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Fatty liver (Read 1284 times)

Fruchtenstein


    One can post anything on the internet.  That you saw it does not mean it has any validity.

     

    On the other hand, being posted on the internet does not automatically turn a piece of information into nonsense.

     

    Is this all what you can say on the topic? I should have asked on a hepatology forum Smile

    Trent


    Good Bad & The Monkey

      Well, your point is valid.


      However, there is not a clear biologically plausible reason why running would cause NASH.  You have posted no actual studies or even case reports.  Rather, you have posted random links to unreliable medical opinions on the web.  So, in THIS case, there is no preponderance of evidence in support of the concern.

      Trent


      Good Bad & The Monkey

        Here is a reliable medical resource.  I did not see running in the list of associated conditions.

        xor


          Today's sushi included "fatty tuna" (aka 'toro')

           

          Of course, toro made me think of 1) bull and 2) liver and 3) this thread.

           

          Yum.  Fatty liver nigiri.

           

          Trent


          Good Bad & The Monkey

            And looking briefly in PubMed, there are a grand total of three published studies looking at this question.  They are ALL in rats.  In ALL three studies, exercise was associated with a lower risk of NASH.


            For example.

             

            So not only is there no biologic plausibility, but the current preponderance of evidence points the exact opposite direction.

            localoutoftowner


              Today's sushi included "fatty tuna" (aka 'toro')

               

              Of course, toro made me think of 1) bull and 2) liver and 3) this thread.

               

              Yum.  Fatty liver nigiri.

               

              4) The Texans Mascot.

              Fruchtenstein


                Trent, thank you for these links! Anyway, neither of them deals specifically with long distance running, AFAIU.

                 

                As for the plausibility of this effect, I've found an article in the medical encyclopedia that describes exactly this mechanism: increase of the fat intake by the liver may be caused (among many other things) by the depletion of glycogen reserves. The article is in Russian, but here's an abstract from Pubmed that seems (to my uneducated eye) to support this idea: 

                http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6131081

                Trent


                Good Bad & The Monkey

                  That article (18 years old) also has nothing to do with distance running and studies the whether acute glycogen depletion can be induced in Monkeys (heh). To wit, the finding was: "Acute glycogen depletion without significant change in fat was induced ". It is a small theoretical study.  But again, it finds exactly the opposite outcome as NASH.

                  Fruchtenstein


                    18 years old, so what? Newton's laws are even older Smile. I found another excerpt more interesting: "In rhesus monkeys an increase in liver glycogen induced by glucose loading was accompanied by an increase in attenuation values on computed tomography and a decrease in total liver fat. Conversely, fasting depleted glycogen, increased fat, and decreased liver attenuation".

                    So, high liver glycogen decreases fat. Low liver glycogen is replaced with fat. It does not happen quickly, I assume, but still...

                    Trent


                    Good Bad & The Monkey

                      fasting ≠ distance running


                      The point about the study's age is that an isolated study from 2 decades before with no subsequent studies to support it implies that it is not supportable by a preponderance of subsequent evidence.

                       

                      Newton's laws have been meticulously challenged and supported with study after study after study for centuries.  Some of the studies are important empirical studies published into the peer reviewed literature, while others are the simple, easily observable experiments that kindergardeners can do.  In contrast, NASH following distance running, apparently, has not been reported even in a single study that either of us has found, not a single one, and is not easily observable by a kindergardener.

                       

                      Plus. Fasting ≠ distance running

                       

                      Plus. Acute glycogen depletion without significant change in fat was induce.

                       

                      Plus. as much as many feel otherwise, rhesus monkeys ≠ humans.

                        18 years old, so what? Newton's laws are even older Smile. I found another excerpt more interesting: "In rhesus monkeys an increase in liver glycogen induced by glucose loading was accompanied by an increase in attenuation values on computed tomography and a decrease in total liver fat. Conversely, fasting depleted glycogen, increased fat, and decreased liver attenuation".

                        So, high liver glycogen decreases fat. Low liver glycogen is replaced with fat. It does not happen quickly, I assume, but still...

                        Why are you trying to insist that running is going to hurt your liver?  Is that the answer you're seeking?  Trent is a real doctor (so I hear) and, if I have some sort of issue and, but no apparent problem with running and I want to continue running, happen to come across some on-line information that it MAY cause some liver problem; then a runner/doctor came on the message board, giving you a free diagnose (no liability either though), telling you that there's nothing to worry about....if I were you, I would just forget about the issue and go right back to running freely.

                         

                        There are some people who embraces misery.  They seek negativity in life.  They seek reason not to do things.  My grandma was like that.  She was always sick and, if she didn't have anything, she would go see the doctor to find something wrong with her.  I believe in 1980s there was a period when people talked about this oxydation--oxygen is what kills cells.  So, by running, we are inceasing the amount of oxygen we're taking in to our body; therefore, running, or any form of exercise, is bad for you.  I'm sure those people had embrace the news of, what, 3 people dying in the half marathon last year.  Look, 3 peopld dropped dead while running (out of millions of people out there running); see how dangerous running can be!!?  If that's you, running may not be the activity for you. 


                        A Saucy Wench

                          Echo...If you want to cap your running at 20K then cap it at 20K.  It's your running. But I dont think you are going to a) find validation here that you NEED to do that or b) convince anyone else.  Own it.

                          I have become Death, the destroyer of electronic gadgets

                           

                          "When I got too tired to run anymore I just pretended I wasnt tired and kept running anyway" - dd, age 7

                          Trent


                          Good Bad & The Monkey

                          xor


                            18 years old, so what? Newton's laws are even older Smile. I found another excerpt more interesting: "In rhesus monkeys an increase in liver glycogen induced by glucose loading was accompanied by an increase in attenuation values on computed tomography and a decrease in total liver fat. Conversely, fasting depleted glycogen, increased fat, and decreased liver attenuation".

                            So, high liver glycogen decreases fat. Low liver glycogen is replaced with fat. It does not happen quickly, I assume, but still...

                             

                            No no no.

                             


                            #artbydmcbride

                               

                              Runners run

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