2021 Sub 3:00 Marathon Thread (Read 453 times)

JMac11


RIP Milkman

     

    I think it was you who said that you feel invincible when training is going great, but then wonder if you’ll ever get back on track when injured and I totally relate to that.

     

     

     

    Yep, that was me, good memory. I'm trying to avoid the second part and saying "CIM is done!" Going back in my logs and seeing 3-5 days off for most injuries is giving me some comfort.

     

    RP - that LRC spreadsheet is absolute gold. I've been using it for 5 years at this point. You definitely are not pushing too hard if you're using the LT in that spreadsheet off a recent 10K time.

     

    Here's the thing with MP for me at least: it's incredibly hard early in a cycle and gets easier as time goes on, even if I'm a) increasing the distance I run it at and b) the time I run it at. Put another way, that first 8 @ MP feels almost like a race, but 14 @ MP feels like I could do another mile or two at that pace. You've gotten such a late start to this training cycle, you may be in that early pain phase.

     

    I am a little concerned though you just bailed on that first run: no MP workout should go from being able to complete the pace to just bailing: it's usually a 10-15 second dropoff that tells you that you are not hitting that pace going forward. I am never hitting MP well and then say "this is it, I gotta shut it down." But maybe that was smart what you did on the first workout. The second workout is good.

     

    I'd be a little more worried if you were running 6:55-7:00 and feeling gassed. Are you definitely in the same shape as 2019? No. The question only you can answer is whether you'd rather go for a safe 3:05 and enjoy the race, or push for 2:59 with a possibility you blow up for a very difficult finish.

    5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:14:57 (5/22)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

     

     

    JMac11


    RIP Milkman

       

      My goodness Mikkey - you can create a competition out of anything! I guess I need to start training then? Btw, what will I get if I beat RP? Will I get 200 pounds if I beat Keen - his training is impressive as hell, nothing close to mine - and he is so much younger than me. And we all know, as soon as he resolves his mental/gastrointestinal issues, he will be hard to stop. His mileage cycle after cycle is mind boggling - even higher than mine in best years.

       

      Re winning London lottery - the chances are lower than 0 - I know it's impossible, but that's actually how it is Smile 

       

      This horse race between you three is the best since me, Finbad, and Weather went into Boston with very similar fitness in the 2:40-2:45 range for 2019.

       

      Speaking of Finbad he's been putting up some incredible times on Strava in shorter distances. Seems to have found his stride. Just needs to run another marathon!

      5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:14:57 (5/22)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

       

       

      Running Problem


      Problem Child

        Are you definitely in the same shape as 2019? No. The question only you can answer is whether you'd rather go for a safe 3:05 and enjoy the race, or push for 2:59 with a possibility you blow up for a very difficult finish.

        I'm pretty sure everyone knows there is only one option. It isn't ever the easy one, and the company I keep wouldn't keep me as company if I didn't go for it. I don't run marathons for enjoyment. #CheckersorWreckers.

         

        The workout I pulled out of just sucked. I couldn't keep up with pace anymore. There was no point running a 175 heart rate with a 7:30/mi or slower pace. The wind was destroying me, and the body just didn't push (that time I didn't know everything) like it sometimes will to get through the hardest part of the run knowing it will be easier. The following week I had similar thoughts about the same point in the run, and pushed through it. Yeah I had a 7:07 mile, and the following one was back on pace because I MADE it back on pace.

        You might be probably are accurate about me not being where I was in 2019, both physically and due to having a late start. 2019 had an April marathon cycle, and possible a TON more motivation/desire/fire.

         

        Had I not raced the 10k a month ago I'd most likely be dreaming of a 6:55-7:00/mi paced marathon. Maybe closer to a 3:07-8 like I'd talked about earlier in this thread. I might move Thursday's run to Friday to give it another fair shot without wind, and perhaps in the near future I'll buy some Vaporfly next% and give THOSE a shot on race day.

         

        Overall, I don't feel like my legs are the limiting factor. It almost feels like my aerobic base is lacking. I can run the runs without the legs feeling destroyed, but side stitches and 175 heart rate just make me think it is a lack of aerobic foundation. Gels don't seem to cause/fix the stitches either.

        Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.

        VDOT 53.37 

        5k18:xx | Marathon 2:55:22

        JMac11


        RIP Milkman

          I'm pretty sure everyone knows there is only one option. It isn't ever the easy one, and the company I keep wouldn't keep me as company if I didn't go for it. I don't run marathons for enjoyment. #CheckersorWreckers.

           

           

          I figured that would be the case. If so, then the only real question is how to get the best training with the time remaining. Sounds like you do need another long run at the minimum and maybe another long MP run. I would do the long run this weekend (starting as slow as you need, middle of the run in the 8:00-8:15 range, finish the last 5 miles around 7:45). 20 miles should be enough.

           

          Next Sunday, I'd do something like 6 mile warm up, 10 at MP, 2 cool down.

           

          Otherwise, stick with what you're doing. There's Boston 2023 on the calendar possibly. Use that as your motivation. Plus, you've run a lot the past month. Did you seriously just waste all of your time to not run a good race in a few weeks? Might as well have not even started.

          5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:14:57 (5/22)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

           

           

          Mikkey


          Mmmm Bop

             

            My goodness Mikkey - you can create a competition out of anything! I guess I need to start training then? Btw, what will I get if I beat RP? Will I get 200 pounds if I beat Keen - his training is impressive as hell, nothing close to mine - and he is so much younger than me. And we all know, as soon as he resolves his mental/gastrointestinal issues, he will be hard to stop. His mileage cycle after cycle is mind boggling - even higher than mine in best years.

             

            Re winning London lottery - the chances are lower than 0 - I know it's impossible, but that's actually how it is Smile 

             

            My honest opinion?  I think RP will beat you at CIM.  Let that sink in. 

            5k - 17:53 (4/19)   10k - 37:53 (11/18)   Half - 1:23:18 (4/19)   Full - 2:50:43 (4/19)

            Running Problem


            Problem Child

               

              I figured that would be the case. If so, then the only real question is how to get the best training with the time remaining. Sounds like you do need another long run at the minimum and maybe another long MP run. I would do the long run this weekend (starting as slow as you need, middle of the run in the 8:00-8:15 range, finish the last 5 miles around 7:45). 20 miles should be enough.

               

              Next Sunday, I'd do something like 6 mile warm up, 10 at MP, 2 cool down.

               

              Otherwise, stick with what you're doing. There's Boston 2023 on the calendar possibly. Use that as your motivation. Plus, you've run a lot the past month. Did you seriously just waste all of your time to not run a good race in a few weeks? Might as well have not even started.

               

              screw you and your 20 milers. Just because you're injured doesn't mean you have to push ME to injury. Oddly, I was thinking I SHOULD do another one, and that 14 mile "long runs" weren't long enough. I'm just not into speeding them up usually. Just going for time on feet, and overall weekly mileage. Somehow I'm trying to believe 70 miles a week is going to help my endurance and tapering will help get to race day healthy and fresh. Along with my whole "Magic of CIM. Put in the work and the course will reward you." I honestly don't think I've ever gone into a race confident of achieving the goal I'm going after. Sub 20, Sub 40, Sub 3. It's always been the goal, and it's never been "oh yeah totally." It's just that 2019 when I DID go sub 3 I wasn't having these problems with M pace runs.  Perhaps if I was aiming for a 3:10 or a 3:15 I'd go in confident. Big goals require big stupidity commitment. I guess I just needed reassurance what I'm going for isn't easy, even thought I kind of expected it to be easy at some point.

               

              As for the 6E + 10m + 2E OOOFFFF! So much of a warm up. How would I be able to stay focused? Seriously.

               

              I need to get through 2022 first. 2023 is a reality if COVID Zeta doesn't kill us all CIM gets me another 2:59.

               

              CIM 2019

              https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/4321398601

              Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.

              VDOT 53.37 

              5k18:xx | Marathon 2:55:22

              Running Problem


              Problem Child

                 

                My honest opinion?  I think RP will beat you at CIM.  Let that sink in. 

                 

                I have to make a lot of improvements before trying to compete against him. He's surprisingly talented for a man his age. When I heard rlk talk about him on the RWOL boards I thought he was in his 40s at the oldest.

                Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.

                VDOT 53.37 

                5k18:xx | Marathon 2:55:22

                Mikkey


                Mmmm Bop

                   

                  I have to make a lot of improvements before trying to compete against him. He's surprisingly talented for a man his age. When I heard rlk talk about him on the RWOL boards I thought he was in his 40s at the oldest.

                   

                  No you don’t as you’re already on his level and much younger. You have the advantage. 👍

                  5k - 17:53 (4/19)   10k - 37:53 (11/18)   Half - 1:23:18 (4/19)   Full - 2:50:43 (4/19)

                  Running Problem


                  Problem Child

                     

                    No you don’t as you’re already on his level and much younger. You have the advantage. 👍

                     

                    I will honestly be surprised if he isn't under 3 even though he ran Boston in October. I'm building up on self doubt and need to keep working on getting better.

                     

                    EDIT: Looking over my 2019 CIM at mile 20 I was at a 170 heart rate, and it went up from there to the finish line. The last three miles I ran 174, 176 and 178 heart rate according to Garmin. So I guess this goes with some recent marathon paced runs. The last 2-3 mile of my workout simulate the last 6-8 miles of my marathons.

                    Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.

                    VDOT 53.37 

                    5k18:xx | Marathon 2:55:22

                    JMac11


                    RIP Milkman

                       

                      I will honestly be surprised if he isn't under 3 even though he ran Boston in October. I'm building up on self doubt and need to keep working on getting better.

                       

                      If you keep up with this self doubt and run a sub 3, you're getting awarded the JMAc Sac for this nonsense!

                      5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:14:57 (5/22)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

                       

                       

                      Running Problem


                      Problem Child

                         

                        If you keep up with this self doubt and run a sub 3, you're getting awarded the JMAc Sac for this nonsense!

                         

                        It's better than the Goose Mug. We shall see how tomorrow goes. 11 mph winds so just like the LAST time I pulled the plug, but better temps. At least I know CIM heart rate in 2019 matched the FEEL of this training bullshit. It is a month away, I already committed to a sub 3 attempt, and I have time to try eating gels while running M pace. Just make sure to remind me of all this at the finish line.

                        Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.

                        VDOT 53.37 

                        5k18:xx | Marathon 2:55:22

                        CalBears


                           My honest opinion?  I think RP will beat you at CIM.  Let that sink in. 

                           

                          Ok... Let me understand...

                           

                          You are offering RP 200 non american dollars for beating me at CIM and at the same time you think he will beat me anyway. What are you - charity worker? Or just good rich samaritan?

                           

                          I am confused.

                           

                          Unless you are just a guy from NATO block who wants to piss off a guy from Warsaw Pact? 

                           

                          Other than that I am enjoying this fruitful discussion.

                           

                          RP - where rlk was discussing me - she used to be nice to me, those were good times 

                          paces PRs - 5K - 5:48  /  10K - 6:05  /  HM - 6:14  /  FM - 6:26 per mile

                          Running Problem


                          Problem Child

                            Cal She isn't nice to you anymore? weird. I think I offended her too much when I said I'd throw a stick into bike spokes. She apparently follows me on Strava, and I stopped following her when she ignored comments/questions I'd ask her. Unsure how she's doing now. I think she signed up for CIM, however I've no idea her training as no strava and no posting. Either way, I hope you and I can work together for another sub 3. I'm starting to feel better about it, so this means tomorrow will be miserable.

                            Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.

                            VDOT 53.37 

                            5k18:xx | Marathon 2:55:22

                            Mikkey


                            Mmmm Bop

                               

                              Ok... Let me understand...

                               

                              You are offering RP 200 non american dollars for beating me at CIM and at the same time you think he will beat me anyway. What are you - charity worker? Or just good rich samaritan?

                               

                               

                               

                              Yes, I’m a good rich samaritan and will give £200 to RP if he beats you. 👍

                              5k - 17:53 (4/19)   10k - 37:53 (11/18)   Half - 1:23:18 (4/19)   Full - 2:50:43 (4/19)

                              JMac11


                              RIP Milkman

                                Cal She isn't nice to you anymore? weird. I think I offended her too much when I said I'd throw a stick into bike spokes. 

                                 

                                One of my favorite posts of all time. I swear to you I think about you every time in NYC when I'm about to run across the street with a light and some biker runs the red light and then yells at ME for getting in their way. It gets worse every year because now it's all electric bikes and mopeds trying to weave through pedestrians in the crosswalk going 25 MPH.

                                5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:14:57 (5/22)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19)