Forums >Racing>2018 Sub-3. No rules. Run.
djs: Nice job on the 3-flat. You should be able to get it the next time around.
Swim: 54 miles in the last 4 days?! Nice job. No big deal about the mile race; your training has gone great the last 6-7 months and you're set up well for your marathon cycle. It would be great though if you could knock out a 1600m or 1-mile time trial at the track, just to cash in all the nice mile training you've done. I had a lot of fun doing a few 1-mile TTs last fall, though mine were way slower than what you would do.
I was sick most of this week; ran through it on Tuesday and Wednesday, which likely made it worse. I felt really lousy Thurs and Friday and took those days off. Really bad cough which just tore up my abs, they are still sore. I felt better on the weekend and managed to run with my boy yesterday and do a LR today.
I just got the Pfitzinger book, and am really enjoying reading it. I think of the 3 main schools of training (Daniels, Hansons and Pfitz) my own preference lines up best with Pfitz. I really like how he explains everything; it all makes complete sense. I realize I may be doing my LRs too slow; his idea of doing them 10-20% slower than MP makes sense (thus why my LR today was faster than usual for me). I may incorporate some of his ideas into my training.
Weekly SummaryMonday, Jul 02, 2018 thru Sunday, Jul 08, 2018
2:52:16 (2018)
djs: Nice job on the 3-flat. You should be able to get it the next time around. Swim: 54 miles in the last 4 days?! Nice job. No big deal about the mile race; your training has gone great the last 6-7 months and you're set up well for your marathon cycle. It would be great though if you could knock out a 1600m or 1-mile time trial at the track, just to cash in all the nice mile training you've done. I had a lot of fun doing a few 1-mile TTs last fall, though mine were way slower than what you would do. I was sick most of this week; ran through it on Tuesday and Wednesday, which likely made it worse. I felt really lousy Thurs and Friday and took those days off. Really bad cough which just tore up my abs, they are still sore. I felt better on the weekend and managed to run with my boy yesterday and do a LR today. I just got the Pfitzinger book, and am really enjoying reading it. I think of the 3 main schools of training (Daniels, Hansons and Pfitz) my own preference lines up best with Pfitz. I really like how he explains everything; it all makes complete sense. I realize I may be doing my LRs too slow; his idea of doing them 10-20% slower than MP makes sense (thus why my LR today was faster than usual for me). I may incorporate some of his ideas into my training. Weekly SummaryMonday, Jul 02, 2018 thru Sunday, Jul 08, 2018 Day Miles Pace Description Egain Link Tue 10.1 8:06 Morning Run / sick 506 strava Wed 12.0 8:27 Morning Run / coughing up a lung 592 strava Sat 6.1 8:42 Morning Run with Matthew 379 strava Sun 20.0 7:28 Long run 768 strava
The pfitz book was basically my life for 2 years. I still run pretty much every non quality LR like a Pete and Scott say I should. I love to try to see how much I can negative split them. Today’s was over 6 minutes. Enjoy the read the book is still phenomenal. Hope you feel better
HM: 1/17 1:18:53. FM: 12/18 2:46:04
RIP Milkman
Swim - Sorry to hear about the race. Not to beat a dead horse, but any insight into what happened? I agree with JT though, just get out on the track and see what can be done, it would be a shame not to find out what sort of time you can throw up there given your training.
JT - I can't believe you didn't have that book yet! I definitely think you're more of a Pfitz guy based on what I've seen with your training. His long runs can be very challenging, but there's something to be said about speeding up. The thing is though, those runs are almost too challenging in the weather we've been having (except this past weekend). I naturally speed up during my long runs, which follow his ideas, but there is no way I could speed up 10% if TDP is 150+ like it has been.
Me - First full week in the books. Very happy with both Q sessions. The M pace work actually came out much faster than I expected given the weather of 155 TDP, averaging around 6:38. Sunday's TLT was also good as the weather was perfect for this time of year. My easy miles within that middle L block were also faster than usual and progressed during the run.
Overall, I'm very happy with where I am even to start, but I know that the thing about marathon training is that the fatigue just gets worse, meaning this may be a tease and my paces will either slow down or not progress, which I'm completely okay with. I'll be bumping up mileage a bit this week, followed by a down week in 2 weeks with a 5K thrown in there to get a fitness test in.
5K: 16:37 (11/20) | 10K: 34:49 (10/19) | HM: 1:14:57 (5/22) | FM: 2:36:31 (12/19)
JMAC: looks like a solid Daniels 2Q first week to me. You might be a bit surprised and see your paces hold or even speed up a bit come early fall.
JT: Started with Pfitz last year and still solidily believe alot of what he claims. It was really the first orgranized training strcuture I used. Whether you use him or Daniels though I think the consistency is what is key. Plus I do like the idea of lots of progressions especially for LR's myself. Huge LR for you especially coming off the cold.
Swim: no worries on the race. Seems like it was all mental. Think you could throw down a nice fast time as evidenced by your 1/2 mile angry runs and block of training
Djs: Nice marathon!
Andres: Glad you hopefully got the issue sorted out.
Me: Pretty happy with my week with the highlight being the 5K I ran on July 4th that included 2 bridge climbs/decents up an over our local causeway to the barrier island. Went into the race not with an absolute time goal, but just wanted to run by a hard effort and think for the most part it went fairly well. it was certainly warm and humid, but perhaps not as bad as some recent mornings. Incidently ran my slowest split in the flat 2nd mile (5:39) compared to mile 1 (5:35) and mile 3 (5:38) which both had significant climbing/decending and finished the race in 17:29. This was good for 5th overall where each of the top 4 local runners were all 25 and under. Going by the heat and net climbing think this was perhaps my best effort of the year/season and certainly worth a sub 17 effort based on adjusted paces (heat) and most certainly on a flatter course. FInished up the week with a Daniels style MLR which included 6.5 miles at somewhere around my heat adjusted marathon pace. Plan is to take a short break from and prescibed workouts and get in all easy to moderate mileage this week.
Weekly Summary Monday, Jul 02, 2018 thru Sunday, Jul 08, 2018
1mile: 4:46 (12/20) | 5K: 15:57 (3/21) | 10K: 33:40 (4/20) | 15K 51:43 (4/21) | HM: 1:15:03 (12/20) | FM: 2:40:30 (1/20)
JMac: Nice first week of your cycle. I can tell you're on a Daniels plan with those polynomial equation-like Q workouts! Very nice job on those; good sign that you are already at 6-flat T pace at the start. And yes, I am definitely behind the curve for just now reading the Pfitz book. Better late than never!
Weather: Excellent job on the 5k. Very even pacing despite the hill climbs, and I agree that on a flat course and in cool conditions, that was worth 16-something. Enjoy the workout-free week; I know I always like those . I need to try to make a point of taking an all-easy run week every 4th week or so.
I am really loving reading Pfitzinger's book. His training philosophy is definitely the one that matches best with me.
djs: Great marathon. Really nice trend in race times over the years. The Pfitz plan seems to be working well for you!
I ran the Afton Trail Run 25K race last Saturday. This is the race I had posted about earlier, where I developed a friendly rivalry with another runner; we traded off being the Sr. Master (over-50) Male Champion the last 3 years. He wasn't there this year, and I was able to get the AG win.
The race occurred near the end of week 5 of the Pfitz 18/85 marathon plan I am trying to follow, so I modified the marathon plan during the week leading up to the race to allow for some rest and recovery (but not enough for a full race effort). I was trying to balance doing well at the race with maintaining my marathon training. With the heat, humidity, and some cumulative fatigue building in my legs, I wasn't able to run my fastest race, but I backed off on the effort level early on, and I paced myself to a decent finish. There is a course map with an elevation plot below it at this link: https://www.aftontrailrun.com/maps-and-data/ There is a series of 7 or 8 hill climbs and descents of about 200'-250' throughout the course, which winds through hills and trees at a state park located adjacent a downhill ski area. It's really a beautiful, tough course.
I am easing back into the plan, hoping to get over 70 miles this week, and then to build up from there. I'll probably top out my mileage in the mid-70's per week (rather than get to the full 85) by skipping some of the "doubles" in the schedule, but am otherwise committed to following the plan until the Twin Cities Marathon in October. It would be nice to post a sub-3 hour marathon.
I hope everyone is handling the heat and humidity, and maybe even enjoying the summer.
Subdood: Congrats on that AG win; looks like a very tough course with all those hills. Hope the training is going well.
Seems like this thread may be bottoming out but I will post my week anyway . It was a mixed bag. I had a really lousy Wednesday session. Was supposed to be 4 mi at T pace, so about 6:10-ish for me but I struggled to average 6:27. Just felt dead from the start. It was warm and very humid, and perhaps I still was feeling my long run. Anyway, not a great confidence booster. I managed a decent hilly MLR and a decent long run today with a bit of a progression at the end, and in nasty humidity (DP of 70, with temps going from 71 to 79). I drank 48 oz during the run, and another 32 immediately after, and still weighed about 5 lbs less than normal.
Weekly SummaryMonday, Jul 09, 2018 thru Sunday, Jul 15, 2018
Dood - Nice race. Are you on Strava? Always good to have more people to follow!
Weather - Sorry for the super delay but nice week last week. Can you maybe put up your race schedule in a signature so I remember what you’re training for
JT - I got my ass handed to me twice this week. However, today’s long run was really unexpected. I didn’t think it was too bad, but for some reason the heat/humidity really got to me. I stopped 7 times for water during an 18 mile run which is more than usual, and I still found that I was way too thirsty during most of it. Hydrated really well beforehand too. The body is a fickle thing: some days I go out in worse TDP conditions and I kill it, but this week just knocked me down.
Mikkey - Where the hell are you? Get back on this thread and add some more life with rude comments and general snark
Me - As mentioned above, today’s run knocked me down a bit. However, Thursday’s was the worst. I hadn’t done V02 max style runs in a few months at this point, but I’ve never felt so tired as I did during the 4x400 section of the workout, which was done around mile pace. I felt like I could barely walk when I was done, and when I got home, all hell broke loose. I started getting REALLY cold even after a shower, and was dressed in thermals and sweats in my 80 degree apartment. Then, of course, the sweating started an hour later where I couldn’t stay cool no matter how much AC was on me. I had a minor fever (100.3) to accompany it. This happens to me maybe twice a year, where I have a fever and wake up fine the next day, but certainly not a great sign. I’m going to take a down week next week because a) I could use one and b) I have a 5K next Sunday that I would like to mini-taper into. I know 58 miles is nothing to people on this thread, but I think it’s starting to get to me in the heat/humidity plus the fact that my mileage base is poor for the year (still not at 1000 YTD).
JMac: That's strange with the chills and fever after your VO2 max session. Maybe it was a combination of not being used to that kind of running (according to Pfitz VO2 workouts take the most out of you; can you tell I've been reading his book ), and also some cumulative fatigue? You put down some monster Daniels workouts the week before as I recall. Anyway, the workout went well judging by the pace of the reps. Good idea though to take a down week and let your body absorb the training. I can see how you felt rough during your LR today. The heat must have been brutal at the time of day you ran it. Were you in the sun for it? For me, that makes a lot of difference. During my LR this morning, it was overcast for the first 16 miles or so, but when the sun came out at the end, it really made things much more difficult. If I had to deal with the sun for the whole thing I would have been destroyed. And BTW, 58 miles in a week is nothing to scoff at, especially when running as well as you are.
Thanks JT. I went out right as the storms were ending (idk if you got hit by them in CT) so I figured I would be okay, However, the humidity was brutal and the sun came out about halfway into my run. Have a nice sunburn to go along with it. I was intending to get out earlier but the World Cup caught my attention and I couldn’t get away. I thought 75 plus low 70’s DP would be okay, but you’re right, once the sun hits and there is no breeze, I was cooking. I actually like running in the late afternoon specifically because of the breeze: I’ll take a 10 mph breeze over 5-10 degrees cooler in the morning.
It’s interesting with V02. I feel like you’re supposed to recover fairly quickly from them, but they certainly destroy me the night of. I had done a bunch of them during the spring as I was coming back from injury and they never really killed me like this one did. I think it was just the cumulative fatigue that got to me.
Regaridng the 5K this Sunday, not expecting much given that it’s the dead middle of summer and I’m in the middle of training, but I’ll probably still go for a PR because I think it’s reachable. Plus, it’s a 5K, so it’s over quickly if I go out too fast right???
Over quickly but the pain is more intense! I'm not sure which pain is more bearable: 5k or marathon? Probably when I'm racing a 5k, I think marathon pain is much more bearable, and when running a marathon I think 5k pain is much more tolerable.
Yeah this, every time. There is no match for the pain at then end of a 5K, but the same is true for a marathon, just in different ways. I guess it’s like going up to a random person and saying would you take a level 9 pain for 5 minutes or a level 5 pain for 20 minutes? Pretty tough to answer cause they’re both awful. My 5Ks go from “this is great I feel wonderful!” To “this is awful I’d do anything to end the pain now” within literally 0.5 miles.
Subdood: BTW, congrats on your win!
JT: I'll try to keep posting Hopefully some others will chime in as we progress towards the fall. Nice solid week anyways. Really nice LR in there on Sunday!
JMAC: No wories. As for the training - nothing really on the books except for my late fall HM (in Orlando). Going to try to make that a goal fall race with a nice full training cycle that kicks off sometime in mid August or so. Since I ran 2 FM's this past spring have no strong desire to do another one just yet, but will likely make Boston 2019 my next big one I guess. Other than that just enjoying the base training volume and looking forward to some cooler 5K's and perhaps some other distances in the early fall. You could argue I'm about to head into Phase II in Daniel's HM trainig block. Nice looking week especially with the heat! No fun though with what happened after your workout. Nothign wrong with 58 miles especially with quality thrown in!
BTW - I cringe every time I get ready to run a 5K especially when compared to anything much longer or even a marathon. I'm so much more in my element when running a long distance event compared to a 5K (or shorter). Don't know what it is as the pain is pretty sharp & instense, but I just have to keep reminding myself that it is over fairly quickly.
Me: Got my biggest week in since before Boston, running pretty much EZ volume the whole week with the exception of a few quick miles on Friday afternoon and at the tail end of my LR on Sunday. This is certainly the max volume I'd ever want to try in the peak of summer though. Probably another week before I add back in a structured tempo session again.
Weekly Summary Monday, Jul 09, 2018 thru Sunday, Jul 15, 2018
JMac: I’m not on Strava and have never tried it. My fear is, I would probably like it. But I already spend too much time looking at running data and stats.
Thanks JT, JMac, weather, on the race congrats. The race director wrote up a nice (albeit lengthy) recap of the race, which celebrated its 25th running this year. I got mentioned in it (ever so briefly), which just about makes my year: https://www.aftontrailrun.com/afton-2018-recap/
Me: Just started week 7 of Pfitz. This will be my highest mileage week in at least 4 years if all goes according to plan (pushing ~80 miles). I’ve been dealing with heat, humidity, and horse flies the past couple weeks, although the heat and humidity seem to be easing up a bit (and I’m sure what we have in this area is nothing compared to other parts of the country/world). But the horse flies suck. Actually, they bite. Hard. I was running an easy effort in a wooded area last week, and I was getting bitten in the back and shoulders and neck. I took off my cap and was swatting around my head as I ran for awhile. I turned my head to look behind me at one point, and there was a SWARM of them following me like a dark cloud – maybe 30 of these nasty, biting flies in hot pursuit. My easy effort turned into a 6:00 minute pace for a short stretch while continuing to swat frantically with my cap. I hope no one was watching. I would gladly accept a little more heat and humidity if it meant no more horse flies.
Weather: Very impressive mileage for your all-easy week! You'll have a great base heading into your HM training cycle.
Subdood: Finally a fellow runner who suffers the wrath of the horseflies!! Most of my runs take me along the Housatonic River, on a dirt road at the edge of a forest, and it is beautiful but loaded with horseflies in the summer. Their ferocity and persistence seems to be directly proportional to the heat and humidity. Thus they have been pretty bad the last couple of weeks. I wear a hat all through summer, specifically to prevent them from biting my head. But as you say they just go after your shoulders & upper back. I spray that area with a bit of OFF prior to runs when I know they will be bad. But when it is really high dew point, I sweat so much that by the last few miles, the spray has probably washed away and they are able to bite again. I've cursed them countless times during runs, and sometimes, just like you mentioned, will even speed up to get away from them. I think that at sub-7 minute mile pace they can no longer stay with you, but I certainly don't hit that pace on my easy runs. At my usual easy pace of 8:00-8:30/mile, they seem to be able to stay with me for miles. The first chilly weeks of fall, when it is too cold for them to be out, are absolutely glorious.