Advanced Half Marathon Training Thread - 2022 edition (Read 293 times)

    Hello everyone hope you all had a Merry Christmas,  and have a happy New Year!

     

    Corey here 52 yo Male from Spartanburg, South Carolina USA.  I got back into running in 2010 ran my first marathon in 2011 but did not get serious until 2016 and 2017 when I increased my training and focus.  I peaked in late 2018 and 2019 got injured and have declined in activity and motivation since.  Still trying to get the motivation to get out there and try to improve/be my best, it's a tough balance between work home life and training to improve.

    Goal for this year are to sign up for some actual races and focus on training to improve.

    target races 

    Greenville HM                                    February 26     no goal time just finish

    Race for the Gold HM                       March 12   no goal time finish

    Mountains to Main HM                     May 14 TBD 1:35-1:40

    Anderson Midnight Flight 1mile     Aug 26 sub 5:30

    Kiawah Island HM                            Dec 10  TBD this would be my goal race PB attempt

    PR's

    1m  5:38 (2018)

    5k    19:59 (2019)

    HM  1:33:56 (2018)

    FM  3:23:07 (2018)

      Happy new year everyone sorry we are a day ahead 

       

      Yes to echo the above those calculators work well for me if im running consistently over 50 mpw for several months but I would need 60 to 70 mpw for the marathon to line up.

       

      The body type is important too. We have Flavio the 1500m expert who struggles at the marathon and people like RP who seem to be the opposite. I put myself kinda in the middle with that.

      50+ PBs -  

      5k 18.21 Hagley Parkrun  July 21      82.27 % age grade

      10k TT 37.21 may 2nd 2021 strava run 82.51 % age grade

      Half marathon  1.23.30 may 21 80.11 % age grade

      " If you don't use it you lose it,  but if you use it, it wears out.

      Somewhere in between is about right "      

       

      cc4life07


      Wind is not my friend.

        In my peak fitness, I never ran longer than 8K.  Always wonder what I would have done for longer races during that time...

         

         

        I would put myself in the same boat as you, my times at shorter distances line up better than longer distances.  Apparently RP feels the opposite.  Certainly there are some runners like that.

         

        In addition to training volume, I think body-type matters a lot too.  I am built like a rugby player so even if I am at peak fitness I still carry more mass than a prototypical lithe distance runner.  At longer distances it is vitally important to keep the core body temperature cool and that is harder to do with more mass.  That is what I tell myself anyway.  Even when I was training well and in peak fitness, I never could get my long distances to line up with short ones.

        "Current" PRs

        5K - 18:00 (4/19)   |   HM - 1:19:28 (4/22)

        Next Race: A 5K of some sort (Goal: Sub 17:30)

        flavio1980


        Intl. correspondent

          Cc4 - nerd - Oh I see, now that makes sense. I remember there was a spreadsheet on the old forum that you could input mileage into it.

          I’m also faster at the shorter races, with the 1500m being my preferred one.

           

          Nerd - I seem to be noticing more and more built guys at the top of marathons. But yeah I’m guessing absolute weight matters a lot.

           

          Corey - Welcome back, adding your races now.

          PRs: 1500 4:51 2019 - 5K 17:56 2021 HM 1:21:59 2021

          Up next: Portuguese National Master champs 1500m 2022-06-18

          Tool to generate Strava weekly

          JamesD


          JamesD

            Another think any of those running calculators (Macmillan) actually match the performances from distance to distance? I know they’re just a guide but curious if anyone matches really well. 

            I’ve got a 5k in about a week I’m looking to hopefully run well at and get a decent idea of training paces for the next 3 months for my half.

             

            My 5K times are better than the calculator-generated equivalent times at longer distances.  I've always assumed that's my low mileage totals trumping my lack of natural speed (in high school I was relatively good at 3-mile xc, mediocre at the track two mile, and bad at anything shorter).  There's a lot of variation between calculators too - runbundle claims my most recent 5K time, 19:15, is equivalent to a 1:26 half, while McMillan says it's equivalent to a 1:29.  (I think the latter might be possible if I can put together an injury-free training block and have ideal race-day conditions, but 1:26 seems ridiculous.)

             

            Are you using a McMillan plan?  Someone who posted here a couple of years ago (Elizabeth?) had success with his coaching.  His half baseline workouts, starting at 2x3 miles @ goal pace & getting longer, seem pretty hard to me, though.

             

            Good luck in your 5K.  Let us know how it goes.

            Post-1987 PRs:  Half 1:30:14 (2019); 10K 39:35 (2019); 5K 19:12 (2017); Mile 5:37.3 (2020)

            2022 Goals: Get/stay healthy; run consistently; Half<1:30; PR or 80% age-grade at one distance

            Longboat


            On the roads again...

              Another think any of those running calculators (Macmillan) actually match the performances from distance to distance? I know they’re just a guide but curious if anyone matches really well. 

              I’ve got a 5k in about a week I’m looking to hopefully run well at and get a decent idea of training paces for the next 3 months for my half.

               

              McMillan is usually close for medium mileage runners (30-50mpw). As James points out, Daniels calculators generate faster long-race times from the same short-race input. That's because Daniels' calculators are aimed at higher-mileage/elite runners. This was discussd many times  on the old RWOL marathons forums; our consensuswas that for a runner to be "equally trained" for Daniels tables, they needed at least 70 mpw, and 80 mpw would be a safer bet.


              Running an all-out 5k is a good basis for setting training paces, but only marginally useful for setting a marathon pace. A race in the 15k-HM range is much more accurate for that.

              BTW, a friend in Florida built a very useful excel spreadsheet for Daniels paces which would apply to your training pace setting.
              I've used it for years for runners I coach and myself. You can download it at https://www.electricblues.com/html/runpro.html (updated to 2020). It also has age-grading, temperature effects, weight effects, and VDOT calculators, 

              Neil

              --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
              “Some people will tell you that slow is good – but I'm here to tell you that fast is better. I've always believed this, in spite of the trouble it's caused me. - Hunter S. Thompson

              cc4life07


              Wind is not my friend.

                Sounds like everyone has different experiences with the calculators. Just find it interesting!  I agree that Daniels is always for heavier mileage. Reading his book always made my mileage feel pedestrian. I guess it is but even worse. My plan right now is somewhat based on MacMillan. I did a little tweaking of it but overall the same concept. My 5k next week is hopefully going to be close to sub 18 and then I’ll throw it in any calculator I can find to see which one I like best!

                "Current" PRs

                5K - 18:00 (4/19)   |   HM - 1:19:28 (4/22)

                Next Race: A 5K of some sort (Goal: Sub 17:30)

                darkwave


                Mother of Cats

                  So now that's it's 2021 2022, I'll jump in.

                   

                  Darkwave - female and 47 years old.  I live in Arlington, Virginia, which is the part of Northern Virginia that is essentially Washington DC without the negatives of living in DC proper.  About 50% of my weekly mileage is run in DC or Maryland, not Virginia.

                   

                  I started running 14 years ago, at the age of 33, so I'm an adult onset runner.  My previous sport was horses - hunter-jumper to be exact.  If you want to see me riding at the age of 17, it's here.  My PRs as of January 1, 2022:  Mile: 5:25 (2017); 5K: 18:51 (2017); 10K: 38:56 (20:17); 10M: 1:02:28 (2019); Half: 1:24:08 (2019); Full: 2:57:42 (2018).

                   

                  I'm injury prone and overtrain easily (possibly age, possibly autoimmune stuff) so a fair amount of my training is cross training (pool-running, swimming, yoga, weights), and I run my easy runs very slowly relative to my race paces.    I also have moderate-to-severe asthma (that's what they call it), am allergic to a whole slew of stuff, and have a bunch of auto-immune issues including ulcerative colitis. Currently I'm working through some weird balance/leg coordination/leg weakness issue that everyone thinks is neurological except for the neurologist (who is very good and very attentive and very thorough).

                   

                  I'm in-house counsel at a large international corporation, where I manage ediscovery and litigation, as well as serving as the legal department's point person for IT.  I telecommute full time and live very close to a track and an indoor pool - very convenient for training.  If you're wondering how I fit stuff in - that's how.

                   

                  I live with my boyfriend/partner of a decade plus and three cats, all defective (one has severe allergies, the other two are visually impaired).   I also have a treadmill called Fluffy.

                  Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

                   

                  And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

                  darkwave


                  Mother of Cats

                    Sounds like everyone has different experiences with the calculators. Just find it interesting!  I agree that Daniels is always for heavier mileage. 

                     

                    I suspect that there are very few people that those calculators work perfectly for.  For one thing, each distance has its own physiological requirements, and it would be rare for someone to be equally strong in all areas.  Heck, one thing that makes elites elite is that they are freakishly strong in one area, which implies that they are relatively weak in other areas.

                     

                    I would go so far as to say that the more talented you are, the less likely those calculators are to hold true across all distances, simply because talent implies having extra strength in certain areas.

                     

                    I think you also have to consider whether you've truly had an opportunity to give you best shot at all distances.  I think a lot of people are "weaker" at the marathon distance simply because they haven't had enough shots to get it right.   Conversely, if you race marathons at sea level and tapered, but train through your 5K races at altitude, you'll be skewed towards longer distances.

                    Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

                     

                    And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

                    JamesD


                    JamesD

                      Corey - Hope you get to run your races.  If you’ve done it before, what’s Mountains to Main like?  From the website it looks similar to Greenville but with fewer runners and warmer (better for me) temperatures.  How about Kiawah?  I probably could talk DW into going to Greenville if our son hasn't finished finals at Clemson yet, and I'm sure I could talk her into going to Kiawah.

                       

                      Me - I finished 2021 with 2,170 miles/3,493 km., or 41.6 mpw.  That’s 5+ mpw better than my previous high.  Doubt I’ll go quite as far this year, as we have a couple of trips planned, and if I’m healthy I hope to race more, which means more taper & recovery weeks.  I’m still doing easy to steady runs with the distance determined by when my glutes & hamstrings tighten up, but my lungs and quads are feeling reasonably strong and my times have been faster than usual.  It’s been pleasantly warm the last few days, but Monday morning’s low will be below freezing.

                       

                      Sun - 8.3 miles very slow treadmill (96 minutes) + 0:40 walk breaks after every 6:00

                      Mon - 28 minutes swimming

                      Tues -  8.5 miles in park @ 8:16

                      Weds - 8.8 miles very slow treadmill (102 minutes) +/0:40 walk breaks/6 mins 

                      Thurs - 9 miles in park @ 8:31 + 0:50 walk breaks/1.5 miles, TDP 143 (my kind of winter)

                      Fri - off

                      Sat - 9.4 in park @ 8:16, TDP 142

                       

                      Total - 44 miles



                      Post-1987 PRs:  Half 1:30:14 (2019); 10K 39:35 (2019); 5K 19:12 (2017); Mile 5:37.3 (2020)

                      2022 Goals: Get/stay healthy; run consistently; Half<1:30; PR or 80% age-grade at one distance

                      watsonc123


                        +1 to Darkwave's comments.

                         

                        McMillan has me (using 5km PR)

                         

                               PR         McMillan

                        5k        18:43      18:43

                        10k      39:59      38:52

                        Half  1:26:16   1:26:39

                        Full   3:09:27   3:02:22

                         

                        So my half lines up.  But my 10k and Full are slower than predicted.  I've only ran four 10ks (one in bad conditions, and one no taper), and only two marathons (both a little sick, the second with a niggle injury).  But I've ran many 5k and half's, so have had much more chance of getting it right.

                         

                        Anyhow, first weekly for 2022 for the thread.  It's been warm here which is not easy.

                         

                        Weekly for period: From: 27/12/2021 To 02/01/2022

                        Date Name mi km Duration Avg/mi Avg/km Elevation Gain
                        in m
                        27/12 Evening Run 2.88 4.63 00:26:37 09:15 05:45 12
                        28/12 Morning Run 5.91 9.51 00:52:26 08:52 05:31 19
                        29/12 Afternoon Run - 5.0-13.0km Steady 11.81 19.00 01:29:59 07:37 04:44 47
                        30/12 Afternoon Run 2.99 4.82 00:26:30 08:52 05:30 11
                        31/12 Afternoon Run - Incl. 2 x Riverstone Hill 11.19 18.00 01:40:14 08:57 05:34 318
                        01/01 Morning Run 4.43 7.12 00:38:23 08:40 05:23 9
                        02/01 Morning Run 4.41 7.10 00:38:35 08:45 05:26 11

                        Total distance: 70.19km

                        PRs: 5km 18:43 (Dec 2015), 10km 39:59 (Sep 2020), half 1:26:16 (Sep 2016), full 3:09:28 (Jun 2015)

                         

                        40+ PRs: 5km 19:31 (Oct 2020), 10km 39:59 (Sep 2020), half 1:29:39 (Jun 2018)

                        Marky_Mark_17


                          James - congrats on the record mileage effort!

                           

                          I finished 2021 on 4,371km, only slightly down on the 4,437km I ran in 2020 when I trained for a marathon for way too long.  Admittedly the last 3 months of 2020 were quite light after the marathon, but I was surprised I got that close.

                           

                          In other weird stats, I ran every Saturday and Wednesday in 2021.

                           

                          Watson - nice week.  Hope you can get some decent consistency in your training.  It's been warm here too but a little less humid which helps a lot.  This morning it was 20C at 6:30am when I started.

                           

                          Me - solid week.  No big long run this week as I'd already got plenty of mileage the rest of the week, although I did throw a ton of hills in this morning.  I did use the opportunity mid-week to scout the course for the 10k I'm hopefully running in a couple weeks (FINGERS CROSSED!).  It's not very fast with quite a few rollers and turns, but it is pretty picturesque (basically loops around an estuary near the beach) and should be fun, and frankly mid-January isn't really ever going to be that fast!

                           

                          Also, tripped over today for the first time in ages.  There was a tiny lip on the footpath which unfortunately reminded me why I always run on the cycle path on the roadside on that particular section.  Just a couple minor scrapes and slightly bruised pride, so it could've been worse.  A former work colleague of my wife actually broke her collarbone while running just slightly further up the same road a few years back.

                           

                          Weekly for period: From: 27/12/2021 To 02/01/2022

                          Date Name mi km Duration Avg/mi Avg/km Elevation Gain
                          in m
                          27/12 That run where I was surprisingly not too beat up after my longest run in a few months 6.28 10.10 00:46:12 07:21 04:34 71
                          28/12 That run where it’s back to the soup 9.98 16.05 01:01:02 06:07 03:48 172
                          29/12 That run with a trip to Ninja country 8.99 14.46 01:03:26 07:03 04:23 90
                          30/12 That run where 2021 is in the (running) books 8.25 13.27 00:50:26 06:07 03:48 79
                          01/01 That run where “at it before dawn on New Years Day” is my kind of crazy 😜 8.71 14.01 00:52:32 06:02 03:45 131
                          02/01 That run where I carked it for the first time in almost 2 years 10.62 17.09 01:14:41 07:02 04:22 263

                          Total distance: 84.98km

                          3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)  

                          10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)

                          * Net downhill course

                          Last race: Southern Lakes HM, 7 May, 1:12:42 (May-22)

                          Up next: Auckland 10km Road Champs, 20 August

                          "CONSISTENCY IS KING"

                            Mark solid work in the heat. I haven't tripped for a few years. As long as you get your hands down in time to save yourself, then it normally ends up minor.

                             

                            My week pathetic I know 😃

                             

                            Weekly for period: From: 27/12/2021 To 02/01/2022

                            Date Name mi km Duration Avg/mi Avg/km Elevation Gain
                            in m
                            27/12 Morning Run 3.94 6.34 00:32:46 08:19 05:10 9
                            29/12 Beach with big Phill 6.22 10.01 00:51:07 08:13 05:06 20
                            30/12 Morning Run 6.23 10.02 00:48:57 07:51 04:53 8
                            02/01 Morning Run with Phildawg 6.25 10.05 00:51:36 08:15 05:08 13

                            Total distance: 36.42km

                            50+ PBs -  

                            5k 18.21 Hagley Parkrun  July 21      82.27 % age grade

                            10k TT 37.21 may 2nd 2021 strava run 82.51 % age grade

                            Half marathon  1.23.30 may 21 80.11 % age grade

                            " If you don't use it you lose it,  but if you use it, it wears out.

                            Somewhere in between is about right "      

                             

                            ccoakley


                              Half of you guys living in the future is really blowing my mind

                              5k 24:53 (2020) |10k 52:24 (2021) |HM 1:57:14 (2019) |FM 4:24 (2007) |50k 5:57 (2022)

                               

                               

                              darkwave


                              Mother of Cats

                                Nice weeks, y'all (that includes you, Piwi).  MarkyMark - sorry about the fall but glad no serious injuries.

                                 

                                For the heck of it, I did the same thing as Watson - enter my 5K PR into McMillan and see what it gave me for other predicted PRs. Looks like I'm better at longer distances.

                                 

                                Distance McMillan Actual
                                mile 5:25.8 5:25
                                5K 18:51 18:51
                                10K 39:09 38:56
                                Half 1:27:16 1:24:08
                                Marathon 3:03:40 2:57:42

                                 

                                Should note that I've run 5:25 for the mile twice and have run 18:53 twice for 5K (in addition to my 18:51 PR) so I'm comfortable that those PRs are adequate reflections of my abilities at those distances.

                                Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

                                 

                                And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.