2021 Sub 3:00 Marathon Thread (Read 420 times)


Elite Jogger

    I’ve run a few of those marathons...but the 4 races you listed at the bottom sound like good choices!  But, is Moscow safe and would I need to bring my bodyguard ‘Big Dave’ with me?

    5k - 17:53 (4/19)   10k - 37:53 (11/18)   Half - 1:23:18 (4/19)   Full - 2:50:43 (4/19)

    CalBears


      I’ve run a few of those marathons...but the 4 races you listed at the bottom sound like good choices!  But, is Moscow safe and would I need to bring my bodyguard ‘Big Dave’ with me?

       

      Bodyguard is always good, at any place - especially if you are going not to behave yourself Smile But Moscow is going to be good, it's a european city - maybe you have some people who visited it during FIFA 2018 World Cup - ask them! But you will be with me - I know few English words and probably can understand what you want Smile.

       

      Anyway... Jokes aside - just realized - why we didn't mention CIM in 2022? I think it's a very good choice - Andres even might come, not sure about Flavio, but bunch of other people from here and from other places might come to see and touch (maybe even do selfie!!!) famous Mikkey! Plus, you always bashing that course, it would be great to get a master class from an expert!

       

      But seriously, what do you think? We still can run some marathon in the end of summer - like, 13-14 weeks before CIM? And then Boston 2023? Too much??? 

      paces PRs - 5K - 5:48  /  10K - 6:05  /  HM - 6:14  /  FM - 6:26 per mile

      JMac11


      Milkman

        I say we meet in the middle of you two. NYC 2022 

        5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:15:00 (10/21)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

         

        Next Race: Unknown 

        CalBears


          I say we meet in the middle of you two. NYC 2022 

           

          That is a bad idea - with NYC the chance for everybody who wants in to get in is not equal 100%. With CIM the chance for everybody who wants in  to get in - 100%.

          paces PRs - 5K - 5:48  /  10K - 6:05  /  HM - 6:14  /  FM - 6:26 per mile

          mk885


            Thanks so much for the advice, guidance, and insights and thanks for the welcomes
            Much appreciated

            Calbear’s questions re goal really made me think

            My immediate goal is to complete first marathon training and marathon enjoyably

            overall goal is to continue running for another few decades!

            Continue at least 100 mile per month streak

            stay injury free

            then I think I would like to explore getting less slow in some races!

             

            my weekly mileage has been ~25 miles per week (5, 6, 5, 10) for some years and then increased during this higdon training to max 37 so far and varying between 28 to 37- 5.5, 7, 5.5, 18+ - plan to increase the midweek medium to 8 once over the half on 3rd

             

            reason for questions on long run is because that is where I think I now have some choices as opposed to other 3 runs which are pretty standard

             

            per advice adjusting per below- will max out weekly runs at 5.5, 8, 5.5 and then

            12 on this coming sun because mini taper before

            half on 3 oct and then decide if recover on

            10th oct with 12 (higdon plan does not have taper or recovery around half)

            then 20 on 17th,

            12 on 24th cutback and

            then 20 on 31st and then start taper with

            12 on 7th and then

            8 on 14th

            and marathon on 21st

             

            This gives me 3 x 17+ runs so far with 2 more and ~18+ Weekly runs

             

            thanks so much again

             

            Mike

            Running Problem


            Problem Child

               

              That is a bad idea - with NYC the chance for everybody who wants in to get in is not equal 100%. With CIM the chance for everybody who wants in  to get in - 100%.

               

              I’d like to run NYC. Mostly to check out where JMac runs sometimes. Second reason would be two of the world majors would be done for me. I have no current goal to get all six, and I hear the crowds at NYC are crazy loud. I also have thought it would be a fun trip.

              Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.

              VDOT 51

              5k19:35 | Marathon 2:59:10

              JMac11


              Milkman

                 

                That is a bad idea - with NYC the chance for everybody who wants in to get in is not equal 100%. With CIM the chance for everybody who wants in  to get in - 100%.

                 

                Cal - you and Mikkey easily time qualify, you don't need to enter via lottery. That's the only way I'd get in too. They took it away this year due to the race cancellation last year, but I assume it's back. Assuming you guys sign up right when registration opens, you will definitely get in.

                5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:15:00 (10/21)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

                 

                Next Race: Unknown 

                CalBears


                  Cal - you and Mikkey easily time qualify, you don't need to enter via lottery. That's the only way I'd get in too. They took it away this year due to the race cancellation last year, but I assume it's back. Assuming you guys sign up right when registration opens, you will definitely get in.

                   

                  Yeah, if they return qualification procedure back, then sure - that would be another good alternative - and I would love to run NYC (at least once) - plus we have never been to NY, I am sure my family would love to go. And I think Mikkey was for it too - that would be great to beat him on the course he knows and I just run faster Smile

                  paces PRs - 5K - 5:48  /  10K - 6:05  /  HM - 6:14  /  FM - 6:26 per mile


                  Elite Jogger

                     

                    Cal - you and Mikkey easily time qualify, you don't need to enter via lottery. That's the only way I'd get in too. They took it away this year due to the race cancellation last year, but I assume it's back. Assuming you guys sign up right when registration opens, you will definitely get in.

                     

                    I think you’re forgetting that I haven’t trained in over 3 months, but managed 30 easy miles this week. Baby steps!

                     

                    P.S. Praying for a miracle at Whistling Straits today. 🙏

                    5k - 17:53 (4/19)   10k - 37:53 (11/18)   Half - 1:23:18 (4/19)   Full - 2:50:43 (4/19)

                    flavio1980


                    Intl. correspondent

                      I've been to St Petersburg and it was lovely.

                      I remember fondly a soviet themed Cafe, with a few old TV sets showing programs from that time in Black and White.

                      Also a pancake place. And very large streets, very imponent buildings.

                      I also remember how silly I felt once I got the hang of the ciryllic alphabet then I could read stuff like cofe, restaurant and suveniri.

                      Good times.

                      Oh, we're talking about running, yeah.

                       

                      OMR - here hopes for a quick recovery 🙏

                      Cal - take it easy old man, maybe run just 80 miles this week.

                      Me - I'm feeling a bit rundown, but I guess that's to be expected as I approach taper time.  My stomach was in bad shape this week, not sure what combination of what I ate last weekend, but the whole week I've been having pain and a Lot of heart burn.  It's calmer today after a few omeprazol pills. I have a doctor appointment tomorrow, hopefully the doctor can figure this out.  On the training front I'm so ready for taper.

                      I really need to improve my nutrition for what ever next training cycle I go for.

                      And to have a better quality of sleep.

                      Weekly for period: From: 09/20/2021 To 09/26/2021

                      Date Name mi km Duration Avg/mi Avg/km Elevation Gain
                      in ft
                      09/21 Morning Run 9.40 15.13 01:14:57 07:58 04:57 75
                      09/22 Morning Run 9.00 14.49 01:12:44 08:05 05:01 85
                      09/23 3x (2M + 2' rest) + 1 mile hard (6:48,6:53)(6:33,6:48)(6:39,6:42)(6:06) 10.71 17.23 01:17:28 07:14 04:30 125
                      09/24 Morning Run 8.00 12.88 01:04:13 08:02 04:59 26
                      09/25 Morning Run 7.14 11.48 00:59:10 08:17 05:09 108
                      09/26 18 with last 6 at MP 18.01 28.98 02:17:57 07:40 04:46 157

                      Total distance: 62.27mi

                      PRs: 1500 4:51 2019 - 5K 17:56 2021 HM 1:21:59 2021

                      Up next: Rest and recover

                      Tool to generate Strava weekly

                      JTReeves


                        Flavio: I hear you on feeling rundown; I'm also ready to taper. Great 3x2+1 workout nonetheless. I hope your gastric issues settle down and wishing you a peaceful and uneventful taper.

                         

                        This week was rough due to work being really intense; some 11 hour days in the lab and some poor nights of sleep with a lot of worrying. I was planning a 5x1 mile workout Thursday, and since it was pouring rain ended up on the treadmill, and it just felt terrible. I called it off on the 3rd rep. Anyway, things are now getting sorted out work-wise so hopefully I can have a relaxing final 2 taper weeks.

                         

                        Weekly for period: From: 09/20/2021 To 09/26/2021

                        Date Name mi km Duration Avg/mi Avg/km Elevation Gain
                        in ft
                        09/21 Morning Run 10.19 16.39 1:25:10 8:21 5:12 591
                        09/22 Morning Run 10.07 16.21 1:23:01 8:15 5:07 574
                        09/23 Morning Run: 2x1mi (failed 5x1mi) 8.05 12.95 1:05:45 8:10 5:05 0
                        09/24 Morning Run 13.18 21.20 1:44:42 7:57 4:56 866
                        09/25 Morning Run 6.28 10.10 49:26 7:52 4:54 121
                        09/26 Long run (9E +8 progression +1E) 18.12 29.15 2:08:46 7:06 4:25 794

                        Total distance: 65.88 mi

                        2:52:16 (2018)

                        darkwave


                        Mother of Cats

                          If there is a get together in NYC in 2023, perhaps I will make an appearance.  I really should run that one some time.

                           

                          Flavio - what is suveniri?  Souvenirs?

                           

                          As for the stomach issues, I hope you figure it out.  If your doctor doesn't give any good options, I can recommend using pepto-bismol (if you have that available where you are) as a short term solution for running related heartburn.  Of course, make sure your doctor doesn't object.

                           

                          On that note, I saw my GI doctor via video for a follow-up on Friday.   We were discussing the fact that sometimes food moves very slowly through my system.  His recommendation - I should try to focus my diet more on well cooked soft vegetables and less on protein and fat.  And also try to just eat less in general.   I was a bit shocked, and explained to him politely that I was training for a marathon and needed to get calories in, and that I needed to be eating calorie dense foods.  And we left it at that.  I guess my stomach will just clear slowly   But I really was shocked - he was advising a female runner of my size (I range between 105 and 110 pounds at 5'4") to eat less and mostly veggies?

                           

                          JTreeves- I'm sorry about the work stress.  Seems totally reasonable to me to cut the workout short - life stress compounds work stress and that's how you get over trained.

                           

                          OMR - belated, but very sorry to hear about the achilles issue.  I hope it clears soon.

                           

                          ***

                           

                          My week:

                          68 miles running, 3 hours pool-running, and 1500 yards swimming.

                          M: 75 minutes pool-running and upper body weights/core.

                          T: 12 miles, including a track workout of 2x800, 1600, 2x800, 2x200 in 3:11, 3:05, 6:23, 3:03, 2:58, and then 43 and 43. Recoveries were 2:39-2:49 after the 800s and 5:08 recovery after the 1600. Full recovery for the 200s. Followed with leg strengthwork and 500 yards recovery swimming.

                          W: 9 miles very easy outside (9:43), drills and four hill strides. Then streaming yoga and 3 miles very easy on treadmill (9:17).

                          Th: 1:45 hours pool-running and upper body weights/core

                          F: 12.5 miles, including a track tempo of 6400m in 26:40 (6:48/6:44/6:40/6:27). Full recovery, and then 2x200m in 42 and 41. Followed with leg strengthwork and 500 yards recovery swimming.

                          Sa: 10 miles very easy (9:01), drills and four strides, and streaming yoga

                          Su: 21 miles, split as first 7 miles averaging 9:10 pace; 7 miles averaging 7:50 pace, and 7 miles averaging 7:06 pace. Then a half-mile jog. Followed with leg strengthwork and 500 yards recovery swimming.

                           

                          Really nice weather this week.  I was happy with the tempo on Friday, and decently happy with Tuesday's workout.  Sunday's long run was a slog - I felt dead legged from the beginning, and it got tough after 14-16.  I got it done, so that's something, but it sucked.   I'm sure part of this is because this was my first 21 miler of this cycle, and I haven't really built up to it the way I did in past cycles (I reduced the distance of earlier long runs some both because of high humidity and because I didn't want to be too aggressive while rebuilding my iron levels).

                           

                          But now I'm wondering if I wouldn't be better off swapping marathons from early to late November, and getting an extra two weeks of training.  Of course, that would have me running Philly instead of Indy, and I really want to run Indy.  Additionally, I got an elite entry for Indy, and I don't like to pull out of races where I have an elite entry without a good reason.  Especially since I pulled out of this one once before (albeit for a very good reason).

                           

                          We'll see how the next two weeks go, I guess.

                          Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

                           

                          And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

                          CalBears


                            flavio - funny enough, I have never been to Saint Petersburg (Russia, not Florida, though, I have never been to Florida either Smile. I lived all my life near Moscow and then some years in Moscow itself, but didn't visit the neighbor city. I should soon, as my daughter also never been there and we need to fix that. Though there are so many places I would love to visit - and mostly, non-american places - American cities are most boring and simple in the World.. Good week from you - I think you managed to get the max out of your circumstances, but you still have a chance for sub 3 I believe, and if you not, you just need to keep going - next cycle builds on a previous cycle, you just need to push in the same direction. As for a heartburn - I don't know man, you didn't say what you ate - I had major issues with that 10-11 years ago, but I was eating a lot, also a lot of spicy food and that was one of the reasons why I started running - but even if you run a lot, you still have to control what you are eating, but, hopefully you know about that.

                             

                            JTR - solid week from you. Failed workout? That happens all the time and doesn't bother me anymore - when you train all year around, failed workouts are not an issue, if they do not happen every week Smile. I think your mind and body just want to finally race and have couple of weeks of rest. I also think you have to race (FM) at least twice a year - if you only race once, you losing something mentally and physically - there is no training replacement for the real race marathon effort, imho.

                             

                            DW - as I mentioned, great workout on Friday, with negative split - awesome! As for doctors, I honestly disappointed in the whole system - it's amazingly basic, unless you go to a complex (surgery?  heart? MRI?) stuff, but even there I wonder how professional are those who we trust our bodies to?

                             

                            My week was not standard. Felt some minor pain in the back on Wednesday, but estimated it as minor and did workout, next morning, Thursday, it was more noticeable but I still run, very easy though. Later that day, I started to have difficulties to standup from sitting position and, even, though it was a disappointing for me (I had some weekly miles numbers in mind), I had to accept I am not running later that day. Pain was there on Friday too - so, I skipped running for the whole Friday. I decided that it's ok to have 3 weeks taper and not two as planned, if I get rid of the pain, it will be well worth it. Saturday I felt almost no pain, so, I ran but only once. And on Sunday I raced 5K organized by LMJS Running club of Oakland - they finally got their approval from the city back and now have their traditional 4th Sunday run back! I didn't know what to expect, had no goal time in mind, there were not many people this time - they had wave start every 20 seconds and I was lucky enough to run with two 16-17 years guys which were the fastest in the field. I even gave them run for their money leading from half a mile till 1.5 mile, that I think shocked them, but they were competitive (and most importantly - ready to that) and after 1.5 mile they passed me and had approximately 20-25 seconds on me by the finish. 3rd OA - quite happy with the result - 18:42 and 5:55 pace.

                             

                            My week:

                             

                            Mo - 5.05 @10:13

                            Tu - 9.81 @7:24 with 22 mins @LT (6:07) 5 min jog 18 mins @LT (6:16)

                            We - 13.03 @7:32 am / 5.05 @9:51 pm

                            Th - 11.19 @8:23

                            Fr - off

                            Sa - 8.22 @8:19

                            Su - 10.94 @some pace with 5K race (3.16 miles) in 18:42 (5:55 pace)

                            ===

                            Total: 63.3 miles

                            paces PRs - 5K - 5:48  /  10K - 6:05  /  HM - 6:14  /  FM - 6:26 per mile

                            flavio1980


                            Intl. correspondent

                              JT - So… to avoid having work interfere with my marathon I took Oct 1-17 as vacation Smile

                              Sorry to hear about that, those long work days accumulate stress on the body for months.

                               

                              Darkwave - Yeah, souvenirs. Apparently Russian has been influenced by French so there are many loan words there.

                              Also re: the doctor, that’s one of the things that annoy me about doctors. They should be looking at the whole context the patient is in.

                              We’ve had so many cases of doctors prescribing medication to mom or dad that they weren’t supposed to take due their other conditions.

                               

                              Cal -  yeah, I already avoid a lot of stuff from my diet. Alcoholic beverages, sodas, processed meats (sausage, ham, salami), anything remotely spice as I avoid garlic as well.

                              But I did consume a Francesinha, which is a kind of sandwich that takes sausage, pepperoni salami, etc, very stupid of me. Anyway….

                              Very nice 5k time and hopefully the down week puts you back on the track.

                              PRs: 1500 4:51 2019 - 5K 17:56 2021 HM 1:21:59 2021

                              Up next: Rest and recover

                              Tool to generate Strava weekly

                              JTReeves


                                Darkwave: Nice job gutting it out on the long run. The first 20+ miler in a cycle is always a bit tough. I'm shocked your doctor would suggest you just eat less!!  Sometimes doctors just don't seem to get it, or seem like they just don't really care or want to get the patient out quickly. I remember going to a doctor (was not my regular PCP) about knee pain years ago, explaining I run a lot, and he just laughed at me and told me to stop running. He was obese and likely did not prescribe exercise for anything or have interest in anything related to exercise.

                                 

                                Cal: Awesome 5k time and placing! I see that equals your PR pace; you have to be very happy about that. Those back issues can be really annoying. I periodically get a lower back strain, sometimes it has no effect on running, other times it caused other problems, probably from a different running form. My worst fear is getting that right before a marathon, but thankfully so far it never happened.

                                 

                                Flavio: Smart thinking to take the time off prior to your race.

                                2:52:16 (2018)