The Waltons aka Advanced Half Marathon Training Thread - 2022 edition (Read 421 times)

    Marco welcome back. I still have you on my strava.

    I remember you as one of the first people on here to get covid. I think it was the strong early covid and it really delt to you.

    Has this been the cause of your current issues or do you think it was the vaccines not agreeing with you ?

    It must be very frustrating and I hope you can regain your energy levels soon.

     

    Zeb nice job on that mile especially with your current niggles. What breathing pattern do you expect in a mile ? I'm trying to think but 3/3 is when you are cranking isn't it anyway?

     

    Fred don't the Amish know it's time to go electric 

    50+ PBs -  

    5k 18.21 Hagley Parkrun  July 21      82.27 % age grade

    10k TT 37.21 may 2nd 2021 strava run 82.51 % age grade

    Half marathon  1.23.30 may 21 80.11 % age grade

    " If you don't use it you lose it,  but if you use it, it wears out.

    Somewhere in between is about right "      

     

      There is no chance of Wellington being that warm in September.  But there is of Upper Hutt being that warm.  It probably won't be though.

       

      I cannot find it now, but about 5 years ago Strava released metrics on the London Marathon.  Something like 0.5% had the course short according to GPS.

       

      You guys know that it CAN be warm in Wellington, eh!? lol

       

      So, I've gone down the rabbit hole of GPS data...at 5.30 in the morning (showing my dedication to this thread, despite of recent lack of posting!). I found the below blog post, which has a graph showing typical GPS mileage recorded by marathon runners (not that I'm concerned with running a short course in the slightest!)

       

      Course accuracy: why your GPS watch isn't infallible | Running | The Guardian

       

      One thing I learnt about certified courses is that they are always long - by one metre per kilometre (to make sure they are definitely not short). This little ditty of information didn't really fill me with confidence..."Yes, we've accurately measured this course to make sure it is the correct distance. However we've also added some extra distance, just in case we were wrong" lol

       

      Anyway, that'll be my only contribution to the topic, because I'm not fussed either way to be honest

      50+ age-group PBs:  Half Perish 1:28:11 (Sept '22 - Sandy Point Off-Road Half) - 10km 37:52 (2022 Wellington Road Champs); - Track 5km 18:49 (Aug '22); Track Mile 5:32 (2021)

      2022 Goals: Half Perish 4:00 pace - Road/Track 10km 3:45 pace - 5km 3:35 pace

      2022 Races: Whanganui 3 Bridges - Dec 11th

       

      watsonc123


        Mikkey - the article that Hash posted is what I was trying to find.

         

        Hash - well done on finding it.

        PRs: 5km 18:43 (Dec 2015), 10km 39:59 (Sep 2020), half 1:26:16 (Sep 2016), full 3:09:28 (Jun 2015)

         

        40+ PRs: 5km 19:31 (Oct 2020), 10km 39:59 (Sep 2020), half 1:29:39 (Jun 2018), full 3:13:55 (Sep 2022)

        Marky_Mark_17


          Yeah thanks Hash.  The one that jumped out to me was that the median marathon distance is 26.34 miles.  The standard deviation wasn't stated, but just eyeballing the graph would suggest that ~10% of measurements were actually short of the distance.  A lot more than the 0.5% that Watson initially thought.

           

          The clearest example I had was NZ Road Champs in 2018.  For some reason my watch came up stupidly short (9.81km)... but at least 90% of the other racers were 10.05 or greater, so obviously it was actually fine.  That was on a course with a lot of quite long straights too and out in Cambridge in the countryside where there was nothing around that would really mess with a GPS signal.

           

          For some reason a few folks (ok, mostly just JMac on the other thread) like playing gotcha with this stuff but the fact is that you can't conclusively say a course is short without a reasonable sample (one or two GPS measurements clearly don't cut it).

           

          The one slight exception to this is tracks.  They measure the distance around lane 1 from the very inside of the track (36.5m radius for lane 1 on the bends) and it actually works out to 398.12m.  However they then add an extra 0.3m to account for the width of the runners body, so if you use the adjusted radius of 36.8m it gets you to 400m total.

          3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)  

          10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)

          * Net downhill course

          Last race: Run the Point 10k, 27 Nov, 35:00, 1st overall

          Up next: Speights West Coaster, 10 Dec

          "CONSISTENCY IS KING"

          Fredford66


          Running Musician

             

            The one slight exception to this is tracks.  They measure the distance around lane 1 from the very inside of the track (36.5m radius for lane 1 on the bends) and it actually works out to 398.12m.  However they then add an extra 0.3m to account for the width of the runners body, so if you use the adjusted radius of 36.8m it gets you to 400m total.

            The track is where my watch always seems to measure long.  I run in lane 1 and my watch almost always registers one mile in less than four laps whereas a mile is really four laps plus nine meters.

            5k 23:48.45 (3/22); 4M 31:26 (2/22); 5M 38:57 (11/22); 10k 49:24 (10/22); Half 1:48:32 (10/22)

            Upcoming race(s): Winter Series #2 Trail 5k, 12/18; Hangover 5k, 1/1/23
            Marky_Mark_17


              The track is where my watch always seems to measure long.  I run in lane 1 and my watch almost always registers one mile in less than four laps whereas a mile is really four laps plus nine meters.

               

              Mine too.  Couple of reasons for this:

              1. GPS tends to slightly, persistently overshoot the corners.  So if you are running in lane 1, it will typically measure slightly more than 400m.

              2. If you are wearing your watch on your right hand (and running anti-clockwise as most do on the track), then the watch is actually slightly further out in lane 1 than the rest of your body so it will measure slightly further than 400m.

               

              Garmin's newer watches have a track mode that corrects for the first issue very effectively.

              3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)  

              10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)

              * Net downhill course

              Last race: Run the Point 10k, 27 Nov, 35:00, 1st overall

              Up next: Speights West Coaster, 10 Dec

              "CONSISTENCY IS KING"

                Fred yes that is typical on the track. I once did a 10000m time trial on the track which came up at 10.2km on my watch.

                 

                Nearly all my races round mount maunganui are short. I don't know if it's lazy measuring or running under tree coverage with a 200m vertical hill beside me.

                I think Auckland and Melbourne marathons were the only 2 races I can be confident on distance.

                50+ PBs -  

                5k 18.21 Hagley Parkrun  July 21      82.27 % age grade

                10k TT 37.21 may 2nd 2021 strava run 82.51 % age grade

                Half marathon  1.23.30 may 21 80.11 % age grade

                " If you don't use it you lose it,  but if you use it, it wears out.

                Somewhere in between is about right "      

                 

                watsonc123


                  Marco - welcome back.  Please post your weeklies even if you can only manage a small amount of running.

                  PRs: 5km 18:43 (Dec 2015), 10km 39:59 (Sep 2020), half 1:26:16 (Sep 2016), full 3:09:28 (Jun 2015)

                   

                  40+ PRs: 5km 19:31 (Oct 2020), 10km 39:59 (Sep 2020), half 1:29:39 (Jun 2018), full 3:13:55 (Sep 2022)

                  Marky_Mark_17


                    Marco - welcome back.  Please post your weeklies even if you can only manage a small amount of running.

                     

                    +1!

                     

                    Great to see you back Marco.

                    3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)  

                    10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)

                    * Net downhill course

                    Last race: Run the Point 10k, 27 Nov, 35:00, 1st overall

                    Up next: Speights West Coaster, 10 Dec

                    "CONSISTENCY IS KING"

                    Mikkey


                    Mmmm Bop

                      The track is where my watch always seems to measure long.  I run in lane 1 and my watch almost always registers one mile in less than four laps whereas a mile is really four laps plus nine meters.


                      Yep, I ran a track marathon in 2019 and my Garmin measured 28 miles (although I ended up running the majority of the race in lane 2)

                       

                      At least there’s no issue with course distance on a track. 

                      5k - 17:53 (4/19)   10k - 37:53 (11/18)   Half - 1:23:18 (4/19)   Full - 2:50:43 (4/19)

                      Marky_Mark_17


                        Watson - it looks like Hiro is going to run Senior Men instead of Masters at nationals. Not surprised given the form he’s in. I can’t remember the last time Dan Jones got beaten in a race in NZ!

                        3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)  

                        10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)

                        * Net downhill course

                        Last race: Run the Point 10k, 27 Nov, 35:00, 1st overall

                        Up next: Speights West Coaster, 10 Dec

                        "CONSISTENCY IS KING"

                          Mikkey that's a good point. Track is the only sure thing unless it's measured short 

                          50+ PBs -  

                          5k 18.21 Hagley Parkrun  July 21      82.27 % age grade

                          10k TT 37.21 may 2nd 2021 strava run 82.51 % age grade

                          Half marathon  1.23.30 may 21 80.11 % age grade

                          " If you don't use it you lose it,  but if you use it, it wears out.

                          Somewhere in between is about right "      

                           

                          watsonc123


                            Mark - are you sure Hiro is running senior mens?  It also doesn't look like Dan Jones is running either.  Maybe they're both unavailable?

                            https://athleticswellington.org.nz/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/Athletics-Wellington-Teams-for-New-Zealand-Road-Champs-25-Aug.pdf

                             

                            Also big congrats to Hash for making the M50 team, even if Athletics Wellington cannot spell his name correctly.

                            PRs: 5km 18:43 (Dec 2015), 10km 39:59 (Sep 2020), half 1:26:16 (Sep 2016), full 3:09:28 (Jun 2015)

                             

                            40+ PRs: 5km 19:31 (Oct 2020), 10km 39:59 (Sep 2020), half 1:29:39 (Jun 2018), full 3:13:55 (Sep 2022)

                            watsonc123


                              I've just noticed they also cannot spell Mel (Brandon).

                              PRs: 5km 18:43 (Dec 2015), 10km 39:59 (Sep 2020), half 1:26:16 (Sep 2016), full 3:09:28 (Jun 2015)

                               

                              40+ PRs: 5km 19:31 (Oct 2020), 10km 39:59 (Sep 2020), half 1:29:39 (Jun 2018), full 3:13:55 (Sep 2022)

                              Marky_Mark_17


                                Mark - are you sure Hiro is running senior mens?  It also doesn't look like Dan Jones is running either.  Maybe they're both unavailable?

                                 

                                Hiro's entered in Senior Mens: https://2022nzroadracechamps.eventdesq.com/org/confirmed

                                 

                                A lot of the top guys leave it until the last minute to enter, there's often a bit of gaming that goes on around the Senior Men in particular.

                                 

                                I'm picking it will be a very close competition in the MM35-49 between Auckland and Wellington for the teams medals (top 4 runners for each region count).  I'll wait until next week once entries have closed and we actually know who's running in what grade but based on last weekend's results it's going to be very competitive between the top 4 for Auckland and Wellington.

                                 

                                And yes - well done Hash!

                                3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)  

                                10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)

                                * Net downhill course

                                Last race: Run the Point 10k, 27 Nov, 35:00, 1st overall

                                Up next: Speights West Coaster, 10 Dec

                                "CONSISTENCY IS KING"