Forums >Racing>2018 Sub-3. No rules. Run.
RIP Milkman
Weather - makes sense. I can tell I’m already acclimating to this summer, but this will be a different kind of heat. How do you do quality work super early in the morning? I feel like I need to eat before doing something like MP work, but then that means I’d have to get up at 4 am, which I am not doing any time soon to run.
JT - Sunday it is. The thing is, it’s not going to be much better Saturday or really any day later this week, so it’s not like I can just move my workout. I’m going to stick with the plan of just bailing out after 6 @ MP.
5K: 16:37 (11/20) | 10K: 34:49 (10/19) | HM: 1:14:57 (5/22) | FM: 2:36:31 (12/19)
JMAC - I guess it depends on the length of the Q run as I can get away with eating just a bit (kind bar, 1/2 bagel, or some light oatmeal) within 45 min of starting my warm up. Sometimes if I'm running anything under 10 or so miles, even with light quality, I won't anything other than a bit of coffee and water. Longer MP work or mixed Daniel's LR I'll certainly lean towards a full plan bagel still sometimes within an hour of starting. Most of the Q runs will start about 45 after I get up though. I know some folks need alot longer than that though.
1mile: 4:46 (12/20) | 5K: 15:57 (3/21) | 10K: 33:40 (4/20) | 15K 51:43 (4/21) | HM: 1:15:03 (12/20) | FM: 2:40:30 (1/20)
Yeah I think the Daniels mixed stuff I need a full meal so I don't know how I would even run early enough.
Regarding Sunday and the heat - do you find that shorter tempo work is easier? I can do one of two workouts:
1) 2E + 6M + 1E + 6M + 1E (originally planned workout)
2) 8E + 3T + rest + 2T + rest + 2E
I'm thinking workout number 2 might be better in extreme heat because you're not running for as long, which gives you time to cool down during the rest period. Or are they both as difficult just because 3T is much harder effort and therefore it won't be any easier than that split MP workout
Thoughts?
JMac: I'm not sure about those Daniels long run workouts; I only do 10 at MP within a LR maybe once or twice a cycle and it nearly does me in, but I would say just getting out the door and doing a 16 or 18 mi long run in tomorrow's heat/humidity is enough of a workout/stress on the system on its own, let alone putting in 12 mi at MP or 5 mi at T. You're at the beginning of your cycle; you'll have plenty of reasonable weather opportunities to his those big LR workouts. If it was me, the stress to my system and resultant extended recovery necessary to get over it would not be worth any potential training benefit from hitting that LR workout versus just doing an easy pace LR and being good to go a couple days later. Just my perhaps overly-cautious advice; I've always despised heat & humidity so take what I say with that grain of salt. Just be careful tomorrow!
2:52:16 (2018)
I second this. If it was me, I'd call 10mi at 8:30 pace a huge victory. Both of the workouts you list would be really difficult in the conditions you describe, and even forcing my way through half of it would cause me to be depleted for several days. Like JT, maybe I'm overly cautious.
Upcoming races: Boston
JMAC you can easily get heat stroke in conditions like that. I’d probably do the WO on the treadmill maybe
71 this week
mon 10 7:29
Tue 10.5 with 1 mile T 5:55, 3x300 (54,53,52) 3x200 (33,32,32)
3x100 (16,14,15) 1 mile much to fast 5:25
wed 10 7:36
thurs 10 7:29
fri 10 7:26
sat 8.5 with 2x4x200 (31,34,32,33) and (32,32,31,30.4).
Sun 12 7:18
im about as ready as I can be for this mile. So we ll see
HM: 1/17 1:18:53. FM: 12/18 2:46:04
Swim - Another great week, putting up 70+ for a mile race is absurd.
Me - Thanks everyone for advice. I ended up going with workout 2. Temp was 95 out the door with dew point of 69. I figured I would see how I felt after 8E and just bail out if needed, but I ended up feeling okay. Key was stopping every 2 miles for water, which kept me pretty well hydrated and gave me 20 seconds to cool down a bit. My T work was 20-30 seconds slower than usual, and the last mile of T felt like death, but I got it done. I guess I'm pretty well heat acclimated at this point in the summer.
Weekly SummaryMonday, Jun 25, 2018 thru Sunday, Jul 01, 2018
JMAC: awesome job getting it done in conditions like that. Heck I'd even call that pretty hot myself
Swim: You will kill that mile. Solid week as usual for you! Based on your mile time at the tail end of the workout things look really solid!
Have a July 4 5K coming up this week. Don't expect much from this race since it includes 2 bridge repeats and starts well after sunrise so temps will already be crazy warm so will just go out and try to hang on for position.
Last week went pretty well although it felt like the humdiity went up another notch. The 16 X 200 really took me by surprise as I thought it would be a pretty easy workout on paper and even after a few reps doesn't feel too bad, but really hurt after about 8 or 9 of them. Thinking the heat, somewhat tired legs, and short recovery periods made it much tougher than expected. Think it's a good base speed workout though.
Weekly Summary Monday, Jun 25, 2018 thru Sunday, Jul 01, 2018
Weather - Good week. I have to say, I think I actually will take warmer temperatures in the afternoon. I find that it doesn't feel as hot to me, mainly because of the breeze that picks up. I'm not sure how prevalent it is where you are, but in NY, there is generally 0 wind in the morning, but the afternoon usually is around 10 MPH. That breeze can often make the difference to me, and I'll take that over completely stagnant air in the morning.
I think (or really, I hope) I found out what's been ailing me for so long: a weak/injured psoas. I haven't felt fully right since December of 2015 when I had some sort of tear or strain deep in my lower abdomen. The doctor I went to at the time ruled out hernia, but couldn't quite figure it out. I'm thinking now that it was a tear or other injury to my psoas (and that "stitch" feeling in my lower abdomen is still there). Soon after that (March 2016) is when I had the tear in my hamstring. From what I understand, a tight psoas can make your hamstrings, quads and groin super tight (which maybe is why my hamstring has not ever fully recovered?). Ever since that time, that entire area has been so tight, that it makes keeping any sustained training nearly impossible. I can string a few weeks together with decent training, but it eventually gets to a point where things are so tight that an 8 mile run at a moderate (not fast) pace is too painful.
This could also explain why I've struggled these past years with longer runs and the marathon. From what I understand, the psoas is activated the most with faster running (and running up hills). I generally like having my long runs run at a moderate to faster pace. That's fine up to a point, but after 15 miles or so, I guess my psoas would get too overworked and start to rebel. Could also explain my melt downs in Boston--the timing of the hills being such that it really wreaks havoc on an already overworked psoas so that the last 5 miles are a complete and utter sufferfest (despite keeping things in control aerobically in the first 20 miles--it's my legs that just give up).
Again, I really hope that I've finally diagnosed this correctly, and fixing this will bring me back on track to improving my race times. It's been 2.5 years now since I've enjoyed running fast. I've really struggled putting together decent training. I've had some ok races sprinkled in there (mainly in the half and 5k distances though), but I've felt like I've still fallen short of my potential in all distances.
My plan is to do super easy short runs for the next 4 to 6 weeks along with stretching, massage and strength exercises at home for the psoas. If that seems to fix it, I'll slowly build back up. As of now, my plan is to still do NYC. My guess is that it will be hard to build up in a short period of time to do something even in the 3-3:20 range, so my goal could end up being in the 3:30-45 range (which is totally fine by me, assuming I've correctly diagnosed this and I'm back to enjoying training and am improving). I'll drop back in here once (if) I feel like I'm back to this level of running/training.
Keep up the great racing and training!
Andres - First of all, this is great news if true! I hope you've figured it out, I know you've been down and out about running. Do you plan on working with a PT at all? I don't trust doctors for running injuries (it's always tests and "don't run" which is useless), but PTs have worked wonders for me. Second, stick around, even if you aren't anywhere near sub 3 shape. Always good to have you here. Plus, as you said, you have way more potential than your times show, so hopefully that motivates you as you come back assuming all goes well.
Thanks, JMac11. Yeah, I stopped going to the doctor a little over a year ago when he told me that I was getting older and that was the cause of my problem (in fairness to him, he said it was part of the issue, not the issue--but it was enough for me not to go back. My wife still gives me crap about that, since I thought he was awesome up until that point). I've been seeing a chiropractor for about 18 months. He's good, and primarily does deep tissue massage and dry needling on areas that are overly tight. He's the one that mentioned to me that it could be the psoas (yesterday) and if so, he thinks he can fix it. Fingers crossed.
Swim: Good luck in the mile, you are ready to put down a fast time.
JMac: Great job getting it done with the LR! That is super impressive under the conditions. It felt like an inferno stepping outside Sunday afternoon.
Weatherboy: Another Impressive week for you. 16 200s sounds like a lot, especially in 34-36 sec, so I can see how it would hurt for the last few. I know it's been said many times before but I can't imagine running routinely in temps/humidity like you do. Dew points have gotten into the 70-75 range here lately and it seems unbearable to me, for you it would probably seem normal or even a bit chilly . Good luck on your 5k.
Andres: That is indeed great news if you finally figured out the cause. I hope your chiro and you can get it back to full strength! On a related note, I found out not too long ago I have a double hernia, one on each side (one inguinal, one femoral), and based on X-rays I happened to have for kidney stones in late 2016, I have had both since at least then, although they were not diagnosed till recently. This explains the hip pain from what my PT and doctor thought was a strained iliopsoas muscle on either side at various points in the last couple years. Recently I noticed a small sort of bump on each side of the lower groin, which would come and go, and that is what prompted me to get it checked out. I will probably get surgery to take care of them after my fall marathon (it is a fairly minor procedure) since they will not reverse and will only get worse with time.
My week: I was happy with the effort on Wednesday's session, which was on dirt roads with rolling hills. Sunday I just could not manage a planned 20 mile long run and stopped at 8 miles. At the time I though it was just the heat/humidity but I developed a cold later in the day so that may have contributed to my lack of energy. Nothing like a cold in hot summer weather. I'm hoping I will be able to run through it; this morning's easy run felt ok so that is a good sign.
Hi Sub-3 folk!
Just ran 3:00:07 at Gold Coast, QLD, Aust. Short version of training was I followed Pfitzinger 18 week, more than 85 miles a week plan.
That was my fourth mara, history is 2014 3.28, 2015 3.12, 2016 3.03, 2017 couldnt get to the start line due to various injuries, 2018 3.00. Each time basically did Pfitz, although only adopted the plan halfway through the first campaign, second was 70 miles version, last two 85+.
I managed to just about hit paces for his formula based on (this time) 4.15 per km for the race, ie long runs 20 percent down to 10 percent slower, and tempos and intervals based on equivalent 5k and 15k to half marathon pace.
My opinion is this plan works for me, if I have the time available and can stay relatively injury free. Maybe next time will try to do a bit more marathon pace kms. This time around I did 3 HMs in place of the MP runs and the tune up half, and ran two of them to marathon pace instead of racing. I think the plan actually had 3 x MP long runs, and one HM tune up race either way more than that might be required...Oh and next time I am going to try to train to 2.55 paces...LOL this time I trained to 3.00 hr pace and funnily enough I achieved that almost exactly :-)
Either way because I follow such a plan, all the other folk I know or see on strava bar one or two, train at faster paces and race shorter distances faster than I do. All I do different to most is more kms!! Each time around I get this, and I tend to lose a bit of confidence...like I cant go sub 19 for 5km, or sub 39 for 10k, or sub 1.27 for the half..And I run my 35kms average 4.57 per km, and these guys are doing 4.30s,how the heck am I going to do sub 3?
But...now after that last race, I believe, guys, I really believe! So close I could see, hear and almost taste it...I have the memory of running down the long shute at GCAM and hearing the announcer calling "20 seconds to go, thats gun time, some of these guys might still get net" etc.
Too early to say when my next attempt will be. Some do Melbourne in October but I might hold off due to general life matters, theres a good one in Noosa in May next year I hear..
Anyway good luck all, Run!
Djs great race. Those happen to be the initials one or one my best friends back home.
79 this week with a really disappointing day on wed.
mon 10 with strides 7:42
tue 8 with strides
wed 6.5 with a half mile in 2:23. Bailed on the race because I’m soft. Yelled at myself as I saw the winner cross in 4:48 which I know I can do. Watch Pat Casey and Aaron Braun 4:12 which is just obscenely fast at 7000 ft. Drove to the park ran another angry 2:24 half mile and then finished with an even angrier 29.6 200.
Thurs 10 7:31
fri 14 7:13
sat 10 7:30
sun 20 7:05
a couple transition weeks and then I’ll start the build to California International. Coach s goal between Christmas and the mile was to piece me back together after the injury and then try to get me a little speedier which will make all the threshold stuff feel easier during the marathon cycle. I would say that was accomplished despite not finishing off the race. I have big goals and maybe I can still get there.
Andres glad you may have found out what’s going on. Hopefully that means your on the mend.