The Waltons aka Advanced Half Marathon Training Thread - 2022 edition (Read 443 times)

    Mark congrats on the W and after such a short buildup.

    50+ PBs -  

    5k 18.21 Hagley Parkrun  July 21      82.27 % age grade

    10k TT 37.21 may 2nd 2021 strava run 82.51 % age grade

    Half marathon  1.23.30 may 21 80.11 % age grade

    " If you don't use it you lose it,  but if you use it, it wears out.

    Somewhere in between is about right "      

     

    darkwave


    Mother of Cats

      Marky_MArk - congrats on a nice race on less than a full cycle.

       

      James - that is a big taper for a half (I'm not disagreeing or criticizing, just observing)

       

      Hash- solid week with excellent run titles, as always.

       

      Watson -interesting to see the Billat 30/30s - those are rarely seen in the wild.

       

       

      My week:

       

      29 miles running

      M: Off (sick)
      T: streaming yoga (still sick)
      W: 5 miles (10:19) plus drills/strides
      Th: 3 miles on treadmill (10:08) and upper body weights/core (now officially Covid-sick)
      F: 7 miles with half-ass hill workout on treadmill (8 sets of 2:00 at 9:50 pace on 3% incline, 90 second jog, 30 seconds at 7:30-8:30 pace, 60 second jog),
      Sa: 5 miles easy on treadmill (9:45) and streaming yoga.
      Su: 9 miles on the treadmill, including a workout of 6x4 minutes at relaxed tempo (7.5-8 mph) with 72 second jog, then an easy mile, then 4x30 seconds at 8.5-9.0 mph with 60 second jog.

       

      Basically this week's plan (to return to track workouts) went into the dumpster.  I'm feeling pretty much OK now (except for an asthma flare which is the same asthma flare I get every time I get sick).    I'm staying on the treadmill through next Thursday and reducing my volume.  I'm still doing workouts to keep the ball rolling on my neuro issues, but really backing off on the effort/pace to make sure I don't push myself too hard.

      Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

       

      And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

      JamesD


      JamesD

         

        James - that is a big taper for a half (I'm not disagreeing or criticizing, just observing)

         

        You're right, it is, but I seem to need more recovery than I used to.  Also, I'm going into the half a bit undertrained as a result of the hamstring issues over the last several months (which seem to be a bit better recently), but as tired as I've been a few times lately after lengthening my long runs and tempos, I'd rather make sure I'm rested than try to squeeze in a few more miles/sessions.  Did just 7 this morning, and it was surprisingly slow - 9:10 pace at effort that usually results in 8:30-40.  It may have been leftover tiredness from the somewhat faster tempo on Friday, or maybe it was that this was my earliest run in a long time after mainly midday & afternoon runs for the last several months.  Regardless, this will be my first half in 3 years, and I'm looking forward to it even if I'm not in ideal shape.

        Post-1987 PRs:  Half 1:30:14 (2019); 10K 39:35 (2019); 5K 19:12 (2017); Mile 5:37.3 (2020)

        '23 Goals: health; consistency; age-graded PRs; half < 1:30

        zebano


          Mick  it depends on your level of fitness but for most semi-serious runners 2xE, 3xT w/ 2min, 3x3 at H with 200m jog, 4 Strides, 1xE  sounds like a solid workout thought would be worthwhile for many of us  (assume 3 H is 3 min H and not 3 miles).

           

           

          Hash Googling Duck Duck Gray duck would be incredibly unintersting. In short it's a kids game from Sweden that most call Duck Duck Goose and some swedes who settled in Minnesota called Duck Duck Gray Duck which remains the only area of the country to use that variation.

           

          Mark the parrot story is awesome.

           

          James I'm glad you've settled on a half. Wishing you warmer weather.

           

          Mark Heck of a race. Trail will absolutely slow you down. Congrats on the W

           

          Hash  Nice week. Am I crazy? I thought you were training for a marathon, was this a cutback week?

           

          Keen  Your Saturday run title on strava was excellent. I had to do a double take. Very good use of the zwift

           

          Watson/DW Tell me more about these 30/30s? I feel like Jack Daniels posited that time at VO2 max is the best way to train VO2 max and I'm not sure anyone has ever proven that. Regardless I'm curious of any anecdotes you have regarding these.

           

          DW  Good but unfortunate adjustment to the week. Hopefully your case is mild and over soon.

          1600 - 5:23 (2018), 5k - 19:33 (2018), 10k - 41:20 (2021), half - 1:38:57 (2018), Marathon - 3:37:17 (2018)

          zebano


            Miles 51.9

            • Monday - AM 20 min jog, PM 40 min easy + 6 short hill sprints
            • Tuesday - AM 20 min jog, PM 4x4'@5keffort averaged about 6:40/mi so I'm still way out of shape but the effort was there and I quit with a couple reps still in the legs. + 1 mile w/ Dog and kiddo.
            • Wednesday - AM 20 min jog, PM 40 min easy
            • Thursday - AM - 20 min jog. Had planned a 12 miler but opted for more sleep and an early start to my taper as I was really tired.
            • Friday - AM - 20 min jog, PM 40 min easy + 6 short hill sprints
            • Saturday - 7.2 mi / 75 minutes of TRAILS!!!.
            • Sunday - AM 20 min jog, PM hour light progression (partially induced by being chased when I asked a guy to please use headphones instead of a bluetooth speaker for his music). + 1 mile w/ kid and dog.

            I am still slow but I am feeling strong. Endurance has improved and I'm just hoping that with a rest day and taper I'll surprise myself on Saturday (in particular my Sunday progression was controlled but mostly in the 8Tight lippedx/mi range and for that effort I would normally expect about 7:50 per mile average). Regardless, It's historically my favorite race so I'm going to run hard, positive split (required by course), get muddy and have a lot of fun.

            1600 - 5:23 (2018), 5k - 19:33 (2018), 10k - 41:20 (2021), half - 1:38:57 (2018), Marathon - 3:37:17 (2018)

            CommanderKeen


            Cobra Commander Keen

              Stuff not in the marathon thread:

              Mark - I've never heard of that bird before. I need to do some research.


              James - Celebrate the victories that are there! Plenty of time remaining to build back.


              Hashiritai - Nice week, even without any quality work.


              Watson - Good week.


              Fred - Hooray for a return to speed work!


              Zebano - Thanks! I was stuck on the treadmill due to kiddos being home and DW not being there, so I tried to make the most of it.


              Really solid week, nicely done.


              Really nice week here, capped by my biggest LR in a year (moved to Sunday to accommodate DD1's early football (soccer) tournament schedule.


              Odd occurrence in the LR: I was taking gels about every 4.5-5 miles. Around mile 14 the gel felt heavy hitting my stomach, so I didn't take all of it. My stomach didn't improve or get worse (and didn't affect my pacing) at all for the remainder of the workout, but 2.5 miles into my 4 mile cooldown my GI system felt like it was going to revolt and I'd throw up. I stopped and rested for a few minutes (the only interruption in the run) and felt fine afterwards.
              Certainly not what I wanted or expected, since I have been trying gels at that rate during my LRs for weeks now, along with also trying them during HM effort portions of my Wednesday workouts - all without issue.

               

               

              Weekly for period: From: 10/31/2022 To 11/06/2022

              Date Name mi km Duration Avg/mi Avg/km Elevation Gain
              in ft
              10/31 1 rabbit 15.01 24.15 02:01:15 08:05 05:01 584
              10/31 2 hawks 5.06 8.13 00:42:49 08:28 05:16 148
              11/01 The gate closes at 5:46 am 8.11 13.04 01:12:43 08:58 05:35 259
              11/02 20' HMe, 5' 10k, 12' HMe, 3' 10k, 5' HMe 15.06 24.23 01:50:01 07:18 04:32 413
              11/02 9 turtles 5.00 8.05 00:43:00 08:36 05:20 259
              11/03 60° is hot now. Bleh. 8.65 13.93 01:17:59 09:01 05:36 335
              11/04 I'm undecided on the new headlamp 12.05 19.40 01:40:56 08:23 05:12 518
              11/04 1 heron, and aren't afternoon runs supposed to be 20° warmer than morning runs instead of 20° colder? 4.10 6.60 00:35:04 08:33 05:19 171
              11/05 Long shakeout before the Big One tomorrow - Park Perimeter Loop in New York 6.06 9.75 00:51:45 08:32 05:18 0
              11/06 Big One. 6E, 12M effort, 4E 22.01 35.42 02:40:13 07:17 04:31 827

              Total distance: 101.11mi

              5k: 17:58 11/22 │ 10k: 37:55 9/21 │ HM: 1:23:22 4/22 │ M: 2:56:05 12/22

               

              Upcoming Races:

               

              Heartland 50 - May 6

              watsonc123


                Keen - when does your taper start?  You've hit 100+ miles for how many weeks in a row?  I'd fall apart completely.

                 

                Zebano - nice week.

                 

                Darkwave - nice week too, it sounds like you're recovering pretty well?  I hope your partner is also recovering well?

                 

                Did anyone watch New York marathon?  I saw some 10 minute highlights.  For those that didn't.

                - do Nascimento of Brazil led the mens by a long way until he collapsed with around 5 miles to go.

                - Evans Chebet (Kenya) ended up winning the mens.

                - The woman's field was strong, with an upset winner in Sharon Lokedi (Kenya).

                - Lokedi is sponsored by Under Armour incl. the shoes.  So I guess there's now another brand that has super shoes (I'm making the assumption you cannot win New York in inferior shoes).

                - It was a hot day, so would have been really tough for most runners given how much later they start than the elites.

                 

                Re Billat 30/30s, see below.  Apparently she (woman) was a fairly good runner in own right, with a sub 1:20 half.

                 

                https://www.outsideonline.com/health/running/training-advice/workouts/workout-of-the-week-billats-30-30/

                PRs: 5km 18:43 (Dec 2015), 10km 39:59 (Sep 2020), half 1:26:16 (Sep 2016), full 3:09:28 (Jun 2015)

                 

                40+ PRs: 5km 19:31 (Oct 2020), 10km 39:59 (Sep 2020), half 1:29:39 (Jun 2018), full 3:13:55 (Sep 2022)

                CommanderKeen


                Cobra Commander Keen

                  Watson - 4 straight and 5 of my last 6 at 100mi+. Taper starts after next week.

                  Thanks for the rundown on NYC, I missed most of it on my LR.

                   

                  Billat 30-30s aren't something I've done, but I have done (and love, despite how difficult it is Rønnestad 30-15s. Basically 3x (13x 30 sec at 3k-5k effort, 15 sec recovery) with 6:15 recovery between sets. This is a runner's version of a cycling workout.

                  5k: 17:58 11/22 │ 10k: 37:55 9/21 │ HM: 1:23:22 4/22 │ M: 2:56:05 12/22

                   

                  Upcoming Races:

                   

                  Heartland 50 - May 6

                  ccoakley


                    Keen, just wow on all the back to back triple digit weeks.  I know you're a high mileage guy but have previous cycles been this high?  Loved your Strava on Sat!!!

                     

                    Nutrition in general, it always surprises me to read how many of you are still trying to figure out the magic nutrition/hydration formula that will work for you.  You all seem like you've run so many races and have so much experience running.  I guess it just goes to show how much it fluctuates from person to person and day to day.

                     

                    Zebano, great job keeping up with all the doubles!  Is this a temporary gimmick or an attempt to regularly start doubling?

                     

                    DW, really sorry to hear about your covid.  I hope you have a much speedier recovery than me.  

                     

                    Mark, congratulations on the win!!!  I'm blown away that you can keep winning races without gunning for it going into the race.  

                     

                    Watson, very nice progress.  The NY marathon looked beyond miserable and I really feel for people who were trying for PRs.  Or any 1st timers that will think that's a normal experience.

                     

                    Hash, very steady week.

                     

                    Fred, really awesome how much you're enjoying running with your son.

                     

                    James, sounds like you have a solid plan heading into your half.

                     

                    The kids had today and tomorrow off from school so we took a long weekend trip away.  I knew that would lower my weekly mileage but I'm happy with what I got in before we left.  Still just working on getting my mileage back up with mostly easy running. The weather for the Richmond marathon this weekend looks abysmal so I'm feeling much better about deferring.

                     

                    Weekly for period: From: 10/31/2022 To 11/06/2022

                    Date Name mi km Duration Avg/mi Avg/km Elevation Gain
                    in ft
                    10/31 Morning Run 7.13 11.48 01:26:59 12:12 07:35 98
                    11/01 Morning Run 2.90 4.66 00:41:47 14:24 08:58 56
                    11/02 3 x 8' tempo 5.10 8.21 00:50:26 09:53 06:09 98
                    11/03 Crazy elevation chart but I'm pretty sure I didn't run off a cliff 7.20 11.59 01:26:06 11:58 07:26 115
                    11/04 Sprints #GarminDailyWorkout 5.71 9.18 01:03:59 11:12 06:58 108
                    11/05 Garden maze 1.16 1.86 00:41:32 35:48 22:20 69
                    11/06 Morning Run 3.30 5.31 00:34:52 10:34 06:34 49

                    Total distance: 32.50mi

                     

                     

                    5k 24:53 (2020) |10k 52:24 (2021) |HM 1:57:14 (2019) |FM 4:24 (2007) |50k 5:57 (2022)

                     

                     

                    Marky_Mark_17


                      Thanks all - always special to get the win, and it was actually nice to go out there and feel like I raced pretty well which was the main goal.  Bit of a positive split due to the trail but it's the best I've felt in a race since Omaha HM back in late March.  I was probably guilty of holding back a bit over the last km or two when it was back on the road but I had a big lead and no particular desire to smash myself at that point.

                       

                      Anyways couple of fun events to end the year... my backyard local 10km (Run the Point) for the second time this year after 2021's event was deferred to March 2022.  And the Speights West Coaster which is a trail half with some brutal looking hills.

                       

                       

                      Watson - don't forget Kiwi Matt Baxter running 2:17... he was only a few seconds behind former US Olympian Jared Ward.

                       

                      Caitlin - haha it's always good when weather means you don't have race regret like that. A bunch of the races that I missed out on due to Covid cancellations or deferrals ended up being perfect weather days which was pretty annoying.

                       

                      Zebano - oh I'm with you on the headphones! Even worse than a speaker is when someone is just playing music through their phone. Talk about noise pollution.

                      3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)  

                      10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)

                      * Net downhill course

                      Last race: Run the Point 10k, 27 Nov, 35:00, 1st overall

                      Up next: Clevedon Country Half Marathon, 5 Feb

                      "CONSISTENCY IS KING"

                      zebano


                         

                        Nutrition in general, it always surprises me to read how many of you are still trying to figure out the magic nutrition/hydration formula that will work for you.  You all seem like you've run so many races and have so much experience running.  I guess it just goes to show how much it fluctuates from person to person and day to day.

                         

                        Zebano, great job keeping up with all the doubles!  Is this a temporary gimmick or an attempt to regularly start doubling?

                         

                         

                         

                        Caitlyn - How did you like the sprint workout and Garmin workouts in general?

                         

                        Nutrition is certainly always touchier at the marathon distance but frankly my issue isn't figuring out the day to day, it's simply resisting the urge to eat that whole pizza and have a second beer. Two slices, some veggies and a single beer is fine, half a pizza isn't. It's not magic, it's just willpower that I don't have.

                         

                         

                        Thanks, I really really really enjoy the doubles. It's starts my day off right. It gives me a break during work and is generally lower-stress (despite the laundry) than running singles of 1 hour in length. I think that I'm going to continue to do them. The real question is that I will probably do a triathlon or two with my son next year and at that point do I swap the shakeouts out for crosstraining? For what it's worth I've done a couple other periods with a lot of doubles and it was really good for my 5k racing. Since I'm not planning on racing anything longer than a 20k in the next couple months that should be fine.

                        1600 - 5:23 (2018), 5k - 19:33 (2018), 10k - 41:20 (2021), half - 1:38:57 (2018), Marathon - 3:37:17 (2018)

                        Fredford66


                        Running Musician

                           

                           

                          Nutrition is certainly always touchier at the marathon distance but frankly my issue isn't figuring out the day to day, it's simply resisting the urge to eat that whole pizza and have a second beer. Two slices, some veggies and a single beer is fine, half a pizza isn't. It's not magic, it's just willpower that I don't have.

                           

                           

                          +1  For me the weakness is ice cream.  We'd keep it out of the house, but our doctor suggested to our chronically under-weight son that he eat more high-calorie foods, like ice cream (since he's a picky eater), and even said "the real stuff, not low-fat," so there's always ice cream in the house tempting me with it's siren call.

                          5k 23:48.45 (3/22); 4M 31:26 (2/22); 5M 38:57 (11/22); 10k 49:24 (10/22); Half 1:48:32 (10/22)

                          Upcoming race(s): Winter Series #5 Trail 10k, 2/4; E. Murray Todd Half, 3/12
                          ccoakley


                            Zebano, I like the Garmin suggestions.  I wish I knew more about what Garmin's longterm goals are for me.  I'd be more likely to blindly follow it for a month if I knew more. My understanding is that it tries to keep your workouts balanced between anaerobic, aerobic high, and aerobic low.  So I like to look at it each morning to see if what Garmin thinks I need is inline with what I think I need and if it suggests something that sounds fun I usually ditch my planned workout and do its. More power to you on the doubles, I am the opposite and once I'm dressed and out there I'd rather just add a couple miles than start the whole process again.

                             

                            Nutrition, I meant the during a race kind but yeah the day in day out kind is crucial too.  The number one thing holding me back from getting faster is still having 15 lbs from  DS's pregnancy to lose.

                            5k 24:53 (2020) |10k 52:24 (2021) |HM 1:57:14 (2019) |FM 4:24 (2007) |50k 5:57 (2022)

                             

                             

                            zebano


                              Fred -- That delicious delicious iced cream is for your son! Wink

                               

                              Zebano, I like the Garmin suggestions.  I wish I knew more about what Garmin's longterm goals are for me.  I'd be more likely to blindly follow it for a month if I knew more. My understanding is that it tries to keep your workouts balanced between anaerobic, aerobic high, and aerobic low.  So I like to look at it each morning to see if what Garmin thinks I need is inline with what I think I need and if it suggests something that sounds fun I usually ditch my planned workout and do its. More power to you on the doubles, I am the opposite and once I'm dressed and out there I'd rather just add a couple miles than start the whole process again.

                               

                              Nutrition, I meant the during a race kind but yeah the day in day out kind is crucial too.  The number one thing holding me back from getting faster is still having 15 lbs from  DS's pregnancy to lose.

                               

                              ok I'm not going to pretend I have marathon nutrition locked down but I've been using SiS gels off and on for a few years now in training runs and really like them. Hopefully that translates to a good marathon experience eventually but I'm in no rush.

                               

                              Regarding Garmin training yeah I have no idea if that plan makes sense. I feel like we really don't need much in the way of anaerobic training and I'm curious what the difference between high and low aerobic is. Is that Aerobic Capacity (i.e. vVO2) versus LT?

                              1600 - 5:23 (2018), 5k - 19:33 (2018), 10k - 41:20 (2021), half - 1:38:57 (2018), Marathon - 3:37:17 (2018)

                              ccoakley


                                 

                                Regarding Garmin training yeah I have no idea if that plan makes sense. I feel like we really don't need much in the way of anaerobic training and I'm curious what the difference between high and low aerobic is. Is that Aerobic Capacity (i.e. vVO2) versus LT?

                                 

                                When Garmin thinks I need more low aerobic it gives me easy runs like 48 min @ 11:25 (which the preciseness of the minutes and pace always crack me up), high aerobic is something like 3 x 8 min @ 9:15 w/ 3 min @ 13:25 recovery and anaerobic is like 10 x 10 sec @ 5:55 w/ 3 min recovery.

                                5k 24:53 (2020) |10k 52:24 (2021) |HM 1:57:14 (2019) |FM 4:24 (2007) |50k 5:57 (2022)