The Waltons aka Advanced Half Marathon Training Thread - 2022 edition (Read 391 times)

Fredford66


Running Musician

    Hash - Your article confirmed for me something I'd often suspected: GPS is off more on cloudy days.  I'd noticed I was getting slightly longer readings for the same routes when the sky was overcast or raining.

     

    Zebano - I agree with your distaste for heavily cambered roads.

     

    This article says that running is actually good for the cartilage in your knees. 

    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/19/well/move/workout-exercise-knee-health.html

     

    I trust you folks from New Zealand will forgive me if I'm not up to speed on all the runners you're discussing.

     

    I'm back from the short road trip and only gained ½ pound, which is pretty good considering we were eating out all the time, including two trips to all-you-can-eat smorgasbords with dessert bars.

    5k 23:48.45 (3/22); 4M 31:26 (2/22); 5M 39:24 (11/21); 10k 50:32 (10/21); Half 1:50:46 (4/22)

    Upcoming race(s): Crest Best Half Marathon, 10/9
    Fredford66


    Running Musician

      5k 23:48.45 (3/22); 4M 31:26 (2/22); 5M 39:24 (11/21); 10k 50:32 (10/21); Half 1:50:46 (4/22)

      Upcoming race(s): Crest Best Half Marathon, 10/9

        Fred great photo you look very fit and healthy.

         

        Mark the Mt. Maunganui half and 10k were on yesterday.

        Course length.....21.75 and 9.85 kms on alot of strava feeds 

        50+ PBs -  

        5k 18.21 Hagley Parkrun  July 21      82.27 % age grade

        10k TT 37.21 may 2nd 2021 strava run 82.51 % age grade

        Half marathon  1.23.30 may 21 80.11 % age grade

        " If you don't use it you lose it,  but if you use it, it wears out.

        Somewhere in between is about right "      

         

        ccoakley


          Maybe  GPS in NZ is just not as accurate as in the US/Europe because they use different satellites?

           

          https://www.linz.govt.nz/data/geodetic-services/satellite-based-augmentation-system

          5k 24:53 (2020) |10k 52:24 (2021) |HM 1:57:14 (2019) |FM 4:24 (2007) |50k 5:57 (2022)

           

           

            Caitlin funny you mention that as my running partner suggested it today on our run.

            If it's true Jmac and Mikkey will be buying Mark beer for the rest of his life 

            50+ PBs -  

            5k 18.21 Hagley Parkrun  July 21      82.27 % age grade

            10k TT 37.21 may 2nd 2021 strava run 82.51 % age grade

            Half marathon  1.23.30 may 21 80.11 % age grade

            " If you don't use it you lose it,  but if you use it, it wears out.

            Somewhere in between is about right "      

             

            Marky_Mark_17


              Fred - yep love the shorts too!

               

              Piwi - that particular course is one I will definitely agree is short.  But yes it would be funny if that was true.  I think JMac's head would explode.

               

              Caitlin - that's interesting - I had actually heard from a work colleague that there were some government projects happening around this but I didn't realise that it would augment current GPS.  I'll admit I don't totally understand how it would make the GPS on my Garmin more accurate unless it's somehow using that system as well.  But there have been occasional patches here of multiple NZers having GPS go quite wrong around the same time (there was one a few months back).

               

              Me - as I mentioned, I recovered suspiciously fast from the race and was able to hit a surprisingly big workout Tuesday.  Pretty good week in the bag and now looking forward to National 10k Champs next Sunday.

               

              Tues: 5 x 4 min hard / 1 min easy

              Thurs: 4 x 1 mile (build pace throughout) / 400 jog

              Sat: 7 x 1km steady (building to hard by final repeat) / 1 km easy

               

              Weekly for period: From: 22/08/2022 To 28/08/2022

              Date Name mi km Duration Avg/mi Avg/km Elevation Gain
              in m
              22/08 That run where it’s back to the grind (but not for long) 4.48 7.21 00:32:51 07:20 04:33 14
              23/08 That run where I helped a guy who crashed his scooter 9.37 15.07 00:58:13 06:13 03:52 29
              24/08 That run where the shipwreck was gone 6.84 11.01 00:48:05 07:02 04:22 28
              25/08 That run where the ducks brought some new friends 8.90 14.32 00:54:07 06:05 03:47 92
              27/08 That run where I realised after 10km I was not wearing the shoes that I thought I put on 9.06 14.57 00:58:37 06:28 04:01 83
              28/08 That run with the new earbuds and the new Machine Head album 12.70 20.43 01:29:59 07:05 04:24 218

              Total distance: 82.62km (51.35 imperial half crescents)

               

              Anyway so entries for NZ Road Champs close in 12 hours or so, if the teams stay as they are it will make for a tight competition between Auckland and Wellington in the M35-49 teams (each region can enter up to 8 runners with the top 4 placers counting towards the team medals).

               

              Based on regional results and the top 4 times from each region, Mace (AKL) > Garmonsway (WLG) > Horspool (WLG) > Moore (AKL) > Crowhurst (AKL) > Clendon (WLG) > Paterson (AKL) > Day (WLG). 

               

              Apart from Simon Mace, who should win comfortably on form, there is less than 90 seconds between the other 7 based on last weekend's times and allowing for differences in courses and conditions it is probably even less than that. 

               

              I don't think any of the other regions have the same depth and won't challenge for 1st and 2nd in the teams, but there are some individual runners who will likely be in that 32-34 minute range and hence could impact the placings of the Auckland and Wellington runners (the medals are based on cumulative placing for the top 4 runners, lowest = best).

               

              This could lead to some very tactical racing, for example if the above was how everyone finished in the race on Sunday there's a huge incentive for Wellington to try and get someone between Nick Horspool and Nick Moore, or for Paul Crowhust to try and get someone between him and Dan Clendon.  Anyways it definitely adds a fun dimension to the event.

              3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)  

              10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)

              * Net downhill course

              Last race: National 10km Road Champs, 4 Sept, 34:13

              Up next: Nelson Half Marathon, 6 Nov

              "CONSISTENCY IS KING"

              Fredford66


              Running Musician

                Mark - Best of luck next weekend.  How does the teams thing work?  Is it like cross country, where you score points based on your order of finish and lowest team score wins?  Thanks on the shorts.

                 

                Piwi - Thank you for your kind comment.

                 

                A big week for me, both in mileage and getting into next year's NY Marathon.  My last race for qualifying is named for Grete Waitz, first woman to run a marathon in under 2½ hours and 9-time winner of the NY Marathon.  Sadly, I wasn't able to put in a good effort due to the mileage I'd already run that week and the weather on race day, which was 75º (24C) in the shade at the start, much warmer in the sun, and got warmer quickly as the race went on.  Despite the two biggest hills being in the first half, I had a positive split ( 31:09 vs. 32:35) and though I was not dehydrated at the end, I was quite warm and feeling a little foggy afterwards (my RP said I seemed a little distant or disconnected right after the run) - the Italian Ice they were handing out helped a good deal.

                 

                Happily, the sky remained overcast for this morning's long run, so though the temperature in the shade wasn't much better than yesterday, everywhere was in the shade.  My son ran the last 5 miles with me today and reverted to form, giving me Pokemon factoids and details of the soon-to-be-released Splatoon3.  I drank two pints of water during the run and another 1½ after the run and was still over 3 pounds lighter at that point, meaning I had sweat out close to 7 pounds during the run.

                 

                Date ▲ Course Type Distance Duration Pace Temp
                8/22/2022   Easy   5.0 mi    52:48 10:34 73
                8/24/2022   Pace   9.1 mi 1:23:25   9:10 64
                8/25/2022   Easy   5.2 mi    54:37 10:31 85
                8/26/2022   Easy   8.7 mi 1:31:52 10:34 70
                8/27/2022

                Grete's Great Gallop

                Race 10.0 km 1:03:44 10:16 75
                8/28/2022   Long 14.0 mi 2:11:34   9:24 73

                 

                48.2 miles (77.6km) on the week

                5k 23:48.45 (3/22); 4M 31:26 (2/22); 5M 39:24 (11/21); 10k 50:32 (10/21); Half 1:50:46 (4/22)

                Upcoming race(s): Crest Best Half Marathon, 10/9
                darkwave


                Mother of Cats

                  Hi all - just thought I'd check in briefly. My excuse for being absent the last two weeks is that I am starting a new job tomorrow (still a lawyer, just moving from private sector to public sector).  So I've been really busy trying to close out/transition stuff at my old job and do all the paperwork to onboard for my new job. Next week I hope to be back to posting regularly.

                   

                  I'm still tentatively planning on running the Chicago Marathon. It's tentative because of the swap to the new job, which means I start from zero in terms of accrued vacation, sick leave, etc. Combine that with the fact that I'm now working with a movement disorder specialist neurologist who wants to run a few tests in the next month (which will require time off from my new job) and it may be hard for me to fit in a trip to Chicago to run a marathon. We shall see. In the meantime, my fitness is improving from the training, so no reason not to keep doing it to keep the option open.

                   

                  Sorry for not commenting this week - I hope to get back to it next week.

                   

                  ***

                  57 miles running, 5 hours pool-running, and 1000 yards swimming.
                  M: 6 miles, including some relaxed 200s focusing on form, and then 1 hour pool-running.
                  T: 10 miles very easy (9:50), drills/strides, and upper body weights/core.
                  W: 12 miles, with 2 sets of (2K, 1200, 1600) at 10 mile race effort plus 400m a bit harder. Splits were 8:52, 5:13, 6:54; 8:38, 5:08, 6:48; and 97. Recoveries of 2:3x-2:4x in the sets, and 5:16 and 5:40 after each set. Followed with leg strengthwork and 500 yards recovery swimming.
                  Th: 2 hours pool-running and streaming yoga.
                  F: 12 miles very easy (9:42), drills/strides, and upper body weights/core.
                  Sa: 17 miles, including 2x5 miles at marathon effort (paces were 7:37 and 7:34) with 1 mile easy in between plus a water break. Followed with injury prevention work and 500 yards recovery swimming.
                  Su: 2 hours pool-running and streaming yoga.

                  Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

                   

                  And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

                  Marky_Mark_17


                    Darkwave - congrats on the new job.  I was actually just thinking earlier that we hadn't seen you for a week or two.  Always tough trying to get leave early in the piece at a new job though.

                     

                    Fred - sounds like a very tough day out there, good effort just getting it done.  What is Italian Ice?  I'm guessing not gelato lol.  And yes, the teams points works exactly like cross country - they just add the placings up for the four fastest finishers for each team and lowest total wins.

                    3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)  

                    10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)

                    * Net downhill course

                    Last race: National 10km Road Champs, 4 Sept, 34:13

                    Up next: Nelson Half Marathon, 6 Nov

                    "CONSISTENCY IS KING"

                    SteveChCh


                    Hot Weather Complainer

                      Fred - Sounds like a very rough day for a race, and a positive split even with the early hills points to some decent suffering.  piwi did well not to comment on the background of your photo.

                       

                      darkwave - good to see you continuing to build back to your best.  When I start a new job I usually tell them about pre-booked leave/holidays after the offer but before I accept.  Most companies would prefer to accept that than go further down their list, assuming the demands aren't ridiculous.

                       

                      Mark - Is there any live stream of the event?  Sounds like it could be quite interesting tactically.

                      Net Downhill PB Southern Lakes Half Marathon 2022 1:27:32, Flat Course PB Christchurch 2016 1:29.25

                      Recent Races:   Southern Lakes Half Marathon 1:27:32 May 7, 2022, Motorway 10km 40:49 February 27, 2022, Selwyn Running Festival Half-Marathon 1:29:32  November 7, 2021

                      Race plan:  Melbourne Marathon October 2, 2022.  Queenstown Half Marathon November 19, 2022

                      Fredford66


                      Running Musician

                        DW - I hope you get to run Chicago.

                         

                        Mark - Italian Ice is a paper cup of shaved ice with flavored syrup added to it.  I'm sure there are other names for it in other places.

                         

                        Steve - To be clear, it was my RP who took the photo.  Yes, it was a day for suffering.  For those who know Central Park, we started in the southeast, so Cat Hill and Harlem Hill were early in the race.

                        5k 23:48.45 (3/22); 4M 31:26 (2/22); 5M 39:24 (11/21); 10k 50:32 (10/21); Half 1:50:46 (4/22)

                        Upcoming race(s): Crest Best Half Marathon, 10/9
                        watsonc123


                          It looks like the Aus-NZ GPS service will be a special service.  So it's pretty unlikely Garmin will fork out the subscription for it, plus potentially substantial technology issues.  E.g. would Garmin give you an "on the run" provisional distance, and then post run it would alter etc.?

                           

                          I doubt the NZ Masters 35-49 will be that tactical.  I think everyone will just run as fast as they can.  To add to it, the race is open to any M35-49 who is registered with Athletics NZ who pays $20, so there'll be people being lapped given the course is over 8 laps.

                           

                          Darkwave - nice week and congrats on the new job.

                           

                          Mark - nice week.

                           

                          Fred - sorry the race did not go well.

                           

                          My week ended up light.  I was very tired from the 10km last Saturday.  Wednesday's workout actually went well, as I hit all paces (a few weeks earlier I'd faded on the 7th and 8th HMP intervals).  But later in the week I still felt tired, so ended up skipping the Saturday long run, and just doing a club run (first I've done in a while).

                          Weekly for period: From: 22/08/2022 To 28/08/2022

                          Date Name mi km Duration Avg/mi Avg/km Elevation Gain
                          in m
                          22/08 Afternoon Run 3.23 5.20 00:29:06 09:01 05:36 9
                          24/08 Afternoon Run - 8 * (4:00 HMP and 4:00 Steasy) 11.60 18.67 01:30:02 07:46 04:49 33
                          25/08 Evening Run 4.35 7.01 00:39:36 09:06 05:39 18
                          26/08 Afternoon Run 3.25 5.22 00:29:39 09:07 05:41 9
                          27/08 Afternoon Run - Trentham Harriers Run 8.03 12.92 01:09:35 08:40 05:23 77

                          Total distance: 49.02km

                          PRs: 5km 18:43 (Dec 2015), 10km 39:59 (Sep 2020), half 1:26:16 (Sep 2016), full 3:09:28 (Jun 2015)

                           

                          40+ PRs: 5km 19:31 (Oct 2020), 10km 39:59 (Sep 2020), half 1:29:39 (Jun 2018), full 3:13:55 (Sep 2022)

                          JamesD


                          JamesD

                            Fred - Congrats on getting into the marathon.  Being foggy after a race would worry me, but I’m glad the Italian ice helped you recover.

                             

                            darkwave - Glad to see you back (I was wondering), and hope the new job goes well.

                             

                            Mark - Good luck Sunday!

                             

                            Race Report, Country’s Midnight Express 5K, 12 midnight Aug. 27/28

                             

                            This race, sponsored by a barbecue restaurant, has been held every year since 1981, missing only 2020 for covid.  For many years it was the largest in town, topping out at over 3,000 finishers in 2013 and averaging a little over 1,100 more recently.  Post-covid only 525 ran last year and around 750 this year.  I’ve never done it because starting a race at midnight when I’m sleepy was unappealing and seemed a little dangerous given the difficulty of seeing potholes or other runners’ legs in the crowded darkness.  Also, I have trouble sleeping after hard evening runs, let alone a midnight race.  Still, there were no other appealing races I could use to bust rust before an October goal 5K, and I figured I might as well try it once since so many casual runners we know have done it.  DW and our son ran it one year while I was out of town.  She decided to do it this year since I was, but her only running in the last two years was our 5K in Omaha in May, so she didn’t care about her time.  We came in separate cars, since she preferred a prerace nap to a shakeout run and strides, or to waiting around while I did them.

                             

                            This has a different feel from the races organized by our running club.  School has just started, and about 150 high school cross country runners participate.  For many it’s their first race, and even the others, well, they’re teenagers too, so there’s lots of excitement & energy. The race also seems to attract a lot of gymgoers who exercise but don’t run much and make it their one race of the year.  It has a band, cheerleaders from the local university, and a hot air balloon.  In addition to the usual bananas, orange slices, and water, finishers can get one of the restaurant’s barbecued pork sandwiches and some insanely sweet sweet tea.  (Caffeine and sugar at 1am after a race that’s already left me too tired to sleep?  Great idea...)  Some of the neighbors along the course get into the spirit by having sprinklers water half the street so the racers who want to cool off can.

                             

                            The temperature was 77/25, which is about my ideal for a 5K, especially when there’s no sun.  84% humidity meant the dewpoint was 72 (and TDP 149), but other than making me sweat a lot, that didn’t seem to have much effect.  We started in a shopping area near the restaurant, but after less than a block we entered the residential neighborhood where I grew up.  

                             

                            With all the teenagers sprinting off the line and the road being fairly narrow, I spent the first couple of minutes concentrating on avoiding danger while keeping a steady pace, maybe a bit slow for a 5K.  I was also concerned about my hamstrings, but other than one or two twinges early on, they weren’t bad.  After about a dozen steps, someone hit my back foot from behind, but luckily the hit just pushed it in the direction it was going anyway, so I didn’t lose my balance.  After we entered the residential area, we turned left for a 50-yard stretch that didn’t have any lights, and I couldn’t see the pavement my feet were hitting.  Was glad I had driven the course before and knew there was a low spot in one place but that everywhere else was fine.  By then, many of the sprinters had started to slow and I had to decide how to get around them.  I was bumped once, but it didn’t throw me off balance, and after we turned right off the dark stretch I was able to settle into a rhythm and gradually pass people.  

                             

                            There were police at almost every intersection, & their headlights and blue lights helped give some lighting along with the occasional streetlights.  There were dark areas, though.  Plastic water bottles every 50 yards or so on both sides of the course reflected the lights and were a cheap way to help keep people on the road and out of the gutters.

                             

                            I was a little surprised to only catch up to a friend in my age group around a mile in (there were no markers), because he’s usually a minute or two slower than me.  The number of people I was passing reassured me that my pace wasn’t too bad, though.  We turned left and headed up a gradual 400-meter-long hill on which I eased past several more people.  Partway through that, I noticed blobby things arcing out of the darkness and landing in front of me and realized someone was throwing water balloons at us.  Saw several of them, but none of them hit me or got me wet.  Didn’t bother me much, but some people yelled.  DW didn’t see any when she got to that point about 7 minutes later, so the thrower must have run out or been chased away.

                             

                            We turned right and went a couple of blocks, then right again and went down the same hill we had gone up earlier a few blocks over.  The decline was shorter and steeper, and it was more jarring than most downhills because I couldn’t see exactly where to put my feet.  Was glad nobody was too close to me, and I never really lost my balance.  After the downhill, we turned right and started heading back in the direction we had come.  I kept gradually easing past people, though it felt more like they were coming back to me than like I was passing them.  My pace felt ok but not quite as hard as 5K pace should.  For the last mile or so I was chasing the same few people, and I wound up passing a couple of them.

                                

                            I finished in 19:58, 29th/747, 1st M55-59.  DW finished in 37:30 and would’ve been fourth in her age group if the race had officially started at midnight rather than 11:59pm, as Sunday was a 5-year birthday for her (not going to say which one).  If she actually trained at all she could get an age-group prize next year, but I don’t think she wants to.

                             

                            I was pleased with the result considering that my hamstring troubles have prevented me from doing speedwork and I’ve only done a few short tempos.  It was about 10 seconds slower than last year’s August rustbuster, but between the different course, different weather, and midnight start time, comparing the two races is difficult.  I was also pleased that my hamstrings didn’t hurt much during the race or afterwards.  I wasn’t nearly as wiped out as I was after my 19:15 in last year’s October goal race, so I assume I can bring this time down. 19:30 seems like a reasonable goal for that race this year. 

                             

                            Sun - 7 miles in park @ 8:14, temp 87/31, TDP 158

                            Mon - 5.2 miles very slow treadmill (60 minutes) + 0:40 walk breaks/6 mins

                            Tues - 46 minutes swimming

                            Weds - 4.55 in park incl 4x200(approx) avg ~44 sec

                            Thurs - 3.1 very sluggish in park

                            Fri - off

                            Sat (and early Sun) - 7.1 including 5K @ 19:58

                             

                            Total - 26.9 Miles

                             

                            YTD Average - 35.3 mpw



                            Post-1987 PRs:  Half 1:30:14 (2019); 10K 39:35 (2019); 5K 19:12 (2017); Mile 5:37.3 (2020)

                            '22 Goals: health; consistency; Half<1:30; a PR or AG 80% (done, 82.16% AG 19:19 5K Oct. 1)

                            Marky_Mark_17


                               

                              I doubt the NZ Masters 35-49 will be that tactical.  I think everyone will just run as fast as they can.  To add to it, the race is open to any M35-49 who is registered with Athletics NZ who pays $20, so there'll be people being lapped given the course is over 8 laps.

                               

                               

                              If it is a calm, clear day, probably everyone will just be gunning for quick times as the course does look quite fast.  If the weather is bad it will definitely get tactical though.  No person or team is going to want to take the upwind section for 8 laps.

                               

                              Steve - not sure. There was in 2019, and there was one for National XC champs earlier this year but Athletics NZ are a bit inconsistent on these things.  I'll post it if there is one.

                               

                              James- sponsored by a barbecue restaurant?!  That sounds like a winner!  Sounds like a lot of fun and good effort in the conditions.

                              3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)  

                              10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)

                              * Net downhill course

                              Last race: National 10km Road Champs, 4 Sept, 34:13

                              Up next: Nelson Half Marathon, 6 Nov

                              "CONSISTENCY IS KING"

                              watsonc123


                                Nice work bringing the weather into it.

                                 

                                Long term forecast for Upper Hutt, Sunday is high of 14 C with light northwesters.

                                 

                                The big difficulty of trying to be tactical is you will need to make a ton of assumptions as to how people are running on the day.  Plus 90s spread is quite a lot compared to what's possible at the elite level on the track which has generally a much lower spread.

                                - can you create Tasks and size them?


                                Mark - I won't be able to watch Hash or you race sorry, due to girls football commitments.  I might watch the 2pm open race.  When do you arrive and when do you leave?  Ideally Hash, you and I could meet-up?

                                Hash - see above.

                                PRs: 5km 18:43 (Dec 2015), 10km 39:59 (Sep 2020), half 1:26:16 (Sep 2016), full 3:09:28 (Jun 2015)

                                 

                                40+ PRs: 5km 19:31 (Oct 2020), 10km 39:59 (Sep 2020), half 1:29:39 (Jun 2018), full 3:13:55 (Sep 2022)