The Waltons aka Advanced Half Marathon Training Thread - 2022 edition (Read 391 times)

zebano


     

    I had a good workout this morning.  The plan was 4 x 1½ miles (well, 6 laps) @8:10 pace, or 12:12 per interval, with 800m recoveries.  I ran them in 12:11, :12, :13, and :09.  11 miles for the day.  I'm still coughing at bit.  In addition to the better (i.e. cooler) weather, using my inhaler before the run probably helped a good deal (usually, I only need it after hard runs in cold weather).  It felt really good to get that workout done, though; does a lot to dispel doubts.

     

    Fred I hope you get healthy soon. Those are some impressive splits. Nice and consistent. Is the next race flat or hilly?

     

    FWIW I don't consider stressing about the weather useful but we all have our own methods of dealing with the taper and anxiety race excitement.

     

    I'm strongly considering signing up for a race on the 8th. They have both a 5k and 10k option and I'm sure I've lost a ton of fitness but I'm itching to race so I may just temper expectations and get out there and hurt.

    1600 - 5:23 (2018), 5k - 19:33 (2018), 10k - 41:20 (2021), half - 1:38:57 (2018), Marathon - 3:37:17 (2018)

    Fredford66


    Running Musician

       

      Fred I hope you get healthy soon. Those are some impressive splits. Nice and consistent. Is the next race flat or hilly?

       

      FWIW I don't consider stressing about the weather useful but we all have our own methods of dealing with the taper and anxiety race excitement.

       

      I'm strongly considering signing up for a race on the 8th. They have both a 5k and 10k option and I'm sure I've lost a ton of fitness but I'm itching to race so I may just temper expectations and get out there and hurt.

       

      Flat.  Really flat.  The only "hills" will be the ramps to get on/off the boardwalk, which will be about a 10-foot climb at most, though some are on the steep side.  Sometimes, really flat can present it's own challenges as there's nothing to give any variation in my stride, as going up and down hills does.  The big wild card will be whether there's any wind blowing in from the ocean or along the coast.

       

      I know there's nothing I can do about the weather, but it keeps my mind occupied.  It's better than thinking "Hm, is that slight pain in my foot something new?"  Just a coping method, as you say.

       

      Good luck with whichever race you pick.  There's something to be said for the excitement of being in a race and around other runners, even if you don't run as fast as you might like.

      5k 23:48.45 (3/22); 4M 31:26 (2/22); 5M 39:24 (11/21); 10k 50:32 (10/21); Half 1:50:46 (4/22)

      Upcoming race(s): Crest Best Half Marathon, 10/9
      CommanderKeen


      Aspiring Hobby Jogger

        Fred - If my sleep gets interrupted I typically just roll with it and get up whenever I originally planned. If it's particularly bad I'll sleep in some and cut miles, but thankfully that hasn't happened much.


        Good call on "flat" having it's own challenges.

        Something that has stuck with me for years is a group of locals who ran Chicago while training with the local running club. The club runs target the Route 66 marathon at the end of November, which is quite hilly, and so there are plenty of hilly LR routes.
        Without exception, every person in this group were absolutely destroyed by the flatness and not being used to using their muscles in the same way for so long, and they all wished they had done (at a minimum) all their LRs around a local lake that's dead flat in order to prepare for it.

        5k: 18:05 8/22 │ 10k: 37:55 9/21 │ HM: 1:23:22 4/22 │ M: 3:04:13 11/18

         

        Upcoming Races:

         

        Wurst Race Half - 10/8

        Toyota Music Factory Half - 11/13

        CIM - 12/4

        watsonc123


          Rotorua Marathon RR Sep 2022

           

          3:13:57 Gun / 3:13:55 Mat

           

          42nd of out ~480

           

          https://www.strava.com/activities/7819508037

           

          Shoes: Adios Pro 2

           

          km's are my GPS (42.51km) rather than official unless stated..

           

          This is by NZ's standards, a big marathon often having around 750 people racing. There's also a half which is a moderately hilly mainly on trails, which I raced 2020. Plus a 10km (road) and a 5.5km (unsure).

           

          It's normally April or May, but due to early 2022 Covid restrictions, it got delayed.

           

          Rotorua is a town / small city at the south end of Lake Rotorua. The race is pretty much round around the lake clockwise, starting and finishing in the car park at the events centre.

           

          This was easily the least volume I'd done for a marathon cycle, but with the highest quality. I'd picked up an injury late April, so from June I'd started my prep.

           

          Most weeks were 60-70km with quite a bit of quality and hills. There were a few very long trail runs which were probably worth an extra 5km in terms of training. There'd be been a few smaller weeks due to slightly sick and a taper/recovery for a goal 5km.

           

          Excluding the last taper week, it was 14 weeks training averaging just 56.7km / 35.2 miles. With two 32.x km / 20 mile runs with quality.

          My previous cycles would have been averaging ~ 96km / 60 miles, and ~88km / 55 miles. So, much lower this time. With upside being a lot of MLR with quality, and a few quality long runs.

           

          So a real chance of a big blow up in this race if things go bad.

           

          My wife and I flew up Thursday evening for the Saturday race.

           

          Friday was a day to kill, which we did through a tiny amount of shopping, race pick up and thermal pools. I managed to keep my steps to 8,000 which was good enough. In 2020 we ended up walking far too much the day before.

           

          Race pick up is at the events centre. We got there and went through, and I noticed I was on one of the posters, from my 2020 half, although I'm blurred as I'm behind the woman that the photo is focused on (see Strava for my photo).

           

          I got my pack fairly quickly. Although it took my wife a little longer as she'd registered for the marathon, but injured herself a month out, so she got herself downgraded to the half.

           

          The race has personal drink stations, which I've never used previously. I needed to drop that off, which took a while to find. I hadn't marked my drink bottle by mistake, so I was hoping the guy would have a felt pen I could use. He didn't so he sent me off to find Jo from Athletics NZ (the event is officially the NZ Masters Marathon Champs). I found her pretty quickly as she was selling off previous years merchandise. She was busy so she phoned someone else from NZ Athletics. About 5 minutes later, someone else turned up, but he caught up with someone and chatted with that person for ages. Eventually he came and took over so Jo could get my pen. That someone else was Pete Pfitziner who is currently President of NZ Athletics.

           

          So I went back to the drinks drop off, marked up my bottle, and put in the 19.5km pick up slot.

           

          I hadn't slept that great first night staying, but the race night was pretty good.

           

          We got up at 6am and had breakfast. And at 7:20am got a taxi near the start line. It was a very short trip, but worth saving the legs 10 minutes walking.

          I waited until about 18 minutes before the 8am start to do my brief warm up (no running, just light dynamic), took my first caffeine pill (100 mg) and got to the start line 10 minutes before.

           

          I sat down just behind the 3 hours sign for the start. Oddly everyone was way back, so I was weirdly at the front.

           

          More people joined soon after. I talked to a runner from another club in my area who was aiming for 3:0x, who had a PR of 3:4x when he didn't run much, so it was going to be PR day for him.

           

          My 'A" aim was 3:06 with a 'B' aim of 3:15. The few days leading up, I realized I hadn't got my taper right, the MLR workout 7 days earlier was too close, so I wasn't 100% fresh. In saying that, I don't think I was way off.

           

          Race plan for the 'A' goal was 45 to 46 minutes for the first 10km, and then look for 44 minutes per 10km onward (roughly). The 'B' was just to hold that 45 to 46 minutes per 10km pace.

           

          We start. "Don't go too fast, don't go too fast, don't go too fast" I said to myself very early on as quite a few overtook me.

           

          Very early on we turn right, run a minute or so then turn around and come back down the road, and then turn right again. Adding circa 500m to make up the distance.

           

          Some time around then I group up with the 3:15 pacer group.

           

          We're heading north-west with the group. I overtook a few people who had overtaken me at the start, going too fast.

           

          The first 5km was pretty much 4:3x per km. At this point, I start thinking that 'A' is not going to happen today, so don't do anything stupid.

          We keep making good progress. Although the 8km mark was about 8.2km on my watch, similar thing happened on the next markers too. so I'm a little concerned I could end up running 43.2km on my watch...

           

          I'd ran two marathons previously, 2015 in 3:09 where I'd started way too fast (1:30/1:39 split), and one in 2016 in 3:16 where I thought I had it right but still went 1:35/1:41. Both races I had come in with a cold, plus had not fueled at all well (2016 I couldn't ingest my gels).

           

          So this time, I had the plan of:
          - Caffeine 100mg before start
          - Non-caffeine gel 25 minutes
          - Caffeine gel 50 minutes
          - Caffeine gel 75 minutes
          - Drink bottle at 19.5km (~90 minutes) plus consumer my second caffeine 100mg pill
          - Caffeine gel 100 minutes
          - Non-caffeine gel 125 minutes
          - Non-caffeine gel 150 minutes

           

          Up to and including the 75 minute mark above, it went to plan.

           

          The first 12km is false flats, with an overall slight rise. The 13th km ends up slightly downhill, being the first noticeable drop.

           

          The 14th km and 15th km have a very small hill, but significant to be noticeable. I'm feeling pretty good.

           

          The 3:15 pack is maybe 10 of us plus the two pacers.

           

          So far the pacers have been very good, one guy at the front giving good instructions as to when drink stations are coming. And the other at the back.

           

          Our pace is pretty good. If anything we might be a tad quick, which is fine with me.

           

          We get to the 19.5km mark, which is where my personal drink bottle is. A few minutes before I'd taken out my second caffeine pill and tried putting in my mouth, but had a bit of a gag reflex.

           

          I find my bottle fairly quickly and am off. I then manage to get my caffeine pill down.

           

          We then hit a good hill. Which is up, a little drop, up, then down.

           

          I'm dropping off the pack...

           

          I'm also struggling to drink from the bottle, so after drinking a small amount I ditch it.

           

          This section of the course has the road closed which means we don't have to consider cars which is nice.

           

          I'm about 100m behind the pack now at the first top...

           

          In hindsight I think it was 50m but at the time it felt like 100m.

           

          I catch a little on the first down hill. Then up, and I fade back a little.  The next downhill is about 1km with 50m drop. I'm now catching, hopefully I'll catch as loosing the pack at halfway won't be great.  By the bottom of the hill I'd caught up. Phew.

           

          Soon after we get to the north-east point of the lake and back to roads with traffic.

           

          We pass one runner around there who is really slowing.

           

          We then have the last proper hill. Again I fade up hill, but catch-up downhill. We pass another fader around there.

           

          The pack has decreased. There's maybe six non-pacers left. Although I'm not sure as not once in the race did I look backwards.

          I take my fourth gel somewhere around there which my stomach struggles with. From that point I cannot stomach anything more. All drink stations are now water over the head, whereas before it was drinking the carb drinks.

           

          Around this time, the sun comes out and is just a tad warm. It had been cloudy before then with light winds, so pretty much ideal.

           

          At the 34km marker, it's the first time I must really be feeling it, as the thought "you could walk for a little while" came into my head.

           

          Around the 35th km there a significant false flat or a hill depending on glass full or empty. I'd heard of people falling apart on it. The lead pacer had earlier ensured me it was a very mild false flat, but I thought he might be lying to keep me confident.

           

          We hit the false flat and the pack goes up it well, again passing one or two faders. I do 4:43 for that false flat which at this stage in a marathon, is very good for me.

           

          We then have two km down the false flat. My pace seems good, although in hindsight I must have been fading as these were false flats down.

           

          The pack is breaking now, a few have speed up, a few of us (incl. me) fading a little, and a few fading more. The back pacer I think turns into a "let's get you close to 3:15", and the front pacer becomes a "let's get you well under 3:15". The front pacer does a little bit of running around plus waiting near the end to help people finish.

           

          39th km is in 4:44. I'm struggling now and sometimes scuffing the ground, so my form has gone.

           

          A little while earlier I had been thinking 3:12 and change based off my times and the markers (my watch is about 300m "long"). Now I'm thinking 3:13 and change.

           

          The next two kms are 4:48 and 4:42. OK, just hold and don't fade more. The front pacer keeps telling me to work harder to get sub 3:15. He was just a little annoying at that point (although overall excellent, so all is forgiven).

           

          I overtake a few more faders around there incl. one guy who had literally stopped.

           

          42nd km in 4:55. I don't know exactly how long to go, but now it's get 3:14 and change

           

          I turn right for the final straight. By NZ's standards it's a really good finish as there's lots of people.

           

          I keep running as solidly as I can. I'm maybe 100m from the finish when I realize I might still get 3:13 and change. I (sort of) kick, overtake someone just at the finish, and stop my watch at 3:14:00.  Official results show I did get 3:13:57 / 3:13:15 Gun / Mat.

           

          There's a couple of seats at the end which I sit down in for a minute. I shake the hand of the lead pacers plus the people who'd just finished (members of my pack). And then head to get my gear.

           

          I get my shoes and socks off. Socks are saturated with. Later on I notice my shoes are scuffed on the foam at the back which would have happened when my form fell apart. I'm feeling confident that it's superficial.

           

          I found the shoes excellent.

           

          We then walk back to our hotel, very slowly and very gently as I am rather sore. Especially my hips.

           

          The cycle went pretty, ideally it would have been a little longer as the calf injury in May put me a little behind.

           

          I'm definitely on the moderate volume with quality group now. A little more volume would have been good, but not much. I naturally have good endurance but not pace, so quicker work is a must for me. The other massive advantage was that the winter just been had been torrential rain often, so having less time outside was a bonus.

           

          The fueling went well enough, and was much better planned than previously. The shoes were also excellent which probably helped reduce the fade.

           

          It's been five years between marathons, but I'm hoping for one in 2023. Although there's only four NZ races with big enough fields to be worth doing (and one, Queenstown is slow), so that's three races next year I could go for. At this stage I'm thinking Christchurch in April. But that's all TBC.

          PRs: 5km 18:43 (Dec 2015), 10km 39:59 (Sep 2020), half 1:26:16 (Sep 2016), full 3:09:28 (Jun 2015)

           

          40+ PRs: 5km 19:31 (Oct 2020), 10km 39:59 (Sep 2020), half 1:29:39 (Jun 2018), full 3:13:55 (Sep 2022)

          Marky_Mark_17


            Fred - good to hear things are on the improve.

             

            Watson - excellent RR and well done again.  Sounds like you definitely hit that marathon pain cave at around km34 but well done knuckling down and keeping strong through that.  You got a bit slower on the splits but it doesn't look like it ever really fell apart at all, so that is excellent work on what is certainly one of the tougher marathon courses in NZ.

             

            Me - cautiously optimistic that I'll be back to normal training next week.  It's been up and down for sure but I've been going for 5k jogs on alternate days just to see where things are at, and today felt noticeably better.  I actually wanted to speed up for the first time in ages (but didn't).

             

            The good news is that I still have a good 6 weeks until Nelson HM, and despite a rough last 2-3 weeks I've still got a lot of solid training behind me this year, so I should still be able to have a decent crack at it (assuming I do actually get back in action next week!!).

             

            Anyways the big drama in NZ running circles right now is that NZ Road Relays (scheduled for next weekend) has had to switch to an alternate course as NZTA (who own all state highways and major roads) wouldn't give NZ Athletics approval for their traffic management plan to run the legendary Takahe to Akaroa course (which involves some major roads and state highways).  Honestly this was a bit of a shocker by NZTA in light of the fact the event has been running for 85-odd years (including last year) and more broadly it has me a bit concerned that NZTA are now going to make it much harder for on-road events to be run by significantly increasing the amount of traffic management required... that would probably mean only the biggest events can go ahead and would make life tough for a lot of smaller and mid-size events.  Frankly it's the LAST thing these events need after two very tough years due to lockdowns.

            3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)  

            10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)

            * Net downhill course

            Last race: National 10km Road Champs, 4 Sept, 34:13

            Up next: Nelson Half Marathon, 6 Nov

            "CONSISTENCY IS KING"

            Fredford66


            Running Musician

               

              Anyways the big drama in NZ running circles right now is that NZ Road Relays (scheduled for next weekend) has had to switch to an alternate course as NZTA (who own all state highways and major roads) wouldn't give NZ Athletics approval for their traffic management plan to run the legendary Takahe to Akaroa course (which involves some major roads and state highways).  Honestly this was a bit of a shocker by NZTA in light of the fact the event has been running for 85-odd years (including last year) and more broadly it has me a bit concerned that NZTA are now going to make it much harder for on-road events to be run by significantly increasing the amount of traffic management required... that would probably mean only the biggest events can go ahead and would make life tough for a lot of smaller and mid-size events.  Frankly it's the LAST thing these events need after two very tough years due to lockdowns.

               

              This is so foreign to me:  needing highways and major roads to hold races.  But then I realized New Jersey has 80% more people than New Zealand in less than 10% of the land area, which means we have a web of local roads the like of which probably doesn't exist in NZ, allowing us to hold races without needing major roads or highways.  Just goes to show how different things are.

               

              (Side note: three different sites gave me three different figures for NJ's square mileage.  Including/excluding bodies of water?  Before/after sea level rise?  Who knows?)

              5k 23:48.45 (3/22); 4M 31:26 (2/22); 5M 39:24 (11/21); 10k 50:32 (10/21); Half 1:50:46 (4/22)

              Upcoming race(s): Crest Best Half Marathon, 10/9
              Fredford66


              Running Musician

                Watson - Very detailed race report, thanks.  The idea of running around a lake sounds great.  Sorry it didn't go quite as planned, but it seems you were definitely able to hold it together and fight through.  Well done.

                5k 23:48.45 (3/22); 4M 31:26 (2/22); 5M 39:24 (11/21); 10k 50:32 (10/21); Half 1:50:46 (4/22)

                Upcoming race(s): Crest Best Half Marathon, 10/9
                watsonc123


                  Fred - I did better than my 'B' goal, so I'm quite please.

                   

                  Mark - the slow down was fairly mild.  It was only at the 38km mark that I was obviously slowing.  So a lot better than the guys we passed at roughly 25km, he must have had a massive positive split, as we went past him quick.

                   

                  Hopefully the NZTA changes don't effect smaller races are non-major roads aren't affected.

                  PRs: 5km 18:43 (Dec 2015), 10km 39:59 (Sep 2020), half 1:26:16 (Sep 2016), full 3:09:28 (Jun 2015)

                   

                  40+ PRs: 5km 19:31 (Oct 2020), 10km 39:59 (Sep 2020), half 1:29:39 (Jun 2018), full 3:13:55 (Sep 2022)

                  Fredford66


                  Running Musician

                    Fred - I did better than my 'B' goal, so I'm quite please.

                     

                    Cool!

                    5k 23:48.45 (3/22); 4M 31:26 (2/22); 5M 39:24 (11/21); 10k 50:32 (10/21); Half 1:50:46 (4/22)

                    Upcoming race(s): Crest Best Half Marathon, 10/9
                    SteveChCh


                    Hot Weather Complainer

                      Mark - I saw that change for NZ road relays.  I'll bite my tongue about the state of govt departments at the moment...but it really isn't a surprise.  As you say, 80 odd years and now they can't meet the requirements?  Crazy.

                       

                      watson - Enjoyed the race report.  Interesting that your mind considered that the pacer was lying to try and make it psychologically easier.  You did quite a good time up it, so would you say he was being honest?  Where do you find caffeine pills?  It's probably too late for me to try now though.  Apart from that, our nutrition plan is exactly the same.  I also noted you had a very short taxi ride rather than a walk to save your legs.  I'll have about a 20 minute walk to the start, or 40 minutes if I decide to use the bag drop.  I figured that would be enough of a warm up for me if I include some light jogs.

                       

                      To get that result on low volume on a hard course really makes me think you could go sub 3 if you're able to increase the volume.  I hear you on the wet winter though, it was a grind for me in the wettest winter ever down here, although that probably still makes it less than average by Wellington standards.

                       

                      Christchurch in April would be a good contender for a PR, coming off summer training on hopefully a nice cool autumn morning.

                      Net Downhill PB Southern Lakes Half Marathon 2022 1:27:32, Flat Course PB Christchurch 2016 1:29.25

                      Recent Races:   Southern Lakes Half Marathon 1:27:32 May 7, 2022, Motorway 10km 40:49 February 27, 2022, Selwyn Running Festival Half-Marathon 1:29:32  November 7, 2021

                      Race plan:  Melbourne Marathon October 2, 2022.  Queenstown Half Marathon November 19, 2022

                      watsonc123


                        Steve - Sub 3 would be a dream.  I honestly think I'm best on perhaps 10 miles /16km more per week than what I managed, but not much more than that as I get tired and cannot get quick workouts done.  Yeah, Wellington had the wettest winter on record, and most winters it's quite wet.  Caffeine pills can be purchased from most pharmacies, I got mine from Chemist Warehouse, No Doz brand.  You have enough time to try them.  Note the research indicates something like* 60-70% people benefit from caffeine, 10-20% people do worse, and the rest neutral.  Chch is just an idea at this point, work might get in the way.  Rotorua in May is also an option.

                         

                        *very much top of my head percentages.

                        PRs: 5km 18:43 (Dec 2015), 10km 39:59 (Sep 2020), half 1:26:16 (Sep 2016), full 3:09:28 (Jun 2015)

                         

                        40+ PRs: 5km 19:31 (Oct 2020), 10km 39:59 (Sep 2020), half 1:29:39 (Jun 2018), full 3:13:55 (Sep 2022)

                        Fredford66


                        Running Musician

                          Here's my body waking up during an early-morning 5-mile easy run the day after a track workout:

                           

                          Mile 1 - 11:00

                          Mile 2 - 10:51

                          Mile 3 - 10:50

                          Mile 4 - 10:25

                          Mile 5 - 9:48

                           

                          The good news is I got home before the thunderstorm hit.

                          5k 23:48.45 (3/22); 4M 31:26 (2/22); 5M 39:24 (11/21); 10k 50:32 (10/21); Half 1:50:46 (4/22)

                          Upcoming race(s): Crest Best Half Marathon, 10/9
                          zebano


                            Watson - Great work. I had no idea you were marathon training, I feel bad for not paying attention to your posts. Your really held nice consistent splits for the first 23 miles and then barely faded. Amazing work, especially on such low volume. I'm the opposite of you I feel like I need miles because my natural endurance is terrible but my body won't let me get that, but I retain some speed regardless (relative to the non-elite runners like Mark). Do you think you'll keep this training pattern in the future given how well it worked or is the sub-3 so tantalizingly close that you're going to go all-in?

                            1600 - 5:23 (2018), 5k - 19:33 (2018), 10k - 41:20 (2021), half - 1:38:57 (2018), Marathon - 3:37:17 (2018)

                            JamesD


                            JamesD

                              Watson - Enjoyed the RR, and congratulations again.  You had 200 mg of caffeine in pills plus three caffeinated gels, so 350 to 650 mg in total depending on whether each gel had 50 or 150 mg.  Either way, that seems like a lot.  I usually take 150 mg in a gel before my races (~2.5 mg per kilo of weight), though I've never run anything longer than a half.  Wondering if I should up the amount the next time I run a half.  Have you settled on that amount through trial & error, or are you following a formula based on your weight and/or distance?

                              Post-1987 PRs:  Half 1:30:14 (2019); 10K 39:35 (2019); 5K 19:12 (2017); Mile 5:37.3 (2020)

                              '22 Goals: health; consistency; Half<1:30; a PR or AG 80% (done, 82.16% AG 19:19 5K Oct. 1)

                              watsonc123


                                James - the gels had 40 mg of caffeine.  So 320mg I had in total.  Which is about 4.7 mg / kg of body weight, but spread over ~2 hours so I would have never had 320 mg at any point.  Half life is about 5 hours so I probably peaked ~275 mg in me which would be about 4 mg / kg of body weight.

                                 

                                Research indicates around 3-6 mg range per kg of body weight.  So I think I was fine.

                                PRs: 5km 18:43 (Dec 2015), 10km 39:59 (Sep 2020), half 1:26:16 (Sep 2016), full 3:09:28 (Jun 2015)

                                 

                                40+ PRs: 5km 19:31 (Oct 2020), 10km 39:59 (Sep 2020), half 1:29:39 (Jun 2018), full 3:13:55 (Sep 2022)