12345

Here we go again: marathons and extreme endurance events are BAD for you (Read 1000 times)

xor


    On the 2nd page of the paper, it read dramatically different from the news headline.

     

    Which is to be expected.  ET! PA!  LMNOP!

     


    Prince of Fatness

      Even though I consider this a comet topic the timing comes at an interesting time for me.   A couple months ago I scaled way back on my running and am still trying to decide what I want to do with it.  I had been fighting injury problems for a couple of years, had another setback, and decided that it was enough.  It was as much mental as it was physical, I think.  I just lost the urge to keep fighting and pushing this thing.  I think that I held on as long as I did was because I enjoy racing.  A lot.

       

      Anyhow it doesn't take long to get fat and out of shape, so I need to do something.  So now I am trying to get into the habit of running every day again.  My body doesn't seem to want to allow me to train to race but it seems to be OK with going out and running around 5 to 7 hours a week, so I'll shoot for that.  I am not aiming for anything specific I am just going to run regularly and see where I get with that.  Goals / missed targets have led to frustration with me.  So consider me one of the "hour a day just because it keeps me fit" people.

       

      And yeah marathons.  Never again.  Even when I was training for them running wasn't as much fun for me.  I could never envision racing more than one every two years.  I'm not knocking people who run lots of them but it just ain't my thing.  I seem to be in the minority there.

      Semi-retired.

        This makes me sad. 

         

          Right now, running marathons is The Big Thing.

           

          And it is The American Way to find stuff with which to cut down the current Big Thing.

           

          Anyway, I don't think marathons and ultras and ironman are all that healthy when you factor in training risks, sacrifices to other real life things, etc etc.  Healthier THAN SOME THINGS, but that's not why you do it.  (heck, Ironman?  That thing started as a measuring contest.  Seriously, there is no better example of a he-man pull-out-the-ruler activity than the origin of Ironman.  It was NEVER about "health".)

           

          (I am being sincere) I am truly concerned for the big wave of maniacs... lots of folks signing up and running a ton of events without much experience nor training. 

           

          But I don't really want to talk about that.

           

          It's time to retire.  2 DNFs, 2 shoulda-DNFed, and 1 DNS in the first 5 months of the year.

           

           

          You make a good point. 

           

          I've seen more than a few runners go "maniac" ( I call it "runner's obsession") and they aren't running anymore because their bodies, and perhaps minds, broke down. The idea of 3 months off from running or taking it easy for awhile did'nt exist in their paradigms. Some were beginners, who after their first marathon in their first year, started running them monthly, and others were more experienced---doing things like running a long run on Saturday, hard marathon on Sunday, and a long run on Monday, and another marathon the next weekend. Stuff like that. Some beginners are running marathons as their first race.

           

          One of the reasons Mark Allen was able to go as long as he did (won his last Ironman at age 37)  was that he would take 3 months off every year,and then the first 12 week back were at a low HR (MAF). Balance. The body needs rest and time to repair and rebuild.

           

          I look back to my last marathon in 2008, where i got to the starting line overtrained and tired. I tanked at mile 16, and finished the race anyway on fumes. If I could go back and run it again, I would have DNF-ed. I no longer believe in the heroic death march finish---I think DNF is the way to go. It took me a long time to recover after that race. I have yet to return to my former "glory"  (glory is relative). I did learn, though. Ever since, I've been taking time off when I need it (I use MAF tests and resting heart rate to monitor things---when the tests start to tank or the RHR gets too high for too long---time to rest up).

           

          I think the body has amazing healing powers---if we get out of its way, and stop beating it into the ground.

          log   prs      Crusted Salt comic #141

           

            You make a good point. 

             

            I've seen more than a few runners go "maniac" ( I call it "runner's obsession") and they aren't running anymore because their bodies, and perhaps minds, broke down. The idea of 3 months off from running or taking it easy for awhile did'nt exist in their paradigms. Some were beginners, who after their first marathon in their first year, started running them monthly, and others were more experienced---doing things like running a long run on Saturday, hard marathon on Sunday, and a long run on Monday, and another marathon the next weekend. Stuff like that. Some beginners are running marathons as their first race.

             

            One of the reasons Mark Allen was able to go as long as he did (one his last Ironman at age 37)  was that he would take 3 months off every year,and then the first 12 week back were at a low HR (MAF). Balance. The body needs rest and time to repair and rebuild.

             

            I look back to my last marathon in 2008, where i got to the starting line overtrained and tired. I tanked at mile 16, and finished the race anyway on fumes. If I could go back and run it again, I would have DNF-ed. I no longer believe in the heroic death march finish---I think DNF is the way to go. It took me a long time to recover after that race. I have yet to return to my former "glory"  (glory is relative). I did learn, though. Ever since, I've been taking time off when I need it (I use MAF tests and resting heart rate to monitor things---when the tests start to tank or the RHR gets too high for too long---time to rest up).

             

            I think the body has amazing healing powers---if we get out of its way, and stop beating it into the ground.

             

            Great post, Jimmy. Agreed 100%.


            day after day sameness

              I seem to be in the minority there.

               

              Don't know about the minority part....but you're not alone on all the sentiments. Not alone at all.

              I've done my best to live the right way; I get up every morning and go to work each day...

                An hour is also a nice, round number to be data-generated, isn't it?

                 

                After reading the paper, the 1 hour number seems to have come from a rat-running study...

                  After reading the paper, the 1 hour number seems to have come from a rat-running study...

                   

                  So it goes..

                  Dont call it a comeback

                    You got the horse-race, you got the dog-race, you got the human-race, but this is a rat race, rat race!

                     

                     

                      You got the horse-race, you got the dog-race, you got the human-race, but this is a rat race, rat race!

                       

                       

                       

                      + 1

                       

                       

                      Also from the paper:

                       

                      "Many previous animal studies have also found acute, adverse cardiac effects of prolonged (up to 6 hours) endurance exercise, sometimes employing a rat model of coldwater swimming in which the animals were forced to swim to avoid drowning."

                       

                      I say they need a human-trial...


                      Prince of Fatness

                        Semi-retired.

                          You got the horse-race, you got the dog-race, you got the human-race, but this is a rat race, rat race!

                           

                           

                           

                          LOL. Great cartoon.

                           

                          Reminds me of reports of North Korea where there is hardly any traffic, because no one can afford a car. But there are these vans that drive around repeating "WORK HARDER" over and over. Of course this is repeated in between lies about their "Great Leader."

                          log   prs      Crusted Salt comic #141

                           

                            From the co-author of "Starting Strength". emphasis mine:

                             

                            This is just another data point in the at least decade old concept that competitive marathoners are damaging their hearts. About 10 years ago a few studies demonstrated lesions (aka scar tissue) present in their myocardium. A few years ago it was marathoners have valvular leaflet calcifications on par with those of sedentary individuals with diagnosed heart disease. Last year it was found that cyclist doing 100 miles in the Texas heat had blood chemistry changes indicative of myocardial damage. Now we have another example of how an extreme type of training can produce maladaptation. You have to also understand that in all of the previous studies it was demonstrated that although the marathoners (or cyclists) had these anomalies present, they still had a superior cardiac function than diseased or normal populations. In other words, they weren't at imminent risk of cardiovascular compromise. To me, none of this suggests that endurance training or "cardio" will kill you. It suggests that there is a cost benefit ratio in endurance training that we need to be aware of and respect. Unfortunately, the way exercise is presented to the general population leads one to believe that more miles is better.

                             


                            Fat butt on couch

                              Which means I suck, if I have to work that much harder to be in the top 5%? But my point was just that 7 hours / week is a lot less than 2500-2700 miles / year for most runners.

                               

                              Dude, I ran a rough calculation in my head.  Very rough.  Smile

                               

                              Even at 5mph, that's 35 mpw.  How many of today's runners average 35+ mpw over years?  We have a decent number on here, but in the overall running/marathoning community it is a very small number.

                              "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

                               


                              Fat butt on couch

                                 

                                And yeah marathons.  Never again.  Even when I was training for them running wasn't as much fun for me.  I

                                 

                                Half marathons...twice the fun with 10% of the pain...

                                "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

                                 

                                12345