The Waltons aka Advanced Half Marathon Training Thread - 2022 edition (Read 443 times)


Glute Force

    James, Mark, Steve, need2tri - thank you very much.

     

     

    I looked it up and today was 5:28 faster than my best last fall.  I've been doing pretty well with the Hansons plan, but also having a running partner has helped a lot because without even saying anything he helps keep me accountable to my schedule and pacing.  I think, too, after 7 years since I ran my first half, I've learned a lot about my body, my training, and race strategy.

     

    Congratulations Fred, great result, this sounds like a great race execution overall!

     

    ScottC did you see CJ Albertson 50k world record - he ran it on my course around Lake Merced, SF / near Daly City. At first, when I saw Taggart VanEtten's post about it, I thought it was a joke. It looked exactly like the 5 mile loop I am so familiar with. It's a pretty hard course to run a 50k record, since its up hill / down hill but gradual, it's not at all flat. I am surprised and gave him a follow on Strava, I will have to work hard to take down some of his segments, but I won't surrender.

    Fredford66


    Running Musician

      RP, Zebano, Hash, Mick - Thanks very much.  It was a rewarding day.

      5k 23:48.45 (3/22); 4M 31:26 (2/22); 5M 38:57 (11/22); 10k 49:24 (10/22); Half 1:48:32 (10/22)

      Upcoming race(s): Winter Series #5 Trail 10k, 2/4; E. Murray Todd Half, 3/12
      Fredford66


      Running Musician

        If you're in the mood for a long read, here's my race report.

         

        Crest Best Run Fest Half Marathon – 10/9/22

         

        This race goes through three towns, Wildwood Crest, Wildwood, and North Wildwood, on a barrier island on the southeastern coast of New Jersey.  The area is known for its 2½ mile long elevated boardwalk.  The island is pretty flat so the only “hills” are the ramps for getting on and off the boardwalk.  My preparation for the race had been pretty solid and though I caught a cold in late August that stuck me with a lingering cough, I still managed 200 miles of training in September.  My training cycle had been based on the goal of running a half in less than 1:50:00.  My best time up to then had been 1:50:46.

         

        We drove down the night before (my son would run the 10k and my wife came along for support).  I had stopped taking the decongestants because they dehydrate me, but stuck with the asthma medicine to help my breathing.  My confidence the night before was a bit shaky and though the forecast said wind would be light, it was blowing rather hard down by the ocean, which is not unusual.

         

        I got up early to eat a bagel and an energy bar, and slowly got ready.  About 15 minutes before we left, the little strap that the excess of my watch’s wristband tucks into broke, so I used a safety pin to hold it in place.  We got to the start/finish area, which was very well organized, and I saw the flag that was attached to the extended ladder of a fire truck was hanging limply in the light breeze.  I went for a 1-mile warmup run, did a brief warmup routine with my son, and saw him off on the 10k (they started 15 minutes before the half & 10-miler) then got in the port-o-potty line.  As I reached for my belt to get a gel, the handle of the zipper on the pocket broke, but I was still able to get the gel out.  With the watch band issue and then the zipper, I wondered if there was an ill omen at work.

         

        Miles 1-3 – 8:16, 8:15, 8:20

        My target pace for the race was 8:20.  The weather was sunny and in the low 50’s.  I was in shorts and a tank top, but with gloves on as the warmup run had shown me it was cold enough to make my hands uncomfortable.  As usual for a race, I started out too fast and after about 100 yards was at a 7:40 pace, so I eased off, but I was still going faster than target.  After less than half a mile, we went up the ramp onto the boardwalk heading north.  For a while I switched back and forth between the wooden surface and the narrow concrete path where the trams run in summer, eventually settling on the concrete as the better path.  We had to detour onto the streets when a section of the boardwalk was under construction and it was here I saw my son on his return leg of the 10k.  The first few miles of a half are usually easy enough for me and I got to the turnaround just past the northern end of the boardwalk in pretty good shape.

         

        Miles 4-6 – 8:16, 8:17, 8:22

        As the course turned around in a broad swing from a sidewalk to a street, I discovered one reason I’d felt so good on the run north is that the wind had picked up and what had been a crosswind/tailwind was now a crosswind/headwind.  Back onto the boardwalk and for a while the buildings blocked the wind, but as the course got to the southern end of the boardwalk, there was less shelter and I was feeling the wind.  I went through one of my usual feeling sorry for myself phases and posted my slowest mile of the first 10, but then I shook it off and got back to running.  As we neared the start/finish, I saw the flag that had been hanging limply at the start was now billowing actively in the wind.  We headed around a block and my wife and son were there to give me a spare water bottle and take my gloves and old water bottle (to avoid plastic waste, the race only has places where you can fill your own water bottle or cup, but doesn’t have cups of water set out on tables).

         

        Miles 7-9 – 8:16, 8:18, 8:13

        The second half of mile 7 was straight into the wind and, perversely, I sped up in my determination to fight the wind, hitting an 8:05 pace at one point before telling myself to settle down a bit as fighting the wind only ever results in one winner (not me).  The 8th mile went along the unsheltered western shore of the island with the wind coming in from about 45º to my front/right.  Up to now, the mile markers had been about right, but the mile 8 sign was 0.18 miles early by my watch.  Mile 9 gave a reprieve as we ran with the wind for a while before turning back to run across it.

         

        Miles 10-12 – 8:19, 8:23, 8:21

        I was starting to tire now and the wind was getting in my head.  In the past, the 10th mile of a half was often a mental barrier for me, so I was determined to push on this time.  We reached a turnaround (a dreaded cone in the middle of the road type) and suddenly there was the mile 10 marker when my watch read 9.70, and that started playing with my head too (the mile 9 sign had been about in the right place).  We ran with the wind behind us for a bit then made another turn south to another turn-around-a-cone before our final run north.  Mile 11, with the last run into the wind and the turnaround was my slowest so far, but I was encouraged that I was averaging about 8:17 and knew I was ahead of target.  Mile 12 should have been faster, given the wind was behind us, but I was tiring and struggling to maintain my form.

         

        Mile 13 and the finish – 8:26, 0:49 (8:11 pace)

        My legs were really tired by now and it was getting harder and harder for me to keep my pace below 8:30, never mind 8:20.  We passed the mile 9 sign for the 10-mile race and that was spot on at 12.1 miles for me (i.e. 1 mile before the finish), so I started feeling better about the race.  As we approached the finish, however, it was clear to me it would be short of 13.11 miles.  I was tired and made the perhaps questionable decision to keep running past the finish until I got to full distance so when the finish came up on my watch at 13.07 miles, I kept going.  My wife & son met me at the finish, but had to run off to the 10k awards ceremony since my son won his AG (1st of 1).

         

        Aftermath

        I succeeded in my goal of running a half marathon in less than 1:50, posting either 1:48:32 as per the race, or 1:48:51 per my watch running the extra distance.  Most of yesterday, I was quoting 1:48:51, but after a good night’s rest, I think I’ll take the 1:48:32.  The 13.07 is well within the GPS error rate and I’d been running the tangents aggressively.  As we headed for the hotel so I could shower off, the standings showed I was 3rd in of males 55-59.  By the time I washed off and got back to the race area, I was 2nd in my AG as the winner of my AG had been moved to the Masters podium.  It was a great day.  My son had set a 10k PR and won his AG (and been in the top 15% of his race) and I had met my goal of breaking 1:50 and gotten my first ever HM podium.  I’m very happy about how it went, which is probably why this race report is so long.

        5k 23:48.45 (3/22); 4M 31:26 (2/22); 5M 38:57 (11/22); 10k 49:24 (10/22); Half 1:48:32 (10/22)

        Upcoming race(s): Winter Series #5 Trail 10k, 2/4; E. Murray Todd Half, 3/12
        CommanderKeen


        Cobra Commander Keen

          Trying to get caught up again after some combined days off work and sickness, my apologies to anyone I miss - some of this was a draft I had in notepad since last week.

           

          Cal - Congratulations. Seriously. Your pacing and ability to run multiple marathons like this is insane.


          Steve - Congrats on the first marathon, though I'm bummed for you that it didn't come out the way any of us wanted for you. It should be a valuable learning experience, though, should you choose to have another go at it.


          Caitlin - I'm glad you're feeling mostly back to normal.


          Fred - Congrats on the new HM PR and AG placing!!!


          Zebano - Very nice return to full volume.

           

           

          I had an unintentional cutback week owing to coming down with a stomach bug very early Thursday morning. I still wasn't feeling great for the start of my race, but oddly enough around mile 9 those stomach issues went away and I felt absolutely invincible after that, practically floating up hills that I've had issues with every other year - even with a (per Runalyze, GPS-based) 18:33 final 5k for a course PR.

          The guy that won the race (1:23: something) was SUPER impressive. 55 years old, looks like he might be 40, and absolutely jacked musculature.

          Back to the grind now, with what my coach has described as "big miles" for the next 4-5 weeks.

           

          Weekly for period: From: 10/03/2022 To 10/09/2022

          Date Name mi km Duration Avg/mi Avg/km Elevation Gain
          in ft
          10/03 1 rogue rooster 6.05 9.73 00:55:01 09:06 05:39 318
          10/03 1 armadillo 4.05 6.52 00:37:28 09:15 05:45 197
          10/04 Another successfully completed loop 10.01 16.10 01:25:55 08:35 05:20 443
          10/05 6x mile 16.25 26.15 02:08:42 07:55 04:55 440
          10/05 1 hawk & that same wayward rooster 4.25 6.84 00:37:32 08:50 05:29 194
          10/06 That time the minimum and the maximum were the same 1.05 1.69 00:09:57 09:29 05:53 33
          10/07 1 monarch butterfly 4.10 6.60 00:36:28 08:54 05:32 161
          10/08 Legs, 9/10 Stomach, 6/10 2.26 3.63 00:18:13 08:04 05:01 89
          10/08 Wurst Race Half 13.07 21.03 01:26:58 06:39 04:08 574
          10/08 Cool-down with DD2 2.10 3.38 00:21:17 10:08 06:18 121
          10/09 Go home, Rosie 6.01 9.66 00:54:15 09:02 05:37 282

          Total distance: 69.19mi

          5k: 17:58 11/22 │ 10k: 37:55 9/21 │ HM: 1:23:22 4/22 │ M: 2:56:05 12/22

           

          Upcoming Races:

           

          Heartland 50 - May 6

          zebano


            Keen was the Wurst Half mostly a training run ? those are some crazy negative splits and a 5:33 final mile ??? whoo-boy. Not to mention 18:33 for the final 5k as in 28 seconds off your 5k PR??? That's a good day regardless of if it's a full send or not.

             

             

             

            Fred heck of a race and great pacing. 8:20 was a great goal and you nailed it.

            1600 - 5:23 (2018), 5k - 19:33 (2018), 10k - 41:20 (2021), half - 1:38:57 (2018), Marathon - 3:37:17 (2018)

            watsonc123


              Mark, Zebano and James - nice weeks.

               

              Darkwave - I hope you post your result up here soon.  You raced really well, especially given your challenges this year, and your wonky GPS!

               

              Fred - nice race.

               

              Keen - your half was really nice.  I'm wondering what you could race if fully healthy?

              PRs: 5km 18:43 (Dec 2015), 10km 39:59 (Sep 2020), half 1:26:16 (Sep 2016), full 3:09:28 (Jun 2015)

               

              40+ PRs: 5km 19:31 (Oct 2020), 10km 39:59 (Sep 2020), half 1:29:39 (Jun 2018), full 3:13:55 (Sep 2022)

              SteveChCh


              Hot Weather Complainer

                Fred - Really nice race and great effort hanging on when things were getting tough towards the end.  Your race has 2 things that REALLY annoy me...fill your own bottle or cup.  Come on!  If you don't have someone there and need that drink, that is a joke.  A race here (Taupo) does the same thing.  In weather that cool for a half I'd probably not bother with a drink.  In Melbourne they had biodegradable cups which I think is what should be done at races that care about such things, and for some reason can't recycle the plastic.  And the second is the short course.  Just look at the impact it had on your race and mindset.

                 

                Keen - Cutback week that is still higher than my biggest ever week...hope you come right for this week.  That half is a thing of beauty.

                 

                I didn't post my race report in here but I forgot that some don't venture to the other thread.  It's on this page:

                 

                Race Report (halfway down the page)

                 

                I'm close to the 10 days that I think darkwave prescribes for not making any decisions.  I still haven't but have some idea of my plans.  When my legs started feeling good on Sunday I briefly considered going for the Christchurch full in April but last night everything was sluggish, including my brain, so I've gone back to my old plan of a 10km in February and the Christchurch half in April.  I don't think I want to wait until April 2024 to try again so I'm looking at a race in September 2023 which will make sleeping in my own bed tricky, but somewhere like Dunedin is most likely, despite the small field and quiet course.  I've also booked an appointment with a sports nutritionist for next week - my partner has wanted me to do this for a while.  It's not just about what happened on race day, but looking at everything and what changes I might be able to make to benefit training, and every day life.

                5km: 18:53 12/22 │ 10km: 40:49 2/22 │ HM: 1:27:32* 5/22 │ M: 3:35:02 10/22

                *Net Downhill.  Flat course PR:  1:29:25 6/16

                Upcoming Races:

                Motorway Half Marathon February 26, 2023, City to Surf 12km March 19, 2023, Christchurch Marathon April 16, 2023

                Marky_Mark_17


                   

                  Keen - Cutback week that is still higher than my biggest ever week...hope you come right for this week.  That half is a thing of beauty.

                   

                  I didn't post my race report in here but I forgot that some don't venture to the other thread.  It's on this page:

                   

                  Race Report (halfway down the page)

                   

                  I'm close to the 10 days that I think darkwave prescribes for not making any decisions.  I still haven't but have some idea of my plans.  When my legs started feeling good on Sunday I briefly considered going for the Christchurch full in April but last night everything was sluggish, including my brain, so I've gone back to my old plan of a 10km in February and the Christchurch half in April.  I don't think I want to wait until April 2024 to try again so I'm looking at a race in September 2023 which will make sleeping in my own bed tricky, but somewhere like Dunedin is most likely, despite the small field and quiet course.  I've also booked an appointment with a sports nutritionist for next week - my partner has wanted me to do this for a while.  It's not just about what happened on race day, but looking at everything and what changes I might be able to make to benefit training, and every day life.

                   

                  Right? I've run like 1 week bigger than that in the last two years.

                   

                  The sports nutritionist is well worth a look.  I didn't have to make a lot of changes and the ones I did make were pretty straightforward.

                  3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)  

                  10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)

                  * Net downhill course

                  Last race: Run the Point 10k, 27 Nov, 35:00, 1st overall

                  Up next: Clevedon Country Half Marathon, 5 Feb

                  "CONSISTENCY IS KING"

                  Fredford66


                  Running Musician

                    Fred - Really nice race and great effort hanging on when things were getting tough towards the end.  Your race has 2 things that REALLY annoy me...fill your own bottle or cup.  Come on!  If you don't have someone there and need that drink, that is a joke.  A race here (Taupo) does the same thing.  In weather that cool for a half I'd probably not bother with a drink.  In Melbourne they had biodegradable cups which I think is what should be done at races that care about such things, and for some reason can't recycle the plastic.  And the second is the short course.  Just look at the impact it had on your race and mindset.

                     

                     

                     

                    I completely agree on the fill your own bottle thing.  Who wants to come to a full stop and wait for water to pour out of a thermos jug into a cup or bottle?  I consider myself quite fortunate that 1) my son's water bottle is compatible with my belt and 2) my son and wife were willing to meet me at the halfway point and trade off empty/full bottles.

                    5k 23:48.45 (3/22); 4M 31:26 (2/22); 5M 38:57 (11/22); 10k 49:24 (10/22); Half 1:48:32 (10/22)

                    Upcoming race(s): Winter Series #5 Trail 10k, 2/4; E. Murray Todd Half, 3/12
                    CommanderKeen


                    Cobra Commander Keen

                      Zebano - That race is my favorite half, but was always meant to be a training run/trained through. Looking it up, that final 5k was about 9 seconds off my actual 5k PR from just shy of 1.5 years ago.


                      Watson - My coach has suggested doing HM work between 81-82 minute pace, but I don't have anything other than that to go from for what I think I could really do.


                      Steve - Thanks, and I enjoyed the RR. Even though the parts about the cramps made my legs squirm a bit. SO sorry you had that happen to you.

                      5k: 17:58 11/22 │ 10k: 37:55 9/21 │ HM: 1:23:22 4/22 │ M: 2:56:05 12/22

                       

                      Upcoming Races:

                       

                      Heartland 50 - May 6

                      watsonc123


                        Steve - I struggle to see why you cannot go for the full in Christchurch:

                        - It's the quickest full in NZ.

                        - There's enough people racing that you don't end up alone.  Chch 2021 had 478 (2022 as you know was cancelled).  So assuming Chch 2023 is the same, it's enough people.

                        - You live there, so no travel issues, accommodation costs etc.

                        - It's six months away, so you have TONS of time.  You could do a three month speed cycle, and then do a three month marathon cycle and you'll be fine.

                        - You only had a bad race.  The reality of people aiming for 2:45+ marathon's is that sometimes through bad luck they have bad blowouts.  Waiting longer than 6 months to go again, does not reduce that risk.

                        - The NZ spring marathons have small fields (which is not great) except Auckland and Queenstown.  Auckland has moderate hills and a real risk of warmth & humidity.  Queenstown is a slow course.

                        - Dunedin only had 165 full racers this year.  There was 21 between 3:10 and 3:29, so a real chance of running alone for significant periods.  The half had 631. Rotorua Full had 475 this year which was enough (normally it has more but the rescheduling must have impacted numbers).

                         

                        If I were you, and I wanted to Dunedin.  I'd do the Chch full, and the half at Dunedin.

                         

                        The only exception would be if your quad is not good by xmas, unless I've misread things, this shouldn't be an issue.

                         

                        Speaking of marathon's, I'm signed up for Hawkes Bay, 20 May 2023.

                        PRs: 5km 18:43 (Dec 2015), 10km 39:59 (Sep 2020), half 1:26:16 (Sep 2016), full 3:09:28 (Jun 2015)

                         

                        40+ PRs: 5km 19:31 (Oct 2020), 10km 39:59 (Sep 2020), half 1:29:39 (Jun 2018), full 3:13:55 (Sep 2022)

                        SteveChCh


                        Hot Weather Complainer

                          watson - interesting thoughts.  I'll see how I feel in a week or 2.  The main reason for not wanting to go again so soon is I can't imagine being mentally ready again.  It also depends on how I recover from 18 months of on again, off again marathon training.  Apart from that, I can't disagree with any of your points.  I'm still a little sore and niggly, but the places change every day and there's no injury.  I know it's not the same, but frustrating that I feel much more beaten up than I did after running the "easy" paced marathon last year, only one minute slower.  I think I was feeling fully recovered after 1 week.

                           

                          If I'm not mentally recovered, it will be asking for trouble.  But it's only been 9 days since the race and I'm feeling better every day, especially with some quality sleep and healthier lifestyle than last week.

                          5km: 18:53 12/22 │ 10km: 40:49 2/22 │ HM: 1:27:32* 5/22 │ M: 3:35:02 10/22

                          *Net Downhill.  Flat course PR:  1:29:25 6/16

                          Upcoming Races:

                          Motorway Half Marathon February 26, 2023, City to Surf 12km March 19, 2023, Christchurch Marathon April 16, 2023

                          Marky_Mark_17


                            Steve - I think Watson makes some pretty good points.  If you do decide to do another full, Christchurch is the best bet for all the reasons he mentioned - fast course, reasonable chance of good weather, decent size field, close to home.

                             

                            It is exactly two years to the day since my last full and I vividly remember the post-race hole I dug for myself by pushing it too soon after.  I didn't really resume training with any real consistency until around mid-December but I was in really good shape by March - there was one particular workout I hit in early April where I remember thinking "holy sh*t".  By the time I hit Southern Lakes at the start of May I was in good enough form to run the race of my life - and that was without doing anything nuts either, I think I had like one week over 100km in that entire build-up.

                             

                            You have a ton of time on your hands.  Take it easy for a bit longer, let the body recover, ease back into it and then see how you're feeling.  You could comfortably just cruise for another month, and if you then decide CHC full in April is your gig, that is plenty of time to get in good shape.  You aren't actually fully recovered until a little while after you feel fully recovered, apparently.

                            3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)  

                            10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)

                            * Net downhill course

                            Last race: Run the Point 10k, 27 Nov, 35:00, 1st overall

                            Up next: Clevedon Country Half Marathon, 5 Feb

                            "CONSISTENCY IS KING"

                            Fredford66


                            Running Musician

                              Steve, Watson, Zebano, Keen - Thank you.  Maybe I can use this to learn to rely on my training and not be so worried about how I'll do.  Honestly, I think I built up "Sub-1:50" a little too much and it began to play on my mind.  I should just relax and let good races happen when they will.  Part of it is probably when I ran my first half in 2:04, seven years ago, I only dared dream of going sub-2 and never even considered 1:48:32 in the realm of possibility.

                              5k 23:48.45 (3/22); 4M 31:26 (2/22); 5M 38:57 (11/22); 10k 49:24 (10/22); Half 1:48:32 (10/22)

                              Upcoming race(s): Winter Series #5 Trail 10k, 2/4; E. Murray Todd Half, 3/12
                              ccoakley


                                Fred, congratulations on such a huge PR!!! That's really a lot of time to shave off, well done.

                                 

                                MickJogger, not only did he set the 50k record but it was just a bleeping training run for him.   I forget which one but he's got a big marathon coming up.

                                 

                                Zebano, great week with mileage and some very speedy intervals.  Hope the hamstring is nothing.

                                 

                                JamesD, glad to hear you're back to normal.

                                 

                                Cfarr, I've seen quite a few runs from you on Strava, hope that means things are looking up.

                                 

                                Piwi, what's with all the bike rides?  Everything ok?

                                 

                                I had another feel like me again week.  I cannot get over how much it feels like someone flipped my on switch back on.  Now I just have to remember I essentially took 4 months off and have to ease back in.  All the high mileage talk has helped me decide to focus on getting my mileage back up with mainly easy runs and 2 short workouts a week.

                                 

                                 

                                Weekly for period: From: 10/03/2022 To 10/09/2022

                                Date Name mi km Duration Avg/mi Avg/km Elevation Gain
                                in ft
                                10/03 That time of year where under 60 feels so cold and I overdress for all my runs 7.10 11.43 01:18:16 11:01 06:51 138
                                10/03 Afternoon Walk 3.61 5.81 01:11:00 19:40 12:13 89
                                10/04 6 x 600m 5.01 8.06 00:50:07 10:00 06:13 82
                                10/05 Picking up donuts for the birthday girl 🥳🍩 3.90 6.28 00:44:12 11:20 07:02 138
                                10/06 20 min progression 4.00 6.44 00:38:58 09:45 06:03 59
                                10/07 Morning Run 12.01 19.32 02:16:23 11:21 07:04 233
                                10/09 Lunch Run 8.21 13.20 01:40:34 12:15 07:37 167

                                Total distance: 43.84mi

                                5k 24:53 (2020) |10k 52:24 (2021) |HM 1:57:14 (2019) |FM 4:24 (2007) |50k 5:57 (2022)