The Waltons aka Advanced Half Marathon Training Thread - 2022 edition (Read 422 times)

zebano


    Flavio  Great strength work, I hate hanging leg raises (do you keep the knees straight?) they do something to my lower back.

     

    Fred great RR and way to fight and really race that final mile.

     

    Mark  good find on the Speeds! I just bought 2 pair to stock up for marathon training!  Hash  yeah my current pair of Endorphin speeds are at 480 miles and I'm just sad because I've logged some amazing workouts in them. I have a bugle and I've played taps for a couple pairs of shoes.

     

    Tempo runs are my bane. I hate hate hate hate them. Progressions are better but what I really love are alternations above and below T pace like Aussie Quarters (8x400 on / 200 float) or things like Ice Cream Sandwich where teh tempo is broken up with faster parts like the 6xmin on/off; That said, my best two years were 2017 and 2018 and I spent a lot of time just running a simple 20 min tempo every single Tuesday. It's a highly effective workout that you can recover from quickly. Flavio I love your choice of favorite workouts, those would be a close second on my list. Piwi  5x1KM on 2min jog is brutal, why are you doing a 6th rep you masochists?  I did like the workout coach assigned me 2 weeks ago: 4x200 at mile / 200 jog + 4xKM@ starting at 10km progressing down to 3Km + 4x200 faster than mile but controlled. Lots of fun and not nearly as painful as the pure VO2 stuff.

     

    Which creates this subliminal sense among women that if your female hormones etc are affecting your running, or if you don't bounce back right after childbirth or struggle with menopause, it's because there's something wrong with you or you are mentally weak. ;

     

    Just an FYI but I would never suggest you're mentally weak and anyone who has followed your training or read a single race report wouldn't either. There certainly is a stigma about discussing the effects of hormones on running and that is unfair. Keep airing your struggles.

    1600 - 5:23 (2018), 5k - 19:33 (2018), 10k - 41:20 (2021), half - 1:38:57 (2018), Marathon - 3:37:17 (2018)

    zebano


      Ok here's a jumble of thoughts about last week -> There's probably too much Tri specific stuff in here for which I apologize.

      •  Week started with me feeling a little off, HR wasn't up but things just didn't feel right. Mrs. Z had gotten covid the week before so I started testing like crazy (lots of negatives, so I raced).  The big downside is she holed up in our room and I slept on a cot in the living room (not comfortable).
      • Tuesday's workout was 3x[600@LT, 1 min rest, 300@5k, 2-3 min rest] -- really really easy. I didn't feel great but my legs did this trivially (as per the design, long long rests, short reps just getting some turnover in.
      • I took Wednesday off and just worried.
      • Thursday was 3x2 min @ 10k effort on quarter mile jog + 2 x 200m fast but relaxed. This did not feel good. I think I overran the 2 minute segments and just did not feel recovered. 
      • Friday was 15 min + strides. ugg. I told myself it was taper madness and the race would be fine. 
      • Friday PM we drove 2.5 hours to the race site and my son and I got in the water for our first open water swim of the year. Water temp was 62F and I couldn't stop hyperventilating when I put my face in the water. My chest felt constricted and I told myself the goal is to finish and breast stroke it if need be.
      • Saturday I woke up and felt fine. not good, not bad, just fine. I threw out all my plans and told myself to go at a pace where I knew I was racing, but was closer to long tempo effort than any sort of race effort and I knew I needed to eat and drink on the bike. I expected to be out there around 3 hours. 
      • I spent about 10 minutes putting on my wetsuit as best I can. Think about a woman putting on stockings where you start at the bottom and pull up a little at a time only I had to do that over my whole body. One item I forgot this year is wetsuit lube which makes putting the suit on easier, but it felt much better than Friday evening. Water temp was 61 so I just went and sat in the water for about 8 minutes to get used to it. I felt no chest constriction and near the end put my face in 3 times!!  It was windy, it looked nothing like Piwi's wave, but I knew it would push me around. 
      • I started at the very back of the wave of men 40+, got in the water, swam 10 strokes, sighted seeing that I was off course, swam 10 strokes, realized I was off course again and ended up doing about 70-80% of the 1500m breaststroke. I passed a lot of people with only a couple of the quicker women catching me. The major downside was that after the final turn my right calf absolutely cramped up on me and I had to roll onto my back and do some elementary back stroke to get it to calm down. As soon I took two steps in the shallows both calves cramped and I had to stop and float and pull my feet up into dorsiflexion with my hands. I walked into transition just to avoid aggravating the calves. 28:30 out of the water despite the breast stroke and the cramps. 
      • The wind had only picked up to about 19mph on the bike ride which was two loops. The way out into the wind was brutal and the way back was great. I tried to go hard without going lactic and while I succeeded at that I think I have bike fit problems because I got a whole bunch of leg pains in my adductor, groin and upper hamstrings that I have literally never felt before. Note to self: lots of rides with your kids are great family time and good for training the butt to sit in a saddle, they are not good tri training. There's a fit issue and a lack of cycling musculature that I was clearly suffering from.
      • The part about the bike that went well was that I consumed 4 gels (2xhuma, 1xhuma w/ caffeine, 1xSiS) over 1h20m and my stomach had no issues with them.
      • The run .... was all about survival. Those little muscles that the bike aggravated? I could feel all of them. To make matters worse I got out of transition, ran about 150m and realized I had forgot my belt w/ my bib and had to run back. I tried to just make myself run hard but controlled and the first lap and a half was fine but even with people to chase, the final mile and a half I was just fading. I simply couldn't get my cadence up and when I sprinted at the end, my right leg was locking up and didn't have full ROM. That is certainly a worry going into marathon training 46:59 watch time. The aerobic system didn't feel terribly stressed, the stomach was strong but the legs just didn't have anything more after the riding. 
      • Major shout out to my oldest Son (aka the reason I signed up for this). He has been primarily playing tennis with just a side of aerobic activities and he finished, and enjoyed his first Olympic which is about all you can ask for. 

      Takeaways:

      • I think brick workouts (running after the bike) are overrated, but doing one or two would help
      • The goal was to supplement my running with some cycling and swimming. I did great w/ the swimming but I didn't with the cycling. A few workout or rides where I seek out hills would have gone a long long ways.
      • Open water swim practice! I need to learn to swim mostly straight in choppy conditions.
      • Sometimes all you can do is grind it out, and I did that.
      • In running the pace difference going from 5k to 10k or 10k to half is relatively small ... under ideal conditions. The combination of wind, heat (on the run), minimal bike training etc. was something I didn't fully respect! (i.e. I thought 20mph on the bike was a reasonable because I averaged 23 mph the year before at half the distance in perfect conditions). 

      What's next?

       

      A sprint tri this Sunday of course! I get to immediately apply some lessons (worked on the bike fit yesterday) and do a shorter and faster race! After that I'll probably take a week off and spend a month rebuilding my base before training for Twin cities Marathon. I'd love to race a 400, 800 and mile during that month just for fun but we'll see how I feel.

       

      p.s. official times don't seem to be published yet but from what I saw at the finish I was 8/15 for men over 40 or exactly 50% ... meh.

      1600 - 5:23 (2018), 5k - 19:33 (2018), 10k - 41:20 (2021), half - 1:38:57 (2018), Marathon - 3:37:17 (2018)

        Zeb wow great job completing that Tri. It's a huge sport over here.

        On the 6x1kms...well I only do 5 now too. I think 6 is a better prediction of 5k race pace. My 5ks off 5x1kms are a bit slower than the interval pace. But when I did 6 it was spot on.

        50+ PBs -  

        5k 18.21 Hagley Parkrun  July 21      82.27 % age grade

        10k TT 37.21 may 2nd 2021 strava run 82.51 % age grade

        Half marathon  1.23.30 may 21 80.11 % age grade

        " If you don't use it you lose it,  but if you use it, it wears out.

        Somewhere in between is about right "      

         

        Marky_Mark_17


          Just to add some weather complaining to the thread.

           

          It was 17C (63F) at 6am this morning.  I would expect that in Jan, Feb, even March... but June?!?!  Not fun.

          3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)  

          10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)

          * Net downhill course

          Last race: Run the Point 10k, 27 Nov, 35:00, 1st overall

          Up next: Speights West Coaster, 10 Dec

          "CONSISTENCY IS KING"

          ccoakley


            Fred, really nice effort in rough conditions.

             

            Hashiritai, very nice xc race!

             

            DW, glad the IUD worked.  I don't think I'm very in tune with my body, it's never really occurred to me to blame my cycle for my running being off vs sleep/diet/weather.  I'm always impressed you have such detailed knowledge of how things impact you.  No tornado warnings last week but we had one about a month ago and they had to hold the kids at school for an extra 30-45min for it to pass.

             

            Zebano, great job finishing!!! That sounds like such a miserable race experience.  Hope you're able to put it to good use this weekend.

             

            And I just tested +.  So far still feeling fine but I guess I'll take a few days off just in case.  DH and DD are still neg but I don't see how that can last.  I thought I had worked through all the feelings with DS's + but now I'm right back at shock/anger.

            5k 24:53 (2020) |10k 52:24 (2021) |HM 1:57:14 (2019) |FM 4:24 (2007) |50k 5:57 (2022)

             

             

              Caitlin hope it's mild for you like most people. We didn't test + until we felt sick so hopefully it's milder for you.

               

              Mark I think we have short memories. June can still throw out some muggy days. I used to run the Mount joggers event each Queens birthday weekend and it was often warm.

              50+ PBs -  

              5k 18.21 Hagley Parkrun  July 21      82.27 % age grade

              10k TT 37.21 may 2nd 2021 strava run 82.51 % age grade

              Half marathon  1.23.30 may 21 80.11 % age grade

              " If you don't use it you lose it,  but if you use it, it wears out.

              Somewhere in between is about right "      

               

              Marky_Mark_17


                Caitlin hope it's mild for you like most people. We didn't test + until we felt sick so hopefully it's milder for you.

                 

                Mark I think we have short memories. June can still throw out some muggy days. I used to run the Mount joggers event each Queens birthday weekend and it was often warm.

                 

                You may be right but I don't remember ever weather complaining in June before.  Possibly that's because I associate Queens Birthday weekend with the infamous Christchurch HM 2019 which was like around -3C once you factored in the windchill.

                 

                Caitlin - hopefully nothing too serious and you recover quickly.  Most of the stuff I've seen suggests taking some time off and then going very easy for a few days to minimise any risk of it dragging on.

                3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)  

                10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)

                * Net downhill course

                Last race: Run the Point 10k, 27 Nov, 35:00, 1st overall

                Up next: Speights West Coaster, 10 Dec

                "CONSISTENCY IS KING"

                SteveChCh


                Hot Weather Complainer

                  Caitlin - Hopefully it's just the standard cold or not even that for you.  But definitely take a cautious approach.

                   

                  Zebano - Not that I ever was going to but I'm now even more convinced I'll never do a tri.  Great effort and report, hopefully the sprint isn't quite as brutal.

                   

                  Mark - You should have been at the infamous 2017 ChCh marathon!  The rain level was similar but it was bitterly cold with sleet mixed in and a strong southerly for the last 5km.  This weekend looks reasonably good, albeit cold as you'd expect so hopefully another reminder to the organisers that it should have been happening this weekend...

                   

                  Shoes - I feel a pang when throwing out PR shoes but that hasn't been an issue for sometime...now I have PRs, and racing shoes it still probably won't happen for a while as they'll be retired to training shoes.

                  Net Downhill PB Southern Lakes Half Marathon 2022 1:27:32, Flat Course PB Christchurch 2016 1:29.25

                  Recent Races:   Melbourne Marathon 3:35:03 October 2, 2022, Southern Lakes Half Marathon 1:27:32 May 7, 2022, Motorway 10km 40:49 February 27, 2022, Selwyn Running Festival Half-Marathon 1:29:32  November 7, 2021

                  Race plan:  Christchurch Marathon April 16, 2023, New York Marathon 2024

                  Marky_Mark_17


                     

                    Mark - You should have been at the infamous 2017 ChCh marathon!  The rain level was similar but it was bitterly cold with sleet mixed in and a strong southerly for the last 5km.  This weekend looks reasonably good, albeit cold as you'd expect so hopefully another reminder to the organisers that it should have been happening this weekend...

                     

                    Sounds a lot like Taupo 2016.  That was a fun day eh Piwi?

                    3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)  

                    10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)

                    * Net downhill course

                    Last race: Run the Point 10k, 27 Nov, 35:00, 1st overall

                    Up next: Speights West Coaster, 10 Dec

                    "CONSISTENCY IS KING"

                      Ugh yeah my quads froze up in that one.

                      50+ PBs -  

                      5k 18.21 Hagley Parkrun  July 21      82.27 % age grade

                      10k TT 37.21 may 2nd 2021 strava run 82.51 % age grade

                      Half marathon  1.23.30 may 21 80.11 % age grade

                      " If you don't use it you lose it,  but if you use it, it wears out.

                      Somewhere in between is about right "      

                       

                      Marky_Mark_17


                        Ugh yeah my quads froze up in that one.

                         

                        My calves were like rocks for about a week after, combination of old-school flats and it literally being freezing out there.

                        3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)  

                        10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)

                        * Net downhill course

                        Last race: Run the Point 10k, 27 Nov, 35:00, 1st overall

                        Up next: Speights West Coaster, 10 Dec

                        "CONSISTENCY IS KING"

                          Caitlin - Oh, stink one. Sorry to hear that. When it went through our family, our 12-yr old never got it, I only got it mildly, and Mrs Hash (although not officially married...yet!) felt the worst. I teased her about my body being more robust. She reminded me she gave birth to our children. She won. As usual Smile

                           

                          Zeb - Great effort, and interesting read. Yeah, Tri is big over here. I think you're all nuts. I'm tired enough after running, let alone adding two more tough activities to that.

                           

                          Mark/Piwi - My lil sis lives in Auckland (although regularly comes down to see the girls). She's adamant that she'll never return to live in Welly - coz the weather just isn't warm enough. Yeah, but we don't have ants down here. So there. (clutching at straws - would be nice to be a bit warmer, with just sliiiiiiightly less wind)

                           

                          DW - Keep sharing whatever you feel comfortable sharing. The general topic of sharing things that impact our running reminds me of the old  "What do you do to keep yourself safe when running?" question.

                           

                          Watson - Seems you're getting back into it. Maybe you'll make it to one of the XC events in the next couple months?

                           

                          It's a day of sideways heavy rain here in Wellington. I managed to find an hour's gap to run (didn't rain at all), and as soon as I got home the heavy rain came down again. Not overly cold, though - silver linings.

                          50+ age-group PBs:  Half Perish 1:28:11 (Sept '22 - Sandy Point Off-Road Half) - 10km 37:52 (2022 Wellington Road Champs); - Track 5km 18:49 (Aug '22); Track Mile 5:32 (2021)

                          2022 Goals: Half Perish 4:00 pace - Road/Track 10km 3:45 pace - 5km 3:35 pace

                          2022 Races: Whanganui 3 Bridges - Dec 11th

                           

                          flavio1980


                          Intl. correspondent

                            Zeb - Knees tucked. I can do extended leg raises but only 3 or 4 reps I think at the moment.

                            Nice job at the Triathlon. I’m always in awe of how you are capable of going on forever.

                            And then instead of resting you will jump into another race LOL wild Zeb!

                             

                            Mark - The weather complaining committee has rejected your weather complaining.

                            Status: THRESHOLD_NOT_MET

                            Details: A minimum of 20 degrees celsius is necessary for weather complaining on non race days.

                             

                            Caitlin - I suppose avoid workouts for 4 or 5 days. Not running is worse if you can run cause the anxiety will get you.

                            Zinc + Vitamin C, eat well, sleep as much as you can.

                             

                            me - I had a promising workout earlier today. 8x 400 at target 1500m pace.

                            I averaged 81 seconds per rep which is awesome as I need about 78 or 79 seconds per 400 to beat my PR and I always perform better on race day than in training.

                            In other news I had some sort of bug since last week, sore throat but was able to run through it. I figure this is the kind of bug/cold that Mark catches some times, either that or my immune system has finally tipped over. I'm feeling better already, almost through it.

                            PRs: 1500 4:54.1 2019 - 5K 17:56 2021 HM 1:21:59 2021

                            Up next: 10K Family race

                            Tool to generate Strava weekly

                            zebano


                              On the 6x1kms...well I only do 5 now too. I think 6 is a better prediction of 5k race pace. My 5ks off 5x1kms are a bit slower than the interval pace. But when I did 6 it was spot on.

                               

                              That's a great point. I found shortening up the rest to 90 seconds for a predictor workout works fine with 5 reps but I actually use the Aussie Quarters workout I mentioned earlier. If I can hold the recovery pace at about M + 30 seconds or faster then I know I can race the "on" pace for a 5k.

                               

                              Mark 17F sounds amazing right now!! I have to get out the door by 5:30Am to get that. Wink

                               

                               

                              Caitlinn, so sorry, I hope you get a mild case. My wife has been fine for 10 days now but is still testing positive which is super aggravating.

                               

                               

                              Steve  Fair point. I always tell people the best exercise plan is one you can stick to. I happen to enjoy biking and swimming with my family so I'll probably continue to do a few but choose only the sprint distances.

                               

                              Hash  yeah two guys ran 35 minute 10k the other day at the end of the tri, I imagine training for that is like 20+ hours a week. Simply absurd.

                               

                              Mark (et al),  what did you guys do with your flats when you got supershoes? I still have two pair sitting on my shelves without enough miles to justify throwing them out.

                               

                              Flavio  I just took two days totally off thank you very much. Contemplating racing a 5k on the 10th now though.... =0

                               

                              Lets talk mile predictor workouts, what type of rest on the 8x400 and how does that translate for you? I've found that even with a minute rest it's just a little too easy compared to race day for me. Maybe 10x400 on min rest would work but that just sounds brutal.  I think I'd prefer to try some broken mile type things KM @ race effort, 4 min rest, 600@ race effort, 2 min rest, 400 was one someone told me about once and it sounds terrible.

                              1600 - 5:23 (2018), 5k - 19:33 (2018), 10k - 41:20 (2021), half - 1:38:57 (2018), Marathon - 3:37:17 (2018)

                              Fredford66


                              Running Musician

                                Hi all.  I've been keeping up on reading all these posts, but life has gotten hectic here, so I've lagged on my responses and shout-outs.  Sorry about that.

                                 

                                Favorite Workout - I can't say I have one.  A lot depends on how I feel that day and/or what the conditions are like.  It's the same reason I hate the "favorite movie" security question - my favorite movie depends on my mood at the moment I'm asked.

                                 

                                Mile predictors - I've never done this workout, so I don't know, but I'm interested in seeing what others post in case I decide to attempt it.

                                 

                                Running with glasses - I have a poor track record with contacts, so instead I have a pair of lightweight, distance-only eyeglasses that I use for running.  They lenses are small enough so I can easily look out from underneath them in order to read my watch (older folks will know what I'm talking about).  If was wearing contacts, I might not be able to read my watch at all.

                                 

                                I was thinking about a rest day today, but it's Global Running Day.....

                                5k 23:48.45 (3/22); 4M 31:26 (2/22); 5M 38:57 (11/22); 10k 49:24 (10/22); Half 1:48:32 (10/22)

                                Upcoming race(s): Winter Series #2 Trail 5k, 12/18; Hangover 5k, 1/1/23