Advanced Half Marathon Training Thread - 2022 edition (Read 127 times)

zebano


    James, ha! My DH has never voluntarily sweated in his life.  Sometimes I wonder what it would be like to be married to another runner but I kinda like that by default my running takes priority.  He's super supportive and I can always sign up for any race I want without worrying about childcare.  I really just need to get the 6 yr old on a bike but so far she just doesn't have any interest.

     

    ohh I remember those days. Getting them biking is a huge chore (depending on the kid) and then 2 months after they start biking they're pedaling away from you going "How come you're so slow??? HURRY UP". Next thing you know every run is a tempo run.

     

    Short term idea. Get DH on a bicycle with a child carrier.

     

    Rp what's this about multiple gels in the final mile of a marathon? I'm puking just thinking about it. I think 1:23HM is sandbagging it for you  The way you can just hold on in really long races is amazing, get training and I think you have a chance at a 1:20. Are you using CityStrides to track your zipcode progress? p.s. sub-8 feels easy because you're underestimating what you're capable of.... again Wink Add some workouts in and see if you slowdown during the easy sessions.

    Really solid weekly mileage.

     

    Steve  I started reading your story about only 1 tumble and I thought "this guy doesn't run trails" ... and then I read the rest of it! Perfect. There are just those days that it doesn't matter how good your screw shoes are, you're going down or you're not actually running. That's awesome that the shingles are finally gone, I hope your running is a bit easier from here on out.

     

    Flavio  no fever for 2 days sounds like reason to go for a run! Whoohoo, glad you're almost over it. What don't you like about JD's Interval plans other than he jumps from none of it straight to stuff like 6x800.

     

    Have we ever discussed that VO2max (not vVo2max) is mostly genetic and training has very little impact on it? Does that imply Vo2 intervals are mostly about running economy at a specific pace and just being used to the pain on race day?

     

    Ohh waffle house breakfast into a run? You're a bold man.

     

    DW  still so sorry you're going through that, but I'm amazed that it's getting better

    1600 - 5:23 (2018), 5k - 19:33 (2018), 10k - 41:20 (2021), half - 1:38:57 (2018), Marathon - 3:37:17 (2018)

    flavio1980


    Intl. correspondent

       Things got worse and worse for a month, and then started improving.  

      And that, Ladies and Gentlemen, is giving me the necessary perspective about things in life before I come out with yet another exaggeration.

      PRs: 1500 4:51 2019 - 5K 17:56 2021 HM 1:21:59 2021

      Up next: Rest and recover

      Tool to generate Strava weekly

      flavio1980


      Intl. correspondent

         

        We usually don't tell the newbies that part until they've been on for a while...

         

        Shhh, don't spill the blood/beans

        PRs: 1500 4:51 2019 - 5K 17:56 2021 HM 1:21:59 2021

        Up next: Rest and recover

        Tool to generate Strava weekly

        flavio1980


        Intl. correspondent

           Flavio  no fever for 2 days sounds like reason to go for a run! Whoohoo, glad you're almost over it. What don't you like about JD's Interval plans other than he jumps from none of it straight to stuff like 6x800.

           

          Have we ever discussed that VO2max (not vVo2max) is mostly genetic and training has very little impact on it? Does that imply Vo2 intervals are mostly about running economy at a specific pace and just being used to the pain on race day?

           

           

          Thank you, JD has some freakish workouts, I see Jmac killing himself at every 5k training block, something stupid like 7x1200 at 5k pace. But because Jmac is running close to 16 minutes for a 5k, it makes sense FOR HIM.

           

          We have not discussed that vo2max is genetic, but thank you for bringing it up, this will catch flames like there's no tomorrow and my/our thread shall rule them all 😈

           

          FWIW, I think vo2 max really improves your fitness, it might not improve your vo2max, but it will improve the % of vo2max that you can use at 5k pace.

          PRs: 1500 4:51 2019 - 5K 17:56 2021 HM 1:21:59 2021

          Up next: Rest and recover

          Tool to generate Strava weekly

            James congrats on the annual mileage and way to start off the year!

            DW glad your health is improving hope they can determine the cause,I can imagine not knowing what this issue is can be a bit worrisome and frustrating.

            Caitlin nice week I can't imagine pushing a stroller while running, we did just get a stroller for our dog but don't think I'll be taking her on any runs.

            Fred welcome to the group

            Zebano I really like the mile I will try and put some specific training in for it this year. I hope to find a couple of more 1 miles races maybe one with a better course suitable for speed.

            Steve nice week glad to hear the shingles are clearing up and hope your sleep improves.  I wish I could take afternoon naps!

            Flavio that sucks but I'm glad you are improving hope no longterm side effects.

            RP thanks appreciate that!

            I went back and took a look at my annual mileage history.  The last 3 year have not been that great and gone down each year hope to increase this year.

            • 2015     460 m
            • 2016     850 m
            • 2017     705 m
            • 2018    2084 m
            • 2019    1650 m
            • 2020    1510 m
            • 2021    1090 m 

            PR's

            1m  5:38 (2018)

            5k    19:59 (2019)

            HM  1:33:56 (2018)

            FM  3:23:07 (2018)

              another note I just ordered a pair of Saucony Endorphin Speed 2 hope to have them on Wednesday.  I hope I can use them as a daily training shoe as well as for some up tempo workouts.

              I still have my New Balance RC elites.  I have about 40 miles on them now and I'm starting to get used to them, my Initials runs my big toes were very sore afterwards, not so much the last 2 runs.

              PR's

              1m  5:38 (2018)

              5k    19:59 (2019)

              HM  1:33:56 (2018)

              FM  3:23:07 (2018)

              arunnerd


              Roads Scholar

                Man, miss a couple of days and pay the price.  Whoosh, so much to read.

                 

                I finished 2021 with 520 miles, which isn't bad considering my first run in 5 years was July.  This past week was an unplanned cutback week but compared to most of you even my hard weeks look like cutback weeks.  I am in base building mode again and when my body says I need more rest, I listen.

                 

                Welcome Fred, a 2000 mile year sure sounds serious to me.  You, me, and CC0 appear to be running similar paces.  If the rest of them run off and leave us we will just hang back and talk about them.  I've seen pictures of what some of them wear, and well....

                I strive towards laconic wit, my wife says I'm halfway there.

                  

                arunnerd.blogspot.com

                Running Problem


                Problem Child

                  Fred 110 miles is definitely a fair amount of roads. I've seen some cut throughs, and I've determined "if I wouldn't send a car down there I won't run it." It seems to make things easier along with "the road ends where the mailbox is" works for some rural areas, although some have the old school version of the "central mailbox location" the post office mandated in 2012 (for efficiency which caused a discussion on a run) and I'll have to omit the rule for that point and make it "at what point would I say my driveway STARTS on this "road" because some roads here dead end into your front yard.

                   

                  Zeb Others know the story better than me. I believe the poster wasn cliff/cliz or something along those lines, wrote a race report even longer than I could and said he took a gel like every 1/4 mile in the last few miles of a marathon. I believe it was 8 total. It's one of those "the story keeps getting bigger and bigger every time someone tells it" so I won't tell it without saying I don't actually know the full story. It is from the RWOL days WAAAAAAY before my time.

                  I'm unsure on the VO2Max discussions. I've always thought a lot of running/athletic ability/intellegance is actually genetic. Some peole are just better at things than me, but their "hard" is just as hard as my "hard" in terms of "this sucks" measurement. I'm going to just say the sub 2 hour closed loop marathon probably sucked as much as someone else's sub 4 PR on the same day.

                   

                  flavio your workout suggestions to me look surprisingly like a Hanson's training plan I once followed. I'm sort of tempted to "poke the bear" and get some JD2Q type workouts on the calendar. Nothing says success like overreaching and suffering through training, right?

                   

                  I've been having an ankle pain in my right ankle for probably a month or 5 weeks now. It is actually starting to bug me on runs, and I think it's due to needing new shoes. 500 miles on this pair is more than I had planned, and I have the same pair at work (yes still temporary WFH for an undetermined amount of time) I can swap out. It was there before CIM after rolling the ankle at the trampoline park, and hasn't hindered my ability to run fast, BUT I'm constantly concerned about it. Like "this is going to snap mid run and I'm going to be far from home and in much BIGGER trouble wishing I'd have taken care of it" concern levels. Oh and I used my Theragun for the first time this year (lol!) actually in a long time. MAN I forgot how much it hurt, and how much better it felt. I don't know why I never bought those compression boots I always wanted (I'm cheap) and BOY would I recommend this to anyone with $400 USD burning a hole in their pocket.

                  Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.

                  VDOT 54.9

                  5k19:35 | Marathon 2:56:07

                  Running Problem


                  Problem Child

                    Man, miss a couple of days and pay the price.  Whoosh, so much to read.

                     

                    This needs to go on the front page if there will be a "memorable quotes" section.

                    Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.

                    VDOT 54.9

                    5k19:35 | Marathon 2:56:07

                    CommanderKeen


                    Aspiring Hobby Jogger

                      I'm SO far behind and apologize preemptively for anyone I miss.


                      CC4L - As much as I hate to say it, I think the answer regarding the calculators "varies". RP, for example, tends to outperform at marathons vs any shorter race, so they would be too conservative for him. Flavio is exactly the opposite of this, while I'm in the middle and generally do better at 10k-25k distances.


                      The electricblues calculator is awesome!


                      DWave - You mentioned the cats' defects, but what about the bf/partner's??

                      Glad you have a line of sight on some further treatment and that things are looking up some. Bummer about the Takumi Sen 7s, too. Is it weird that when I first heard they were being released I got a little excited for you?
                      Also, your mile PR still intimidates me.


                      Mark - Close call! Good work in the heat. Also, I wish there were any race courses around here that could be called "picturesque".


                      Oakley - Just wait until one of the Kiwis posts their weekly on a Friday afternoon. Also, I'd think those guys would share some hot stock tips for those of us stuck in the past, but it hasn't happened yet.


                      Flavio - Sorry you've had such a rough time with it, but glad you're feeling better. It's absolutely crazy to me that you can't get any form of treatment at all for this.


                      Fred - Welcome! Attitude/approach is the big thing. And 33 HMs is a ton! I don't know if all the races I've ever done amount to 33.


                      Watson - I have a pair of the Razor Excess, and like them pretty well. Hopefully you will, too.


                      RP - Nothing about those race times from the calculator strike me as out of the realm of possibility for you. Oddly, I think the HM time would be the easiest for you to hit.
                      My pre-CIM garmin vo2 was also 60, and it also went down to 57 thanks to covid and (mostly) antibiotics. It has jumped back to 58 now, though!
                      I ran all the streets in my hometown a couple years ago, much it was a much smaller project than yours. Mine only took a single 20 miler (complete with some overlapping).
                      Bummer about the ankle. Can you just "feel" it on runs, or is it messing with your stride?


                      Zebano - I've always figured that VO2Max is set genetically, but that it takes work to train your body to actually operate at that level (not to mention then increasing your speed/velocity once you get there).


                      CFarr - I really liked the speeds, and lament that I wasn't able to find any in my size when they started selling for stupid cheap. I did pick up a couple pairs of pros during those sales to use for workouts, though. I hope to try the 2s before long.

                       

                      This week was actually a big bigger than I had thought it would be. It certainly felt good to get a bit of a LR in. I moved it to Sunday because Saturday morning it was just above freezing temps, rainy, and windy. In exchange I ended up doing it in sub-0 wind chill Sunday, but that was much more pleasant than the rain would have been (despite having the right gear for those conditions).

                      Weekly for period: From: 12/27/2021 To 01/02/2022

                      Date Name mi km Duration Avg/mi Avg/km Elevation Gain
                      in ft
                      12/27 7 deer (7 strides), 2 hawk, & 1 owl 8.05 12.96 01:06:08 08:13 05:06 397
                      12/28 1 owl 7.05 11.35 00:59:40 08:28 05:15 367
                      12/29 2 owls 9.10 14.65 01:12:52 08:00 04:58 449
                      12/30 2 deer (2 strides) & 1 hawk 6.15 9.90 00:51:10 08:19 05:10 240
                      12/31 2 owls 8.05 12.96 01:05:03 08:05 05:01 387
                      01/01 January 1 and I'm already being lazy 4.11 6.61 00:33:07 08:03 05:01 220
                      01/02 Well, I did want winter. 14.51 23.35 01:59:45 08:15 05:08 568

                      Total distance: 57.04mi

                      5k: 18:14 11/21 │ 10k: 37:55 9/21 │ HM: 1:24:16 11/19 │ M: 3:04:13 11/18

                       

                      Upcoming Races:

                       

                      Rose Rock Trail Run (20k) - 1/29

                      Wurst Race Half - 10/2

                      Running Problem


                      Problem Child

                         


                        The electricblues calculator is awesome!

                         

                         

                        Link added. Another great resource for the front page. If we're all going to argue about heart rate, pace, dead zone running, training plans, nutrition, shoes, and what breakfast is the best we might as well use the same spreadsheet to track performances.

                         

                        Mostly I feel the ankle on runs. I'm probably MORE cautious about it this time of year due to ice, and it hasn't impacted walking or anything else. It is just....there. Being upset. Since I haven't given it any rest since race day. Due to starting multiple new challenges.

                        Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.

                        VDOT 54.9

                        5k19:35 | Marathon 2:56:07

                        cc4life07


                        Wind is not my friend.

                          Alright I'll have to catch up in the new post but the electricblues calculator looks good.  Fun discussion of accuracy throughout the calculators nonetheless.  I personally don't dwell too much on it until hitting things such as tempo paces.

                           

                          All easy miles last week but 49.96 miles for the week.  Would have been my first 50 mile week in several years.  Ironically, I couldn't get my watch started at the beginning of yesterday's run and ended up with 6.98 instead of a little over 7...probably would have made the difference!  What I would do with the extra 0.04...

                           

                          Easy training this week mainly with a shot at a good Sunday 5K.  Hopefully the weather cooperates.  Not a flat course (actually a large hill in the middle) but we'll see.

                          "Current" PRs

                          5K - 18:00 (4/19)   |   HM - 1:25:03 (10/12)

                          Next Race: Salisbury Half Marathon (4/2), Goal: 1:22:59

                          ccoakley


                            Cfarr, running on a full stomach?  That’s a different kind of training

                             

                            RP, the stroller runs were great strength training and running all rolled into one but I think those days are over.  And they were only 2 and 4 in 2020 when I was doing all my runs as stroller runs.  Wow, 4400 ft is not nothing, do you get a huge a boost when you come down to sea level?

                             

                            Steve, oof shingles sounds miserable.  That’s quite the week for still recovering

                             

                            Flavio, great news you’re feeling better

                             

                            Zebano, yeah I’m in no rush to push the bike.

                             

                            Keen, wait were you expecting a sub 50 week?  I thought you were famous for super high mileage?

                             

                            CC4, I don’t think I could end a run on a .98

                             

                            I’m ready to go race official for a few things:

                            Feb 19th 12 hour challenge I’ve never done anything like this so I have no idea what to expect.  My primary goal is to survive and my pie in the sky goal is 50 miles

                            Apr 23rd Monument Ave 10k goal 50:00

                            Nov 12th Richmond marathon goal TBD

                            PRs: 5k 24:53 (2020) 10k 52:24 (2021) HM 1:57:14 (2019) FM 4:24 (2007)

                             

                            Upcoming races:

                            12 hr challenge Feb 19

                            Monument Ave 10K Apr 23

                            Richmond Marathon Nov 12

                             

                            https://www.strava.com/athletes/42517621

                             

                            Running Problem


                            Problem Child

                              CC I honestly don't know if I get a  boost. I've probably expected more from the "sea level boost" while at the same time benefited from it. Perhaps I benefit from it more in longer races. I do recall going on a long run at sea level a few years ago and when my wife asked about it I said "well I ran faster than usual, and I don't feel like it was any harder." Maybe it's because I only RACE at sea level I don't see much benefit. I'm capable of sandbagging at sea level even if my race history doesn't show it. Oddly, my 5k PR 19:34 time was at sea level, and I was expecting it to be MUCH faster. I was actually hoping to break 19 so it would point to a sub 3 much more than it did. It still sucked, and it was still a PR. It just didn't seem like there was much "sea level benefit" or perhaps I was expecting much more.

                              Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.

                              VDOT 54.9

                              5k19:35 | Marathon 2:56:07

                              Marky_Mark_17


                                another note I just ordered a pair of Saucony Endorphin Speed 2 hope to have them on Wednesday.  I hope I can use them as a daily training shoe as well as for some up tempo workouts.

                                 

                                 

                                Keen to hear what you think of them.  I've got the Pro 2, which I haven't tried yet (got them on sale... they'll replace my NB Fuelcell TC's at some point in the not-too-distant future).

                                3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)  

                                10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)

                                * Net downhill course

                                Last race: Run Orewa 10km, 34:38 (1st) (Jan-22)

                                Up next: Run Devonport 10km, 7 Feb

                                "CONSISTENCY IS KING"