The Waltons aka Advanced Half Marathon Training Thread - 2022 edition (Read 443 times)

flavio1980


Intl. correspondent

    Quick fly by:

     ScottC did you see CJ Albertson 50k world record - he ran it on my course around Lake Merced, SF / near Daly City. At first, when I saw Taggart VanEtten's post about it, I thought it was a joke. It looked exactly like the 5 mile loop I am so familiar with. It's a pretty hard course to run a 50k record, since its up hill / down hill but gradual, it's not at all flat. I am surprised and gave him a follow on Strava, I will have to work hard to take down some of his segments, but I won't surrender.

     

    CJ is such a character. I think he's probably the most "one of us" of the elites. He works full time as a high school coach and he coaches a lot of runners remotely through TeamRunRun (my wife included, and also myself towards my marathon last year).

    Somehow he has time to train (and he runs a LOT), travel, race, run world records and watch over his son. I think for him running these world records is his equivalent of us chasing a Strava segment crown.

    I think he might still be self coached, even though he finally managed to secure some sponsorship last year from Brooks and Coros.

    I was on the edge of my seat at Boston last year when the Kenyans forgot about him, pity he didn't have a 2h08 in him that day or he might have won it (Meb style).

    PRs: 1500 4:54.1 2019 - 5K 17:56 2021 HM 1:21:59 2021

    Up next: 10K corrida das 4 estacoes - Coimbra/Portugal 2023-02-05

    Tool to generate Strava weekly

      Caitlin great to hear you are feeling better.

       

      Keen you must have felt awesome hammering that last 5k in your half.

       

      Fred great read thanks for sharing. You have even faster in you on a windless day.

       

      Steve one thing that shocked me was when you mentioned your arms cramping. That has to be nutritional ?

       

      I went to the doctors yesterday to get my centre pelvic pain checked. I hate going and haven't been for 4 years.

      Anyway he's a runner too and confirmed likely inflammation in that centre pelvic junction with 8 weeks no running. It's weird as I'm not running much mileage around 20 mpw the last 2 months. Sometimes I think less makes us weaker as runners.

      Then he checked my blood pressure which was high 150/80 and gave me a blood pressure machine for a week. I've used it last night and this morning with readings of 130/80.  I will cut out salt and alot of coffee and see how that goes. I'm a pig with salt.

      I also went for a blood test to check everything else is OK.

      I can bike fine but running jolts pain right through that pelvic area.

      50+ PBs -  

      5k 18.21 Hagley Parkrun  July 21      82.27 % age grade

      10k TT 37.21 may 2nd 2021 strava run 82.51 % age grade

      Half marathon  1.23.30 may 21 80.11 % age grade

      " If you don't use it you lose it,  but if you use it, it wears out.

      Somewhere in between is about right "      

       

      darkwave


      Mother of Cats

        Darkwave - I hope you post your result up here soon.  You raced really well, especially given your challenges this year, and your wonky GPS! 

         

        Thanks - and sorry for the delayed response, as I wanted to get my race report done first - it's here.

         

        As for the GPS - that wasn't surprising - GPS is always off at Chicago, and I had my watch set to "smart" rather than "every second" because I wanted to make sure the watch lasted the entire morning (I should probably get a new watch...).  It was a non-issue because I didn't look at my watch until after the race.

         

        James - October running can be fantastic, can't it.  I think October, November, and April are probably the three best running months around here.

         

        Marky_Mark - it's good to see the progress!

        Fred - Massive congratulations on the big PR.   I'm so glad that you ran your best run when it counted the most.  That's how it should be done.  Clearly the key to good racing is breaking stuff during the warm-up.

         

        Zebano - it's good to see you post a full week.  Are you running after swimming?  I know that's how triathletes do it, but I've always preferred the reverse.

         

        CK - nice race.  Apparently stomach bugs work for you?

         

        CCoakley - I'm so glad you're back.

         

        Piwi - is it Pubis Symphsis?  I've dealt with a mild case of that before, and it sucked.

         

        ***

        My week:

         

        45 miles running, 1 hour pool-running, and 500 yards swimming.

        M: 60 minutes pool-running and light upper body weights/core
        T: 7 miles, with 4x800 in 3:34, 3:28, 3:23, 3:20 (recoveries of 2:4x-3:0x after the 800s). Followed with light leg strengthwork and 500 yards recovery swimming
        W: Yoga and 5 miles very easy (9:36) and drills.
        Th: 4 miles, including 1600m at early marathon effort (7:42), followed with upper body weights/core.
        F: Travel and DIY yoga
        Sa: DIY yoga and 2 miles very easy (10:08) plus drills.
        Su: .8 miles jog, and then Chicago Marathon in 3:24:40 (gun time - split 1:41/1:43).

        Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

         

        And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

        Marky_Mark_17


           

          I completely agree on the fill your own bottle thing.  Who wants to come to a full stop and wait for water to pour out of a thermos jug into a cup or bottle?  I consider myself quite fortunate that 1) my son's water bottle is compatible with my belt and 2) my son and wife were willing to meet me at the halfway point and trade off empty/full bottles.

           

          SO ANNOYING! Fortunately it's mostly only trail races here that do that, which I understand as you don't want to facilitate littering in the forest.  The one road race that does it (Taupo) is run by a group that mostly run trail race so go figure. 

          3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)  

          10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)

          * Net downhill course

          Last race: Clevedon Country Half Marathon, 5 Feb, 1:17:50, 1st overall

          Up next: Waterfront Half Marathon, 2 Apr

          "CONSISTENCY IS KING"

          SteveChCh


          Hot Weather Complainer

            darkwave - I enjoyed your race report, particularly the solo first mile.  I would have enjoyed that, but obviously not the second mile or being passed for most of the race - you are right, it is depressing but at least you had a good reason.  You sound a bit resigned that your normal stride won't return, or am I being a bit pessimistic in my reading?  Keen posts a down week bigger than my biggest week, now you post a Personal Worst over 10 minutes better than my Personal Best...this is the place to be to stay humble!

             

            I do like your attitude of "it was the best I had on the day".  I've reached the acceptance stage of grieving, and now appreciate that 3:35 isn't horrific when I spent 7 and a half minutes unable to move, screaming in pain.  But I'm struggling to accept in my mind that I'm a 3:35 marathoner, even though that is what I am - it was the best I had on the day.

             

            piwi - Yep, I'm pretty sure my issue was 99% nutritional, somehow.  I most definitely wasn't doing anything I wasn't capable of when it hit.  So sorry to hear about your issues.  Good to see you've been out on the bike though.

             

            Caitlin - Great to see you are feeling better and posting a really good week.  It's been a tough road for you.

             

            watson, Mark - I am slowly coming round to ChCh 2023.  It is my best chance for perfect conditions, including zero travel.  There is a slight chance of a warm day (2021 it got to 29C/84F but that's a serious outlier for April).  Plus it means I train through summer - doing my long runs in February in Christchurch will sort out my nutrition and cramp issues one way or another.  I haven't told my partner yet, who thinks I'm off marathon training for quite some time.  Mark how soon did you jump back in, which then caused you to struggle for 2 months?  I'm doing what I think is the right amount but good to hear your perspective.

             

            I went back and listened to the Running Rogue podcast on "The Triumph and Pain of Running" (episode 258), and at the 58:30 mark there's about 2 minutes of gold where he talks about the duality of outcomes, and not focusing on just the pain when there is also some triumph to be found.  I wish I hadn't been so depressed and negative in the stadium and crossing the finish line because getting there was a triumph.

             

            All (on both threads) - Thanks for indulging my grieving period and making almost every post about it...now that I've booked a nutritionist and have started working out when the next race will be, it's time to move on.

            5km: 18:53 12/22 │ 10km: 40:49 2/22 │ HM: 1:27:32* 5/22 │ M: 3:35:02 10/22

            *Net Downhill.  Flat course PR:  1:29:25 6/16

            Upcoming Races:

            Motorway Half Marathon February 26, 2023, City to Surf 12km March 19, 2023, Christchurch Marathon April 16, 2023

            Fredford66


            Running Musician

               

              SO ANNOYING! Fortunately it's mostly only trail races here that do that, which I understand as you don't want to facilitate littering in the forest.  The one road race that does it (Taupo) is run by a group that mostly run trail race so go figure. 

               

              I just learned my next half, at the end of this month, is also using fill stations.  Must be a south Jersey thing....

               

              Hopefully, by then the weather will be cool enough that the one bottle I carry will be enough.

               

              More fun from south Jersey.  A new half marathon announced itself back in June, taking place on December 11.  They listed the course map as "Coming Soon."  I didn't think much of that as they were still 6 months from the race date.  I checked today, 2 months to go, and the course map is still "Coming Soon," though they continue with their scheduled price increases as the date approaches.  I never sign up for a race until I can look at the map.

              5k 23:48.45 (3/22); 4M 31:26 (2/22); 5M 38:57 (11/22); 10k 49:24 (10/22); Half 1:48:32 (10/22)

              Upcoming race(s): Winter Series #5 Trail 10k, 2/4; E. Murray Todd Half, 3/12
              zebano


                Re: CJ. I can't believe he did that on a non-flat loop. Seems like it's ripe for another takedown just by finding a flatter

                 

                Caitlyn glad you're feeling like yourself. Do you have any idea what it was? Just some long-covid symptoms? Looks like your 8x400 went well.

                 

                Steve I'm going to differ from everyone else and say make sure you want it. If you don't 100% want to marathon, then don't. The time commitment to train well is so huge that it's just not worth doing if your heart isn't in it.

                 

                Darkwave Thanks for the RR, I'll catch up on that at my next break.

                 

                I cannot imagine filling your own bottle in a road race . A trail race might be  different but even then it's not ideal.

                1600 - 5:23 (2018), 5k - 19:33 (2018), 10k - 41:20 (2021), half - 1:38:57 (2018), Marathon - 3:37:17 (2018)

                JamesD


                JamesD

                   

                  More fun from south Jersey.  A new half marathon announced itself back in June, taking place on December 11.  They listed the course map as "Coming Soon."  I didn't think much of that as they were still 6 months from the race date.  I checked today, 2 months to go, and the course map is still "Coming Soon," though they continue with their scheduled price increases as the date approaches.  I never sign up for a race until I can look at the map.

                   

                  I'm in a similar situation.  Our local running club is putting on a first-time half on November 19.  (I think it's to compete with a half the same day that's being run by an out-of-towner on the former course of our now-defunct big local half/full.)  For the last few months, the signup page has listed the course as "TBD based off construction."  I don't know what construction they're talking about, since there's nothing major in that area, but I guess it could be anywhere within 6 or so miles of the start/finish.  Assuming I'll be in shape to run a half at all, I suppose I can wait until the course is announced and choose whichever one looks best, but it's still mildly frustrating.

                  Post-1987 PRs:  Half 1:30:14 (2019); 10K 39:35 (2019); 5K 19:12 (2017); Mile 5:37.3 (2020)

                  '23 Goals: health; consistency; age-graded PRs; half < 1:30

                  ccoakley


                    Water bottles, this doesn't bother me at all.  There are hundreds if not thousands of hydration systems out there.  If you're regularly running HMs or FMs and the long training runs they require find one that works for you and carry all the water you need on race day.  My vest wouldn't get me through a marathon but the 2 min it takes to refill also wouldn't make or break my time.  But thinking of all the single use plastic cups, all the volunteer hours to fill them and pick them up afterwards....

                    5k 24:53 (2020) |10k 52:24 (2021) |HM 1:57:14 (2019) |FM 4:24 (2007) |50k 5:57 (2022)

                     

                     

                    SteveChCh


                    Hot Weather Complainer

                      Caitlin - Hydration vests are actually banned in a lot of road marathons, for reasons I'm not really clear on.  For me, I put together a race crew to avoid drink stations anyway but if I had no choice, I'd hate to have to carry a bottle all the way let alone have to stop and wait for it to fill especially behind a queue of people.  Sometimes starting again after a stop when you're hurting REALLY sucks.

                       

                      Edit: Duh, 2013 Boston prompted the banning of vests.  That probably only applies to big city races though.

                       

                      zebano - Yeah that's my thinking too.  I can feel myself wanting it more as time passes but if I'm not 100% I won't sign up.  I agree it's something you have to be completely committed to.

                      5km: 18:53 12/22 │ 10km: 40:49 2/22 │ HM: 1:27:32* 5/22 │ M: 3:35:02 10/22

                      *Net Downhill.  Flat course PR:  1:29:25 6/16

                      Upcoming Races:

                      Motorway Half Marathon February 26, 2023, City to Surf 12km March 19, 2023, Christchurch Marathon April 16, 2023

                      Marky_Mark_17


                        Steve - my weeklies after the marathon were:

                        34.4km (possibly a bit much but I was determined to get set for 10k Champs in 4 weeks time)

                        64.8km (this was the big mistake)

                        59.3km (got sick and it was a mess from here)

                        The next 4-5 weeks were very on/off and a real battle with a sinus infection that took 2 sets of antibiotics to get rid of, the second ones actually made me feel worse than the sinus infection did.  I also got some very weird niggle in one foot that required a lot of strapping.  It wasn't until I took a full week off in early Dec about 8 weeks after the actual race that I managed to get everything back in order.  In hindsight I should've played the first 2-3 weeks very carefully and then gradually built up after that.

                         

                        Looking at CHC as an option for an autumn half next year.  I'd like to do Southern Lakes again but with the current sh!tstorm around traffic management I'm not sure that'll still happen.

                         

                        Zebano is dead right too. If you decide to run another marathon you've gotta be 100% sure on that.  I do think CHC is a good call if that's what you decide is what you want.

                        3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)  

                        10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)

                        * Net downhill course

                        Last race: Clevedon Country Half Marathon, 5 Feb, 1:17:50, 1st overall

                        Up next: Waterfront Half Marathon, 2 Apr

                        "CONSISTENCY IS KING"

                        SteveChCh


                        Hot Weather Complainer

                          Thanks Mark - that makes me feel a bit better because I was worried I was doing too much (although I have reduced every run I've started so far, based on how I feel).  I'm not sure what week 3 will be but week 1 was 24km, week 2 is looking like 35-40km.  Then another reassessment.  I'm keen to learn the lesson from you, rather than experience it personally!  I did want to hit 4000km for the year, and I'm way ahead of where I need to be, but some arbitrary number is not a good reason to risk ruining the next few months.

                           

                          I'm 100% sure I want to do another marathon - it's just whether I'm mentally ready to do one in 6 months.  I agree it's tons of time to be physically ready.

                          5km: 18:53 12/22 │ 10km: 40:49 2/22 │ HM: 1:27:32* 5/22 │ M: 3:35:02 10/22

                          *Net Downhill.  Flat course PR:  1:29:25 6/16

                          Upcoming Races:

                          Motorway Half Marathon February 26, 2023, City to Surf 12km March 19, 2023, Christchurch Marathon April 16, 2023

                          Marky_Mark_17


                            Thanks Mark - that makes me feel a bit better because I was worried I was doing too much (although I have reduced every run I've started so far, based on how I feel).  I'm not sure what week 3 will be but week 1 was 24km, week 2 is looking like 35-40km.  Then another reassessment.  I'm keen to learn the lesson from you, rather than experience it personally!  I did want to hit 4000km for the year, and I'm way ahead of where I need to be, but some arbitrary number is not a good reason to risk ruining the next few months.

                             

                            I'm 100% sure I want to do another marathon - it's just whether I'm mentally ready to do one in 6 months.  I agree it's tons of time to be physically ready.

                             

                            Sounds like you're being pretty smart about it.  Hitting 4000km won't magically make you a better runner.  More important to be in good shape to train for whatever your next event might be.

                            3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)  

                            10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)

                            * Net downhill course

                            Last race: Clevedon Country Half Marathon, 5 Feb, 1:17:50, 1st overall

                            Up next: Waterfront Half Marathon, 2 Apr

                            "CONSISTENCY IS KING"

                            SteveChCh


                            Hot Weather Complainer

                               

                              Sounds like you're being pretty smart about it.  Hitting 4000km won't magically make you a better runner.  More important to be in good shape to train for whatever your next event might be.

                               

                              That's for sure.  I did a lot of looking at the people who showed up on Strava as running with me in Melbourne.  It included people who didn't slow down and finished about where I thought I should.  Not one of them has anywhere near the mileage I do, or shorter distance PRs.  Some have less than half the mileage!

                               

                              Missed your comment on Southern Lakes.  That is very true, but hopefully there's time to sort it out.  The people driving past, even those not supporting, were very careful and courteous but they were very close to the runners.  It would be awful to lose a race that is obviously dear to both of us.  However, if you do the ChCh half, and I do the full, welcome to my race crew!  You wouldn't look at Waterfront?  I see they're 2 weeks apart this time.

                              5km: 18:53 12/22 │ 10km: 40:49 2/22 │ HM: 1:27:32* 5/22 │ M: 3:35:02 10/22

                              *Net Downhill.  Flat course PR:  1:29:25 6/16

                              Upcoming Races:

                              Motorway Half Marathon February 26, 2023, City to Surf 12km March 19, 2023, Christchurch Marathon April 16, 2023

                              Marky_Mark_17


                                Missed your comment on Southern Lakes.  That is very true, but hopefully there's time to sort it out.  The people driving past, even those not supporting, were very careful and courteous but they were very close to the runners.  It would be awful to lose a race that is obviously dear to both of us.  However, if you do the ChCh half, and I do the full, welcome to my race crew!  You wouldn't look at Waterfront?  I see they're 2 weeks apart this time.

                                 

                                Waterfront is definitely an option.  If Southern Lakes happens, I'll be running that for sure and I might use Waterfront as a tune-up.  If Southern Lakes doesn't happen, I'm more inclined to go for CHC - always attracts a good field and more likely to have good conditions than Waterfront.

                                3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)  

                                10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)

                                * Net downhill course

                                Last race: Clevedon Country Half Marathon, 5 Feb, 1:17:50, 1st overall

                                Up next: Waterfront Half Marathon, 2 Apr

                                "CONSISTENCY IS KING"