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Do you dropout of the marathon when you are having a bad day? (Read 254 times)

runnerswhirled


     

    Ummm, maybe you should’ve run your own race rather than blame others.

     

    and

     

    Relax, we are all just joggers.

     

    how fitting.  these two posts couldn't have done a better job encapsulating runner's world.

       

      I've also noted that dropping out of a marathon tends to send people into a bad mental spiral, and they then frequently are head cases in their next few races.  Not universally, but it does happen, especially if the DNF wasn't due to an undeniable injury or interruption.  Finishing the damn race avoids that issue.

       

       

      Great insight.  It doesn't just happen for marathon racing.  I dropped out of a mile race once and was a complete head case thereafter for quite a while...  Yes, I was taking myself too seriously.  But it was competition with myself, and I was failing in a spectacular way, and it hurt.

       

      No, we are *not* just joggers here.  We are passionate about RUNNING.  Why else would so many spend so much time on this Running Message Board?   It is not wrong to care deeply about a hobby.

       

      It is interesting to read the perspectives from all levels/speeds of runners including the ones who are FAST.  Spaniel's frustration with the pacers during his marathon is one that many runners can relate to.  I mean, how many people have been gunning for a BQ needing that extra edge and been led astray by bad pacing?  Yes, we could "run our own race" but isn't that what we were using the pacers for anyway, to help us get that extra edge to achieve something that is a stretch goal?  A decision to drop out to "live and fight another day" may be prudent with these long term goals in mind.

      "Shut up Legs!" Jens Voigt

      Mikkey


      Mmmm Bop

         

        It is interesting to read the perspectives from all levels/speeds of runners including the ones who are FAST.  Spaniel's frustration with the pacers during his marathon is one that many runners can relate to.  I mean, how many people have been gunning for a BQ needing that extra edge and been led astray by bad pacing?  Yes, we could "run our own race" but isn't that what we were using the pacers for anyway, to help us get that extra edge to achieve something that is a stretch goal?  A decision to drop out to "live and fight another day" may be prudent with these long term goals in mind.

         

        Spaniel’s response was so over the top that it actually made me laugh. Nobody can relate to his experience because he’s soo fast! There are people in the same boat who might want to run a Sub3/3:30/4:00 or whatever and then blame the pacers if it goes wrong because they start out too quick.

         

        A runner from my old club came 3rd at my local marathon last month with a 2:18. He never made any secret that he his goal was Sub2:19 and was banging out loads of 5:16 miles on a regular basis every week. He trained for that pace and then delivered on race day with an even split. No whining or excuses...AND he’s 42yo!

        5k - 17:53 (4/19)   10k - 37:53 (11/18)   Half - 1:23:18 (4/19)   Full - 2:50:43 (4/19)

        runnerswhirled


           No whining or excuses...AND he’s 42yo!

           

          so a guy that made his goal doesn't have excuses for why he didn't make his goal?  makes sense.

          Mikkey


          Mmmm Bop

             

            so a guy that made his goal doesn't have excuses for why he didn't make his goal?  makes sense.

             

            How about posting under your real screename, whirly.

            5k - 17:53 (4/19)   10k - 37:53 (11/18)   Half - 1:23:18 (4/19)   Full - 2:50:43 (4/19)

            runnerswhirled


               

              How about posting under your real screename, whirly.

               

              this is my real screenname dude.

               

              if i had a different one would that change how illogical your post was?

               

              to quote another dude:

               

               

              ITT: Very sensitive people

              Mikkey


              Mmmm Bop

                 

                this is my real screenname dude.

                 

                if i had a different one would that change how illogical your post was?

                 

                to quote another dude:

                 

                 

                 

                whirly, you are starting to entertain me Smile

                5k - 17:53 (4/19)   10k - 37:53 (11/18)   Half - 1:23:18 (4/19)   Full - 2:50:43 (4/19)

                darkwave


                Mother of Cats

                   

                  Spaniel’s response was so over the top that it actually made me laugh. Nobody can relate to his experience because he’s soo fast! There are people in the same boat who might want to run a Sub3/3:30/4:00 or whatever and then blame the pacers if it goes wrong because they start out too quick.

                   

                   

                  Here's where I do think targeting a sub-2:19 (or whatever it was back then) is different from sub-3/sub-3:30/sub-4.

                   

                  Regardless of pace level, most of us run our best when we have people around us at our pace, as long as it's not so many that it's too crowded.

                   

                  And...the faster your goal time, the less likely it is that you will have other people to run with, and the more important it is to have a designated group that will be targeting that sub-2:19.

                   

                  For me, when I was targeting sub-3, it was easy to let the 3 hour (and 3:05 and 3:10...) pace groups pull ahead at the beginning when they went out too fast.  I knew I'd have plenty of company regardless - a steady stream of people I could reel in as I chased those pace groups down after the first few miles.

                   

                  But...for someone chasing 2:19, letting that pace group go at the start would mean running a good chunk of the race solo.  Thus, a hard choice between a) hanging with a group that went out too fast or b) running a solo time trial.

                  Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

                   

                  And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

                  Mikkey


                  Mmmm Bop

                     

                    But...for someone chasing 2:19, letting that pace group go at the start would mean running a good chunk of the race solo.  Thus, a hard choice between a) hanging with a group that went out too fast or b) running a solo time trial.

                     

                    It’s unfortunate that the pacers let the group down....but dropping back early would’ve been better than running with a group that’s going out  10sec/mile faster than goal pace...give yourself half a chance rather than no chance. That was my point in the first place, he wasn’t forced to stay with the group. And of course that’s the same at any level in a marathon...start to bank time early and you’ll pay it back double in the second half.

                     

                    It was a group of 30 so I’m surprised that everyone went along with it rather than form a slower group when it became apparent that the pacers were messing up. Then reel in the runners who stayed with the pacers. Also, it was at a Major marathon so it’s not exactly a solo time trial in country lanes with no crowd support or atmosphere.

                    5k - 17:53 (4/19)   10k - 37:53 (11/18)   Half - 1:23:18 (4/19)   Full - 2:50:43 (4/19)

                    darkwave


                    Mother of Cats

                       

                      It’s unfortunate that the pacers let the group down....but dropping back early would’ve been better than running with a group that’s going out  10sec/mile faster than goal pace...give yourself half a chance rather than no chance. That was my point in the first place, he wasn’t forced to stay with the group.

                       

                       

                      Absolutely agreed on that point.  I always tell myself when I start to get sucked out too fast in workouts or races that nobody is responsible for the pace I am running except me.

                       

                      I'm not saying that he made the right decision to stay with the pacers.  What I am proposing is that the decision of whether to stick with the pacers involves different trade-offs at different paces.  Racing a sub-2:20 marathon, or even a sub-2:30 marathon, is a very different thing from racing a sub-2:45 or a sub-3:00, which in turn are very different from racing a sub-4.  Each is a very difficult thing, but the different races are run at different intensity levels, and can play out very differently in terms of finding people to run with, etc.

                       

                       

                      Also, it was at a Major marathon so it’s not exactly a solo time trial in country lanes with no crowd support or atmosphere.

                       

                      Yes, but even so, it's much harder to run by yourself than with a group.  When big races like Cherry Blossom, Boston, etc offer a separate women's elite start, it's understood that there's a trade-off to going with the elite start - if you end up isolated, you are unlikely to run the time you would have run starting with the masses, and all the crowd support and atmosphere isn't going to make up for the lack of company.

                      Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

                       

                      And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

                      Mikkey


                      Mmmm Bop

                         

                         

                        Absolutely agreed on that point.  I always tell myself when I start to get sucked out too fast in workouts or races that nobody is responsible for the pace I am running except me.

                         

                        I'm not saying that he made the right decision to stay with the pacers.  What I am proposing is that the decision of whether to stick with the pacers involves different trade-offs at different paces.  Racing a sub-2:20 marathon, or even a sub-2:30 marathon, is a very different thing from racing a sub-2:45 or a sub-3:00, which in turn are very different from racing a sub-4.  Each is a very difficult thing, but the different races are run at different intensity levels, and can play out very differently in terms of finding people to run with, etc.

                         

                         

                        Yes, but even so, it's much harder to run by yourself than with a group.  When big races like Cherry Blossom, Boston, etc offer a separate women's elite start, it's understood that there's a trade-off to going with the elite start - if you end up isolated, you are unlikely to run the time you would have run starting with the masses, and all the crowd support and atmosphere isn't going to make up for the lack of company.

                         

                        Well neither of us know what it’s like to race at that level, but I do respect your opinion. 👍

                         

                        I personally don’t think Spaniel was close to a OTQ in the first place and blaming the pacers was a convenient excuse.

                        5k - 17:53 (4/19)   10k - 37:53 (11/18)   Half - 1:23:18 (4/19)   Full - 2:50:43 (4/19)


                        Feeling the growl again

                           

                          It’s unfortunate that the pacers let the group down....but dropping back early would’ve been better than running with a group that’s going out  10sec/mile faster than goal pace...give yourself half a chance rather than no chance. That was my point in the first place, he wasn’t forced to stay with the group. And of course that’s the same at any level in a marathon...start to bank time early and you’ll pay it back double in the second half.

                           

                          It was a group of 30 so I’m surprised that everyone went along with it rather than form a slower group when it became apparent that the pacers were messing up. Then reel in the runners who stayed with the pacers. Also, it was at a Major marathon so it’s not exactly a solo time trial in country lanes with no crowd support or atmosphere.

                           

                          <<post deleted -- done engaging the ignorance of a 2:50 marathoner critiquing an experience they have never been in.>>

                           

                          After a few years absence I had hoped this site had improved but has apparently never recovered from the Runners World onslaught.  With this sort of negativity in my first week back, happy running y'all, I'm out.

                          "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

                           

                          I am spaniel - Crusher of Treadmills

                           

                          Mikkey


                          Mmmm Bop

                             

                            <<post deleted -- done engaging the ignorance of a 2:50 marathoner critiquing an experience they have never been in.>>

                             

                            After a few years absence I had hoped this site had improved but has apparently never recovered from the Runners World onslaught.  With this sort of negativity in my first week back, happy running y'all, I'm out.

                             

                            So you don’t like me having an opinion on something I know nothing about....and then leave blaming Runnersworld?

                             

                            I find that a bit weird....I don’t represent Runnersworld as all the “RW refugees” are different. I treat everyone individually regardless of whatever site they used to post in. Ignore the people you don’t respect and embrace the people that are positive to your running.

                            5k - 17:53 (4/19)   10k - 37:53 (11/18)   Half - 1:23:18 (4/19)   Full - 2:50:43 (4/19)

                               

                               

                               

                              After a few years absence I had hoped this site had improved

                               

                              You've been missed and I hope you and your family have been well.

                              "Famous last words"  ~Bhearn

                                 

                                You've been missed and I hope you and your family have been well.

                                 

                                +1

                                 

                                I enjoyed many years of Spaniel's great training advice and running exploits.

                                 

                                 

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