Forums >Racing>2018 Sub-3. No rules. Run.
RIP Milkman
Andres - Your race report made me a little sad with your sentiment, but I totally get it. I cannot imagine what you guys went through in that weather. I do 8-10 mile runs in that weather maybe three times a year, and each time I'm so miserable that I wonder why I even bother. I've come home from them with the inability to even get my shoes off because my hands are so frozen, with my forearms in such pain that every single drop of rain on them feels like someone is stabbing you. I don't know what it must be like for a race where you have to finish in order to get to your bag, especially for Boston where it's a straight line and you can't find a faster route to get to it. I think you really were in great shape and the weather just took it out of you, and there's no reason to be down and out about that. Not everybody can run in that temperature with driving wind and rain like that for a marathon.
New York is 6.5 months away: take a break and see how you feel, there's nothing wrong with that.
5K: 16:37 (11/20) | 10K: 34:49 (10/19) | HM: 1:14:57 (5/22) | FM: 2:36:31 (12/19)
Andres - Your race report made me a little sad with your sentiment, but I totally get it. I cannot imagine what you guys went through in that weather. I do 8-10 mile runs in that weather maybe three times a year, and each time I'm so miserable that I wonder why I even bother. I've come home from them with the inability to even get my shoes off because my hands are so frozen, with my forearms in such pain that every single drop of rain on them feels like someone is stabbing you. I don't know what it must be like for a race where you have to finish in order to get to your bag, especially for Boston where it's a straight line and you can't find a faster route to get to it. I think you really were in great shape and the weather just took it out of you, and there's no reason to be down and out about that. Not everybody can run in that temperature with driving wind and rain like that for a marathon. New York is 6.5 months away: take a break and see how you feel, there's nothing wrong with that.
Sorry about that. Yeah, you're right, what I wrote was quite depressing. Usually the day after I finish a marathon, even if it's a terrible one, I've come around to setting aside the pain and finding some enjoyment in it, ready for the next one. I probably need a little more time after yesterday's battle. I can't really accept "just getting through yesterday" was a big victory (as it relates to me, specifically). In part, it's because others managed to hold back less and do better in comparison, while I held back more, and still crumbled. But more importantly, I got myself in the best shape as possible to run a good race with nothing to show for it in the end.
Hopefully I can find the motivation to get ready for NYC, despite the terrible time of year to train for it.
Upcoming races: Boston
Oh for sure. I try not to congratulate people too much for just finishing because I know if I went out there and missed my goal by 30 minutes, I would be pretty pissed off too and wouldn't want to hear it. But sometimes you need to be outside of the race to sense what it means even to just power through it. I've been fortunate in that all of my goal races have had at worst slightly warm temps (low to mid 60's) which is nothing compared to what you guys went through. However, I can only imagine the absolute feeling of dejection to know you put in a ridiculously good cycle only to have it ruined EVERY. SINGLE. YEAR. It could make anybody want to say "fuck this I'm done wasting countless hours on this stupid sport."
Sorry about that. Yeah, you're right, what I wrote was quite depressing. Usually the day after I finish a marathon, even if it's a terrible one, I've come around to setting aside the pain and finding some enjoyment in it, ready for the next one. I probably need a little more time after yesterday's battle. I can't really accept "just getting through yesterday" was a big victory (as it relates to me, specifically). In part, it's because others managed to hold back less and do better in comparison, while I held back more, and still crumbled. But more importantly, I got myself in the best shape as possible to run a good race with nothing to show for it in the end. Hopefully I can find the motivation to get ready for NYC, despite the terrible time of year to train for it.
You probably are on a let down right now. Hopefully some time will help.
I hesitate to write this because I hope you'll bounce back more quickly. I've been struggling with motivation since Boston last year. I felt like I trained well, but it was a short cycle due to coming back from injury. But the heat and dehydration got me and I bombed to a 3:50. I too was fine not re-qualifying. I took some time off, had another minor injury, but got back into training when my running buddy signed up for a full and started some bigger miles. Then I signed up for a full and trained for that. However, I was never nearly as motivated as when I wanted my first sub-3. I struggled again (last month) and finished with a 3:20. That actually is a BQ for me, but I can't get excited about training for anything right now.
I have a couple of friends who signed up for a fall race and telling me I should join them. If I was motivated, I would sign up for that and Boston. Then use the fall race to improve my seeding for Boston. But starting another cycle isn't too appealing right now.
Anyway, it's probably good you have NY on the schedule. Take a break and then jump back in and you'll do well there.
Got mine, btw. 2:56 in the monsoon yesterday.
- Joe
We are fragile creatures on collision with our judgment day.
Mmmm Bop
Sorry to hear that Andres. Maybe the Boston course profile just doesn’t suit you and might be better off on a flatter course (you did well in Barcelona). You could always find another marathon next month rather than start from scratch again for NYC as I think your current fitness is low 2:50s and it would be a shame not to take advantage of that.
Weatherboy - Congrats and great job pacing your mate to Sub3!
5k - 17:53 (4/19) 10k - 37:53 (11/18) Half - 1:23:18 (4/19) Full - 2:50:43 (4/19)
Matt - I hope I bounce back sooner too. In fact, my goal is to continue to run an annual marathon for quite some time. I'm actually quite careful in my cycles not to go super crazy to avoid extreme burnout. So while this cycle I had was my best to date, I do think I still balanced things well. I'm also careful not to get attached to strict time goals. I liked getting myself in to sub 2:55 shape and obviously would have been thrilled to get a low 2:50 time. But I'm very careful not to obsess about that or a goal of something like sub 2:50.
Mikkey - I think you're right about Boston not being best suited for me. Or at least I haven't been as ready as I could have been the past two years. One theory I have is that my quads just don't get trained as well as they should with my normal running. I can handle the uphills fine, but the big downhills hurt (Barcelona has more elevation gain than Boston, but considerably less loss). The one year I did well on the Boston course, I had a year of heavy weight lifting, doing tons of squats and other leg work, which probably helped me a good deal in handling the downhills.
While I won't be jumping in to a marathon in the next month or so, I'm also not taking a big chunk of time off. I was enjoying doing the track work at the end of this last cycle, and am looking forward to doing more. I'm also looking forward to "long runs" of around 12 miles.
A lot of guys I run with here are much more short distance focused. When they do build up for a marathon, the only thing they really alter is the length of their long runs, while the workouts are still better suited for shorter stuff (and the mileage is on the lower end, even lower than mine). While I recognize that this isn't ideal marathon training, I might give it a shot for NYC. I may enjoy it better, especially in the summer heat. Daily 8-10 milers in 80 degrees and 100% humidity won't get me interested in running a marathon!
Mother of Cats
I thought I held back early enough and by enough. I obviously didn't. Either I wasn't anywhere close to the shape that I thought I was in, or the cold was doing something else to me. Maybe my muscles were working harder than I could realize trying to stay warm? I dunno.
Hi - delurking. I ran Boston also - thought I was in low 3s shape; ran 3:12. I also started cautiously. I really think that this was one year NOT to hold back too much. The more conservative you were early on, the colder you stayed, and the harder it was to pick it up later. I wish I had picked up the effort more after about 5-6, instead of conserving energy for the hills.
Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.
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That's an interesting theory. I guess if our bodies were using up energy trying to keep our muscles warm, holding back would require even more energy? What was saved by dialing back was offset and then some by the need to work harder to stay warm? Having last sat (slept) through a biology class in 1993, seems to make sense to me.
All I know was that the pace seemed super comfortable early, and even more comfortable when I dialed things back more thinking I was playing it smart. It was just the nasty conditions that made being outside miserable, and therefore the whole time on the road miserable. Had the weather been normal, I'm convinced that at that effort it would have seemed easier than a majority of my long runs.
I agree. I didn't watch the replay yet, still trying to find it online. But I did see Yuki go "bezerker" out of the gate like a madman, and I thought that it may have been his strategy to get his body temp up early on, knowing the city was bringing the worst. Those conditions at HMP are much more manageable.
Mikkey - thanks for tracking!
IAM/Strugglr/Weatherboy - Nice work guys!
Andres - marathons can be humbling... nothing is as humbling as a Boston Marathon... you've got to deal with so many other variables other than hydration/nutrition and race strategy, the whole logistics, weather and course profile throw in so many complexities. It makes it an even more beautiful struggle. You'll want to go back for redemption, I say you run another before September, just something low key and local, more or less a hard workout to re-qualify and build up some confidence for NYC. Cross the half at 1:30 and negative split, ink a sub-3 in the books for the year.
I am happy with my race in hindsight. I only had a few things that I would like to change, if possible. I could not go to the bathroom before the race and it required me to stop again (also happened in 2015, maybe weather anxiety?) at mile 19 for about 2 minutes. Then when I came out of the port-a-potty, I had decided to give my plastic poncho to a guy that was struggling, and ran in my long sleeve shirt and singlet. I found myself fighting worse conditions in the final 10K, and then got cold and wet real fast. The guy I gave the poncho to, blew past me at mile 22 looking like a stallion! I was fighting for survival and regretting giving it up, all the way to the finish. I didn't look at my watch the last 3 miles, I did not care what time I crossed the finish line, 3:04:01, I should have sprinted for a 3:03:XX. I ended up in the med tent since the bag check process was so back up... Darkwave wrote about it in her blog. I ran about 4 weeks with about 98.9 mpw average in March, so I was in good shape, possibly sub-2:55 shape. I did have a groin injury which led me to taper very quickly, last three weeks mileage was 80, 20, 50. I felt super fresh and peppy at the start, I don't feel very sore today and feel like I could get back to training sooner, either because I didn't run as hard, or because of the higher mileage cycle, or both.
https://www.strava.com/athletes/2507437
PR's - 5K - 17:57 (2017) | 10K - 38:06 (2016) | 13.1 1:23:55 (2019) | 26.2 2:58:46 (2017)
2020 Goals - Sub-2:55 Marathon Up Next: TBD, Boston on 9/14?
Fly I watched this one on Youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcbZsi8W4tY
Very hardcore conditions. Boston has that potential and this sounds like one of the worst weather wise. Hope everyone recovers well.
55+ PBs 5k 18:36 June 3rd TT
" If you don't use it you lose it, but if you use it, it wears out.
Somewhere in between is about right "
Laura
Checking in to say kudos to all on the races this past weekend- a whole lot of fury, heartbreak, success (even in smaller ways).
JT - While 3:02 doesn't match the goals or fitness, still a solid time and killer placement too. Sounds like it was just a crap weather weekend all around for racing- character building for sure.
Swim- Nice 75 mw! Love those long workouts with the 3/2/1 cutdown paces in there
Fin- How you feeling for London (aside from the forecast)? Agree with things said, hydrate early and often (and even up your normal hydration at this point in the week). Have you ever taken salt tabs? They've helped in hot/sunny races for me before and it's not really something you need to really practice taking (not like you're trying new food or fuel or something).
Weatherboy- kudos on pacing friend to sub-3, I'm in awe of some of those times coming out of Monday's race!
Andres- So, I'll kind of tell you what I've said to some friends. You 100% cannot judge your fitness level from Monday's race. Does it suck? Yes. Is it okay to kick rocks a bit and allow yourself to be mad...yes. Feel it, get it out and then you'll move forward. But seriously, you're in great shape and Monday doesn't change it. Agree with Mikkey about possibly finding something to capitalize on the fitness you do have right now. If not though, hit the reset and hammer to NYC.
Joe- Congrats on 2:56!
Last week was a bit of a shit show for me- it started great but ended up crumbling on Friday. I usually have one solid shitshow per training cycle and this was it...I think a combo of busy/stress/PPD still lingering(for the record, PPD/PP Anxiety is no joke). There's a time I would have made myself stick 100% to the plan, and there was a time I would have allowed myself to say F it and just throw the plan out the window totally for a few days or longer. I took the middle (smarter) road and adjusted, gave myself some breathing room, but then made myself pull the boots up and get back to it. Was about 10 miles short for the week but I'm trying to look at it as a silver lining and a bigger taper for the half this coming weekend. I took Monday off for spectating Boston and doing a lighter week this week with workout tonight, hoping to run somewhere between 1:24-26 on Sunday. Whatever I run I'm gonna use as my gauge for Buffalo Marathon goal- only a few more weeks to go.
Pre-Baby PR's (all from 2015): 5k: 18:46 10k: 38:37 HM: 1:24:51 FM: 2:58:13
Postpartum PR's: 5k: 18:18 (2018) HM: 1:21:14 (2019) FM: 2:57:02 (2019)
Next Up: Unsure - but most likely some solo TT's
{Strava}{IG}
Never so happy to be back in Florida! Won't complain about the heat too much (well for now) after that one on Monday. Never have I been so cold after a race/run than I was waiting for gear check. There were alot of folks in trouble there as it was a good wait for some. Thinking a hotel near the finish is a must next time I decide to this. Anyways, still pretty happy with my time even though I decided to drop back just a bit and do the pacing gig this time as this was not a race (for me) to try and hammer. I'm confident I wouldn't have run much more than a few minutes faster anyways as evidenced by my cramping hammy's down Bolyston.
Think our key was not getting too cold in AV as we decided to wear many layers and stand (sipping coffee) in order to keep moving just a bit versus sitting on the cold damp ground. We never were shivering like so many other runners we saw. Dropped the last bit of clothes at the starting line, but still ran in running tights (got soaked), shorts over top, a dry fit short sleeve, arm sleeves, and then another sleeve dry-fit on top that grew about 2-3 sizes during the run with water. Wore 2 pairs of gloves and when the outer layer got soaked ended up getting rid of those about 6-7 miles in. On top had a tight beanie with a winter skull cap on top for two layers on the head. Shoes did pretty well all things considered, but every part of the body was layered in vaseline from the get go.
We decided early on to just run the first few miles at a conservative effort (still well under 7 pace) due to the crowding and then pick it up where we could later on. Stayed with similar pacing packs for most of the race with tiny surges to pass folks here and there which could have helped keep me warm enough. Pretty steady pacing all the way through the hills with the squalls and gusts being the hardest to handle (was insanely heavy rain for that temperature though)! Ran the hills at an even effort and with the exception of heartbreak don't think the grade adjusted pace ever slipped too much. We were able to pick it back up to from 22-24, but he started to struggle a bit from 24 onward and his pace dropped. I stayed with him and tried to block the wind a bit more, but once we got about to the final 1/2 mile I noticed some of my muscles starting to lock up so I decided to push my pace back up since I knew he had sub 3 in the bag. Didn't want to totally lock up myself!
I'm definitely ready for a break from the marathon for a bit. Will run Boston again next year for sure, but still wondering if it is destined to be a goal race course for me. Leaning towards that being a yes and hoping that the 3rd time is a charm with the weather? Would like to make the upcoming fall all about the half marathon tsince I feel I'm close to a huge PR there. Hoping to be able to bounce back fairly quickly and capitalize on this current fitness in some local 5K's that I've got coming up in about 3 weeks. No serious workouts probably for a good week though
Most of all congrats to everyone who finished or attempted to even run on Monday and to JT for running in similar nasty conditions over the weekend!
1mile: 4:46 (12/20) | 5K: 15:57 (3/21) | 10K: 33:40 (4/20) | 15K 51:43 (4/21) | HM: 1:15:03 (12/20) | FM: 2:40:30 (1/20)
Andres: I understand how Boston this year could leave you with a bad feeling. You're in sub 2:50 shape in decent weather (you ran a 79 half FFS!). It was just miserable weather and not conditions for running fast. There's plenty of time till NYC and who knows how you'll feel in a month or so.
Weatherboy: I'm very impressed how you paced your friend to 2:57 in those conditions and feel you still had several minutes more in the tank. That bodes really well for whatever the next marathon is. You've still got a lot of time to drop off your already fast 2:48 PR!
Fly: Great job on your race as well, especially with that pit stop and giving up your poncho (very generous of you).
Darkwave: Great to see you here! Congrats on your 3:12 at Boston.
Lela: That still looks like a solid week to me. The Tuesday workout was huge, so you may have still been feeling that on Friday. For me that Tuesday workout would have been it for the week as far as quality! I am always amazed how many people on here can pack multiple hard workouts into a week. Good luck on your half this weekend!
Finbad: My advice for a hot race day would be pack as much gatorade in your gut as you can before the start. If your stomach can handle that, it will help take some pressure off getting significant volume at the water stops.
Mikkey: Is it a go for Sunday? That 5k you had recently shows you have good fitness!
I'm dealing now with what seems to be a strained calf (soleus) muscle. Around 4 miles into the marathon I stepped on the edge of a pothole and sort of turned my foot. I felt some torque in my calf when it happened but was able to continue running fine and it did not really present itself until I finished. At that point both calves were sore and again I did not think much of it, mostly because I was freezing my a$$ off. When I got home and took my sweats off, it was really swollen. I was struggling to walk on it the next couple of days. It's getting better each day, but will probably be a while till I can run again. Anybody have any experience/advice for this type of injury? It's pretty annoying since I am otherwise not sore at all and wanting to enjoy some stress-free, nice and easy post-marathon running!
2:52:16 (2018)
Fly I watched this one on Youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcbZsi8W4tY Very hardcore conditions. Boston has that potential and this sounds like one of the worst weather wise. Hope everyone recovers well.
Thanks Piwikiwi, it's gone now... copyright protected by BAA. I got to watch it in full earlier in the day.