2021 Sub 3:00 Marathon Thread (Read 449 times)

CalBears


    Btw - while I remembered... Tried Maurten gel first time at mile 11 during Boston marathon. I am puzzled guys, absolutely puzzled. How were you guys able to like that stuff? Absolutely disgusting... Brrrhh... Not taste, no smell, very hard to squeeze out, not easy to swallow, reminded me play dough by look and feel. My god, how they can charge 2.5 times more for that BS comparing to Power gel? Btw, I also didn't feel any effect from that Maurten gel - but that's totally reasonable - it felt like a placebo.

     

    Ha-ha - glad to go against the majority here 

    paces PRs - 5K - 5:48  /  10K - 6:05  /  HM - 6:14  /  FM - 6:26 per mile

    JMac11


    Milkman

      I personally love them because I have a sensitive stomach and they're the first ones that don't give me stitches right after. Texture is also super personal: I love the jello like texture of them AND the lack of taste AND that it's like you have to chew them a bit. So basically everything you hate about them 

       

      But hey: gotta love the choices in gels in the market. There certainly is no shortage to find what you like!

      5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:14:57 (5/22)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

       

      Next Race: Grete's Great Gallop 10K (8/27)

        Jeez Cal...so much drama over a gel? Not sure how you can say they are "very hard to squeeze out". You need to build up your hand/finger muscles! 

         

        I tried Maurten and have nothing against them, but also don't see too much difference or advantage versus GU or Powergel. I like SIS the most since they don't need any water with them (king of like Powergels but SIS is even more watery); downside is they are the biggest/heaviest of any gels. I wish I just didn't need to take anything at all...it's annoying having to carry gels, interrupts rhythm having to eat them.

        2:52:16 (2018)


        Elite Jogger

          Btw - while I remembered... Tried Maurten gel first time at mile 11 during Boston marathon. I am puzzled guys, absolutely puzzled. How were you guys able to like that stuff? Absolutely disgusting... Brrrhh... Not taste, no smell, very hard to squeeze out, not easy to swallow, reminded me play dough by look and feel. My god, how they can charge 2.5 times more for that BS comparing to Power gel? Btw, I also didn't feel any effect from that Maurten gel - but that's totally reasonable - it felt like a placebo.

           

          Ha-ha - glad to go against the majority here 

           

          I took Maurten gels during my PR marathon in 2019 and it was the first time I ever consumed 5 gels during a race. How much improvement on time did that give me? Probably minimal imo. Good training/good pacing and good cheater shoes got me that PR. 

          5k - 17:53 (4/19)   10k - 37:53 (11/18)   Half - 1:23:18 (4/19)   Full - 2:50:43 (4/19)

          JMac11


          Milkman

             

            I took Maurten gels during my PR marathon in 2019 and it was the first time I ever consumed 5 gels during a race. How much improvement on time did that give me? Probably minimal imo. Good training/good pacing and good cheater shoes got me that PR. 

             

            Same. Always had trouble even with a third gel. Maurten was the first time I took 5 and felt fairly good.

             

            Big fan of cheater shoes obviously. We should have a race running in 1970s gear. Cotton only, terrible trainers, and no gels/Gatorade.

            5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:14:57 (5/22)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

             

            Next Race: Grete's Great Gallop 10K (8/27)


            Elite Jogger

               

              Same. Always had trouble even with a third gel. Maurten was the first time I took 5 and felt fairly good.

               

              Big fan of cheater shoes obviously. We should have a race running in 1970s gear. Cotton only, terrible trainers, and no gels/Gatorade.

               

              Was there that much difference between racing shoes in the 70’s and up until cheater shoes? Just very light racing flats?  I wore Hoka Tracers for my 2:51 marathon in 2016 and that most certainly wasn’t a super shoe!

              5k - 17:53 (4/19)   10k - 37:53 (11/18)   Half - 1:23:18 (4/19)   Full - 2:50:43 (4/19)

              darkwave


              Mother of Cats

                I'd happily go back to earlier shoes.  But cotton clothing?  Nope.

                 

                JTReeves - very sorry about the tendonitis and the interruption to your fall season - that sucks.

                 

                Good to see OMR and Rovatti (happy early birthday) pop by.

                 

                My week:

                 

                45 miles running, 4 hours pool-running, a bit of arc-trainer work, and 1000 yards swimming.

                M: 80 minutes pool-running and streaming yoga.
                T: 3 miles (11:28), an arc-trainer workout of 2x5 sets of 90 seconds very hard/30 seconds easy, and then 2 miles (9:41). Followed with leg strengthwork and 500 yards recovery swimming.
                W: 30 minutes pool-running and 7 miles easy (9:27), and then upper body weights/core.
                Th: 30 minutes pool-running and 9 miles with 8 hill repeats. Followed with leg strengthwork.
                F: 80 minutes pool-running and upper body weights/core
                Sa: 20 minutes pool-running and then 14.5 miles progressive, split as first 5 miles averaging 9:36 pace, next 5 miles averaging 8:48 pace, and next 4.5 miles averaging 7:32 pace, and then leg strengthwork and 500 yards recovery swimming.
                Su: 9.5 miles very easy (9:42) plus drills and 4 strides, followed by streaming yoga.

                 

                I ended up swapping to the arc-trainer on Tuesday since I felt so unsteady outside.   I may do that again this week - I can go much harder on the arc-trainer than I can while running, and it's nice to get a satisfying hard workout in once in a while.

                 

                I experimented some the rest of the week. a) doing a session of pool-running before running outside results in a better run.  b) doing really deep sustained stretches for the calves, hamstrings, and quads, plus the yoga pose "hanging forward fold" (which stretches out the lower back) also seems to help a lot.   It is a royal pain to try to pool-run before running outside, so on Sunday I tried just doing the stretches pre-run.  I think that may be how I go until I figure out what's going on here.

                 

                The earliest the neurologist can see me remains my original appointment on November 9.  Which is annoying, but I'm trying to take comfort in that apparently they don't think I'm an urgent situation that needs to get in sooner or have other testing done.

                 

                In other news, I've pretty much decided I'm not going to Indy  (Good luck JHudak!).  I just don't feel like going to the effort to travel there when I'm not going to be able to race.  And using the vacation time for a staycation is sounding awfully appealing.

                Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

                 

                And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

                jhudak55


                  DW: Thanks! Solid week keeping the volume high with all that cross training.

                   

                  My week:

                  41 miles

                  M: off

                  T: 10 miles with 2x2 mile tempo (12:40, 13:02)

                  W: off

                  T: 8 miles easy (8:47)

                  F: off

                  S: 10 miles easy (8:18)

                  S: 13 mile long run (8:10)

                   

                  Felt really fresh this week, the lower mileage makes easy pace a lot faster. I have to keep a close eye not to get too quick on any runs this week with the marathon on Saturday. Tuesday's workout was solid in very gusty conditions. The effort felt even throughout and both reps had portions with/against the wind so I'm not paying too much attention to the paces.

                   

                  The plan this week is to have three runs leading up to Saturday. 7 with 2 at marathon pace on Tuesday, 7 easy on Wednesday, and 4 easy Friday. I fly to Indy Friday morning, I don't think I've ever been this excited for a marathon!

                  JMac11


                  Milkman

                    DW - sucks you have to wait that long for an appointment. Your luck with racing has been tough. I still think of you every time a car gets too close to me!

                     

                    Jhud - what's your goal time? I checked the front page but didn't see anything.

                     

                    Cal/Keen/RP - I really think all 3 of you are in almost exactly the same shape: a good day will result in sub 3, a tough day may be 3:0X. If there was ever a time for forum members to run together, it's for you 3! If you can work together as a group, I feel good about all 3 of you breaking 3:00 (Keen - you may have some hidden fitness given the MPW you're putting up, but I imagine you still still be running in the 6:45-6:50 range until at least the halfway mark).

                     

                    me - first few days of the week were recovering from my half. I was able to get some LT work in on Thursday which was nice, but wow those last 2T felt like I was sprinting. It was, however, the first time I've ever completed a workout 4 days after a half (usually I try, but have to abandon). I really felt that workout the next few days, and basically abandoned strides all week. My left hamstring does feel better now, but other niggles came up that made strides very difficult.

                     

                    My long run on Sunday went well even though I was still recovering from a wedding the previous night. It took me a bit longer to get into that MP+10-20% range, but I was able to do the second half at a good clip.

                     

                    This week has my V02 max on Wednesday. I hope these niggles clear up otherwise I'm not so sure about that workout. It seems like my body is rejecting anything faster than LT.

                     

                    Weekly for period: From: 10/25/2021 To 10/31/2021

                    Date Name mi km Duration Avg/mi Avg/km Elevation Gain
                    in ft
                    10/25 Afternoon Run 5.75 9.26 00:48:15 08:23 05:13 210
                    10/26 Afternoon Run 10.28 16.55 01:17:30 07:32 04:41 430
                    10/27 Afternoon Run 10.38 16.71 01:19:11 07:38 04:44 144
                    10/28 2E + 2T (5:37) + 8E + 2T (5:43) + 2E 16.01 25.77 01:51:15 06:57 04:19 538
                    10/29 Afternoon Run 6.34 10.20 00:51:25 08:07 05:02 223
                    10/30 Afternoon Run 10.81 17.39 01:24:05 07:47 04:50 420
                    10/31 Afternoon Run 22.09 35.54 02:38:17 07:10 04:27 249

                    5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:14:57 (5/22)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

                     

                    Next Race: Grete's Great Gallop 10K (8/27)

                    jhudak55


                       

                       Jhud - what's your goal time? I checked the front page but didn't see anything.

                       

                       

                      The goal is sub 3. Hoping to be in that Cal/Keen/RP group!

                       

                      How are you legs feeling coming off that 22 miler?

                      JMac11


                      Milkman

                        JHud - what's your PR? Sorry I probably should know all of this! I'm assuming above 3 given your excitement for the race. Weather looks pretty good!

                         

                        Legs definitely don't feel great. I'm having one of those weird niggles where you're not exactly sure where it is. One minute you think it's the knee, the next it feels much higher up. Not a real sign of concern, but I need to make sure to stay on top of it the next few days with massage/heat. Getting to the end of a marathon cycle is always like trying to land a plane with one engine out. Even the last week of taper can be nerve wracking until you're lined up race morning.

                        5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:14:57 (5/22)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

                         

                        Next Race: Grete's Great Gallop 10K (8/27)

                        jhudak55


                          Jmac: My current PR is 3:36 from March 2020. I've come into all of my previous (3) marathons hobbled and/or way undertrained. I did run a half in 1:27 in October 2020, which is probably my best result to date.

                           

                          Agreed on the weather, looks like it will be 29 F at the start, but basically no wind so I'm not too worried about the cold.

                           

                          In my experience those niggles are a given coming off anything 20+ with any decent pacing involved. Hopefully you'll be good to go by Wednesday!

                          JMac11


                          Milkman

                            29 at the start is definitely a bit cold, but that looks like it's getting up to 40 by the end of the race and sunny. That's A+ marathoning weather for me! Maybe a singlet, arm warmers, and then a very light toss away long sleeve you can drop after you (and the temperature) warm up? Everyone runs differently though, can imagine some people want long sleeve the whole way and others would be singlet only at the start.

                             

                            I'd be pretty excited going into a race with that much of a PR potential! Hopefully we can get some tracking going this weekend.

                            5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:14:57 (5/22)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

                             

                            Next Race: Grete's Great Gallop 10K (8/27)

                            CommanderKeen


                            Aspiring Hobby Jogger

                              RP - I've noticed the same regarding many dog owners. The first words out of the mouths of those who owned the dogs I've been bit by were both "My dog would never bite anyone!". The blood coming down my legs begged otherwise.


                              Cal - I prefer Maurten to standard gels like Gu, etc. from both a texture standpoint and the lack of flavor. I've been experimenting with the newer Science in Sport Beta fuel gels this cycle and absolutely love those.


                              JHud - Nice week ahead of the marathon. Best of luck this weekend! That forecast looks like pretty close to ideal marathoning weather to me.


                              JMac - Awesome that you were able to improve on your post-HM workout attempts, and that was a heck of a LR, too. Here's to those niggles going away.

                               

                              I managed to get another big week out of the way. I'll have a slight reduction in miles this week, one more big one, and then it's all downhill to CIM from there!
                              My LR looked incredibly intimidating on the training plan, but honestly wasn't nearly as bad as I thought it would be. That, along with my HR for the M effort portions being 7 bpm less than that of my marathon PR (max HR was just about in line with the average of my PR marathon) makes me think I could have/should have pushed harder.

                               

                              ETA: Finally broke 400 miles for one month after missing it by less than 3 miles in September!

                               

                              Weekly for period: From: 10/25/2021 To 10/31/2021

                              Date Name mi km Duration Avg/mi Avg/km Elevation Gain
                              in ft
                              10/25 6x 3,3,3 13.10 21.08 01:38:44 07:32 04:41 535
                              10/25 Stacking miles like cord wood 6.25 10.06 00:54:15 08:41 05:24 203
                              10/26 Slow train to recovery-ville 11.06 17.79 01:38:37 08:55 05:33 472
                              10/26 Caboose on the recovery train 4.10 6.60 00:37:15 09:05 05:39 180
                              10/27 2 rabbits 14.11 22.70 01:57:03 08:18 05:09 646
                              10/28 I'm just blown away by this weather 11.05 17.79 01:41:15 09:10 05:41 623
                              10/29 Texas and Kansas still working overtime, I see 11.16 17.95 01:35:27 08:33 05:19 404
                              10/29 There is something you must cut - Richmond 5.05 8.13 00:41:10 08:09 05:04 0
                              10/30 "The Big One". 15M w/ 2.5E on either side 20.11 32.36 02:27:00 07:19 04:33 702
                              10/31 2 runners 5.05 8.13 00:46:09 09:08 05:41 233

                              Total distance: 101.05mi

                              5k: 18:14 11/21 │ 10k: 37:55 9/21 │ HM: 1:23:22 4/22 │ M: 3:04:13 11/18

                               

                              Upcoming Races:

                               

                              Wurst Race Half - 10/8

                              CIM - 12/4

                              jhudak55


                                That is almost my exact plan. I'll wear gloves, sleeves and a long sleeve cotton tee to the start and toss the long sleeve just before the gun. Depending on how I'm feeling I'll probably toss the gloves and sleeves pretty early in the race.

                                 

                                Luckily, my hotel is about a block and a half from the start, so I'm hoping to keep warm there as long as possible.