Forums >Running 101>Realistic First Marathon Target time
Why is it sideways?
Jeff, I'm not entirely a beginner at the marathon, but I'm also not experienced - at least, not enough to know what marathon effort is. I don't know how to pace to race a marathon -- I'm tempted to just take my PR pace and try to run that pace. Which would running to a number, which is probably the opposite of running to an effort level.
Jeff,
I'm not entirely a beginner at the marathon, but I'm also not experienced - at least, not enough to know what marathon effort is. I don't know how to pace to race a marathon -- I'm tempted to just take my PR pace and try to run that pace. Which would running to a number, which is probably the opposite of running to an effort level.
AP,
Sounds good to me.
2018 Goals:
Get Lucky Half 1:47:59
Grandmas Marathon
Fall Marathon - Twin Cities??
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I'll agree that innate talent is a huge limitation on one's ability, but given that I'm stuck with me, and my innate talent is fixed, then once I've acknowledged that I'll never be fast, I'm not sure it matters too much to my choices thereafter. Except that I should not give up my day job
It's a 5k. It hurt like hell...then I tried to pick it up. The end.
Sorry, Amores; but your limitation seems to be the fact that you believe you are not fast and probably has very little to do with your physical ones.
I differ with you entirely. I don't think that my believing I could break 13 on the 5K would magically make it happen, nor would it magically make me break even 13:30 on the 5K. I think you're simply advocating "positive thinking", without serious respect for physical capabilities.
(But, it is true that I've been wrong before.)
Sorry, I deeply apologize if my intent was taken the wrong way. No question that DB is an elite endurance athlete. I was just responding to the comment that he was "average ability". and yes, I was giving DB a big compliment. As far as the question at hand, innate ability is still at issue, as I still believe that some are gifted enough to break 4 or even 3:30 with less than the average training. It doesn't mean that most of us can't with average and above average amount. And yes, I completely agree that since most of us don't run 2:12 marathons, we can still be very competitive. The brightest person I know has dropped out of life because he feels he was too bright for it all. Respectfully, and still in awe of 900 miles in a month Tmcna
It's my bad. As other mentioned, I misunderstood what you were trying to say. Yes, I know talent counts!
I stand by my comment that DB is of average talent when it comes to pure marathon ability, but I respect your opinion.
I differ with you entirely. I don't think that my believing I could break 13 on the 5K would magically make it happen, nor would it magically make me break even 13:30 on the 5K. I think you're simply advocating "positive thinking", without serious respect for physical capabilities. (But, it is true that I've been wrong before.)
Actually, I'm not even talking about positive thinking. It's even way before that. Well, let me ask you this then; what kind of specific workouts to run FAST have you done before?
Amores:
Yeah, that's what i thought. You are one of the faster guys here. I don't know your background, how old you are, what you do for living, how many kids..., etc. Or how many years you've been running. Have you tried to run 7 days a week, twice a day? Have you gone up 100 miles a week? Or you pretty much given up way before that that you can't handle it? Most people, when they say they are not fast, had NEVER EVER tried to train to run fast before. No hills, ho drills, no intervals or no time trials.... With an 18-minute 5k, I'm sure you're familiar with those things. So, if that's the case, then my question would be; have you really tried to apply yourself before? I mean, really try to apply it. If you didn't want that, that's fine. Then your shortcoming is not because of lack of talent; but because of lack of desire. If you actually have; ran 100+ miles a week, week in and week out of 7 days a week, twice a day...then my question would be; have you really applied your thinking and structured your training in a very smart way and shoot for a good peak for about 5 ot 6 months? I'd say 99% of us here are not even qualified to say; "I'm not talented..." We ain't even there yet.
So what are you poisoning yourself with such negative thoughs anyways? Been reading Dick's posts too much lately? ;o)
not bad for mile 25
You may call me on the carpet for this, but I think at some point the talent vs. hard work debate becomes moot. What's the difference if a person might be physically capable of a 3:30 marathon or a 2:03 marathon but he is not interested in doing the work and changing his life to attain the goal? You may as well say he is not capable of doing it. Not willing = not capable.
(Feel free to substitute she for he, or I could substitute me, since I'm not currently willing to put in 100+ mile weeks of training.)
Nobby, granted it doesn't dispute all you were saying but have you seen AP's log recently? Most of us would switch places with that training in a heartbeat.
Good Bad & The Monkey
AP's stats:
I'm running somewhere tomorrow. It's going to be beautiful. I can't wait.
Poor baby
So he might discover he's good at running, if only he'd bear down and put in some work?
"I want you to pray as if everything depends on it, but I want you to prepare yourself as if everything depends on you."
-- Dick LeBeau
I just did. And your point is...??? Are you talking about mileage?
I was in a very similar position to you in 2009 as I ramped towards my first marathon with an equally high BMI. Unlike you, 54 minutes for a 10K was darn near an easy effort run, not a race. In my log I see I ran a medium effort 10K training run nearly three months out from my marathon in 49 minutes while weighing 213 lbs (over 15 stones) at 5'10" with weak mileage base. (Take that Mr. Bubbles!) Despite this and having dropped more weight, I barely broke 4 hours on the marathon. I didn't decide my target time until after my last long run. I figured my target by subtracting 30 seconds per mile from my best 19 mile run effort. There is no way I could have run that marathon faster. Attempting 3:30 would have been a recipe for complete and total disaster. It took another nine months of very consistant running before I was in a position to entertain the thought of 3:30 and I've had a much faster improvement trajectory than most around here. Here's my advice having been in your position. Look at running as a long term project and place your goals in the appropriate positions along the timeline of that project. Take it one step at a time. You'll have a good Paris Marathon if you can run it evenly and finish in the low 4 hour range. 3:30 might be a more appropriate goal this fall if you stay consistent, uninjured, loose weight, and continue show steady improvement. That and show us your log.
I was in a very similar position to you in 2009 as I ramped towards my first marathon with an equally high BMI. Unlike you, 54 minutes for a 10K was darn near an easy effort run, not a race. In my log I see I ran a medium effort 10K training run nearly three months out from my marathon in 49 minutes while weighing 213 lbs (over 15 stones) at 5'10" with weak mileage base. (Take that Mr. Bubbles!) Despite this and having dropped more weight, I barely broke 4 hours on the marathon. I didn't decide my target time until after my last long run. I figured my target by subtracting 30 seconds per mile from my best 19 mile run effort.
There is no way I could have run that marathon faster. Attempting 3:30 would have been a recipe for complete and total disaster. It took another nine months of very consistant running before I was in a position to entertain the thought of 3:30 and I've had a much faster improvement trajectory than most around here. Here's my advice having been in your position. Look at running as a long term project and place your goals in the appropriate positions along the timeline of that project. Take it one step at a time. You'll have a good Paris Marathon if you can run it evenly and finish in the low 4 hour range. 3:30 might be a more appropriate goal this fall if you stay consistent, uninjured, loose weight, and continue show steady improvement.
That and show us your log.
Xhristopher:
You know, at first I thought you were just a cocky basterd who thinks you can get away with running less if you run them all hard. Lately, however, I've noticed what you post here makes more and more sense and I'd been very impressed with how you had progressed. And I think your performance shows too. Congratulations.
Yep. I just pulled out the chart. Here was the 22 mile week: Monday: 4 miles Easy Wednesday: 6 miles speed (4 x 800 rest 90 seconds) Friday: 4 miles Easy Sunday: 22 miles Our scheduled runs were always Mon, Wed, Fri, and Sun. Like I said, I was concerned about the weekly low mileage we were doing, but they were all about not getting injured. I guess this was fine since almost everybody in our 80+ group was running their first marathon.
Yep. I just pulled out the chart. Here was the 22 mile week:
Monday: 4 miles Easy
Wednesday: 6 miles speed (4 x 800 rest 90 seconds)
Friday: 4 miles Easy
Sunday: 22 miles
Our scheduled runs were always Mon, Wed, Fri, and Sun. Like I said, I was concerned about the weekly low mileage we were doing, but they were all about not getting injured. I guess this was fine since almost everybody in our 80+ group was running their first marathon.
With all that I had said earlier about "talent", as some of you know, I'm by NO mean "run less, run faster" type of a guy. However, again, it's not all about how many mile you run. Derek Clayton ran 200MPW but never won Olympics or Commonwealth Games. You've got to understand your own sweet spot and train intelligently. This is something I would not normally suggest to anybody (especially without adult's supervision!! ;o) but here's what I prescribed to my wife when she did her first marathon.
Monday: rest
Tuesday: rest
Wednesday: 2~3 miles easy jog
Thursday: rest
Friday: rest
Saturday: 2 miles easy jog
Sunday:: long run, starting about 12-miles, working her way up to 18 (3 hours)
She did this for 10-weeks. She ran her first marathon in 3:54. That was her second ever road race (the first being a 5-miler). And don't nobody gives this "oh, she's got talent..." crap!!