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Carb deficit (Read 769 times)

    Yesterday was horrible. I've been doing phase one of the SouthBeach Diet (lean protein/cheese, no fruit, no bread,no rice/potatoe, etc) Well, I've been doing it for a week, with no real problems. Until I tried to run 7 miles yesterday. I knew something was wrong right away. I just felt like carp. I got to a point where I just couldn't run anymore. I was tired, winded, headache, etc. I even called DH, but told him I would try to walk it off... WEll, I managed to run again, but stopped about 4 more times.. When I got home, I collapsed and was really , really shakey. I tried to sleep, but couldn't. Finally, I started to feel a little better, and took a shower. But, ended up in the fetal position just exausted, with the water pouring down on me. When I came out, I went downstiaris, and ate a piece of pita bread and an apple.I felt better right away. In about 20 minutes, I was back to normal. Now, what's weird is, I was not starving myself at all. The night before , I had a huge piece of chicken, salad, and an avacado. 2 hours before my run, I had a handful of almonds and a few bites of cottage cheese. It was the carbs. I will never run on empty again.. This has only happended to me once before, several years ago. This mornings 5 miler was perfect. Must have been the 3 beers and rice I had with dinner!!!

    - Anya

    zoom-zoom


    rectumdamnnearkilledem

      I lose weight REALLY well on limited carbs...did Atkins for several years and lost 60#s. Got down to basically what is my goal weight now and I felt fantastic the entire time. My hypoglycemic issues were completely absent and it really suited me well. Then I fell off the wagon one year over the holidays, my calorie intake got back to out-of-control and I found myself back up 20#s. Running has helped me to stop the further increases, but it's still not helping me get the weight off, since it makes me so darned hungry. I need to find a happy medium of lower carbs with aerobic exercise (running). I know it exists, it's just a trick of finding what level of *healthy* carbs will allow me to run without bonking, but not entice my appetite into overdoing it on the calories. What if you skipped phase 1 of SB and went to the next level? That's still very healthy and lower-carb than the usual American diet. If I stuck to Atkins maintenance I'd probably be in good shape (no "white" or processed carbs, just whole foods).

      Getting the wind knocked out of you is the only way to

      remind your lungs how much they like the taste of air.    

           ~ Sarah Kay

      Trent


      Good Bad & The Monkey

        "Eat food. Not too much. Mostly plants."
        zoom-zoom


        rectumdamnnearkilledem

          "Eat food. Not too much. Mostly plants."
          Which ends up being pretty low-carb by itself. Big grin

          Getting the wind knocked out of you is the only way to

          remind your lungs how much they like the taste of air.    

               ~ Sarah Kay

            Kirsten, I'm actually a life time member of Weight Watchers ( lost 40 lbs 3 years ago ) but never got to my "personal goal" I have been in the low 130's, but shoot back up to the 140s at the drop of a dime. WW was not working for me anymore , that's why I am trying South Beach. The worst part, is breakfast. I normally eat ceral ( All Bran buds) NOw, its eggs! Gross.... What I love about WW, you can drink beer/wine, or eat anything, but you just have to stay within a certain point range. However, this is not always healthy. Since you can eat junk to a certain point. It freaked me out that I can't handle the really low carb diet, but maybe it's just something I need to get used to. I normally eat ceral for bfast, whole wheat pita sandwiches for lunch, and snack on melba toast,etc. Maybe I'm just a carb whore? Phase II , you're allowed more carbs. I've already blown it, so I"m not sure what to do next. You aren't supose to have any alcohol, and I blew that last night. Maybe I'll try my own variation of it.

            - Anya

            zoom-zoom


            rectumdamnnearkilledem

              Anya, my very favorite pre-race breakfast is a fried egg on a buttered whole wheat bagel...protein, fat, whole grain carbs. Good eats! Smile That said, I LOVE my eggs, cheese, meat, dairy. If I could never eat a specific type of food for the rest of my life I could give up grains much easier than I could meats/eggs/dairy. k

              Getting the wind knocked out of you is the only way to

              remind your lungs how much they like the taste of air.    

                   ~ Sarah Kay

                zoom zoom... my story too... atkins from 264 down to 180... then stopped low carb... gained +20# (205) and then started eating better.... running... I down to 160 now and feel really good... I have found a couple things... 1.) if I eat too much sugary stuff I get hungry... 2.) if I eat too much bad stuff (low nutritional value) I end up hungry 3.) Ii I don't drink enough water I get hungry. All that being said I don't think I could operate at a serious carb deficit and run. I would eat a small carb breakfast before you run... just my opinion... not sure 1/2 a bagel or a bannana pre-run is going to mess up the diet... especially on a 7 mile run immediately following... I'm not sure south beach or atkins is designed for folks doing intense excercise so IMHO you will need to either scale back the intensity of your excercise (not necessarily the durration) or modify the diet to allow for the intensity of your excercise. also I quit fighting the post long run hunger... instead I fight back... I would get hungry as could be for the two days after my long runs. So instead now I EAT after my long run. Good stuff like rice and beans and a fruit and veggies... and the hydrate like crazy... or nuts, tuna sandwich, raw carrots... I don't eat rediculas amounts... just a solid meal. Experiment... strange as it may seam if I eat some things that seam like they should be better for me it doesn't work out... ex: breakfast of Grapenuts Trail Mix Crunch (1.5 servings) will get me through to lunch with no hunger almost all the time... however a whole host of other cereals with less sugar, more protein, more whole grain, more fiber, yet the same calories seam to allow me to be hungry... My point is that if you set a reasonable goal of being at a 250-500 calorie deficit for the day and plan out your food fairly evenly dispersed throughout the day and you are still hungry... then try different foods... or more water... Just my 2 cents... Another thing I believe is in post run carbs... if I run long enough to approach or go beyond an hour I think eating carbs post run is important or I will be hungry for a while... not to mention all those 3:1 and 4:1 ratios of carbs to protein for optimal recovery... etc etc... as for alcohol... it gets metabolized first... the idea behind these carb restricted diets is to get your body to start metabolizing fat. If there is alcohol present it will be metabolized preforentially. The order is effectively (alcohol)--> carbs --> fat it is more complicated than that and it is a sliding scale... such that you are not metablizing only carbs then only fat .... etc... Oh one more thing zoom zoom it isn't just about finding the right balance of carbs , I also think it is about finding the right ones... honestly I think the reason that grapenuts trail mix crunch is so effective and others spark my hunger is because the new ones are new... and new flavors excite my brain... making me want to do it again... so I think stapels.. .things you regularly consume that your body is used to that don't stimulate pleasure centers of the brain... for me reducing the variety of my food really helps when I am trying to loose. same breakfast every day... one of 2 lunches... (right now that is... yogurt, bannana, flax... or tuna, nuts, raw carrots)... the variety is in my dinner... which is going to be focused around a vegtable or two. sorry for the length of this post... I just got writing and I can't decide what was too much and what might be usefull ...
                  Zoomie, I'm the complete opposite as you.. I could never give up the grains!!! I love eggwiches, but could never eat eggs everyday. I would rather have the big ol' bagel slathered with butter, and probably cream cheese too! Man, that sound good right now... hmmmm..

                  - Anya

                    I was doing the Original Atkins 1972 plan last July (even few carbs, if possible, then The New Atkins Diet Rev plan). When I started training in July...I could not even run 3 miles without stopping. When we did our first 5 mile run on the schedule, I walked after 1/4 mile. I had absolutely no energy. It was pathetic. I knew right away what the cause was. I added carbs back immediately after that....and ran a 7 miler then next weekend with no problem.
                    Dorsey

                    San Diego 1997: 4:59:59, San Diego 1999: 4:37:23, Carlsbad 2008: 6:32:21, America's Finest City Half Aug 2008: ??

                    "Run if you can. Walk if you must. Crawl if you have to. Just don't give up."
                    zoom-zoom


                    rectumdamnnearkilledem

                      The thing that intrigues me is that there are folks who are on ketogenic diets and run marathons...and run them well (ie under 4 hours). I can't wrap my brain around how that works, but it fascinates me that it does for some folks. It's something that I'd definitely love to learn more about.

                      Getting the wind knocked out of you is the only way to

                      remind your lungs how much they like the taste of air.    

                           ~ Sarah Kay

                      JakeKnight


                        My experience with low-carb diets (or any diets, for that matter) is very limited, but it's enough to make me baffled that any runner would try it. A long, long time ago, back when the low-carb thing was the latest craze, I tried it. I was heavier than I am now, and dropped ten pounds almost instantly. It was great. At the time I was heavily into martial arts. One night I went to a work-out, sure I would feel great since I was skinner and healthier. As you can guess from the posts of others above, the opposite happened - I had no energy at all. I could barely lift my hands and legs. It was maybe the most miserable couple hours of my life. I never tried that again. I personally don't think any diet that strictly limits one type of food is very smart, especially for an athlete. I think the basic rules still work best: eat less, eat healthy, eat a balanced diet, eat your veggies, move a lot more. Basically, if I have to read a book on the diet - or if it had its own "Oprah" episode - its not for me. The thought of actually trying to RUN any distance at all while doing one of those low-carb diets sounds miserable. If I were you, I'd simplify the diet - take Trent's stolen advice up there - and run more. Work up to a steady 30-35 miles per week or more. In my experience, that's the way to amazing results. No book required.

                        E-mail: eric.fuller.mail@gmail.com
                        -----------------------------


                        A is A

                          I'm a dieter, too. Well, I'm a calorie counter with good eating habits; I just have a tendency to eat too much. I have lost 35 lbs since May just restricting calories and eating a balanced diet. I have discovered along the way many of the things jsobo listed, but, I stay away from carbs in the morning; this is sure way to stay hungry throughout the day. So... I always eat my carbs in the middle of the day or in the evening and get a good amount of protein + fat in the morning. This works very well for me. It's amazing how much this controls my appetite and cravings and I still feel totally energetic and alert. Two scrambled eggs (throw in some spinach, a bell pepper, avodaco, etc if I feel like it) or a small protein shake is more than enough to get me to lunch, easily, plus doing this I find I can be satisfied with less than 1400 Cals/day (too low! please eat more than this). If I eat cereal, forget it, my day is shot. I also find that eating protein before an early-in-the-day run is the best way to make it though a two hour session without getting hungry, staying strong to the end. I tried South Beach for a week. I felt sick the whole time. I don't think it's a good diet for people who are highly active. Although some runner do swear by it, I have never found low-carb to be any good. My calorie counting site is: caloriecount.about.com Calorie counting provides one with a similar methodology to Weight Watchers but let's you have more control. It works best for people who have good eating habits but may need more accountability -- like me. Best wishes.
                            I also had great initial success on Atkins. But it is such a pain in the ass its nearly impossible to keep up over any length of time. And, for me it dominated my life. And I didnt feel really good eating all that cheese and beef. And there were no snacks I liked. Funny when I started running without intentionally doing it I went into exercise-induced ketosis. If youve done Atkins--you can recognize this by the sweet taste in your mouth. At first I thought it was awesome because I was burning fat while running..but I felt like crap. It really isnt good for you, and can be dangerous. So, I just focused on cutting out the access. I probably eat a lowish amount of carbs--but try to focus on calories now. I figure if I burn more calories than I take in, I will lose weight.


                            The Greatest of All Time

                              I went through something similar about 13 years ago when I re-discovered running. I was on a pretty restrictive diet at the time so I was fine if I was running shorter distances (<5 miles), but when i tried to go longer i would bonk due to lack of fuel in the tank. i had to adjust my calorie and carb intake to meet my distance running requirements. it takes a little fine tuning and knowing your body but that's about it. when i was in college (98-02) i was a very competitive triathlete up to ironman distance and there was no way i could have trained at the level i was used to (near elite distances and intensity) on a carb restricted diet. during the summer of 1999 i was training for ironman florida while living in austin, texas and all i can remember about that summer was being hot, hungry, and tired...all the time. i was either recovering from a workout or getting ready for another one. based on my education (biochemistry) and experiences as a competitive endurance athlete i think i have a better than average understanding of sport's nutrition and i have an opinion about carb restricted diets such as atkins and here it is: a true atkins diet might work on sedentary individuals but i honestly feel they are not appropriate for endurance athletes. you might be able to run slowly on atkins but you cannot run fast for very long on that diet. and i would be shocked to learn of any professional endurance athlete or even a shorter distance runner that uses atkins during racing season!! i honestly don't think it's possible. now to get completely off-topic...i think post-workout meals are often overlooked so here is a rant...sorry! over the years i have made dietary modifications as required by my activity level and goals. i currently run at least 50 miles a week, do resistance training twice a week, and about 2 hours of other random cardio at the gym and the only time i go out of my way to eat sugar is right after a workout and the harder i went the more sugar i eat. i have also found that taking in protein along with the sugar post-workout is great because i recover quicker from very intense workouts. the protein/sugar post-workout concept was advanced by bodybuilders but is applicable to all athletes where you have done damage to muscle cells during a workout. simply put, the sugar (high glycemic carb) causes your body to release more insulin. during the post-workout period (up to 1 hour) your muscles are more sensitive to insulin and during that time insulin helps move amino acids from the protein into your muscle cells, thereby speeding up your recovery process. at any other time, an increase in insulin is a bad thing because it promotes fat storage along with cortisol. however, during the post-workout period more insulin is good, assuming there is some protein availabe for the insulin to work with. this is why some bodybuilders inject themselves with insulin when they finish working out (this is highly dangerous). it's funny that this approach is now supported in the literature because when i was training for the ironman back in 1999 i always had a very large glass of chocolate milk after every long or hard run and every long bike ride. i was listening to my body and it definitely wanted protein due to the muscle damage and replenishing the carbs was a no brainer. these days powerbar makes a post-workout drink that nutritionally is very similar to chocolate skim milk. i have used whey protein in skim milk with dextrose too. also met-rx big 100 bars work well (27g protein, 51g carb of which 25g is sugar). i think the ideal ratio of carb to protein is 2:1. back then before a long run or ride i always ate a bowl of grape nuts with skim milk and then took in gatorade and gels along the way as needed. you can always eat a package of sugar free or low sugar oatmeal as well prior to a run. run hard! miles),="" but="" when="" i="" tried="" to="" go="" longer="" i="" would="" bonk="" due="" to="" lack="" of="" fuel="" in="" the="" tank.="" i="" had="" to="" adjust="" my="" calorie="" and="" carb="" intake="" to="" meet="" my="" distance="" running="" requirements.="" it="" takes="" a="" little="" fine="" tuning="" and="" knowing="" your="" body="" but="" that's="" about="" it.="" when="" i="" was="" in="" college="" (98-02)="" i="" was="" a="" very="" competitive="" triathlete="" up="" to="" ironman="" distance="" and="" there="" was="" no="" way="" i="" could="" have="" trained="" at="" the="" level="" i="" was="" used="" to="" (near="" elite="" distances="" and="" intensity)="" on="" a="" carb="" restricted="" diet.="" during="" the="" summer="" of="" 1999="" i="" was="" training="" for="" ironman="" florida="" while="" living="" in="" austin,="" texas="" and="" all="" i="" can="" remember="" about="" that="" summer="" was="" being="" hot,="" hungry,="" and="" tired...all="" the="" time.="" i="" was="" either="" recovering="" from="" a="" workout="" or="" getting="" ready="" for="" another="" one.="" based="" on="" my="" education="" (biochemistry)="" and="" experiences="" as="" a="" competitive="" endurance="" athlete="" i="" think="" i="" have="" a="" better="" than="" average="" understanding="" of="" sport's="" nutrition="" and="" i="" have="" an="" opinion="" about="" carb="" restricted="" diets="" such="" as="" atkins="" and="" here="" it="" is:="" a="" true="" atkins="" diet="" might="" work="" on="" sedentary="" individuals="" but="" i="" honestly="" feel="" they="" are="" not="" appropriate="" for="" endurance="" athletes.="" you="" might="" be="" able="" to="" run="" slowly="" on="" atkins="" but="" you="" cannot="" run="" fast="" for="" very="" long="" on="" that="" diet.="" and="" i="" would="" be="" shocked="" to="" learn="" of="" any="" professional="" endurance="" athlete="" or="" even="" a="" shorter="" distance="" runner="" that="" uses="" atkins="" during="" racing="" season!!="" i="" honestly="" don't="" think="" it's="" possible.="" now="" to="" get="" completely="" off-topic...i="" think="" post-workout="" meals="" are="" often="" overlooked="" so="" here="" is="" a="" rant...sorry!="" over="" the="" years="" i="" have="" made="" dietary="" modifications="" as="" required="" by="" my="" activity="" level="" and="" goals.="" i="" currently="" run="" at="" least="" 50="" miles="" a="" week,="" do="" resistance="" training="" twice="" a="" week,="" and="" about="" 2="" hours="" of="" other="" random="" cardio="" at="" the="" gym="" and="" the="" only="" time="" i="" go="" out="" of="" my="" way="" to="" eat="" sugar="" is="" right="" after="" a="" workout="" and="" the="" harder="" i="" went="" the="" more="" sugar="" i="" eat.="" i="" have="" also="" found="" that="" taking="" in="" protein="" along="" with="" the="" sugar="" post-workout="" is="" great="" because="" i="" recover="" quicker="" from="" very="" intense="" workouts.="" the="" protein/sugar="" post-workout="" concept="" was="" advanced="" by="" bodybuilders="" but="" is="" applicable="" to="" all="" athletes="" where="" you="" have="" done="" damage="" to="" muscle="" cells="" during="" a="" workout.="" simply="" put,="" the="" sugar="" (high="" glycemic="" carb)="" causes="" your="" body="" to="" release="" more="" insulin.="" during="" the="" post-workout="" period="" (up="" to="" 1="" hour)="" your="" muscles="" are="" more="" sensitive="" to="" insulin="" and="" during="" that="" time="" insulin="" helps="" move="" amino="" acids="" from="" the="" protein="" into="" your="" muscle="" cells,="" thereby="" speeding="" up="" your="" recovery="" process.="" at="" any="" other="" time,="" an="" increase="" in="" insulin="" is="" a="" bad="" thing="" because="" it="" promotes="" fat="" storage="" along="" with="" cortisol.="" however,="" during="" the="" post-workout="" period="" more="" insulin="" is="" good,="" assuming="" there="" is="" some="" protein="" availabe="" for="" the="" insulin="" to="" work="" with.="" this="" is="" why="" some="" bodybuilders="" inject="" themselves="" with="" insulin="" when="" they="" finish="" working="" out="" (this="" is="" highly="" dangerous).="" it's="" funny="" that="" this="" approach="" is="" now="" supported="" in="" the="" literature="" because="" when="" i="" was="" training="" for="" the="" ironman="" back="" in="" 1999="" i="" always="" had="" a="" very="" large="" glass="" of="" chocolate="" milk="" after="" every="" long="" or="" hard="" run="" and="" every="" long="" bike="" ride.="" i="" was="" listening="" to="" my="" body="" and="" it="" definitely="" wanted="" protein="" due="" to="" the="" muscle="" damage="" and="" replenishing="" the="" carbs="" was="" a="" no="" brainer.="" these="" days="" powerbar="" makes="" a="" post-workout="" drink="" that="" nutritionally="" is="" very="" similar="" to="" chocolate="" skim="" milk.="" i="" have="" used="" whey="" protein="" in="" skim="" milk="" with="" dextrose="" too.="" also="" met-rx="" big="" 100="" bars="" work="" well="" (27g="" protein,="" 51g="" carb="" of="" which="" 25g="" is="" sugar).="" i="" think="" the="" ideal="" ratio="" of="" carb="" to="" protein="" is="" 2:1.="" back="" then="" before="" a="" long="" run="" or="" ride="" i="" always="" ate="" a="" bowl="" of="" grape="" nuts="" with="" skim="" milk="" and="" then="" took="" in="" gatorade="" and="" gels="" along="" the="" way="" as="" needed.="" you="" can="" always="" eat="" a="" package="" of="" sugar="" free="" or="" low="" sugar="" oatmeal="" as="" well="" prior="" to="" a="" run.="" run=""></5 miles), but when i tried to go longer i would bonk due to lack of fuel in the tank. i had to adjust my calorie and carb intake to meet my distance running requirements. it takes a little fine tuning and knowing your body but that's about it. when i was in college (98-02) i was a very competitive triathlete up to ironman distance and there was no way i could have trained at the level i was used to (near elite distances and intensity) on a carb restricted diet. during the summer of 1999 i was training for ironman florida while living in austin, texas and all i can remember about that summer was being hot, hungry, and tired...all the time. i was either recovering from a workout or getting ready for another one. based on my education (biochemistry) and experiences as a competitive endurance athlete i think i have a better than average understanding of sport's nutrition and i have an opinion about carb restricted diets such as atkins and here it is: a true atkins diet might work on sedentary individuals but i honestly feel they are not appropriate for endurance athletes. you might be able to run slowly on atkins but you cannot run fast for very long on that diet. and i would be shocked to learn of any professional endurance athlete or even a shorter distance runner that uses atkins during racing season!! i honestly don't think it's possible. now to get completely off-topic...i think post-workout meals are often overlooked so here is a rant...sorry! over the years i have made dietary modifications as required by my activity level and goals. i currently run at least 50 miles a week, do resistance training twice a week, and about 2 hours of other random cardio at the gym and the only time i go out of my way to eat sugar is right after a workout and the harder i went the more sugar i eat. i have also found that taking in protein along with the sugar post-workout is great because i recover quicker from very intense workouts. the protein/sugar post-workout concept was advanced by bodybuilders but is applicable to all athletes where you have done damage to muscle cells during a workout. simply put, the sugar (high glycemic carb) causes your body to release more insulin. during the post-workout period (up to 1 hour) your muscles are more sensitive to insulin and during that time insulin helps move amino acids from the protein into your muscle cells, thereby speeding up your recovery process. at any other time, an increase in insulin is a bad thing because it promotes fat storage along with cortisol. however, during the post-workout period more insulin is good, assuming there is some protein availabe for the insulin to work with. this is why some bodybuilders inject themselves with insulin when they finish working out (this is highly dangerous). it's funny that this approach is now supported in the literature because when i was training for the ironman back in 1999 i always had a very large glass of chocolate milk after every long or hard run and every long bike ride. i was listening to my body and it definitely wanted protein due to the muscle damage and replenishing the carbs was a no brainer. these days powerbar makes a post-workout drink that nutritionally is very similar to chocolate skim milk. i have used whey protein in skim milk with dextrose too. also met-rx big 100 bars work well (27g protein, 51g carb of which 25g is sugar). i think the ideal ratio of carb to protein is 2:1. back then before a long run or ride i always ate a bowl of grape nuts with skim milk and then took in gatorade and gels along the way as needed. you can always eat a package of sugar free or low sugar oatmeal as well prior to a run. run hard!>
                              all you touch and all you see, is all your life will ever be

                              Obesity is a disease. Yes, a disease where nothing tastes bad...except salads.