Forums >Racing>2018 Sub-3. No rules. Run.
Mmmm Bop
My week-I still am struggling with the faster runs. Today was 18 with 12 at ~6:50. I hit the paces but needed a few water stops. I am totally worn out now, having beer on the couch. I struggle with faster paces. Maybe I need to abandon marathons and stick to ultras. Hope everyone else had good weeks.
I wonder why, you can lead a horse to water....
5k - 17:53 (4/19) 10k - 37:53 (11/18) Half - 1:23:18 (4/19) Full - 2:50:43 (4/19)
Hi, for real I'm trying to be back.
Still not marathon training and bummed by skipping Berlin next week but I'm applying for Boston tomorrow so I guess I'm back to being a sub 3 participant from tomorrow too. Any specific boston application info I'll need (particularly as an overseas participant) would be gratefully received -how long should it take to find out if I'm in?
Feeling pretty out of touch with this thread so I'll do some homework backreading then comment next week.
For me - steady front-loaded week this week and a 10k race today where I was a bit too brave and went out too hard and popped.
Upcoming; 14th Sep Scottish veterans XC trials, 289th Sep Great Scottish Run 1/2, 12th October TAMA half marathon, 27th October Leeds Abbey dash 10k
RIP Milkman
Mikkey - I DO love complaining about the weather. I feel like it helps me rationalize my shitty paces all summer. I actually don’t mind running in super humid conditions though for easy runs, it’s just during quality work when I feel like it’s too hard to stay hydrated. Anyway, sub 2:50 is my stretch goal. I’d have to go sub 6:30 and I just can’t see that being in the cards unless everything goes perfectly, especially on that course. I need to get in some more M pace work before I nail down my goal, but for now I can see myself going out at around 2:52 pace and seeing if I can negative split again. Also nice Park run, I’m sure Piwi would be proud of you.
Finbad - I’ve enjoyed following you on Strava but hope you really do stick around here! How many 10ks have you run this year? I feel like it’s got to be approaching double digits at this point.
BGS - I’m confused by your Sunday run. If you did 12 at at 6:50, and your average pace was 7:03, does that mean you ran the first 6 around 7:20 or so? That would be crazy fast and I can see why you would have bombed the workout. If I was doing M pace around 6:50, the fastest easy miles would be around 7:45 but I probably would start the run closer to 8:15 or 8:30.
Madison - nice week and PR, always fun to get a PR in the middle of marathon training.
Me - Happy with the week with both of my quality runs. This is a new MPW high for me that didn’t involve some weird 3 quality day week due to vacation. One thing I’m wondering and would love some input on is what to do in the last 2-3 weeks if you’re feeling good, i.e. not like the walking dead as you normally do during marathon training. My original goal was just to hold at 70 MPW, but if I feel good, is there any reason not to go to 75 MPW for the last 2 weeks? I think the traditional thinking is that you shouldn’t be increasing mileage during the last 4-6 weeks or so unless you’re in serious mileage deficit. Any help from the folks would be appreciated.
Weekly SummaryMonday, Sep 03, 2018 thru Sunday, Sep 09, 2018
5K: 16:37 (11/20) | 10K: 34:49 (10/19) | HM: 1:14:57 (5/22) | FM: 2:36:31 (12/19)
Sling: Nice 10k race; given the course and conditions, I think you are in sub-3 shape with decent weather for the marathon.
Subdood: Great job on the 10k time trial (and the win!). Strong week also.
Madison: Congrats on the 10k PR and win, sub 35 min is super fast!
Mikkey: Nice job on the 5k. Based on your training I definitely think you are in sub 3 shape, the question is only how far below sub 3.
BGS: Great job on the LR. You are being modest; from looking at your splits it looks to me like your avg pace was closer to 6:45 than 6:50. Regarding easy day pace, I can add my 2 cents that it definitely helps for me to run them slow, often in the 8:20-8:50 range. I am also finding more and more that HR can be a good guide for recovery pace. I don't think you should give up yet on marathons; just try to slow down the easy days and you should be able to hit the fast paces for your threshold or interval session.
Finbad: Welcome back, and nice job on that 10k.
JMac: Great week; those 2 Q sessions were awesome. The 4 x 2T especially since it was in horribly hot/humid weather! As far as the mileage increase, I think going to 75 instead of 70 if you feel good is not a problem. I assume you are not talking about the taper weeks; that much mileage in the last 2 weeks I would not recommend, or at least would not attempt myself.
My week: A combination of having to travel to Boston midweek for work, and the insane heat/humidity we had for most of the week, meant I didn't do any hard workout mid-week. I tried to make up for it with a 10 mile time trial today on the track. I was happy with it; I manually took splits every 1600m and they were all pretty even at about 6:10, and I even managed to speed up to a 6:05 for the last one. 40 and 1/4 laps, most of it with the Nelson song Love and Affection going through my head! Heard it on the radio on the drive to the track and it just stuck. Not a bad song but also not ideal for a >1 hour hard time trial!
2:52:16 (2018)
Ha! yeah, I do run a bunch of 10k's but they're just so convenient- often midweek evenings and I find I can get right back into training with only an easy day or two afterwards. For the record though my yearly 10k count is only 7 (so far).
SubDood- I used to think that I could will myself to perform 100% at a time trial, but I think in reality you can't quite get that same level of adrenaline on your own. Last year in good conditions I averaged 6:17 on my way to a 3:02 marathon that would very likely have been under 3hr in normal conditions. So I think you are in pretty good shape with your 6:24. Nice pace on your 18 miler the next day too!
BigGuy- Your paces looked a bit better this week. I think it's perfectly reasonable to get water stops in the middle of an 18 mile run!! A 10 mile pace does feel a bit slow for me, but even the difference between 7:50 and 8:20 is significant. I think your times suggest your fitness is good. Slowing down during everyday runs is a skill that takes time to develop, especially if you feel like you are in a time crunch.
JMac- This is not something I've attempted, but I think you probably know your body well enough to know if it's reasonable.
JTReeves- 10 miles at 6:10! Looks like you are ready to take some time off your PRs.
Me- Last week before taper. Lost about 5 pounds during my month of intense dieting, with about 2 pounds more to go, and I'm quite ready to add sugar back on to my diet. I miss cake and cookies. Weather cooled down a ton here (temporary) but it made for a couple nice runs!
5k- 18:55 (2018) 10K- 39:04 (2017) Marathon- 3:00:10 (2018)
Just to be clear - I meant go up to 75 MPW for the last 2 weeks before tapering. So instead of holding 70 before tapering, I would do something like 70 70 70 50 75 75 then taper. I know most plans say to hold your mileage. Not sure if it even really matters one way or the other.
Sling - I'm glad I don't have to diet during marathon training, I had a nice big sundae yesterday. I will say that I've gone from 150 down to 140 (5'9") during this cycle just because of the mileage increase. I think 140 is my ideal racing weight. Probably could get down to 135 but would require so much effort and lead to me being hungry all the time.
JT - I definitely think sub 2:55 is right for you. 6:10 pace with zero taper gets me to around 2:54 in my calc. I ran a 10 mile last year with no taper in 63:03 in 75 temp and 65 DP, so the conditions were much harder, but that got me to a 2:54. I think running 61:57 in a TT is also much harder, so you should be set.
Mikkey - How's the weather looking for your race? Also what's the goal, just sub 3?
Indy 2018, w9/18M 01 01 09 7.01 w/ 6x hill sprintsT 01 00 05 7.62 tm w/ 3wu + 2/1@6:00 +cd, 0.5%, rec: 120/60s static, gym like sauna 00 56 02 7.08 w/ 1.5@6:00W 00 46 51 5.64 00 33 20 3.87 Th 01 15 17 10.0 tm w/ 3wu + 6@6:49 + 1cd, 0.5/1%F 02 28 56 18.85 -- felt good, 8oz water onlyS 00 31 22 3.66 S 01 02 35 7.59 ==== 71.32
Indy 2018, w10/18M 01 18 21 9.17 T -- -- -- SRDW 01 10 46 9.0 tm w/ 3wu + 3x1.5@6:00/5:57/5:53 + 1cd, 0.5%, rec: 90s static 00 34 35 4.19 Th 01 03 59 7.16 F 01 25 39 10.6 S 02 20 20 19.5 tm w/ 2wu + 16.5@6:54 + 1cd, 0.5/1/0.5/0%S 01 16 07 8.73 ==== 68.35
Solid couple of weeks for me with 70mpw now finally feeling comfortable. I got 2 good long runs in, so some semblance of stamina is returning. I got 30miles done in ~12hrs on F/S, which beat me up, but in a good way. I haven't been able to do much if any marathon paced work yet and hoping to dip my toes in those waters this week. My threshold work is a different story with it being consistently off over the past few weeks. I was able to do T workouts at 50 mpw that I'm finding much harder now. I guess the extra mileage is changing things, but overall things are coming around. Boston reg time again, so good luck to all who are giving it a whirl. I have vengeance on the menu, with Toledo 2019 on tap.
Jmac: Really solid weeks you've been putting together. I don't think you'll have any problem going up to 75-80 miles. An extra 25/30mins in the morning or evening as double 2 days during the week should do the trick. Just remember to keep them easy and save the racing for race day.
sling: Good luck with the taper madness. Be careful with trying to lose weight, you don't want to screw up your glycogen storage systems. You'll have a shot at sub3 as an A goal, but I'd say that anything sub3:05 would be good.
JT: ahahahaha... way to motivate a top notch TT. As long as the humidity cooperates, you should have a really good shot at low 2:50s.
Finbad: Good to have you back around. You've been putting down some seriously fast times over the summer. I hope you get to unleash on a nice half prior to Boston given the lottery that the weather is there.
Mikkey: Ticking along nicely running wise, hope all else is ok. I'm really interested in following the Goodwood madness.
BGS: Great mileage this week. As others have commented, slow down. That 18 miler was done way too fast and doing that too much will grind you to little tiny pieces. I'd stick with the marathons though, maybe just pay more attention to the pace info. on good ol' gps.
madison: Congrats on the PR, with -4s making it ??? Have you zeroed in on a goal time yet?
subdood: Solid looking week, with a really nice tempo session and LR b2b.
weatherboy: I tried that last fall and I found the back to back I/T days with some R stuff mixed in to be quite enjoyable. I think the main thing is having a solid base going in so that your joints can take the back 2 back beatings. Don't be afraid to throw in a down week every 3, to make sure the injury bug stays away.
5k: 17:32 (11/18) -- 10k: 38:47 (07/17) -- 10m: 60:23 (08/17) -- 1/2: 1:22:32 (11/17) -- full: 2:49:26 (04/17)
2020 Goals: Assault on 2:40! Next up: Toledo (Apr 26)
Kram - Great couple of weeks and still so impressed with how quickly you've come back. I found that my T workouts at 60 MPW were vastly more difficult than at 40-50. You'll get there in a couple of weeks.
I will be signing up for Boston tomorrow since I'm at BQ-10. Who else in this thread is signing up? It's obvious I haven't run it the last three years given how excited I am to sign up. I honestly think because everyone else is so jaded by the weather that we will get a perfect day in 2019. You heard it here first. This is anti-anti-jinx, because everybody is so afraid of the weather in Boston we just need to be super optimistic!
Just? I’m not taking Sub 3 for granted as my mileage has been very low by my standards (48mpw average over the last 12 weeks)....I’m going to start out at 6:45 pace and see how it goes. I’ll be giving it 100% but I’m not going out at stupid pace. Finally got an email with race day instructions as the website was very vague. Marathon starts at 9am and it’s just over 11 laps (1 lap = 2.37 miles)...the shorter distances start later and staggered with the last (5k) starting at 10.45am. There are 7 bends and I’ll definitely be running the tangents even if it means shoving/cutting up/swearing at anyone who gets in my way.
Finbad - That was still another great 10k race. Shame about Berlin but from my experience London and NYC is a much better vibe. Good luck with the Boston process, at least it’s easy to qualify there. (unlike Berlin)
JT - Great work on the TT, when I saw 6:04 pace on Strava I thought shit that’s the same pace as my 5k, then I remembered that GPS on a track is much faster! You know roughly what shape you’re in but I wouldn’t focus on a set pace per mile and just go by feel. 👍
Kram - Great to see you back at 70mpw again and some great workouts. If you’re running Indy that means you’ll be racing with RWOL legends Strugglr and AussieDingo??? Give them a Glasgow kiss from me if you see them. 😜
Fin: Nice 10K. You've still got some killer speed in those legs.
BGS: Killer week. Big LR even if you felt like you bombed a bit. Beer on the couch every so often is allowed!
Sling: Nice 10K as well.
Subdood: Awesome job on the win. As JT said that was a solid week as well.
Mikkey: Nice 5K. Certainly think you should be close for a sub 3 attempt.
Madison: Wow, nice sub 35!!
JMAC: Awesome job getting your week back on track. Think it would be ok to hold the mileage a bit, but probably not increase by too much though. Probably not a huge benefit in the short term from the increased volume this late in the cycle. That was a nice 4 X 2 session!
JT: Awesome time trial. As others have said that should bode really well for a sub 2:55 attempt.
Kram: Solid looking weeks there. Glad to see you back training well! Really think I'm going to stick with alternatting 2Q with a 3Q week every so often as I head into roughly Phase III. Seemed to work really well for me last fall/winter for the marathon so it should work pretty well for the 1/2 with a bit more focus on speed and threshold work (epsecially if it cools off).
Me: A bit of a planned slight dip in mileage last week, but still happy with the quality days overall. Ended up doing a local 5K at tempo in the middle of my LR on Saturday and after a 6 mile warmup. Also been fighting the tail end of a minor head cold, but running has helped overall.
Weekly Summary Monday, Sep 03, 2018 thru Sunday, Sep 09, 2018
1mile: 4:46 (12/20) | 5K: 15:57 (3/21) | 10K: 33:40 (4/20) | 15K 51:43 (4/21) | HM: 1:15:03 (12/20) | FM: 2:40:30 (1/20)
*unlurk*
I thought hard about maybe doing Boston since I have a similar qualifying time to you, but we've just bought a house and I just don't think the budget will stretch to that. And I'm less than excited about knocking out 35km long runs in the middle of our summer (yes JMac, I know it's not that hot by NY standards, but I'm sh!thouse in warm conditions).
But, I do still want to do it someday, which presumably means I'll need to do another marathon first since I'll need a qualifying time. I've had a damn good year over HM/10k distances, and I feel like the HM is the sweet spot for me at the moment in terms of the balance between pace and endurance. Give it a year or two though and I suspect the FM will be calling, I know I've got a much better time in me than my current PB with the right training.
Mikkey - all the best for your race. Always run the tangents! (we just had a good discussion about this over in the sub-1:30 thread, basically that was how Rod Dixon won the NY Marathon in 1983)
*relurk*
3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)
10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)
* Net downhill course
Last race: Waterfront HM, 7 Apr, 1:15:48
Up next: Runway5, 4 May
"CONSISTENCY IS KING"
Mikkey - Didn't mean in that way. I guess some people I just imagine run sub 3s at will, and you're one of them.
Thanks for the advice. If I do bump up mileage, it would certainly only be easy mileage, and probably just 5 MPW. I like the idea of doing short doubles. Weather here is returning to normal early September weather. I really enjoyed running in low 60s and rain the past few days, felt like a machine.
Well, they've taken my money so looks like I'll be in boston for sure next year. Lot of fit looking people around here at the moment.
I just registered myself. 52 degrees, cloudy, and a westerly wind, here we come!