McMillan vs. Yasso 800's (Read 4007 times)

I think I have a pretty good understanding of the purpose of these tools for runners, and just as important the limitations to their use. McMillan - Use recent race time to provide training paces but also suggest equivalent times for other distances. Yasso 800's - A Marathon pace prediction workout.10 - 800M in 4:00 (mins/sec), with 4:00 rest in between would suggest a 4:00 (hr/min) marathon. 3 min45sec 800's would suggest 3hr45min marathon,,, and so on. I know these are all just guidelines and the caveat is that you have done the appropriate training for the distance you are running. But to me the numbers don't make sense. I've been running for 20 years and will be doing my first 26.2 this spring. My goal is 4:00 (yea I know, my goal should to just finish). In any event, I enjoy the track and want to have some fun and have read about Yasso's for years. McMillan tells me that a 4 hr marathoner should be able to run 5 miles at 8:07 pace. (which, by the way I know I can do). So, how can running 5 miles worth of 800's at a 4 minute pace, and a 4 minute rest in between be anything but easy? In my situation, I don't think a Yasso workout would provide much confidence in pacing at all. Do you think Yasso is out of wack? Do you thik McMillan's equavalent paces for distances so diverse as 5 miles and marathon are equally suspect. Comments appreciated. Thanks

Yasso 800s are NOT predictors of race ability. They are a fitness assessment. The Yasso workout is designed to test your current marathon training to see if your goal time is doable based on your fitness, not the other way around. If your marathon goal is a 3:30, you would go to the track, and run the 800s in 3:30 each. If you can complete the workout, then you should be fairly confident that the goal time is attainable. Yasso 800s are not meant to be done as a predictor.

Yasso 800s are NOT predictors of race ability. ...If you can complete the workout, then you should be fairly confident that the goal time is attainable. Yasso 800s are not meant to be done as a predictor.

3 snaps in z-formation for Scout, but I would take further to say that following regarding Yasso's: •If you can complete the Yasso workout, good for you, but it's no guarantee your goal time is attainable. •If you cannot complete the Yasso workout, your marathon goal is almost certainly not attainable. OP: you are correct about the caveat is that you need to have done the appropriate training for the distance you are running. McMillan's calculator (as well as Daniel's VDOT and others) provide fairly reasonable values so long as you accept this caveat. The reality is that (in the 4 hour example) there are a ton of people who can run a 24:37 5k who couldn't do a 4-hour marathon because of the immense aerobic base needed for the marathon. MTA: see this post for a list of other running calculator resources.

By the way, I've never heard that you should be taking full recoveries equal to your rep times. Is that accurate? Four minutes is a helluva rest. I suspect a lot of people could pull that off who'd never make a 4:00 marathon..

JK: absolutely correct about the rest time. It's equal to the recovery, which is really pretty long when you start talking about 4:00 reps. The world is full of people who could do 10x800 in 4:00 with 4:00 rest and not do a 4:00 marathon. Hell, I could do 10x800 and skip the rests entirely (i.e. run 5 miles at 8:00 pace) with no difficulty and not do a 4-hour marathon. Why? Because I only run about 23 miles a week with no long run. The big problem is that Yasso's are sold as a predictor. See Amby Burfoot's original article on Yasso 800's. I seem to remember reading that Yasso himself has backed away from the "predictive" capabilities of his eponymous workout, but the damage has been done. MTA: It's still a good workout. Even marathoners could benefit from a workout that involves reps that are 12.1% faster than marathon goal pace and 7.4% faster than threshold pace. It's just has flaws as a predictor.

Yasso will be especially skewed for people that compete in distance events, but possess good natural speed. There's a ton of collegate athletes that could manage 10 x 800 in 2:10, but struggle to complete a marathon in anything faster than 2:40.

It also seem to be way off for guys who are into llamas. Go figure...

Llamas are stuck back in 2007. The Emus staged a coup and have taken over.

The emu is funnier than the llama. I can't wait til next year.

Thanks for the replies The question really was about how two tools could be so at odds with one another (McMillan and Yasso). I guess I did not get that across very well. Nevertheless, I did use the search and couldn't find that specific topic. From my search, I also realize you don't need another bothersome Yasso post. Later

short answer The McMillan is predicting your best race effort. The Yasso is prescribing a workout. Comparing the 5 mile race to the 800 m workout isnt valid.