Forums >Racing>2018 Sub-3. No rules. Run.
Subdood- With the possible exception of the marathon pace run with 5 weeks left, I think we are at the toughest part of the schedule, or more accurately I think this LT run we both have coming up Friday is brutal (also 12 w/7 at MP for me). The weather is not cooperating either, and sadly my treadmill broke (I think my last vo max workout did it in). Are you planning to do any of the tune-up races coming up?
Today was 12 w/7 at LT pace for me. It was tough, but not as brutal as the first LT workout I attempted in this plan (4 mi at LT pace, and I bailed at 3.5). I averaged around 6:35 pace, with the fastest miles at the end. Weather has helped lately, especially at 5 am! Only 65 F without much humidity — I’ll take it! I’m on the fence about the tune-up races. I may do a time trial on my own instead. We’ll see. I’ve got to get through my first-ever 24-mile training run in two days. Once I get past that, I will feel like I’m over the “hump.”
FatBoySlim is a runner! Cool!
Subdood- Yeah, I meant LT... Our schedule is pretty much the same with yours having a few extra miles. Nice job on your run. Always a good feeling when you can nail those hard runs. Mine went pretty miserably. It was low 80s with about 80% humidity. I decided to do a 1 mile warmup only, and wound up walking a bit of that and was already sweating a ton and I knew that was a bad sign.
Wound up doing 2.5 @ 6:32 then 7 minute break
2.5@6:52 then about 10 minute break
and 2@7:00. Then a miserable 4 mile cool down that I walked a lot of too. I'm hoping I can recover quickly enough for Sunday's 22 miler. Those breaks are the longest I've ever taken during a run.
5k- 18:55 (2018) 10K- 39:04 (2017) Marathon- 3:00:10 (2018)
RIP Milkman
For those running Pfitz: do you slow down when you run these 7 miles LT runs? 7 mile tempos for me would be somewhere a bit slower than half marathon pace.
Me - Week is done. Finally hit a good workout on Thursday after feeling pretty down and out about my training. Tried to eat a bigger lunch, but more importantly, actually drank a lot of water right before my workout. I’ve always felt hydrated going in and make sure to drink water during the day, but I realized that I probably have no water for 2 hours prior to my workout. I think that’s fine on normal days, but when we’re in the middle of summer with 150+ TDP, it isn’t going to cut it. Anyway, had to bail on the planned 3T at the end of my run today because this Florida sun is no joke. Weather - lots of respect for you running in this. I realized why you’re running at 6:30 or so everyday. I accidentally slept a bit too long this morning which meant I didn’t start until 7:30. By 8:30, that sun is absolutely brutal with the humidity, even though I was running on the shore with a breeze. I had nothing left at the end of 12 miles and just bailed, but given this was my highest mileage week since last year, I’m happy with how things went.
Weekly SummaryMonday, Aug 13, 2018 thru Sunday, Aug 19, 2018
5K: 16:37 (11/20) | 10K: 34:49 (10/19) | HM: 1:14:57 (5/22) | FM: 2:36:31 (12/19)
@JMac11 - I'm doing Pfitz and for LATs I do try to hit the pace recommended by Pfitz - between 15k and HM race pace. I figure out my race pace by using Daniels' VDOT tables (i.e. I determine where I think my current VDOT is and then figure out paces for LATs, VO2 max, and long runs based on that). For this cycle I'm through the 6 mile LAT but have the 7 mile one left.
I had another good week which included a 21 mile long run and a 6 mile LAT. This week calls for 89 miles with the first VO2 max workout on Wednesday and then 12 at MP on the weekend. VO2 max workout are the hardest for me so hopefully this one goes well. For the 12 at MP I'm going to do a half marathon race at MP instead.
@JMac- I believe pfitz says to run at about the speed you could hold for an hour. On a treadmill I set it to approximately 15K pace, when outside the goal is to complete the run with just about nothing in the tank... then again I only run fall marathons so I'm always running these in the heat.
Lucked out in Philly today for my 22 miler with 70 degrees and moderate rain...best running weather in a long time. 70 miles this week which is where I peak.
7 weeks out, and I'm switching over to healthier eating to try and drop some weight. Anybody else do that before an important race? Hoping to drop about 7 pounds.
Just one more point about the LT runs from Pfitz; as madison said it is supposed to be between 15k and HM race pace, but for slower runners (ie, me) it is closer to 15k race pace while for elites, it is closer to HM race pace. Personally I think 7 miles at LT, if you are truly going at the pace you could race for 1 hour, is a bit much for a workout. 7 @ HM pace is less insane but still pretty tough!
Subdood: nice job on that monster 7 @ LT. Hope the long run went well.
Slingrunner: Good idea to break up the LT run; especially in that weather. Kudos to you for even attempting in under those conditions; I would not have attempted it! Good luck with the weight loss. In my experience it is tough to lose or gain weight during a training cycle, I usually stay pretty constant.
JMac: Great week with those two ridiculous JD workouts! I'm still in awe you pulled off that Monday one; it was so hot and humid that evening. I sympathize about running in the sun; it really makes a big difference in my experience, running in the shade or better yet with overcast skies, versus in direct sunlight. It really zaps the energy.
madison: Great week! Awesome job on the 6 mi LT run @ 5:42 pace; you are really fast! Impressive long run as well.
My week went well. 80 miles, which is I think only the third time I hit that mileage, and it was only because it was a 7 day week since I took last Sunday off. I was happy with a track workout Wednesday in somewhat cooler conditions (72 deg, dew point of 64). Today's long run was in nice weather (dew point of only 61) and felt pretty good. Looking forward to some cool weather arriving by Thursday of this coming week.
2:52:16 (2018)
Sling – Thanks. Those are rough conditions for your LT run, so the appropriate pace to run would seem tough to gauge. You probably handled it as well as possible under the conditions. I’ve been running almost everything when it’s still dark out (and much cooler), so that has helped with most of my runs. If I didn’t get it done that early, it would be way too easy to skip the workouts altogether in my case. Nice job on the 22-miler today!
JMac -- The 7 at LT that I ran Friday were at my HMP (a bit slower than my PR HMP), so probably on the slow side of what is called for by Pfitz (but plenty tough for me).
Madison – Sounds like a really tough week ahead. Good luck with the VO2 and MP workouts (and the 89 miles).
JT – Thanks. Agreed that 7 at HMP is tough! If I did it closer to 15K race pace (as suggested for non-elites), it should be closer to 6:20 pace, but that sounds like an insane pace for this workout (especially during a string of hard workouts and long runs at this point in the plan). Nice week!
Me – 85.3 miles for the week, besting my prior biggest week by almost 4 miles. Finished off with a 23.5 mile run today, longest training run ever for me (the Pfitz plan called for 24 today, but I felt good about stopping when I did). I had a brief discussion yesterday with other runners about whether a 24-mile run is a good idea. I always get leg cramps in the last few miles of a marathon, and I’m hoping that pushing my long run distance will help me overcome that issue.
Big weeks out there. JTReeves nice 80 with speed and a very long long run.
SubDood and Sling I don't know how you guys handle the plan you are following. Pretty sure it would break me.
JMac11 I usually do some FL beach runs every year and they consistently crush me. I'll be there again in a couple weeks for more.
Sling you mentioned changing your diet. I'm about to do the same. Not so much for weight loss but I just feel so much better on early morning runs when I take better care of myself. I'm just going to try to eat cleaner and cut down on alcohol. Sat night I ate like crap and drank too much and it just makes for a miserable morning run. I'm also reading Eat & Run which is probably playing a role in my thinking too.
Madison I'm with you on dreading seeing VO2 on the schedule.
My week was good from a mileage standpoint but I'm still feeling discouraged that every faster pace run destroys me and I have to take breaks. Yesterday was supposed to be 18 with 10 at MP. I hit the first 4 at MP okay but then stopped for water, and then stopped a few more times over the next 6. If I can't run 10 at 6:50 without stopping I don't know how I'm going to possibly run 26 at that pace. Oh well I'll keep grinding and see what happens.
Some big weeks for folks in here!
JMac: Welcome to running in the morning sauna! You did a great job all things consider and that was a killer workout!
JT; Nice big week and a stellar LR and workout. Has to build some confidence to include quality in that big week.
Subdood: Great job with 7 @ that pace! Nice job on the volume as well.
Sling: Great LR and a nice week.
Madison: Awesome workout! Sounds like a big week coming up - well done!
BGS: Solid week. Nice to hit 2 LR's in the same week!
Me: A bit of a recovery week (64 miles) after I tweaked my lower right hamstring at some point last week. Nothing major at all (probably a bit of overuse), but it could have gotten worse if I hadn't cut back the workouts and strides for a few days. Even took Monday off (from running) and hit the stationary bike for the first time in a few months. Really ran mostly EZ the rest of the week, with the exception of a local 2 mile race yesterday. Leg was feeling much better by Thursday or Friday so figured I would give it a go. Pretty pleased with the speed considering the course was mostly on sidewalk, included several sharp turns (and a small section on grass), the heat/humidity, and was likely about 80-100 meters long. Finished 3rd overall - well behind some youngsters, but think it indicates the fitness is there for a sub 17 5K coming up this fall.
Weekly Summary Monday, Aug 13, 2018 thru Sunday, Aug 19, 2018
1mile: 4:46 (12/20) | 5K: 15:57 (3/21) | 10K: 33:40 (4/20) | 15K 51:43 (4/21) | HM: 1:15:03 (12/20) | FM: 2:40:30 (1/20)
Bigsling- If it helps, I've run 4 marathons over 5 years using pfitz and I think I've failed at at least one of my marathon pace runs each year, and I've wound up beating my targeted marathon pace (at the times of the runs) in 3 of them, and 2 of the times substantially. Don't know if it is a factor, but although I usually run without a watch, and I'm pretty sure most of my nonspeed runs are at a significantly slower pace then you go (I think I'm often around 8 min. miles)
I find that the vo2max runs are a better predictor of my actual success since they are less weather dependent. 5x600 @5K tomorrow...doesn't get much easier than that!
Mmmm Bop
Hello peeps, my week....
Mon - 7 @ 8:01
Tue - 20 @ 7:57
Wed - 8 @ 8:57 (trail)
Thur - 12 @ 6:41 (TM w/3x3 @ 6:18 - 1 mile easy recovery)
Fri - 5 @ 8:57 (trail)
Sun - 18 @ 7:41
Total - 70
I’ve been making it up as I go along this cycle. I’m motivated, but I’m not motivated.
5k - 17:53 (4/19) 10k - 37:53 (11/18) Half - 1:23:18 (4/19) Full - 2:50:43 (4/19)
Pfitz Paces - I remember reading that in his book, that it's between those paces. To me though, it makes no sense to run 7 miles consecutively at your true LT pace, which we are defining as the pace you could run for 1 hour straight. For most of this in this forum, that's probably right around your 10 mile pace. In absolutely no universe of marathon training could I run my 10 mile race pace for 7 miles straight. I would basically have to mini-taper into that workout. That's like running 18 @ MP, it's crazy and seems to only hurt more than help.
Mikkey - that Thursday workout was really nice. I wish I ran 70 miles a week when I wasn't motivated.
Weather - Good work as always, especially when banged up!
BGS - In the summer, in the middle of training, I find 10 @ MP to be about my limit. I can get that up to 14 or so at MP if the weather is right. I wouldn't kick yourself about missing those paces.
Sub - Nice week. I'm not a fan of the super long long runs. I know they're a staple of Pfitz, but they seem to just get people injured more than they help. The only way I would get up to 24 is if I felt I could get it done in under 3 hours, which is pretty tough.
JT - I came back from Florida and I actually feel cold in this weather! I'm excited to get some workouts in, I think the dew point is supposed to drop into the low 50s by Thursday. Can't wait to get my Q day in.
Sling - Never done anything dramatic to cut weight, but I do often start cutting out the crap in my diet as I'm training for the marathon (especially dessert).
Tapering - Has anyone tried different versions of tapering? Did you find one more successful than the other? I've tapered both of my marathons to the tune of 85% 3 weeks out, 70% 2 weeks out, but I know Pfitz is a bit more drastic with 80% then 60%. The reason I'm asking is that this cycle (if I stay healthy) will be the first time I'm not ramping up my mileage during the last few weeks before tapering. Instead, I'll be peaking with about 8 weeks to go and holding at 70. I was wondering whether this should change any of my taper strategy at all, or whether I should stick to my 85/70 taper plan.
Problem Child
Pfitz Paces - I remember reading that in his book, that it's between those paces. To me though, it makes no sense to run 7 miles consecutively at your true LT pace, which we are defining as the pace you could run for 1 hour straight. For most of this in this forum, that's probably right around your 10 mile pace. In absolutely no universe of marathon training could I run my 10 mile race pace for 7 miles straight.
How do you feel about 2E + 8M + 2x (2T, 2 min rest) + 2E for a Q workout? It seems like a LOT of work (possible bonk) with T being true LT pace?
Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.
VDOT 53.37
5k18:xx | Marathon 2:55:22
That's probably the workout I remember the most when I did 2Q last year for multiple reasons, but one of them was because I asked my wife to bike along side me so that I could have hydration available and not stop at all for the 10 straight miles of 8M + 2T. It was brutal, but I got it done. Definitely give it a shot!