2018 Sub-3. No rules. Run. (Read 789 times)

     I was able to progress from 3:12 to 2:46 with him, so obviously I have a lot of faith in what he does, but always interested in hearing the other side. 

     

    Great reasoning JMac! Help me to find an explanation to this - I was able to progress from 3:31 to 2:48 in 3 years with Don Fink, Pfitz, Hansons and "No plan" plans. I wonder what should I make out of it?

    finbad


      BOTT

      Balls on the table Finbad 

       

      LOL, when I asked about rescheduling the op the Doc actually told me she could 'do me with the bricks' round the back of the hospital right away.

      Upcoming; 15th April Boston marathon, 3rd May Scottish 5k champs, 9th May Helensburgh 10k, 16th May Dumbarton 10k, 24th May Monument mile, 26th May Shettleston 10k, 1st June Killearn trail 10, 2nd June Milngavie trail race, 16th June 7 hills of Edinburgh, 12th October TAMA half marathon, 27th October Leeds Abbey dash 10k


      Elite Jogger

         

         

        Mikkey - fwiw, I'm a big fan of the deadlifts and other working with heavy things in the gym as a way to improve running - I hope it works for you!

         

         

         

        I’ve ordered a 60kg barbell set for home use for when I don’t feel like going to the gym. Squats I’ve always used my 30kg powerbag, 3x10, but I’m starting to think that’s not enough...what do you think? (today I weigh 67kg)

        5k - 17:53 (2019)   10k - 37:53 (2018)   Half - 1:23:18 (2019)   Full - 2:51:32 (2016)

         

        Next Up: London Mary - 28th April

        JTReeves


          Great work everyone, lots of nice training going on.

           

          Finbad: 4.5 minutes plank is very impressive, nice work.  Mikkey, I wonder what the person doing that 8h world record looks like, must just be one solid piece of muscle!

           

          Count me among the frustrated with injuries group. I just got over a left calf strain, then strained my right hammy last week. That seemed nearly back to normal when yesterday I strained the left calf again, while 3 miles from home. Also have an annoying case of bursitis behind my big toe on the left foot, though this is not a problem for running.

           

          I've never had such a succession of niggles like the last 2 months since my marathon. It coincides with me upping significantly the weight I am squatting and deadlifting, now am at 155 lbs for each, 3 sets of 6, bodyweight is 165 lbs. I also started up ab work for the first time in >2 yrs since I am hernia-free and it no longer hurts to do that. I thought all this should help prevent injuries even more but seems I was better off being weak and flabby 

          5K: 17:55 (2017)    HM: 1:23:57 (2016)    FM: 2:52:16 (2018)

          2019 races: Athens Ohio Marathon (April 14); Erie Marathon (Sept. 8)

          JMac11


            JT - I always get injured the less I'm running. I know, it doesn't make sense, but my last 3 injuries all occurred either during taper or when I was running less. Maybe your calf injury was just waiting in the wings? Anyway you were making great progress coming back, no worries with taking it easy over the holidays. Come back strong for 2019.

             

            Weights - I started doing a routing of p90x legs at home. Doesn't really require weights to start but really kicks my ass.

            5K: 17:51 (5/18)  |  10K: 35:59 (3/19)  |  HM: 1:16:21 (3/19)  |  FM: 2:46:17 (11/18) 

             

            Next Race: Boston (4/15/19) 

            weatherboy80


              JMac: I think you are pretty spot on your rest ratio as Daniels suggests about 1 minute for every 5 min of LT run and is certainly geared to those more elite than us. So this morning when doing my 4 X 2T workout I rested about 1:15 for every mile run for 2:30 total. Not sure if that is ideal or not, but figure it is close enough. BTW - ran my first 5.5 miles pretty easy and still was busting some rust in my first 2 mile rep this morning and got it going in the next 3 reps to about where I should be. Finished it off with a 2+ mile hobble jog afterwards for a 16 mile day. Will say that my legs are definately beat up now though! I also feel these Daniels workouts can be a double edged sword for some folks. I do suggest working up to some of them as the first time I went through them was quite a challenge compared to what I did in previous marathons even though many if the concepts were similar. Biggest change for me was including so much quality in some of the longer efforts. I would also suggest taking the EZ days as EZ as one can mange otherwise you might be in trouble for next Q day. Certainly no plan is bulletproof for everyone though.

              5K: 16:44 (11/18)  |  10K: 36:09 (2/18)  |  HM: 1:17:15 (12/18)  |  FM: 2:48:58 (1/18)

              JMac11


                Thanks Weather, definitely think the longer rest helps a lot. I implemented that halfway through my cycle last year, made a huge difference. The last interval of 4x2 is still near race effort.

                 

                Swim - I saw you comment on Strava that JD's plans turned you into dust for your 2017 cycle. Anything you care to share, including if you would do anything differently going forward?

                5K: 17:51 (5/18)  |  10K: 35:59 (3/19)  |  HM: 1:16:21 (3/19)  |  FM: 2:46:17 (11/18) 

                 

                Next Race: Boston (4/15/19) 

                steve_


                powered by plants

                  I don't get the winter running downs that seem to be affecting y'all.  I'd rather it be 50 and sunny, but every run is a blessing these days.

                   

                  In regards to Daniels plan, whoever said earlier about either reducing the intensity or the duration of his plans to make them palatable, but that's spot on.  16 miles with an assortment of M and T pace stuff, 19 miles with 15 at MP, doing multiple workouts weekly at T pace...that's just too much.

                   

                  In my experience though, most don't listen when people tell them a plan is too much for them.

                  5k: 17:52 (2014); 10k 36:59 (2014); 15k: 56:29 (2018); Half: 1:19:27* (2018); Full: 2:54:22 (2018)

                  *downhill AF

                  Swim5599


                    Thanks Weather, definitely think the longer rest helps a lot. I implemented that halfway through my cycle last year, made a huge difference. The last interval of 4x2 is still near race effort.

                     

                    Swim - I saw you comment on Strava that JD's plans turned you into dust for your 2017 cycle. Anything you care to share, including if you would do anything differently going forward?

                    Would love to.  The issue that I had was I also pushed the mileage envelope to the extreme.  During that cycle I ran a 520 mile 4 week block.  I avg d a shade under 115 for the 18 weeks.  By the time the race rolled around my glutes hurt and I was pretty shot.  It was warm that day and I’m arguably the worst warm weather racer in here.  Limped her in for a 3:12.  The epitome of brutality.  The EZ runs need to be way north of 8:15 s I would say.  Otherwise your burning the candle on both ends,  I love those work outs and I ran some really good TLT s but ya have to be careful.  Best of luck

                    HM: 1/17 1:18:53. FM: 12/18 2:46:04

                      Reeves sorry to hear. I too have had hammy soreness with the calf injury. Maybe they are linked.

                       

                      I'm going to shut it down till the new year due to been unable to shake my calf injury. I have only given it at most 1 week rest and then went straight into 55 mpw. Its sucks starting my 18 week cycle like this especially as I feel I need a full 18 week cycle to have any chance at sub 3. But it is what it is.

                      50+ PBs5k 18:29 Tauranga Parkrun May18   

                      10k 40:16 June 18

                      " I have a plan to make my legs longer by wearing shorter shorts "      

                       

                      darkwave


                      Mother of Cats

                         

                        In my experience though, most don't listen when people tell them a plan is too much for them.

                         

                        Agreed.  I think that many runners have a "recipe" approach to training - they believe that if they just follow a plan to the letter and hit all the prescribed paces, they're guaranteed to hit that plan's specified time on race day.  So they pick a plan that is too much, because they have a reach goal.

                         

                        It's very hard to train for where you are THAT DAY.  Which can be very different from where you want to be.

                         

                         

                         

                        I’ve ordered a 60kg barbell set for home use for when I don’t feel like going to the gym. Squats I’ve always used my 30kg powerbag, 3x10, but I’m starting to think that’s not enough...what do you think? (today I weigh 67kg)

                         

                        Personally, I prefer higher weights and lower reps.  I usually do 2-3 sets at a weight that I can get 4-6 reps out of during each set.  For example, when I'm in shape I max out my split squats with a barbell loaded to 130% of my body weight.

                         

                        My (admittedly limited) understanding of strengthwork is that lower reps/higher weights build power/strength, while higher reps/lower weights promote hypertrophy - i.e. bigger muscles.   (If you ever see fitness athletes/bodybuilders train in the gym, you'll see them doing a LOT of reps).   As a runner, you want power, not size.

                         

                        Of course, it's hard to train that heavy at home - I don't think it's safe to do squats/split squats/barbell lunges with that heavy a weight unless you're using a power cage.  And I'm guessing there's very few runners that have a power cage in their garage....

                         

                        JTReeves - very sorry about the niggles.  I'm wondering if maybe it's from ramping the strengthwork up too quickly?  Or not timing correcting in relation to your running?  (I like to do leg strengthwork RIGHT after my hard running workouts, to max out the recovery time before the next hard session).

                         

                        Or maybe you're just an example of how we're all individuals.

                         

                        Piwi - sorry to read about the ongoing issues.  Shutting it down for two weeks does seem like a reasonable response.  And I think a shorter cycle when healthy will produce better results than a longer injury plagued one.

                        Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

                         

                        And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

                        weatherboy80


                          JT& Piwi: sorry to hear about the injury bug.  Hope things turn around quickly!

                           

                          darkwave: nice looking week!

                           

                          Agree with the thoughts on training plans.  So much goes into how well each of us can absorb whatever plan we follow.  These plans should be used as a simple guideline anyways.  My sample size with Daniels is so small right now (couple of half’s and fulls along with some local shorter stuff), but I have been able to progress at just about all distances in the last few years.  I attribute more of that to a structured Ez/hard discipline and a more consistent mileage base more than anything.  Prior to late 2016 I wasn’t doing any workouts at all other than just a bunch of moderate paced running  😆

                          5K: 16:44 (11/18)  |  10K: 36:09 (2/18)  |  HM: 1:17:15 (12/18)  |  FM: 2:48:58 (1/18)

                            (today I weigh 67kg)

                             

                            My gosh MIkkey - I started dreaming right away... If I remember correctly, you and I are almost the same height (5'9" ?), theoretically right now we are at the same speed for a marathon (ok, you maybe a couple of minutes faster), Your weight is 67kg, my current weight is 75kg - 8kg or 18 lbs difference. Every pound adds approximately 2-3 secs per mile - that means I am faster than you by 36-54 seconds per mile or approximately 18-20 minutes per marathon - that is, if you are a 3 hours marathoner right now and, let's assume, I am at your weight, my potential marathon time is 2:42-2:44. Sweeeeet.....  


                            Elite Jogger

                               

                              My gosh MIkkey - I started dreaming right away... If I remember correctly, you and I are almost the same height (5'9" ?), theoretically right now we are at the same speed for a marathon (ok, you maybe a couple of minutes faster), Your weight is 67kg, my current weight is 75kg - 8kg or 18 lbs difference. Every pound adds approximately 2-3 secs per mile - that means I am faster than you by 36-54 seconds per mile or approximately 18-20 minutes per marathon - that is, if you are a 3 hours marathoner right now and, let's assume, I am at your weight, my potential marathon time is 2:42-2:44. Sweeeeet.....  

                               

                              I think you should start doing Zumba classes. Dance those calories away and you’ll get down to 67kg in no time. 🕺

                              5k - 17:53 (2019)   10k - 37:53 (2018)   Half - 1:23:18 (2019)   Full - 2:51:32 (2016)

                               

                              Next Up: London Mary - 28th April

                                 

                                I think you should start doing Zumba classes. Dance those calories away and you’ll get down to 67kg in no time. 🕺

                                 

                                I wish... Even in my most intense training years I have never went below 71 kg - but, saying that - I have no idea what you do at Zumba classes Smile