Forums >Racing>2018 Sub-3. No rules. Run.
Andres I just assumed you ran for fun last week. Did you do a report ? We could still learn alot from your blow up
I wasn't exactly taking it easy, I just wasn't anywhere close to being in shape to put up a decent effort for 26 miles (On August 25th I set out to run 12 miles, and started walking after 11, so that tells you what I was starting from). I am crawling my way back in to shape, but I still needed more time. I thought I'd start out at a relatively low HR level and see if that could carry me through to the end. It didn't. I had zero left after 22. I'll work on drafting something up...
Upcoming races: Boston
Always enjoy some differing opinions. Gives me things to think about. I will consider sticking with the pacer if I don't feel well.
My marathon of 3:02 was run last year Philly in horrible conditions. Gusts of wind up to 40 or 50 mph totally exposed for a 6 mile stretch. I believe I was already in 2:59 or better shape then, and I've set significant PRS in both my ultras this spring, suggesting improved endurance. I've run 6 marathons, and in the last 5 I've correctly predicted my finishing time within 2 minutes each time (3 times to the minute) so I feel like I usually go into my races with a good idea of my fitness, although this year I'm less confident, since there are a few extra variables and two health issues (I'm predicting 2:57 for the record).
I don't see why people are so skeptical of caffeine's benefits. There is ample research out there that it has a significant effect on performance (1-3%). It is a drug that enhances athletic performance. I know some people out there are also skeptical of treadmills, but I believe my 37 second 10K PR last month with caffeine was legit. Every single training run I did using it had me running faster. I actually think 2-3 minutes caffeine benefit is being fairly conservative. Still, it is trying something new in a race, and I am aware that it could backfire. I've had no issues during my experiments, but I haven't taken it after carb-loading.
From a relationship standpoint, I need to stop running marathons and especially need to cut my mileage by 15-20 miles per week. This will be the end of my season, as it's already been extended by 5 grueling weeks after the Steamtown debacle! I believe this will be my last serious attempt at 3hrs and I've been essentially running nonstop toward this goal for a long period of time, trying to max out my fitness as I know I'm at my personal peak. My plan is to run Boston next year (do light training) and maybe NYC as a fall marathon, but otherwise cut my mileage significantly and focus on shorter distances or ultras more for fun.
I look forward to giving you guys a glorious race report in 2 days justifying my stubbornness and then eating some junk food, because I've been dieting since August.
5k- 18:55 (2018) 10K- 39:04 (2017) Marathon- 3:00:10 (2018)
BGS: Sorry to hear about the stomach bug; hope it clears up rapidly and you are ok to go tomorrow. Good luck!
Good luck also to Sling, Madison and Steve!
2:52:16 (2018)
slingrunner - you are my favorite poster by far (sorry MIkkey ) - without you I would enjoy this thread much less. Good luck with you race - whatever approach you choose, you will get more experience. Re cutting on the mileage - sure, we all did that at some point or another and then again, later we manage to find a way to increase it again. Because nothing, nothing beats mileage!
paces PRs - 5K - 5:48 / 10K - 6:05 / HM - 6:14 / FM - 6:26 per mile
CalBears I am quiet around here, but since we're throwing around "favorite poster" compliments, I like yours best.
Ha-ha - that fired back at me pretty fast
Best of luck to everyone racing this weekend!
Sling - There is a quote that is something like - Whether you think can do something or whether you think you can't, you're probably right. I hope you have decided to run sub-3 tomorrow.
JTReeves - I'm reading through this message board connecting people's current race performances and goals with their training narratives. I just got to your race report and it was a great read.
My update: Short version
Previous week: 7 runs, 63.1, miles 8:36 average
This Week's goal: 7 runs, 64+ miles
Actual: 7 runs, 64.6 miles, 8:41 average
Goal for next week: 7 runs, 66+ miles, 12 mile long run, 1 quality workout
My update: Bathroom reading version
Based on reading through a lot of the training on here, it seems like the best results are getting posted by people that are doing hard workouts and long runs with some faster miles included. So I added 1 very small workout to test the waters and see how the joints handled it. I did 3x1200 meters @ 6:40 pace in the middle of an 8 mile run with 5 minutes between them at easy pace. Considering my 5k race at 7:17 pace in September, I was surprised at how controlled 6:40 pace felt breathing wise, particularly since I was running on trails and in grassy fields. It did feel clumsy, because I've been so locked in at 8:20-9:20 pace. My left knee was aching after (I think mostly from the choose your own adventure footing and all the sharp turns), but totally fine the next day. Going forward I will continue to do 1 harder day per week.
I'm not quite there on a long run yet, mostly because of the time change. It was getting dark on me early and it's really hard to see in a park with no lights so I cut the runs off when it got too silly. My longest run this week was 10+, last week 11+. My mileage is now adequate, so I don't plan to increase the 9-10 mile daily runs any more. Instead I will add 1 mile per week on long run, hopefully a 12 miler this week and that should get me to 70+ miles per week and a gradually longer long run over the next 4+ weeks. I will try to run part of every long run at roughly marathon goal pace starting off with just 1 or 2 faster miles.
I'm 12 days out from my next race, a 5k. This is my first race since a 5k on Sept 8 in 22:35. I am looking forward to the feedback so I can set good training paces. My rough goal (hope) is sub 20:30, but I am guessing I could be anywhere from sub 20 to just over 21. It is going to be different running on solid ground. I haven't taken a day off since the last race, and some days my legs feel great and some days they feel weak. I have been stretching a lot (by my standards up from no stretching in the past), and it seems to relieve a lot of joint and foot pain. I do it right after the runs when my muscles are very loose. I'm starting to eat healthier and go to sleep earlier, so I think I'm checking off all the basic stuff. I have a ~14 hour one way drive tomorrow to Virginia and the return trip next Sunday, but the weather in Virginia is going to be 50 degrees cooler than Florida, so it's worth it. I'm half tempted to pull a weatherboy and run a 5k there while my body is still heat doped.
Mmmm Bop
If his glass is half full then he’ll run sub-3...if his glass is half empty then he won’t run sub-3. 😃
BGS - I hope your race went well yesterday!
mt79 - It looks like you’ve been making good progress with the consistent mileage 7 days per week and you might surprise yourself in the 5k even with the lack of speedwork. Nice 3x1200, but I would think those sort of workouts on trails could be risky!
Good luck Sling, Steve, Madison, Cal and anyone else racing today. 👍
5k - 17:53 (4/19) 10k - 37:53 (11/18) Half - 1:23:18 (4/19) Full - 2:50:43 (4/19)
Thanks, I had a tough day. I finished in 3:11 with about a 9-10 minute positive split. Needless to say the late miles were not pleasant. I'm clearly not in sub-3 shape. Disappointing since I ran the same race last year in 3:04 so I seem to have taken a step backward.
Hope today's racers have a better experience!
BGS -- I'm really sorry to hear it wasn't your day yesterday. Sounds like you had a few things plaguing you recently that may have kept you from your best performance. Any plans to keep after it?
My race tracking skills aren't perfect, but here are my unconfirmed findings:
The online results from Harrisburg show a "Steve" (not sure if it's "The Steve") finishing around 2:54:23.
Also in Harrisburg is slingrunner, who I believe finished in 3:00:10.
In Madison, madisonrunner ran a 2:39:26.
These are outstanding results. Congrats!
me -- Feeling healthy again. Ran 20 miles in very cold temps yesterday (8 deg F) with some slightly faster-paced stuff in the second half (9 miles around 7:10 pace). I've heard good things about the Rocket City Marathon (Huntsville, AL). It is on December 8, and it will be my backup to my backup marathon. Has anyone else here run it before?
Happy Veterans' Day, and thank you to those who served.
Madison Marathon 2018 - 2:39:26 (3rd overall)
Short version: 2:39:26, 3rd overall (prize money!). Very tough course/conditions such that faster was possible but a PR was likely not. I went for it and hung on.
Long version:
The plan: 1:16:30 first half, 1:19:00 second half
I know Madison is a tough course with significant hills, thus the planned positive split. The last half is especially tough due to hills and the fact that the half marathon starts 10 minutes after the full and basically uses the second half of the full course, so you are constantly weaving around half marathoners for the last half.
I followed the same prep for Lakefront which worked well.
I started wearing my new vaporfly flyknit shoes, knee high compression socks, windproof underwear, short shorts, singlet, long sleeve shirt, UA ninja facemask, UA medium thickness gloves, 3 Maurten gels, pill pouch w/ 8 enduroloytes, and a hotshot. It was 27 and fairly windy to start.
I moved into 5th place at about the half mile mark and the first 4 were clear ahead of me. First especially was in a class by himself. The first half went according to plan. I ran ~5:50s and kept 4th in sight ahead of me. I felt pretty good and had more times telling myself to slow down than to speed up. I took a Maurten gel at 3.5 and 8 and endorolytes at ~5 and ~10.
Shortly after halfway I moved into 4th place. The guy I passed must have dropped as the results have me in 3rd at the halfway mark. He was slowing pretty substantially.
Miles 12-16 are lonely and I just tried to run around 6:00 miles as I weaved around half marathoners. I took my hotshot around 14. At 15 I tossed my long sleeve shirt so was down to my singlet. Miles 16-23 are very hilly. At ~16 I felt cramps coming in my calves so I took 2 endurolytes. These would be the last endurolytes I took. Just past 18 my right achilles cramped painfully. I was immediately worried about a serious injury so much so that I stopped and pulled up my right sock which had fallen down to mid-calf around the 3 mile mark. I assessed the situation for the next half mile and the pain lessened though never completely went away. At that point there was a guy only 20s or so behind me.
I made it through the hills but by 23 was out of it, just trying to run fast enough to sneak under 2:39. At around 23 I passed another marathoner that I thought I recognized so I asked him his name. He said Andy so it wasn't who I thought it was. I mumbled that we should work together and his reply was "I'm done" as he shuffled along. He must have dropped as well as I don't see him the results at all.
For the last 3 miles it was a struggle to run 6:30s and I tried to hang on to sub 2:39. The last mile is absolutely brutal as the finish is up State Street to the Capitol. I didn't break 2:39 but I was able to hang on to 3rd.
This was tough. For the last 10 miles I was sore, cold, cramping (calves, both achilles by the end, quads, hamstrings), and by the end likely low on carbs as my brain was getting foggy. My brother was at 24 to cheer me on and though I recognized him I didn't even acknowledge him I was so out of it. I did try to drink Gatorade at every aid station but it was hit or miss if it was available and sometimes starting to turn into a slushy.
I think my pre-race assessment of a 'perfect race' on this course having a 2.5 minute positive split is about right. Of the top 10 there were a couple people that positive split by ~3 minutes but the rest positive split by 5-7 minutes. I don't think there is any way I could have PR'd today. Perhaps had I run 1:18 for the first half I could have come back in 1:20-1:21 and run in the 2:38s.
After the race I found a race organizer who directed me to the podium. They gave me a giant check (3rd place gets $375!) and 2nd place and I awkwardly stood on the podium while the photographer took our pictures. A minute or so later first place showed up but the photographer was gone already.
2nd place also ran Lakefront last month (2:23 at Lakefront, 2:31 today).
Course Splits:
10k: 35:55 (5:47 pace)
Half: 1:16:34 (5:50 pace, 5:54 for this segment)
20: 1:59:21 (5:58 pace, 6:13 for this segment)
Finish: 2:39:26 (6:05 pace, 6:27 for this segment)
Second Half: 1:22:52 (positive split by 6:18)
Overall pleased to again break my old PR on a tough course in tough conditions. I went for it and I'm proud of the effort and being able to hold things together enough to run my second-fastest time ever.
"Sling - There is a quote that is something like - Whether you think can do something or whether you think you can't, you're probably right. I hope you have decided to run sub-3 tomorrow."
I decided not to. 3:00:10
OK, might as well get this over with . For starters, neither my foot injury, or my breathing bothered me. I don't know what affect the caffeine had, but it didn't have a negative effect.
My plan going in was to stick with the 3hr pacer for the first few miles, and then consider forging ahead. I had several hurdles during my training, and I didn't get a good quality 10K race to judge my fitness on, but I estimated I had about 2:57 fitness on this course this day, so I planned accordingly. I believe in positive splits, and today's results don't make me feel any differently.
I wasn't super thrilled with working with the pacer for the first few miles. I missed several tangents and he seemed to be going at a jumpy pace. During a water stop at around mile 3, everybody really slowed a bit, and I just kept going (I took a handheld for the first 4 miles). I had support available at miles 4,8,12,16, and 20, so that was a big help. I run with a stopwatch, so I can't give exact splits, but I pretty much knew what I was running.
From miles 5-8 I think I actually lost a little time on the 3hr pacer (he was going at 2:59 pace), and it was a bit frustrating. The biggest miscalculation I made was underestimating the wind. Although the forecast showed 5mph winds, nearly the entire course was run right by the river, and it was definitely more than that. It wasn't horrible, but I was isolated nearly the entire race. I definitely felt better when I was able to get behind somebody, but that happened almost never.
Miles 8-12 went better. I was feeling strong and moving at a good clip. I reached the halfway point at 1:28:20ish which was just about what I was going for. I felt pretty strong, and in control, although I knew the wind was sapping me ever so slightly.
Things continued along well from miles 12-16, with me continuing to hit 6:45 miles. I felt better at this point than I usually do in a marathon. It felt like things started to get a tiny bit hillier here. There is a turnaround at mile 18, and I noticed the 3hr pacer was only 30 seconds behind or so, and I was concerned. I felt like I was pacing well at that point given how I felt, but my miles started to slow down. From mile 19 on or so I started doing calculations. I knew that if I hit 7 minute miles I would still be OK. I tried to maintain a pace that I thought I could maintain to the finish, hoping there would be a little burst left at the end. I was starting to get passed a bit more here.
Miles 19-23 continued about the same... I think my pace was pretty consistent at this point... a tad under 7 minute miles. At mile 23 I noticed I had a 30 second cushion on getting to mile 26 at 2:58 if I kept running 7min miles. One of my shoelaces also came untied here for the first time in a race...don't know how much that slowed me down. At mile 24 that cushion went down to 20 seconds. Not great, but still manageable. The 3hr pacer passed me around mile 23 or 24 (still going at a 2:59 pace) so I just had to keep him within a minute. However it was disconcerting how quickly he seemed to pass me.
I believe when I got to mile 25 my cushion had gone down to -5 seconds. That was alarming, but I also knew that I didn't really need 2 minutes for the final .2K. I was pretty sure at this point it was going to be very close. I was by no means feeling great, but I felt like I had enough in the tank to get there in a time with a sprint.
Somewhere around mile 25.8 was an entirely unfair brutal obstacle! You leave the river and go up into town. There is a ~180 degree turn that you need to come to almost a complete stop, and then chug up a short but very steep pathway (elevation map shows it as 9 feet within less than .05 miles). I did what I could, but that completely sapped my legs and made me fairly delirious. Then after that, there were 3 turns that were somewhere around 180 degree turns...not full stop, but certainly momentum crushing. I was completely out of it, but kept going, praying that the 26 mile mark would show up in time. I passed it at 2:58:40. I usually have a sprint finish in me, but that hill had devastated me so much, that maintaining was all I could do. I saw the finish line at 2:59:40, and knew that was too much distance to make up. Did what I could. Elevation map shows another 50 feet of climbing over last .3.
Following the race I was completely spent. My support crew helped me get to a place to lie down, and was there for 10-15 minutes pretty much passed out. Started cramping too much, so needed to walk more, walked a block or so, and was down for another 10-15 minutes. Couldn't even walk with my eyes open. On a positive side I was so destroyed by the race that I couldn't really even care about not making my goal...honestly I'm still too tired 5 hours later to reflect too much on it. I am running Boston, but I'm not planning to go for 3 there, and this will likely be my last attempt. Marathons are too brutal. If I could redo things, I'd have tied that lace tighter (I retied it like 4 times before the start trying to find the perfect tightness) and would have stayed with the pace group for wind protection. Even so, I'm not confident that working with the 3hr pacer would have worked out better... I'd have missed a lot of tangents, and I'm not confident that minute cushion would have been enough over the last 7 miles no matter how rested I was. I was always going to lose 20 seconds or so on that one obstacle at the end.
Happy Veterans Day!
First off congrats to BGS, Sling, Steve, and Madison. Well done!
BGS: Still a great race and even more so with a last minute stomach bug.
Madison: Thanks for the race recap. Awesome fitness you have have right now. Back to back sub 2:40's is just an amazing feat!
Sling: Heartbreaking to read about your finish. Doesn't sound like a great finish for anyone wanting a last minute kick. At the end of the day there really isn't a difference fitness wise between a 2:59 and 3:01 as it's just a matter of seconds. Well done either way!
MT: great week! I've been inclined to include lots of quality in my longer efforts over the past year or so. Still think there is a place for steady efforts every few weeks though. Agree with trying to find a local race that is cooler We still really havent had much relief from the heat other than a few breaks and there. November is already running 6 deg warmer than normal 🙁
Subdood: Great LR!
I finished off my biggest training week of my recent HM training cycle by hitting my 4 X 2 mi workout in the middle of a 16 mile day yesterday. Really happy with the mile splits overall, but boy were the last 2-3 miles tough as it edged towards a race effort! Based on what I've read from others and have experienced myself hoping to be within 3-5 secs of these paces for the 13.1 assuming somewhat manageable weather. Made it an even longer day as my wife and I then walked Disney for another 12+ miles all afternoon/evening! Other big workout was a 5 X 1200 interval session on the track that were paced just around (or slightly under) 4 min per rep. Might be able to jump into a local turkey trot 5K next week which will provide a nice tune up workout/race about 9 days before my goal race
Weekly Summary Monday, Nov 05, 2018 thru Sunday, Nov 11, 2018
1mile: 4:46 (12/20) | 5K: 15:57 (3/21) | 10K: 33:40 (4/20) | 15K 51:43 (4/21) | HM: 1:15:03 (12/20) | FM: 2:40:30 (1/20)
Madison that is a massive effort just a couple weeks after your PR. Well done
sling ughh that’s brutal. I’m sorry to hear that
weather that’s a big week and a killer 4x2.
I need to catch up on everyone else throughout the week. Sorry about that
big week this week 106.75 total
mon 10 8:40
tue 10 with strides 8:40
wed AM 10.5 with 40 min at Marathon power (6:23)
PM 11.5 with 4x9:00 at 5:50
thurs 10 8:40
Fri AM 10.25 with 40 min at Marathon power (6:22)
PM 11.75 with 3x18:30 at 6:00
Sat 10 8:30
Sun 22 as 95 min easy 60 min at marathon power (6:18)
HM: 1/17 1:18:53. FM: 12/18 2:46:04
BGS: Great job gutting it out; I am surprised you could even run given the stomach bug! You'll get the sub 3 in your next attempt.
Madison: Awesome race and thanks for the race report. That course is very hilly, so pulling off a 2:39 is very impressive. Also 3rd place out of >1100 is amazing.
Sling: Great result, and even though not sub 3 it is a great time and effort. Sorry to hear you won't go for it again but maybe give it some time and the bug may bite you again.
MT: Nice progression of the mileage. I think you are on the right track; adding one hard workout/week will be a great stimulus. Agree with Mikey to be careful if you run fast intervals on trails; it may be safer on a good modern surfaced track.
Weather: Great week and the 4 x 2 mile was awesome! I think I kudoed that on strava before you gave it a title and did not realize what was in there. That's a great sign of what's possible for you in the half.
Swim: Wow, another huge week! I'll ask again: what will MP be at sea level? What is the goal for CIM?
Me: More easy mileage. I was most happy to get back to my "placeholder" long run of 16 mi today. HR is still higher than what it should be for these paces, but is gradually coming down. Just going to continue increasing mileage but keep it easy till HR is back where it should be.
Weekly SummaryMonday, Nov 05, 2018 thru Sunday, Nov 11, 2018