2021 Sub 3:00 Marathon Thread (Read 160 times)


    OMR - From down here the need for screws in shoes is hard to comprehend

    Keen - No LR but plenty quality

    cinnamon - Too true. I've done 10 marathons but nothing longer.

    JT - Thanks but I don't have goal times for either. With the half I'll be happy to beat my mates. With the 50k I'll be happy to finish in one piece.


    For the 50k I figure I just keep marathon training and get in a couple of 35k. Any words of wisdom from those with experience?

    10K 41:35 (2016), Half 1:27:01 (2015) Marathon 3:02:48 (2015)

    Running Problem

    Problem Child

      Marby road or dirt 50k? For a road/flat 50k I'd do marathon training and more than 1 20+ miler with full race day gear. For a trail/hilly 50k I'd emphasis running long hills as much as possible and getting lots of vertical feet during training. I think it's something I've never done for my ultras and something I'd greatly benefit from. I still need to make the video of my last one but pretty much when I hit the flattest part of the course (pancake flat for probably 6 miles) I couldn't run anymore. Even if it's just a "because I turn 50" thing I'd get out there for the time commitment over the miles commitment. How many miles are you planning on running weekly with those 35ks? ALso, did you know there is an ultra training User Group here? They have some good info.

      Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.

      Elite Jogger

        Cinnamon - Good to see that you’re still prepared to travel and experience different places and races! I assume that you deferred Berlin and have a place, but València looks amazing...and most likely perfect weather conditions on a beautiful fast course. I know which one I’d choose. 


        Marby - Ive run a couple of 50k training runs (not on trails) but I think I’d be more inclined to go with easy 3+ hour time on feet runs rather than pace. Great to hear that you and the NZers are having a near normal life...I heard about one case recently in Perth and it’s an immediate 5 day lockdown. If that’s the price you have to pay then it’s worth it!

        5k - 17:53 (4/19)   10k - 37:53 (11/18)   Half - 1:23:18 (4/19)   Full - 2:50:43 (4/19)


          Cinnamon: welcome back!


          DP: Sweet mileage week!!


          JT: Imagine lots of folks are hitting the treadmill especially on a day like today!


          JMac: hope fatherhood is going well!


          Marby:  Solid looking week!


          Ck: Still a very solid weekly mileage without a LR in there!  Couple of nice looking workouts as well.


          Me:  Certainly my biggest volume combined with quality week since last fall for me.   Wednesday workout was pretty fun as I really enjoy running ladders and the differing paces which really helps lock in the feel of various race paces.  Then Saturday decided to jump into a local challenge where we raced at mile at 7:30 then followed that up with a 5K at 8 AM.  Pretty happy with both results, probably more so the 5K result (16:25) after racing the mile to be honest which was just 12 seconds slower than my PR from the previous week.  Surprised that I was able to run close to negative splits on the 5K on tired legs.  The mile race (4:51) course was a bit awkward and perhaps a tad long (?) and featured a bunch of turns throughout the parking lot of our local mall so it was hard to really keep up the momentum.  The 5K was a bit more spread out though.


          Have one more pretty high volume week before I cut back for a local 10K race on Valentine's Day.  The 10K features two bridge repeats so a PR would be quite difficult, but a course PR would be nice.  Eyeing a few 5ks in March to take a run at sub 16 in the 5k given some better courses coming up.  Also heard that my hometown of Buffalo is still trying to hold a HM/Marathon on Memorial Day.


          Stay warm everyone!


          Weekly for period: From: 01/25/2021 To 01/31/2021

          Date Name Distance
          in mi
          Duration Avg Pace
          per mi
          Elevation Gain
          in ft
          01/25/2021 Morning Run 12.21 01:40:04 08:12 535
          01/25/2021 Afternoon Run 4.11 00:31:35 07:41 7
          01/26/2021 Hot pockets of Windover 11.31 01:31:05 08:03 23
          01/27/2021 Warm up 4.20 00:35:32 08:28 56
          01/27/2021 2x400R+2x600@10k+2x800@10k+2x1200i 5.01 00:29:44 05:56 43
          01/27/2021 Cool down 3.11 00:25:30 08:12 256
          01/27/2021 Afternoon Run 4.11 00:32:23 07:53 26
          01/28/2021 Morning Run 10.11 01:28:18 08:44 62
          01/29/2021 Sleepy + strides 7.21 00:56:14 07:48 62
          01/30/2021 Warm up 4.03 00:33:12 08:14 30
          01/30/2021 Part 1: Superhero 1 mile (4:51) 1.02 00:04:51 04:45 3
          01/30/2021 Keep the legs moving 😂 1.64 00:12:39 07:43 20
          01/30/2021 Double Trouble: Superhero 5K (16:25) 3.13 00:16:27 05:15 13
          01/30/2021 8 more 😝 8.02 01:00:37 07:33 43
          01/31/2021 Chased by a dog and almost backed into by a Lexus, but other than that it was a nice relaxed run 😂 9.21 01:12:51 07:55 59

          Total distance: 88.42mi



          1mile: 4:46 (12/20) | 5K: 16:13 (1/21)  |  10K: 33:40 (4/20)  |  HM: 1:15:03 (12/20)  |  FM: 2:40:30 (1/20)


            Marby:  I haven't run a 50K...I jumped straight from the marathon to the 50M and 100K.  Regarding training, I think RP summed up a lot of my thoughts for a 50K...mostly marathon training with a few longer runs, and also matching terrain and elevation as much as possible on some of those runs.  The other thing I would say is that the longer the race gets, the more important other things become, like nutrition, hydration, gear, and strengthening.  My guess is that for a 50K, you can most likely still get by with gels, but there is a point for me where I cannot stomach them any more, and in longer races, I also need some protein.  If you're going to be out there longer, weather might also become more of a factor.  As a race-day strategy, it is also OK to do some planned fast walking.  If you can walk a 14-minute mile, for example, walking for a few minutes here and there vs. standing still  for 10 minutes because you've cramped up saves you a lot of time in the long run.  But again, I think that is probably more important for the 50M and beyond, maybe not the 50K so much.


              Thanks all for the tips.  The 50k event is close enough that I run bits of it regularly from home and it will be easy to incorporate a couple of the unfamiliar sections into training runs. Mostly within an urban park on gravel and paved trails, five significant hills and total elevation 630 m.


              RP – Weekly miles around 50-60, will take a peek at the ultra group.


              Mikkey – My last few long runs have been 2.5 hours, extending those out to 3 hours with less concern about how far that gets me sounds…sound.   ‘Covid Normal’ feels good but was hard-earned. Our second lockdown lasted 110 days and at it most stringent we couldn’t leave home between 8PM-5AM, outside of curfew could exercise for 1 hour max per day and only within a 5 km radius!


              OMR – Yes, I’ll need to do some experimentation with gear, hydration and fuel. I nearly always run on empty and don’t carry food or water, so will need to invest in a belt or something. Nutrition is a bit different for me now than before – I’ve been HFLC for a couple of months, doing well on it but still have more than ample fat stores to draw on!  I’m more inclined to supplement with some real foods.

              10K 41:35 (2016), Half 1:27:01 (2015) Marathon 3:02:48 (2015)



                Hi OMR! The town I just moved from - the local running store had a screw shoe day where you could bring in your shoes and they would put the screws in them for free. I thought that was nice. I feel fortunate to have gotten out of there before needing them!


                cinnamon:  yes, good to get out before you need screws!  for us, a front moves through tomorrow night, and a recent forecast suggests the wind chills may stay below -25 over the weekend, with some areas not getting above zero (air temp) for 5-7 days, and colder than normal temps for the next month.  why do i live here?

                cinnamon girl

                  Yeah - quite the week Weatherboy! It seems like you never have to let up!

                  Mikkey - yes, deferred 2020 entry for Berlin. I love love traveling to new places and races - that won't ever change.  How's your running?? How's the heel??

                  OMR - we're going to have a high of 76 tomorrow  ... You have a good question there!


                    Skipped an easy run this week. Chose instead nine holes of golf on Thu AM and intended to shift it to Sat but the Friday workout ended up quite hard so opted for rest/sleep rather than do it before kids athletics.


                    Weekly for period: From: 02/01/2021 To 02/07/2021

                    Date Name Distance
                    in mi
                    Duration Avg Pace
                    per mi
                    Elevation Gain
                    in ft
                    02/02/2021 Fartlek 7.72 01:06:17 08:35 217
                    02/03/2021 Easy 9.88 01:24:38 08:34 210
                    02/05/2021 Progression 8.53 01:08:27 08:01 157
                    02/07/2021 Princes 19.06 02:53:44 09:07 528

                    Total distance: 45.20mi

                    10K 41:35 (2016), Half 1:27:01 (2015) Marathon 3:02:48 (2015)


                      I had a decent running week this week.

                      3 runs between 7 and 10 miles and today I managed 15,which is my longest since October,and total week was 41.5,my highest since September,I also had 1 hour on the exercise bike.The PF has mainly been at bay so hoping it reacts well tomorrow morning.

                      5k 17:35,10k 36:43,10m 61:55,HM 1:24:03,Full 3:07:39

                        Weatherboy: Catching up from last week: great job on that mile/5k double! Glad to hear you will give sub 16 a shot later on. Are you thinking of running Buffalo if it happens?


                        Marby: Solid week and great long run. Golf seems like a reasonable easy day alternative as long as you're not using a cart!


                        Ian: Sounds like a good week; glad that your PF is behaving.


                        My week: We got a big snowstorm Monday (16 inches/40 cm of snow), so I was on the treadmill Tuesday and Wednesday. Unfortunately, it suddenly stopped both days after about an hour. After Wednesday's run it has not worked since. It's old, worn out, and has other problems; the speed is gradually getting slower and slower; now when I am going at 6 min pace based on my footpod, I have the speed set at 12 mph on the mill (should be 5 min pace). Rather than have it repaired we decided to get a new one and went for a Landice L8.  I'm excited to try it out; it's being delivered tomorrow.


                        Weekly for period: From: 02/01/2021 To 02/07/2021

                        Date Name Distance
                        in mi
                        Duration Avg Pace
                        per mi
                        Elevation Gain
                        in ft
                        02/02/2021 Morning Run 7.67 1:04:12 8:22 0
                        02/03/2021 Morning Run w/ ~6 mi @ MP 8.97 1:03:27 7:04 0
                        02/04/2021 Morning Run 10.20 1:26:29 8:29 561
                        02/05/2021 Morning Run 12.23 1:42:43 8:24 719
                        02/06/2021 Morning Run 8.21 1:09:10 8:25 466
                        02/07/2021 Long run 16.02 1:55:18 7:12 1014

                        Total distance: 63.31 mi

                        2:52:16 (2018)


                          Nice LRs Marby, Ian, and JT.


                          JT:  The L8 sounds awesome, I downloaded the brochure because the deck height is really low, and almost looks like it could work in our basement without my head banging up on the ceiling.  Probably wouldn't be able to use the incline, though, unless I cut a hole in the ceiling.


                          My week was a mix of a three trail runs (20.8M) and four days on the elliptical (22.4M).  The highest forecasted temperature this upcoming week is currently 0°F, with windchills staying in the teens below zero the entire week (got down to -38 this morning).  Looks like I'll be on the elliptical for the foreseeable future.


                          Mother of Cats


                            Thanks DK. Question for you: if you threw aside travel, which of all of these (including CIM) would you pick? CIM was such a great experience, it felt like a small race even though it was big. Just curious if there are other advantages to running Indy or Richmond for example over CIM.


                            Belated answer.  Honestly, if travel wasn't an issue, I'd put Indy as my top choice (keep in mind I haven't done it yet, so...).  From the communications I've had with and from that race, they try to set it up for fast times the same way CIM does.  Plus Indy is flat (which I prefer to rolling downhill) and has the start/finish in the same area, which avoids the whole get up early to ride a bus to the start thing.


                            After Indy, I see Houston, Grandma's, and CIM as equivalent.  Each is focused on fast times.  Both Houston and CIM can be pretty hard on the body due to concrete or rolling hills; Grandma's is much easier on the body.  CIM has the best chance of weather of the three.


                            For me, Columbus, Richmond, and Philly are the level just below.  Perfectly good choices for someone who wants to run fast.  Just not as much depth as the other races.


                            Other belated comments: Cinnamon - I hope Berlin works for you.  If we get into this fall and it's looking like Valencia is your race, I'm happy to connect you to a friend of mine who ran it back in 2019.  He had a great race and recommends it highly.


                            Jhudak: plan for now is Iwo Jima hills and tempo/aerobic work (long run limited to 14 miles).  I need to get some basic aerobic conditioning back.   The Iwo Jima hill workout includes some short downhill strides for turnover as well as the uphill work, so it works well as an alternative to track speedwork.


                            This week's comments:


                            Marby - sometimes sleep is the better call.


                            Ian  - I hope the PF stays at bay.


                            JTReeves - I'm glad you are getting the Landice so soon - a lot of people have experienced waits of 3-6 weeks for treadmills.  As discussed on Strava, those things are tanks and solid choices so I think it will serve you well.  The only reason I didn't get a Landice was that I needed a folding treadmill due to space limitations.


                            OMR - that sounds brutal.  Re: treadmills - I've seriously heard of some people cutting holes in their ceilings to allow treadmill use, exactly as you describe.

                            Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.


                            And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.


                            Mother of Cats

                              And...my week:


                              68 miles, 1500 yards swimming, and 50 minutes of pool-running
                              M: 9 miles very easy on treadmill (9:22); upper body weights/core, and then 1 mile on treadmill (8:57) (checking treadmill after lubricating and aligning the belt).
                              T: 12 miles on treadmill including an alternation workout. Planned 32 minutes alternating between 4 minutes at 6:55 and 4 minutes at 6:35. Made it 26 minutes (including a 2 minute jogging break in the middle) and called it. Followed with leg strengthwork and 500 yards recovery swimming
                              W: 10 miles very easy on treadmill (9:04) and streaming yoga.
                              Th: 50 minutes pool-running and upper body weights/core.
                              F: 12 miles, including 6 Iwo Jima hill repeats (2:00 up, 90 second jog, 25 second stride, 75 second jog). Followed with leg strengthwork and 500 yards recovery swimming
                              Sa: 10.5 miles very easy (9:05) drills, 2 hill strides, and 2 flat strides, followed with streaming yoga.
                              Su: 14 miles progressive on treadmill, split as first 5 averaging 9:14, next 5 averaging 7:49, next 4 averaging 7:14, and then a ~.5 mile cooldown. Followed with streaming yoga, injury prevention stuff, and 500 yards recovery swimming.


                              My mileage was artificially inflated this week because I ran on Monday instead of going to the pool (which was closed due to a snowstorm). Snow/ice/black ice actually had me on the treadmill on Monday-Wednesday, and then I also did my long run on the treadmill on Sunday due to a forecast snowstorm that was supposed to roll in Sunday morning. As it turns out, it was too warm for today's snow to stick to pavement, so I could have run outside. Oh well.


                              On Tuesday, I took advantage of being on the treadmill to try an alternations workout (something that Nate Jenkins talks a lot about in his writings). The idea is to do a tempo workout varying between slightly faster and a bit slower than tempo pace - having to recover while still running fairly fast is very good for aerobic development and teaches the body to clear lactate.


                              I failed miserably at the workout. Which was actually a good thing, as it demonstrated that I have a real weakness here. I'm going to attempt that workout again this week, and just shorten the faster segments (from 4 minutes all the was down to 1).

                              Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.


                              And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.


                              Aspiring Hobby Jogger

                                JT - Solid week, especially given the snow conditions. The L8 is a really nice treadmill - I have an older L7, myself. What footpod do you have?

                                OMR - Whoa, seriously cold conditions! I'd have no qualms with cutting a hole in a ceiling in order to use my treadmill, if needed.

                                This past week was pretty good, though high winds (~20mph/32kmh steady, plus plenty of gusts) did mess with my workout pacing Thursday. I honestly can't remember the last time I've started a run at 50F/10C and by the end wished I had worn more clothes and heavier gloves. Quite an enjoyable LR, despite a light rain the second half.
                                I'm really looking forward to the big cold front coming in this week. After Monday afternoon we aren't forecasted to be above freezing for at least a week solid, and there are small chances of snow later in the week as well.


                                Weekly for period: From: 02/01/2021 To 02/07/2021

                                Date Name Distance
                                in mi
                                Duration Avg Pace
                                per mi
                                Elevation Gain
                                in ft
                                02/01/2021 2x (5x 1k CP) 12.05 01:26:33 07:11 312
                                02/02/2021 1 duck & 1 heron 7.25 01:00:39 08:22 285
                                02/02/2021 A little sniping and a little conversation 6.15 00:49:07 07:59 217
                                02/03/2021 2 herons, 2 geese, 1 hawk, & 1 rabbit 7.30 01:01:52 08:28 289
                                02/04/2021 3x 10 min T + 5 min T 10.05 01:13:56 07:21 446
                                02/05/2021 6 hawks & 1 rabbit 10.05 01:23:06 08:16 325
                                02/06/2021 6 hawks, 4 deer (4 strides), & 1 rooster crossing the road 16.15 02:14:23 08:19 722
                                02/07/2021 2 rabbits & 1 owl 2.75 00:23:29 08:32 102

                                Total distance: 71.77mi

                                5k: 18:25 10/19 (solo track TT) │ 10k: 38:56 4/18 │ HM: 1:24:16 11/19 │ M: 3:04:13 11/18


                                Upcoming Races:


                                3/13 - Okie Half

                                4/3 - OKRunner Classic 15k

                                10/2 - Wurst Race Half