Forums >Racing>2018 Sub-3. No rules. Run.
Sling, sorry about your race. I know the 3 hour pacer. If you look at the race results, you'll see he lists his hometown the same as mine even though he doesn't live here. If you were running with him in the first few miles you may have noticed him yelling to me at mile 1 that we were too close and that "I better have a big second half planned". He's a bit...um...peculiar. When I saw his result on Strava boasting that he ran 1:29:30-1:29:30 I found it odd that no one finished with him. Isn't your job as a pacer to help more important than to hit a time UNDER your advertised time? I would think that if he passed you so close to the end and you were so close to 3:00 he should have stayed with you to try to get you under. Either way, like I said, he's a bit of an odd guy. And yeah, that hairpin at the end was brutal. It's very interesting to read the RR of someone from the same race who had a markedly different experience. Hopefully you heal up well and get back out there. y mind. But now I don't know.
Sling, sorry about your race. I know the 3 hour pacer. If you look at the race results, you'll see he lists his hometown the same as mine even though he doesn't live here. If you were running with him in the first few miles you may have noticed him yelling to me at mile 1 that we were too close and that "I better have a big second half planned". He's a bit...um...peculiar. When I saw his result on Strava boasting that he ran 1:29:30-1:29:30 I found it odd that no one finished with him. Isn't your job as a pacer to help more important than to hit a time UNDER your advertised time? I would think that if he passed you so close to the end and you were so close to 3:00 he should have stayed with you to try to get you under. Either way, like I said, he's a bit of an odd guy. And yeah, that hairpin at the end was brutal.
It's very interesting to read the RR of someone from the same race who had a markedly different experience. Hopefully you heal up well and get back out there.
y mind. But now I don't know.
In defense of the pacer, he gathered all the people running with him at the beginning (like literally at 7:58 though) and the general decision was to go a bit under 3hrs since some people were looking to qualify for Boston and 3 would not cut it. When he passed me at the very end by himself I asked him where the group was, and he said that they all went ahead and were doing fine (however they couldn't ALL have gone ahead, since I wasn't passed by *that* many people).
I wasn't sure if he was going to stay with me at the end, but I had left his group pretty early. I can't imagine him working with me would have made any difference... I feel like I was 100% effort at the end, and I had all the motivation in the world. I do find it interesting that he said he ran even splits... I have no way to prove that isn't true, but I feel like when I saw him at the turnaround, he was way too close behind me and he may have slowed down on the back stretch, which explains why he didn't catch me earlier (I suspect he sped up a lot from 13.1-16). In any case, I don't blame him at all... he was there to help, and I likely miscalculated by not using him better.
5k- 18:55 (2018) 10K- 39:04 (2017) Marathon- 3:00:10 (2018)
Swim: That seems about right for altitude adjustment. I saw Daniels VDot page has an altitude adjustment calculator and for 7000 ft it takes 21 sec/mile off.
Steve: Congrats on the excellent race and glad you edged out Congestion Guy
Finbad: Sounds like a very competitive 4k; though I'm not accustomed to that distance just doing the math for each km being under 3 min for the sub 12 min guys you mentioned... that is damn fast! Hope your PF trouble goes away.
Piwi: Sorry to hear about the calf acting up again. Remember to warm up properly before those fast runs; at your age you need at least 10-15 km warmup to get things ready
Cal: Nice week; glad your foot issue is resolved. You can ask your favorite guy Sling about treadmill time trials; I think he has a positive view on them.
Ace: Welcome! Great race report and congrats on the perfectly executed race. You must have been around Kram during the race, a guy on this thread who ran a similar time there. Indy is a marathon I'd like to do eventually as I'm fond of the city (we used to live there) and I've heard only good things about the race.
2:52:16 (2018)
Sling - Yes, there is no realistic difference in the shape you are in, having run 3:00:10 versus 2:59:50. But I know well from experience that hearing that is annoying at this moment. I agree that you should give it another go at Boston. I ran a 3:00:07 in Sep 2015 before running my first sub 3 in Boston 2016. It made Boston that much better. (My near miss was much sillier. I had miscalculated my time at the last mile, thinking I needed a 6:48 mile to get under 3, when I really needed a 7:12 mile. I knew one more 6:48 wasn't going to happen, so I just chilled down to 7:30 pace, content with a 3:01 finish. I didn't realize my error until I turned the final corner and saw a 2 on the clock.)
The Steve - great race and report! That's exciting. Does seem odd to set a rule that you'll need to be in PR shape and PR weather to run another marathon. You don't always know whether those two things are there until the end of a cycle.
JT - I'm amazed at how quickly you've bounced back from your surgery.
Cal - I'm a little bummed you weren't able to run the half this weekend. I was looking forward to you running an all out half time of 1:29:30, only to double that in 4 weeks.
Upcoming races: Boston
Nah - if I ran 1:29:30 HM that would mean I am not running sub 3 I will probably try to run couple of sub 7 workouts next 2 weeks - only to remind my legs that they have to do that soon hopefully for 26.4 miles - will see how long I will last at that pace - but I am seriously not concerned with the outcome for some reason as I discovered there are more important things in life
paces PRs - 5K - 5:48 / 10K - 6:05 / HM - 6:14 / FM - 6:26 per mile
Reeves yes I did a 2.5km warmup and always do 3 or 4kms before any speedwork. Even easy runs I start at recovery pace before naturally warming into easy pace.
Steve your 1.19.30 half should give you confidence to improve all other PRs. My PRs are all from 2014 and 2013 almost the same as yours except my half is 1.20.20.
55+ PBs 5k 18:36 June 3rd TT
" If you don't use it you lose it, but if you use it, it wears out.
Somewhere in between is about right "
powered by plants
Sling, he stopped for a bathroom break and sent the group onward. That may explain things and also be why his splits seem odd. I agree, you have a good outlook.
Kiwi, that half was so unbelievably downhill, I regret even counting it. I'm considering looking for a super flat, fast half somewhere else to go for sub 80. The best race of my adult life is still my 1:20:11 half from Jan. 2015.
Andres, I hear you, but the marathon takes such a toll on me that I'd rather not sacrifice another season of racing when things can be so precarious as the weather. I guess Philly usually has great weather (although I think even rained there last year).
5k: 17:52 (2014); 10k 36:59 (2014); 15k: 56:29 (2018); Half: 1:19:27* (2018); Full: 2:54:22 (2018)
*downhill AF
Piwi: I was just kidding with you about warming up, I know you know what to do. Just an old man joke.
Andres: Good to see you here. My surgeon was a bit shocked at how soon I started up running again, but since there was no pain (other than out-of-shape aerobic pain), I was still technically following doctor's (and my wife's) orders. She did say the better shape you're in prior to surgery, the quicker your recovery will be, and coming off my marathon 6 days prior to the surgery I was in as good shape as I probably ever have been. Beyond that, I think I just had a really good surgeon, and having it done laparoscopically was also a big factor for quick recovery.
Steve ah gotcha on the half. Still some great times in your port folio keep up the good work.
Reeves you got me my old man mind is going too !
madison - great time, great report, congrats on 3rd OA. Though I was under impression you wanted to capitalize on your fitness and go for another PR? At the same time, per your description the course was pretty tough, seems like more difficult than the one you ran your PR on. Did you run this course before?
Cal - Thanks! This marathon was more about convenience than anything else. It started 8 miles from my house and I'm very familiar with it - I ran it last year (in 2:40:01 in better conditions). I knew a PR would be a long shot but I figured I had nothing to lose by going for it. I wasn't exactly looking for another marathon to try to PR at; this one just happened to work out well logistically.
Sling - Being so close sucks.
Steve - Congrats! Nice report - entertaining.
BGS - Tough race. If you do give it another shot maybe there's a different approach that would work for you (less mileage??).
Indy 2018: recovery week
M -- -- -- SRDT 00 30 00 10' elliptical, 20' bike(u) W 00 33 33 3.83 Th 00 42 54 5.23 F 00 36 42 4.37 S -- -- -- SRD S 00 59 43 7.36 ==== 20.79
Felt good pretty much straight away. Not going to the well makes such a huge difference. I took 2 rest days initially and then conservatively the rest of the week, with an extra rest day Saturday and this has me pretty much back to normal. I'll dip into some 5k stuff over the next month as I build back up prior to the start of the spring cycle.
PK: Yikes. I really hope you finally get some injury free running in. There's been some pox on you.
JT: Another amazed one here. Hopefully, it all holds together when you start doing some faster stuff or when the boss tests you out
Steve: Congrats on a great race. Loved reading your report. So good getting the details when things all come together. I hear you on not wanting to race every marathon, but just running one for fun if your in shape is enjoyable too.
Sling: Argh... so unlucky man. Yes, that 3 stings but as others have said, you are in sub3 shape and there's no way I would let those 10s stand! They'll eat away at you if you ease off and getting back at it in a few yrs will be much harder.
Cal: Frustrating that you haven't been able to get a half test in, but don't overthink things. The worst thing you could do is try force a fast half into your training. A couple of 6mile tempos over the next 10 days would be just as useful and would give you enough time to recuperate before raceday.
Ace: Ha, we must have been right around each other for pretty much all the way up to 18 miles. I was in an orange t-shirt, with a hat and fingerless gloves. Great job nailing your first sub3. Real men go sub 2:50 though... muhahaha!
finbad: Never attempted to run when hungover. Played plenty of 5 aside back in the day. felt rotten at the time the slimy nature of the sweat was consistent with how I was feeling, but no better way to get the alcohol out of your system. I'd quite literally die if I tried that now though! I'm gradually getting past the PF that was annoying me, so much TLC required.
Swim: Monster week. You should be joining the sub2:40 club with Madison.
Weather: Great week. you judged that 4x2 perfectly. That last rep needs to suck or else you've taken it too easy. At mile 10 when those memory cells are activated, you'll know you've got this.
Madison: Very strong running. You've got to be feeling so good about your fitness right now after 2 epic performances like that. Enjoy your $375 powered R&R, I'm looking fwd. to hearing what your plans are for next year. Is an attempt at 2:30 out of the question?
BGS: I know it can be disappointing, but pretty much everyone on here has had at least one of those races. Build on this cycle and you'll be able to improve your stamina. Keep dreaming sub3.
mt79: You seem to have a solid plan in place and if you keep at it, you'll be ready for sub3 come next autumn for sure. That 14hr drive suggestion almost made me cramp up!
Andres: Good to see you back at it and rolling with the punches after NYC, onwards!
5k: 17:32 (11/18) -- 10k: 38:47 (07/17) -- 10m: 60:23 (08/17) -- 1/2: 1:22:32 (11/17) -- full: 2:49:26 (04/17)
2020 Goals: Assault on 2:40! Next up: Toledo (Apr 26)
RIP Milkman
Wow I missed a lot with my few days off.
Madison - Congrats again on another marathon, crazy to put in that time just a few weeks after your PR
BGS - Really thought you would feel better with the taper, surprised it didn't work out. Hopefully you learned something this cycle about easy pace and the hard/easy principle that you can apply going forward. It may make training more enjoyable for you.
Sling - Sounds like your foot is exactly like mine! (see below). Anyway, disappointing finish for you but given everything you went through, I think you're in great shape for a sub 3 next go around.
Ace - My poaching has succeeded! Welcome aboard, excited to see what you can do in this group. I wonder how the mindset in this group differs than your sub 3:20 group. We usually are friendly but can get in some good debates about proper training.
Steve - Great race! Your RR was very entertaining. I may do the half in January too as a training run, I'll let you know. Note to cal about how speed helped a masters runner PR...
JT - Cannot believe how much you're running right now, the comeback is amazing. Don't push it too much though!
Everyone Else - sorry to not catch up more but there was a lot to get through and I apologize if I missed something important.
Me - Going to get back out there. Decided to just rest a full 10 days for my foot, but it's stuck in this mild pain zone for the past 7 days. As I stated in my last post, I have a feeling this is something that is going to bother me for months. The crucial period for me will be the next 3 weeks as I get my mileage back up there. I'll see how it responds. If it stays at this level, I can run through it, but I'd be worried if it returns to the level of pain it was at when I first felt it.
5K: 16:37 (11/20) | 10K: 34:49 (10/19) | HM: 1:14:57 (5/22) | FM: 2:36:31 (12/19)
Mmmm Bop
I think Cal already made his position clear regarding the CIM build up, plus iirc he followed a Pfitz half plan when he ran his 2:48. And he’s 53yo, which means a different approach to someone 10 years younger. 😉
ETA - Steve never stopped running and his new approach was still high mileage...Cal had a year off/put on weight and is starting from a low fitness level so you can’t compare them...Cal ran a 2:48 when he was 49/50? You can’t argue with that.
5k - 17:53 (4/19) 10k - 37:53 (11/18) Half - 1:23:18 (4/19) Full - 2:50:43 (4/19)
Cal ran a 2:48 when he was 49/50? You can’t argue with that.
I thought the whole point of having Cal come back is so that we can all argue?
I think Cal already made his position clear regarding the CIM build up, plus iirc he followed a Pfitz half plan when he ran his 2:48. And he’s 53yo, which means a different approach to someone 10 years younger. 😉 ETA - Steve never stopped running and his new approach was still high mileage...Cal had a year off/put on weight and is starting from a low fitness level so you can’t compare them...Cal ran a 2:48 when he was 49/50? You can’t argue with that.
Mikkey - thanks man and exactly - JMac - take your young legs from old men's property. When you are 53yo, please don't forget to share how many speed workouts you do But I hear you - and understand what you are saying - and I am not ignoring speed workouts (ok, I am ignoring them right now but for a reason). As Mikkey already mentioned - I used Pfitz HM 84-100 in preparation for my PR marathon in 2015 - it was 12 weeks program with all the proper workouts - mostly LT ones (5 or 6 of them), I also added few miles to his LRs (because they were way too short to my taste). But before jumping on that plan in September I ran 270 and 350 miles in July and August and ran 200+ miles each month before that - so, I felt ready to add some speed. Anyway, I am a believer that more mileage and less speed beats more speed and less mileage for a marathon training. I am ready to add speed when I have enough mileage under my belt. But again, that is what I feel comfortable with. And with that comfort I was able to run 2:48 at 50 yo (yes Mikkey - 50, not 49 . How old are you JMac I forgot again , 31? OK then - run sub 2:31 and we then be even - until then, just try to listen - just kidding.
Re Steve - he needed a change from what he regularly did and he, I believe, has a great mileage base, so, all perfectly worked for him but it still doesn't discredit running higher mileage approach. And yes, he probably about 10 years younger than me and at the same time I think he also ran longer then me (I started at 46).
I am here exactly for that reason. I find constant "you are doing so good" stuff boring and non-motivating
Btw, all slow running I like so much based on reading about Maffetone and Hadds methods and trying them. In my opinion, they are both will not allow you to reach your potential probably but the major think I like about them - I almost never get injured when I just run a lot but slow. And I always ready for a marathon injury free. I bailed out of two marathon when I over-did speed - I just find it hard to get the right balance during speed workouts. But again, I understand and agree - speed workouts if added to great base will allow you to get closer to your potential. It's just not easy to achieve that balance between mileage and speed, in my experience, at least.