2018 Sub-3. No rules. Run. (Read 789 times)

vanhalen26


    Hey all.  Figured I'd pose this here as a bunch of you are chasing what I am - a sub 3.  I'm running Boston and have trained on an 18 week program that peaks at 90 mile per week, I guess averages around 80.

     

    Just finished a 21 miler that opened with 4 miles easy and then 14 at race pace (a middle mile was tempo, so actually 1 tempo and 13 at race pace).  I closed it out with 3 miles easy.

     

    For the race pace portion I averaged a 6:43 pace.  It closes out an 81 mile week, and I ran easy the last two days prior as a mini taper.  Think there's a sub 3 in that?  I think it depends on the weather and winds ... its that close.

     

    We'll see what the forecast brings.  Got a little lucky - wave two but corral 1 - so I won't be people dodging if I go for it.  Was planning on a pace targeting 3:05 for the first half and then running by feel thereafter, but my paces have really picked up the last 3-4 weeks (trust the training!) and I'm 50 so there won't be many more shots at sub-3 for me.

    finbad


      All -thanks

       

      Swim - great week, 3 sessions is really good.

      Mikkey - you might be onto something with a MP 10 miler at the weekend and midweek LR. I'll see how the legs feel and try not to get sucked into racing

      JT - good week, if it makes you feel better about Wednesday I've been finding it hard to hit workout paces too but on my race on Sunday the strength and reserves were there. Looking good for your race

      Vanhalen - Hi. Sounds like you've had a good build up cycle and that 21 Mile test session looks promising. It all depends on how you felt, I'd say (conditions depending) sub 3 would be there for the taking as long as your 14 at race pace felt like race pace. Good luck.

      Upcoming; 3rd May Scottish 5k champs, 9th May Helensburgh 10k, 16th May Dumbarton 10k, 24th May Monument mile, 26th May Shettleston 10k, 1st June Killearn trail 10, 2nd June Milngavie trail race, 16th June 7 hills of Edinburgh, 12th October TAMA half marathon, 27th October Leeds Abbey dash 10k

      Andres1045


        Finbad - That's just an insane week.  The half result on its own is incredible, but to know that you did it at the end of an 80 mile week (which is at about your peak) and that your taper included an all-out 3k?  You're in amazing shape at the moment.  For me the goal would be to do everything in my power to be in a position to cash in on this fitness come marathon time.  With that in mind, I wouldn't bother doing the 10 mile race--even at MP.  First, I'm not sure you need too much more MP work at this point (maybe keep up the shorter, higher intensity stuff as the mileage comes down a bit?).  But more importantly, with the shape that you're in, I doubt you'll have the discipline to hold back during the race and really go at MP.  I know I wouldn't.  I'd probably try to go for a long easy run that's in 2:40 total time territory.  In other words, longer time on your feet than what you'll be doing on the streets of London.

         

        Mark - I'm excited to see what you do in your goal race after what you did on that hilly tune up.

         

        JT - Still a good week mileage wise as you get close to your taper.  Seems to me that the feeling you describe is more or less where you want to be as you wind up the training.  Hopefully the desire to push comes back as the miles drop.

         

        Swim - Great week!  Starting your M effort at 6:15 and working down to 5:45 is incredible.  It will be exciting to follow your progress during the slow summer months.

         

        vanhalen26 - I agree with Finbad regarding what the workout told you.  It's hard to give you too much advice without knowing more about your history or training, but assuming you've got a good amount of training and marathon experience, I'd want to know how that effort compared to other marathons or workouts leading up to marathons.  To me, the effort should have felt hard on your legs, but comfortable to comfortably hard on your breathing.  In other words, the effort was right, even if you couldn't have gone the full distance that day with your legs feeling the cumulative fatigue effects.  And for what it's worth, the most MP I've ever done before a marathon was 10 at the end of a 20 miler, so I'd feel quite good about getting in 14 in 21 miles. 

         

        My week

        Weekly Summary
        Monday, Mar 19, 2018 thru Sunday, Mar 25, 2018

        <tfoot> </tfoot>
        Day Miles Pace Description HR Link
        Mon 7.4 8:07 Morning Run 141 (72%) strava
        Tue 6.0 7:48 10x400, 200rec 148 (76%) strava
        Wed 8.1 7:29 Morning Run 148 (76%) strava
        Thu 8.2 8:10 Morning Run 136 (70%) strava
        Fri 8.2 7:58 Morning Run 140 (72%) strava
        Sat 21.8 7:28 KW 150 (77%) strava
        Sun 6.4 8:10 Morning Run 137 (70%) strava
          66.1 7:47      

         

        I was happy with the week.  I decided to switch over to some faster stuff on Tuesday in case I decide to do a 5k the weekend before Boston (April 7, not 14).  I ran those 400s in about 1:19/18.  I was aiming for 1:20, but after thinking about the effort more, I probably should have aimed for 1:22.  Oh well.

         

        After dropping the mileage for the roughly 9 days I was in Spain, I needed this week to get me back to where I was before I left (the trip spanned two weeks, and I averaged just under 50 for those two weeks).  I feel like I'm more or less back to the fitness level I was before I left.  It would have been great to have advanced a little more in these past ~18 days, but here we are.  And no regrets as I had an absolute blast on the trip.  Not sure where exactly I'll be pace-target wise when I line up for Boston.  But I assume so much of that decision will depend on the weather.  At least I think I'll be better equipped to try for sub 3 if it ends up being mid 70's and sunny for the third year in a row.

        Upcoming races:  I dunno.

        vanhalen26


          Thanks guys.  I think it will be a race day call.  West wind and cool temps and I probably go for it, otherwise go out on a 3:05 pace and see how I feel at the half and adjust accordingly.  That could set me up for an attempt on a flatter course in the fall.

           

          I'll keep eyeballing the thread - I enjoy it, just not a frequent poster.


          Laura

            Fin: BLAZING WEEK with those 2 great races, seriously setting yourself up for great day in London. I'm with  Swim and agree 2:39-40ish, usually that's my gut to take the median of the pace predictors and skew based on distance etc. You are definitely leaning towards faster end right now. Soak those feet in some epsom salts and warm water, helps with the blisters!

             

            Swim: Awesome 3Q sesh week, I like doing those every few weeks as like a jumpstart to training.

             

            JT: Glad the watch seemed to work better when tighter, it's definitely fun metric to have for data nerds (I totally am) though that is one metric I'm good about not taking over the top because the data can skew really easy depending on variables. Enjoy the taper heading into Easter, while yes it's hard to hold back on those holiday's still nice to not have to worry about fitting as much training in! Easter candy doesn't get me as much as other holiday's, though we are doing brunch with one side of the family and then dinner with the other so won't be a food shortage.

             

            VanHalen: Agree with what the guys have said so far, hard to say for sure but sounds like you are setting yourself up for good time in Boston and definitely potential sub-3 given conditions etc. I'd caution on banking on a negative split on that course, it's definitely doable but usually not a sizeable negative split based on the terrain. Plus, you don't want to slow yourself down too much in the first few miles because you can blow out your quads holding back on those descents too much. Either way though, go out there and kick ass...sounds like you've been putting in the work and the effort is there...ride it out and see what happens!

             

            Andres: I really wouldn't worry too much about any fitness loss with 2 weeks in Spain, even if it felt like it you really probably did more activity on top of the slightly lower miles than you really think. Running strong and you'll be a bit fresher than normal perhaps coming into taper and race day- not always a bad thing!

             

            My Week: Felt good after last week was cutback, this week was busy in life but managed to sneak in the miles so that was good. Friday's workout wasn't stellar feeling but I'm at that point where I just can't hack a shorter warm-up my body just prefers a few more miles but I didn't have the time. Sunday's easy long run was good, had to do it at Zero Dark Thirty because my daughter got baptised yesterday (was amazing day). Gonna jump to about 60 this week and hold in the 60's until last week of April and I'll drop a little for the week of my half and then back up for another week or 2 before taper. Hell, this training cycle is flying by.

             

            Mon: 6 Miles 8:15 avg Easy meandering outsides
            Tues: 5 Miles 8:48 avg Recovery Treadmill
            Wed: 7 Miles 7:14 avg Steady State
            Thurs: 5.6 Miles+ Strides 8:26 avg/5:26 avg Cold late evening miles
            Fri: 9 Miles   10 x .25 Moderate Hill repeats, followed by 8 x 45 second flat inervals
            Sat: 7.5 Miles 8:01 avg Easy Mill miles
            Sun: 15.4 Miles 7:54 avg Easy early ass long run
            Total: 56 Miles    

            Pre-Baby PR's (all from 2015): 5k: 18:46  10k: 38:37 HM: 1:24:51 FM: 2:58:13

            Postpartum PR's: 5k: 18:18 (2018)  HM: 1:21:14 (2019) FM: 2:57:06 (2018-12 mo PP)

             

            Next Up: Erie Marathon

             

            {Strava}{IG}

             

            DoppleBock


              I have been MIA - It has been a struggle with work, family fun and running.

               

              2 weeks ago I had a decent week - 54 miles with skipping my weekend long run - We were in Milwaukee for my daughter's volleyball tournament and I did not prioritize running.

               

              Then last week Mo-Th 2pm was 54 hours of work so I could take the family downhill skiing TH Night, all day FR & Sat ... Again I did not prioritize running, so last week was pathetic.

               

              This week my goals

              * 50+ miles

              * Hill grinding workout at High Cliff state park

              * 20 minutes @ T

              *  Weekend long run 18+ miles

               

              In addition - My youngest (7th grade) is looking to do weights, plyo and volleyball drills with me three times this week (Tu-TH-Sa)

               

              Hope everyone is chugging along / grinding it out a lot better than I am right now.

              Comeback #19    # 20  #21 Not sure why I am pretending to try anymore ... But here it goes again. 

               

               

              finbad


                Andres, Lela - good looking weeks

                Mikkey - first time I've used them - those Compeed plaster things are magic, thanks. I got my final London email through this morning (race number 31626) have you got yours?

                 

                I've unsurprisingly succumbed to a stinking cold that is plaguing my house and just about coming out of the DOMS from Sunday's race so taking this week super easy.

                 

                Dopplebock - If you're not prioritising the running then you've got to judge those weeks a bit more kindly. >50 miles is pretty decent stuff, people run marathons of off that.

                Upcoming; 3rd May Scottish 5k champs, 9th May Helensburgh 10k, 16th May Dumbarton 10k, 24th May Monument mile, 26th May Shettleston 10k, 1st June Killearn trail 10, 2nd June Milngavie trail race, 16th June 7 hills of Edinburgh, 12th October TAMA half marathon, 27th October Leeds Abbey dash 10k

                DoppleBock


                  Thank you -  I am in a good place - Since I am not targeting sub 3 until fall I have time.  But now is the time for skiing to end (There will be places open for another 3-4 weeks ... but I am done) - I have just enough time to get in shape to finish the 50 mile trail race (May 12).  Then the more focussed training will start.

                   

                  But I do need to lose 25 pounds by the end of May to be in line with my plan.

                   

                   

                   

                  Dopplebock - If you're not prioritising the running then you've got to judge those weeks a bit more kindly. >50 miles is pretty decent stuff, people run marathons of off that.

                  Comeback #19    # 20  #21 Not sure why I am pretending to try anymore ... But here it goes again. 

                   

                   

                    Andres: Nice week; looks like the goal is sub-17 for the 5k if you decide to run it? A 5k a week before the marathon is a good way to sharpen up; usually my company has one that ends up being the week before my fall marathon.

                     

                    Lela: Nice job getting the miles in during a busy week. And congrats on your daughter's baptism; I can still remember my son's and now he'll be starting high school in the fall. Time really does fly!

                     

                    Dopple: Might as well enjoy the skiing while you can, especially if your goal marathon is not till fall. It still counts as exercise and is better than doing nothing!

                     

                    VanHalen: Welcome! I saw them in concert 3 times back in the 90's; great shows each time. As an avid guitar player in my younger years Eddie was always one of my heroes. Anyway, seems like you have a good chance for sub 3 at Boston, with the big caveat of the weather cooperating.

                    5K: 17:55 (2017)    HM: 1:23:57 (2016)    FM: 2:52:16 (2018)

                    Up next: Erie Marathon (Sept. 8)


                    Elite Jogger

                       

                      Mikkey - first time I've used them - those Compeed plaster things are magic, thanks. I got my final London email through this morning (race number 31626) have you got yours?

                       

                       

                      Yeah I stick those plasters on problem areas before a marathon so that I don’t have to deal with blisters after the race!  My number is 32297 but not sure if I’ll be doing it now as I’m still not running, but the bursitis is improving. I’m seeing the PT again on Saturday and might ask about a cortisone injection and see what he thinks. I definitely won’t be running the Paddock Wood Half on the 8th so I’ll have no idea how much fitness I’ve lost. Anyway you’ll love London and it’s by far the best marathon I’ve run and buzzing from start to finish.

                      5k - 17:53 (2019)   10k - 37:53 (2018)   Half - 1:23:18 (2019)   Full - 2:50:43 (2019)


                      Elite Jogger

                        And that Van Halen song ‘Jump’ is classic!!!

                        5k - 17:53 (2019)   10k - 37:53 (2018)   Half - 1:23:18 (2019)   Full - 2:50:43 (2019)

                        flyrunnr


                          Hey all.  Figured I'd pose this here as a bunch of you are chasing what I am - a sub 3.  I'm running Boston and have trained on an 18 week program that peaks at 90 mile per week, I guess averages around 80.

                           

                          Just finished a 21 miler that opened with 4 miles easy and then 14 at race pace (a middle mile was tempo, so actually 1 tempo and 13 at race pace).  I closed it out with 3 miles easy.

                           

                          For the race pace portion I averaged a 6:43 pace.  It closes out an 81 mile week, and I ran easy the last two days prior as a mini taper.  Think there's a sub 3 in that?  I think it depends on the weather and winds ... its that close.

                           

                          We'll see what the forecast brings.  Got a little lucky - wave two but corral 1 - so I won't be people dodging if I go for it.  Was planning on a pace targeting 3:05 for the first half and then running by feel thereafter, but my paces have really picked up the last 3-4 weeks (trust the training!) and I'm 50 so there won't be many more shots at sub-3 for me.

                           

                          I tried to run a sub-3 from 2/1 in Boston once... I didn't truly believe I was in sub-3 shape, but after I started to realize it *could* actually happen, I started to smile, and it was only a question of how many seconds under 3 hrs I would be. What a feeling!  Wave 2 Corral 1 is a great place to run a first sub-3, even though most corral occupants are holding BQ's in 3:09-3:12 range.

                           

                          Just keep it check until the half, then keep on pace until mile 20. But I was only 47 then, it's good to be young and reckless. Wink

                           

                          2016, Bib 8127, my splits were:  5K-21:32, 10K-42:40, 15K-1:03:46, 20K-1:25:17, Half-1:29:50, 25K-1:46:32, 30K-2:07:56, 35K-2:29:29, 40K-2;50:07, Finish-2:59:15.


                          https://www.strava.com/athletes/2507437

                          PR's - 5K - 17:57 (2017) | 10K - 38:06 (2016)  | 13.1 1:26:36 (2017)  | 26.2  2:58:46 (2017)

                          2019 Goals - Sub-2:55 Marathon (Fall)                           Up Next: Caesar Rodney Half, Boston, Broad Street Run

                           

                          vanhalen26


                            Andres: Nice week; looks like the goal is sub-17 for the 5k if you decide to run it? A 5k a week before the marathon is a good way to sharpen up; usually my company has one that ends up being the week before my fall marathon.

                             

                            Lela: Nice job getting the miles in during a busy week. And congrats on your daughter's baptism; I can still remember my son's and now he'll be starting high school in the fall. Time really does fly!

                             

                            Dopple: Might as well enjoy the skiing while you can, especially if your goal marathon is not till fall. It still counts as exercise and is better than doing nothing!

                             

                            VanHalen: Welcome! I saw them in concert 3 times back in the 90's; great shows each time. As an avid guitar player in my younger years Eddie was always one of my heroes. Anyway, seems like you have a good chance for sub 3 at Boston, with the big caveat of the weather cooperating.

                             

                            Thanks JT ... I've seen them many times, but the '84 tour sold out as I was maybe 10 back in line day of the show.  It was a religious holiday and parents said I couldn't go - so I never bought the ticket.  Then day of the show I got rebellious and went anyways (they said OK reluctantly) and just I missed getting in.  I did hear them warming up to I'll wait.    That said - I saw them in 2012 with DLR (but not Michael A.) - here's some cool pics.  This is in Buffalo and they let cameras into that tour and I was lucky to be up close!  https://drive.google.com/open?id=1-LS8ugrLmmkdSoGn6IAw-ePcZxtw3shG

                             

                            I'm still holding my breath for an original line up show.  Who knows, eh?

                             

                            On the running theme, I did a mini two day taper and am going to try a 10km time trial tomorrow at the track with my racing day shoes on (Boston is 2 weeks out now) ... that should help gauge my current/final fitness to to help pick a target time.  I broke 39 minutes a couple weeks ago when I gave it my first try of the season, and figure being older I probably have a bias to endurance vs. speed.  Going to see if I can break 39 or better again.

                             

                            Thx!

                            vanhalen26


                              Clocked a 37:46 10k at the track today, was quite happy.  I know my base is good - lots of volume this cycle.  Now I hold my breath for anything but a heat wave (unlikely this year!)  or headwind and if so I'll probably go out on a 3hr pace and see what the day brings.  I'm right on the bubble.

                                Vanhalen: Nice job on the 10k! With that time you definitely have the fitness for a sub 3. My 10k prior to my sub 3 was a 38:59. Funny you did a 10k time trial today; I ran a 10k race this morning! Not as fast as you though, 38:04.

                                 

                                I saw Van Halen with Sammy on the For Unlawful Carnal Knowledge tour in 92 and Balance tour in 95, then with Gary Cherone in 98. That was a bit weird but he did a decent job I'd say. I was familiar with Cherone from his previous band Extreme, a Van Halen-like band also with a superb guitarist (Nuno Bettencourt). I never did see them with DLR. I know a lot of people have strong feelings on Sammy vs David Lee Roth but for me the focus was always onthe guitar and music in general, and for vocals I always thought Sammy was pretty good.

                                5K: 17:55 (2017)    HM: 1:23:57 (2016)    FM: 2:52:16 (2018)

                                Up next: Erie Marathon (Sept. 8)