Forums >Running 101>Hello, and Thank You For Your Help
Smooth is Fast
Calling myself a runner would an insult to real runners everywhere... I've loathed running ever since my high school gym teacher told us to jog around the gym for 15 minutes. I'm still convinced she was the right hand of Satan himself. I've always been relatively athletic, I've never been even close to overweight, but running has never been my gig. That said, the Army really likes people who like to run, and I'm trying to change my ways. When seriously approaching something new I try to find the smart man's way... understanding the why and the how, not just the caveman way of 'Well bro, you just have to go harder and go faster! Man up! Dig Deep!'. I get that there are no magic pills or secret tricks that, overnight, will make me run faster, shoot straighter, or lift more. That said, I know there are right ways and wrong ways to go about things. The smart man's way involves identifying the right way, learning how the right way is done, and learns why that is the right way. That's why I'm here.
I am 5'8", 165 pounds, male, and 21 years old. I'm currently training up for a PT test on the 17th, and running between 5-6 miles a day on a treadmill at about a 10min/mi pace. If the treadmill is to be believed my average heart rate is about 175bpm. I start with a warm up, run about 10min/mi, run the last little bit faster, and cool down at the end. At the end of my runs and after my cool downs I feel GREAT. My lungs feel massive, the world seems sharper, and I'm loving it. Considering my current 10min/mi pace for 5-6 miles, what would you expect my potential two mile run time to be now? I've settled into doing the same 5-6 mile runs at about the same pace, but I know I shouldn't settle too much. I will be running every day. What do I need to mix in?
My form and technique could probably use some work, because I don't know what TRULY right looks or feels like. Nature taught me how to run. Still, I'm constantly reminding myself as I work to fix my form (90 degree elbows, swinging my arms but not dramatically, landing on the mid-heel and rolling to push off with the toes, keeping arms/shoulders/neck relaxed, breathing consistently and deeply from the belly). About three miles into my runs my left foot starts tingling a lot and by the end is completely numb. The right gets a bit tingly, but never completely tingly or numb. Sometimes during my runs I feel like my right foot is working a lot harder than my left, and my right upper foot/shin muscles will feel tight or more tired. That tightness/tired feeling is recurring, fading in and out during the run. If I forget about and focus on something else I forget about it and then it's gone. With those symptoms, it seems like something about my form isn't balanced or even. I'm not developing shin splints, bruising, blisters, or lasting pain.
Recap/TL;DR:
21yo Male, 165 pounds, 5'8" tall. Running 5 - 6 miles a day @ 9.5-10min/mi pace w/ an average heart rate of 175bpm. Right now, how quickly should I be expected to run two miles?
Instead of running 5-6 miles at 'x' speed every day, what should I mix in to see the best 2 mile run results?
Numbness in left foot, tingling in right. Right upper foot/shin feels like it's working harder than left. What might be wrong?
Thank you. Time to hit the gym!
I got to the gym a bit late tonight, with only about 35 minutes until close... major bummer, I need (and want) to make sure to get there earlier.
Without the time for the longer run I opted for what the treadmill called 1:2 intervals for 3 miles in 30 minutes. I was always taught running intervals meant a little bit of high speed, a little bit more recovery but the treadmill did a "1 minute 4% elevation : 2 minute 0% elevation" at your set speed. Shouldn't that just be called running hills..? I don't even know what I don't know, so educate me.
The elevation started kicking my butt at the end of the workout. Throwing in the intervals made me forget to keep quite as close an eye on my (probably poor to start with) form, so I think it was overall a bit sloppier. Tonight I didn't have any numbness, tingling, or 'uneven workload' SYMPTOMS. That may just be because I didn't run long enough to feel them. I also didn't feel the 'WOW I feel awesome!' that I've been experiencing after my ~5mi runs, though my chest and lungs did still feel like they got a decent stretch.
Accidental double-post
Hi,
Sounds like you're off to a much better start than most people who post an "OMG I have a PT test in 3 weeks!", so congrats.
Since you haven't really had a chance to push yourself or get used to what really racing feels like, it's hard to say. But, if you're able to run 5-6 miles every day, and feel pretty good afterwards, then it may be the case that 10 mm is your "easy" pace. If that's true, we can work backwards from a training calculator like this one. If we plug in a race time for 2 miles until we find one that lists an "easy pace" around yours, we come out with a 15:30 time for the 2 miles. But, that's with a whole lot of assumptions plugged in along the way, and assuming you're able to really redline it during your test.
I don't think you're going to get a lot faster between now and the 17th. But, what you might get to do is have a chance to practice that pace and see how it feels for shorter chunks of time. 15:30 would be a 7:30 pace. You could try running that pace for .25 miles, jogging until you don't feel like you're going to die, then doing another 7:30-paced interval, etc. If that's your 2 mile pace, that will feel very tough during the workout- don't be alarmed unless you actually start throwing up or dying or something. If that happens, then that pace is too fast.
I wouldn't do that very often, maybe just a few times between now and then to get your legs and brain used to the idea that you can run faster without the sky falling.
Thank you, this is the kind of info I'm looking for. I'm sure most of my questions have been answered, I'm just so in the dark I can't even find the answers! Luckily for me this isn't an "OH GOD, I'm 350 pounds and have a PT test tomorrow, help me run a 12min 2 mile or they'll kick me out!" thread. I happen to have a PT test in three weeks. Looking past that, I want to improve and prepare myself for the next 15 years of my career, not just the next PT test.
You're right about my brain thinking the sky is falling at higher speeds... I sort of feel that a lot of my current speed limitations are mental, not physical. In the past when I tried to kick up my speed when approaching a deadline I went too hard too quickly, all while telling myself running sucks, and I ended up dejected. That turned into a bad training scar, and now I have to show my head "see, this isn't so bad, and you're NOT going to die!" Taking that into consideration, it seems I've been able to improve faster than most people think I should be able to, because I'm not actually improving my physical ability so much as I'm unlocking a little bit more of the potential I already had. It's still new for me to be able to feel tired while running and say "Yeah, give me more of that" instead of "the world is literally ending, please shoot me."
I'll try to work my proposed 2mi pace into interval training once a week or so. Other than that, should I continue mostly doing my 5-6mi 10mm 'easy runs', should I run for longer distances at the same pace, or should I change it up more often than only once a week?
Thanks again. I really appreciate your time and help, along with anyone else that has anything to say.
The motto around here is something like: "Run lots. Mostly easy, sometimes hard."
So don't worry about going slow on your easy days. It's that base that will allow both your brain and body to push through when you do want to run harder. And don't discount the power of "race day" or "PT day" magic to kick in when you've got the training behind it!
As far as what else you should do long term, that depends on your goals. Are you interested in improving your 2 mile pace? Running a great 5K? Trying out something longer? The "sometimes hard" part will vary depending on your answer.
In the 'near' future I'd like to work on my 2mi time. After I get to the point that I'm acing the PT test (13min 2mi), I want to work on my 5mi time without sacrificing strength in other areas. I can't be a 'runner'; I need to be a balanced military athlete. As of now I don't have any aspirations of running a marathon or doing monthly races, but I tend to get pretty invested in things once they grab hold. Who knows what will happen.
I can't be a 'runner'; I need to be a balanced military athlete.
baloney ….they are not mutually exclusive
old woman w/hobby
Mike Morton
steph
Point taken. The idea I was trying to get across was that I cannot focus solely on long distance running. Obviously, I can and will run.
"http://www.runmortonrun.com/bio
Background:
Throughout the mid 90’s I was a top east coast Ultra Runner. After a hip injury in 1997 I had surgery and took some time off running to heal. I was stationed in Puerto Rico from 1998 until 2001 and was able to return to running shorter distances but I could not return to longer distances. In 2001 I attended selection and assessment for Special Forces. After successful completion, I conducted a year plus of Special Forces training and became a Green Beret. From 2003 until 2010 I was very busy training for and deploying to Iraq and Afghanistan. It was in 2010 that I realized I would like set some goals and pursue Ultra Running again. With no more deployments I am able to focus and train. It has been a very promising return and I have unfinished business to complete!"
Mike Morton himself though, at least according to his bio, wasn't what I would call a long distance "runner" and a well rounded military athlete. He was a determined runner, then a very active Special Forces soldier, then (as I read it) a runner again when he was finished deploying and didn't have to worry about being a balanced athlete for his team. I would honestly really enjoy to hear his thoughts on the matter.
All of that said, let's put it aside and not get wrapped up in differences of terminology. I meant no offense.
Run a 5K to get your race pace and base your training off that. You'll be surprised how much faster you can run with some adrenaline and others around to push you. Once you get that baseline you can do the following
Get off the treadmill a couple of times a week as your PT test is unlikely to be on the TM.
Try to get some more variation into your training runs, both in terms of speed and duration.
Try some strides (pickup speed for about 20-30 sec, recover, repeat 6-8 times) at the end of a few of your easy runs
Have some very easy days, some at a pace that feels challenging, one long run over 90 minutes.
Run hills to develop strength and speed. Short hill sprints, long hill repeats, easy paced run on a hilly course all help.
FWIW I too have some tingling/numbness issue running exclusively on a treadmill, have no idea why, could be just the vibration/instability of the machine.
Thank you, all of that helps. I did wonder about the differences between running on and off the treadmill, and if I'd see drastic changes in performance. I'll start hitting the track a couple days per week and mix in different speeds/times/elevations, etc. I'd really like to track down the cause of the numbness/tingling, especially after hearing you get it on the treadmill too.
I used to have a pair of shoes that made my feet numb. I switched brands and haven't had that since.
I am 5'8", 165 pounds, male, and 21 years old. I'm currently training up for a PT test on the 17th, and running between 5-6 miles a day on a treadmill at about a 10min/mi pace.
I went to Marine OCS in 1987 at the same height and weight as you. In the 5-6 months before signing my contract and leaving, I ran 6 miles a day and did tons of pushups, sit-ups and pull-ups. I kept no track of my time on my runs back then, I just ran (but I had run the initial 3 mile PFT in a hair under 18:00).
In my OCS class, I was somehow one of the better runners. There were about 5-6 of us who would generally be running at the front of the pack whenever they let us run out of platoon formations. In general, those same 5-6 guys were the same guys that were the fastest on the obstacle course, the rifles and deuce gear runs, the fartlek runs, etc.
The majority of my Basic School course was conducted during the heat of the Quantico summer. combat courses, infiltration courses, breaching minefields, conditioning marches, etc. in red flag conditions (we stopped training in black flag), lots of heat casualties, but never the good runners. Always the big muscular guys, including my roommate a former wrestler from Iowa State. Same story at IOC and out in the fleet.
I guess my point is that, based on my experiences and observations, I think being a solid runner is the most important aspect for achieving initial success in the physical tests you will be facing in the indoctrination phases of military training and thereafter if you are going into combat arms.
not bad for mile 25
There's great advice here already. The only thing I have to add is that my feet and ankles feel better after speed work, so get out on the roads and run fast occasionally.
Little correction: 17:30 / 2 = 7:45.