cold hearted, I just throw them in the garbage bin 😁

                                PRs: 1500 4:54.1 2019 - 5K 17:56 2021 HM 1:21:59 2021

                                Up next: 10K Family race

                                Tool to generate Strava weekly