Upcoming marathon advice (Read 231 times)

You're pretty quick.

Frankly I'm a bit surprised you can handle workouts Tues, Thurs, Sat with a long run on Sunday.  That's a lot of faster work.

It's a little late in the game to really mess with things in terms of volume, so I won't suggest that.  What I would say is make Saturday an easy day with just some short (30sec-2min) pickups to a decent clip worked in throughout the run.  Instead, pool your efforts into the long run.  You are a bit short on distance in the long run given your obvious ability at shorter distances.  You can probably use some speed endurance work at the end of those long runs when you are getting tired.

Work up to 16-18 miles, ideally one at 20, with the longest run 3 weeks out from the marathon (you can still do a 15-16 miler 2 weeks out).  Add quality into them.  Start by picking it up to a solid tempo effort the last 4 miles, then last 6.  You can also try some fartleks (run 2-4 miles faster, recover for a mile, do it again, etc).  The goal is to get used to running quality fast work at the end of all of those miles.

Thanks for the quick reply!

im defiantly going To try some marathon paced runs incorporated in with Long runs, probably ditch Saturday tempo for a decent mid paced run it's has seemed to help me the last few weeks, and maybe get some mile reps in? should I stick to my usual intervals on Tuesday or up the volume or interval length? The thought of going that Long at speed is pretty daunting!!

As you've already been doing shorter intervals, I'd say 4-5Xmile on 3min jog recovery should be a good workout.  Even 3X 2mile with ~5min recovery as part of a medium-long run.

Typically for runners who can handle it, I'd use Tuesday for intervals, Thursday for a medium-long run of 12-14 miles that would include the week's faster-paced tempo work, and Sunday for the long run (which would also include quality every other week, or whenever the runner gets into the latter half and feels up to it).

The tempo work on Thursday included in that run can be longer, slower intervals (3X 2mile and such), fartlek such as 3X(8minON/4minOFF) or similar, or tempo runs up to 8 miles or so.  20min tempo runs are OK but you need to spend more time faster than MP.

Just out of curiosity what would you say would be a good training week for 5k-10k training I haven't done a flat 10k for a while but did 28:32 for 5mile the other week on a undulating course. do you think I would benefit from dropping one of my speed sessions? Would be good to have some advice of some one whoa done the times I'm aiming for

Total mileage depends on your history, ability, and a number of other factors so I won't give a number.  But in terms of general construction:

M-easy

T-intervals, 400-mile or mix thereof

W-easy but longer than Monday

R-Medium-long run with tempo/fartlek, or shorter run with faster tempo

F-easy

Sa-easy with some pickups/strides

Su-long; 14-16 miles for a 5K/10K focus

Frankly the only big differences between 5K/10K and marathon are shorter/faster intervals for the 5K/10K and a longer long run with more emphasis on the quality in the medium-long run for the marathon.  I ran my best 5K/10K off a marathon cycle.

This is general running-- the last 4-6 week before a goal race I'd tune more specifically to the race (a second interval session some weeks for the 5K instead of the medium-long run for example).

This is some great stuff you guys!   hope its ok to butt in & ask Spaniel a question.

Spaniel: on your first response you are suggesting OP to build Sun LR to 16-18-20 AND add quality ?  or did I misread?

A 17 min 5K runner, 20 min at 5k pace plus 30 sec must be quite a workout.

Spaniel:   thanks for the great explanation.  I like how you combine AK's current fitness based on his workouts, race times..  Your response (s) are definitely more specific for him.  You would offer different advice for  someone with less experience or lower level of fitness (like me, for example).  I have been able to do both together at times because of my consistency over last few years but at a much much lower level & slower upward progression.    Also like how you are thinking for the future & not just for one specific goal race like so many do.   I have some upcoming events that I want to do well at but keeping my mind on the possibility of running a marathon (have only done 1 about 30 yrs ago) next fall to celebarate my 60th Bday.  you always offer very good solid advance. thanks

Ak21: sorry to butt in & will now butt out. listen to Spaniel & good luck.

No worries every1 were all on here to get better a what we do!

Thanks for the advice my goal has shifted sum what but training plan is looking better than ever. got a few 5ks coming up and a goal 10k so it should keep me busy.

I was just wondering about pacing for easy and long runs as I read/hear so many different theory's about what benefits you. My easy pace is 1:30-1:45 slower than 5k and long run 1:40-1:50 slower iwould you say it should be a little faster? I'm not used to doing as many easy runs in a week and would feel like I wasn't doing enough to improve!

It's really hard to just throw a pace out there.  Currently my easy pace is in the 6:45-7:00 range, and my 5K pace probably somewhere around 5:20.  So 1:25-1:40 slower on easy runs.  I would also say I do my easy runs on the faster side of what most people do.  If you log-stalk on here hard enough you'd find people who race as fast as I do but their easy runs are 7:00-7:30.

I would say you probably don't need to do them any faster, and as you add more miles/runs you may even want to slow down some.  A few seconds/mile won't negate the benefit of the run, but it could save you from over-training or simply failing to recover in time for your next workout.

There is also a difference between an easy run and a true recovery run.  Yesterday I had a bad workout that I gutted through, and wanted to get the planned second run in but didn't want to dig myself into a hole.  So I went out and just jogged it very, very easy, and it ended up around 7:05.  For some the 10-15sec/mile slower that was than what a typical easy run would have been may not be much -- but for me it feels like a world of difference.

Long runs are a whole other ballgame.  It depends what you want to get out of it.  If all I care about is getting the time/distance in, or I am tired, or I'm not acclimated to the length of the run yet, I'll go out and do them at my typical easy run pace.  But I prefer to do some quality in there every other week or so.  Often I'll start out at an easy run pace, but then either do it as a progression or pick it up to MP or even faster during the later miles.  Or I may run it as a fartlek with faster tempo-type sections with easy sections in between (a tough example would be intervals of 5-4-3-2-1 miles at MP with a mile easy in between).  Mix it up.

A lot of sources will recommend to people doing long runs slower than easy pace.  That's for people trying to just finish a marathon who aren't running enough mileage to really be doing a marathon at all.  You've got the fitness, don't go down that road unless you need to do that to not over-extend yourself during a hard week.

MTA:  The key it to think about what purpose you are trying to fulfill with the run.  Every run should have a purpose, and every purpose should link back to a training objective.  If the run is supposed to just get miles in, run it easy and forget about pace -- going too fast is not the purpose, and goes against your training objective!  If the purpose of your long run is to develop strength and stamina to hold an effort over a long run, get the quality in there especially at the end.