Forums >Racing>2021 Sub 3:00 Marathon Thread
Ash
Marby I had to dig deep for the comment you made earlier. I could have SWORN you said I wasn't ready for a sub-3 attempt, and I used it to push for a sub-3 attempt. I'm hoping you get a race soon. Your workouts just look like you're ready and waiting.
So the plan worked
11 more sleeps until sunny Spain! I’ll be packing 6 caffeine Maurten gels and 2 of their 320 mix drinks for fuel. I rarely drink coffee so I’m hoping the caffeine boost will make my legs go that little bit faster.
11 more sleeps until sunny Spain!
I’ll be packing 6 caffeine Maurten gels and 2 of their 320 mix drinks for fuel. I rarely drink coffee so I’m hoping the caffeine boost will make my legs go that little bit faster.
I thought you must have been going to Spain for a picnic. Have fun!
Next: Ballarat, April 28, Pacing 3:50
Best: 5k 19:46 (Parkrun, 2016), 10k 40:37 (Track, 2022), Half 1:26:41 (2016), Full 3:00:23 (2021)
Just got my MRI results. Looks like a stress reaction and a labral tear. The tear may have been there all along and is unrelated. Either way, need to talk to my doctor about the conclusions for both of these. It's a weird result: obviously very happy it's not a fracture, but not happy that it's a stress reaction. Either way, I'm so happy I stopped when I did and didn't just bury my head in the sand, otherwise I was on my way to a full blown stress fracture.
Just got my MRI results. Looks like a stress reaction and a labral tear. The tear may have been there all along and is unrelated. Either way, need to talk to my doctor about the conclusions for both of these. It's a weird result: obviously very happy it's not a fracture, but not happy that it's a stress reaction.
Either way, I'm so happy I stopped when I did and didn't just bury my head in the sand, otherwise I was on my way to a full blown stress fracture.
I suspect everyone who's lived a bit would have some damage to their labra if you were to look hard enough.
I had pain in Jan 2014 that stopped me for a couple of months. Had an x-ray and MRI that found hip joint impingement and a labral tear. I went as far as booking surgery to re-shape the bone and clean/repair the labrum. It settled down before the surgery so that got cancelled and I ended up just working with a physio on the return. It grumbles every now and then. I'm careful with anything where I bring knee toward chest which it doesn't like - gives me a great excuse not to use a rowing machine, so that was a positive.
Problem Child
Happy thanksgiving to all my imaginary and less than imaginary friends.
Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.
VDOT 53.37
5k18:xx | Marathon 2:55:22
Mmmm Bop
Longboat - Great to hear from you again and thanks for the Valencia info! Are you able to share why you lived there and are you back running again?
Milkman - You’ll be back next year better than ever! And you know it!
5k - 17:53 (4/19) 10k - 37:53 (11/18) Half - 1:23:18 (4/19) Full - 2:50:43 (4/19)
Mother of Cats
Jmac - I'm also glad you shut it down when you did. Reaction better than fracture.
Refresh me on the location - is it the body of the femur?
As for the labral tear, I've been told that a lot of people will have those show up on MRI, but are asymptomatic - in that case, no reason to do anything.
I also know people who have had labral tear surgery and were very happy with the results, though the downtime sucked.
Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.
And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.
RIP Milkman
Thanks folks. Yes it's in the femur. Seems to be one of the worst places you can get a stress fracture/reaction, but I'm optimistic. The pain has subsided so much that if I didn't get this MRI results, I would have tried running this weekend. I've walked long distances with 0 pain and the other triggers I've had (e.g. standing on that leg to put a shoe on) are no longer painful. Im sure the doctor will give me a very conservative path back, but the goal is to be back on the road again before Jan 1 unless he tells me I'm a complete idiot for thinking so.
Regarding the labral tear, I agree it may be completely unrelated but we shall see. I'm definitely not in a surgey position given the lack of pain.
I will say in a weird way I'm glad it showed up on the MRI: the last few I've taken have been negative so this one is defintely real!
Injuries in the winter do suck though. There's nothing else to do besides run. If it was the summer, I'm so busy running around with trips/golf/other activities I'd have so many other things to do! Glad I didn't sign up for Boston though: I was tempted for a bit after CIM was clearly a no go.
Speaking of CIM - excited to see the group here go after it this week! Still very early for weather but looking like classic perfect weather for that course: upper 40s and light wind.
5K: 16:37 (11/20) | 10K: 34:49 (10/19) | HM: 1:14:57 (5/22) | FM: 2:36:31 (12/19)
Yeah, if it's in the femoral neck, I've heard that can be a bad one. Though I guess it's a good sign that you're already pain free.
Tangential, but a few years ago there was a well known horse rider/trainer who experienced a femoral neck fracture WHILE riding. The horse spooked sideways (which can result in a lot of lateral force on your hips/pelvis if you're seated at the time) and apparently the one in a million thing happened and he broke it WHILE STILL ON THE HORSE.
I always wondered how they got him off of the horse.
***
43 miles running, 3:30 hours pool-running, and 1000 yards swimming.
M: 60 minutes pool-running.T: 60 minutes pool-runningW: Streaming yoga and 8 miles very easy (9:37) plus drills and strides.Th: 10 miles, including 8 Iwo Jima hill repeats; followed with with leg strengthwork and 500 yards recovery swimming.F: 10 miles very easy (9:40) and upper body weights/core.Sa: 14.5 miles progressive, split as first 5 miles averaging 9:32, next 5 miles averaging 8:25, next 4.5 miles averaging 7:17, and half mile jog. Followed with leg strengthwork and 500 yards recovery swimming.Su: Streaming yoga and 90 minutes pool-running.
Felt a bit worse after my short break - more wobbly and awkward - but that wasn't at all surprising. Since what I'm dealing with is really a coordination thing, not a fatigue or injury thing, taking a few days off was not going to help my immediate issues (but it was still important in the broader context of training). By Saturday, I felt like I was back to where I was before - things slowly improving.
This whole thing has felt like my running gait software got wiped/corrupted, and so I've had to do a reinstall (using things like drills and uphill/downhill running). I've been playing around with stuff, and the "butt kicks" drill is what seems to be most helpful right now - every time I start feeling shaky or unstable (especially when running downhill) if I think about doing some butt kicks and try to lift my heel a bit higher, it helps stabilize me. Not sure how that works, but I'm going with it.
Separately, I was playing around with rehab exercises and noted that I really struggle with Bulgarian split squats (where the back foot is elevated). If I'm doing a normal split squat with my back foot on the floor, I'm OK. But elevate that back foot, and I get very wobbly. I'm wondering if this is related to how I feel most stable running uphill (where the ground behind is lower than the ground in front) and least stable when I'm running downhill (where the ground behind is higher than the ground in front).
In a burst of optimism, I registered for the Houston Half-Marathon in mid-January. Let's hope I can figure this out before then. I've also registered for the Chicago Marathon in October 2022.
JMac: Great to hear you have no pain. FWIW, I talked to my friend who had a torn labrum and had surgery on it; in his case the pain was really severe and it was a case where he needed the surgery. He is back to normal running-wise post surgery. But sounds like you fortunately won't have to go down that route.
Darkwave: Nice week and interesting regarding the split squats/buttkicks. If it helps that's great.
I remembered this clip from Brian Regan after reading your broken femur story; not sure if it's true but I have to think a broken femur must really hurt like hell.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ERbPNL0iic
On another note, it seems the booster shot had no adverse effect on you? I also got mine Wednesday (Pfizer, my first 2 were also Pfizer) and was fine for the first ~24 hours, but Thursday afternoon started feeling awful and still do. It's really strange, never had this kind of reaction to the 1st or 2nd shots. Fever, extreme chills, super tired, super achy, headache. So running has not been an option and won't be till this clears up.
2:52:16 (2018)
I was Moderna for 1 and 2, and then swapped to Pfizer for the booster (a pharmacist friend said that she thought it might be better to mix up the MRNA vaccines for the booster, and my primary care doctor had no objection to my doing so).
I felt like I had an easier time with the booster than with the second dose. I was a bit achy and slept about 9.5 hours on both Wednesday and Thursday, but was fine other than that. Totally fine now, except that the injection site itches.
I hope you feel better soon! It is interesting how everyone has different experiences. My pharmacist friend did Pfizer for 1 and 2, and then swapped to Moderna for the booster, and was really out for several days.
Luckily my reaction is not in the neck, which is a good sign. JT - thanks for talking to your friend, appreciate it. Maybe I'm too optimistic given I had a tibial stress fracture in high school and it was a nightmare. But I have to be. Look at mikkey - didn't run for months and may break 3. It's amazing how the body retains endurance.
JT - I was hesitant on the booster but booked mine for next week. A little worried with what you said, but I hope it clears up for you in the next day or two. I also will not click that link. Every video I've seen of people breaking their legs makes me want to vomit.
DW - similar to my MRI, I hope you actually see something here. If not, this is very bizzare. Neurological issues are very scary to me. I had a weird spell of being lightheaded for a year in my early 20s. I would get bad nausea with it too. Saw a bunch of doctors and got nowhere. You know who figured it out? My eye doctor. It was an issue with my eyes trying to refocus between near and far sighted. Anyway, doesn't sound like what you have, but may be worth seeing an eye doctor if this doesn't pan out with the MRI
ETA: DW I forgot to comment on squats. I've been doing those as part of my rehab (didn't know they were called that). I struggle with balance on those too. One thing I've tried to concentrate on is imagining the back leg isn't even there. I realized when I get lazy, I almost support myself with that leg. It's much harder when you do that, but I actually find that my coordination is much better if every time I'm about to come up, I tell myself "only focus on the front leg"
Where is the CIM crew? I saw a great time trial by keen.
DW - wow, time flies - I thought this week is your week off Great to see you running with decent running load.
JTR - thanks for mentioning about your situation - makes me postpone my booster for a later date. Wish you fast recovery.
JMac - I am one of the CIM crew, but I am not feeling excited. At all. Last week was a week of recovery after downhill marathon. It's funny, I was feeling OK all the time after the marathon, until I started running - then I felt that I needed more time to recover. This week I ran Monday and then had a pretty good workout on Tuesday, was full of optimism for running every day of the week, but discovered on Wednesday, that my calves are absolutely trashed. I don't even remember calves being so achy after just a 5 x 1 mile workout. Things didn't improve on Thursday and Friday either. Again, I think it somehow relates to the downhill marathon recovery. Also, my emotional level is very low - partly because I don't feel I am prepared for good CIM and, partially, I think, because, I ran quite a few marathons by now. Just feel emotionally tired. Still will run the race this Sunday, but not setting any goal target - because I have no idea what shape I am in. The plan is to go with sub 3 group and decide on the fly, if I feel ok by mile 16-17, I may try to go faster, but if not, whatever I will be capable of that day, will do. The weather looks good, seems like - I hope for more cloud cover though - at least until 10-10:30am time
paces PRs - 5K - 5:48 / 10K - 6:05 / HM - 6:14 / FM - 6:26 per mile
DW - wow, time flies - I thought this week is your week off Great to see you running with decent running load. JTR - thanks for mentioning about your situation - makes me postpone my booster for a later date. Wish you fast recovery.
I did 4 days off - Saturday through Tuesday.
Re: Booster - I would definitely postpone until after a marathon. Especially since all indicators seem to be that a bit later is better than a bit earlier for boosters.
Jmac - thanks for the suggestion. The eye doctor (ophthalmologist) was on my initial list of doctors, since this whole thing kicked off with vision problems. I never followed up on the eye doctor since a) taking some migraine meds fixed the vision issues and b) I could not find an ophthalmologist that took my insurance. I may double back and try a bit harder to find someone who takes my insurance if I run out of other options.
(I'm on Carefirst Blue Choice Open Access HMO - pretty much everyone I've ever wanted to see was in plan. Except for ophthalmologists, I guess)
Cal bummer you're not feeling great, and I'm sure it's mostly because of Revel. Maybe we can see each other around the finish area. I'll be by myself this year so I can stay as long as I want. 2019 I kind of wanted to get out of there so we could pick up our son, and I'm sure my wife didn't want to hang around a bunch of runners talking about running.
JMac I feel the same way about broken leg videos, and I've never done it. Just follow the doctor's plan. What is the rush back to January 1?
CIM I'm going to start ahead of the 3 hour pacing group and go for a sub 3. I don't want to try and pass the group again, and I don't want to get stuck in the middle, or front, of the group again. I didn't like it, and the weather doesn't seem to show a big headwind, yet. The weather looks like 45-60F so actually a really warm year for CIM. I'm doing what I can to get reacclimated to 60F this week, and I don't think much drop clothing will be necessary at the start. Oh and plan is to have lunch or something with keen saturday at some time somewhere. I still have no idea what I'm doing for dinner. Probably driving really far away from town to find somewhere a single guy can have a meal.
Missed a workout (10M) on Thusday this week, then another run on Saturday. Ended up taking my son to the ER Saturday night because he woke up gasping and crying saying his stomach feels liek burning. It was croup. Pretty much everything from the mayoclinic website about it, is all you need to know/do. Expensive, AND LOOOOOONNNNNNG way to find out a humidifier and some cold air would have cured him. Just something about hearing a non-asthmatic kid gasping for air with a horse barking cough makes the panic level hit 8 REAL quick. Sdnay didn't happen because, well at that point the week was over and I'd slept about 4 hours and just wanted to spend time with family. almost 40 miles, forced cutback/taper week 2. Plan this week is to run when it's warm and do a 10,8,6,4,2 countdown to Saturday's travel day. I can pick up some gels before leaving town to get my bib. Feel free to track/post about me. Ideally I'll be sub 3 the whole time.
I checked the weather for Carmichael, which is right at the half point. It's going to be 44 at 7 am and 50 at 10 am. If that isn't A or A+ marathon weather, I don't know what is. This is like 2 years ago when I ran it where people were complaining about how hot it was and it was in the low 50s. How perfect of a course/weather do you guys want??? 43 degrees the entire race, cloudy, 0 mph winds is the only acceptable weather?
And cal - if you are emotionally tired, I'll just drop this quote right here from someone I respect. Remember some of us put in a huge training block and can't even run the race:
Your week looks like a really good training week. The only thing I would add is a little bit more of optimism and positivity... Sleep, wake up, kiss your family, drink coffee, run, enjoy the sun and peace - in no particular order. Life is freaking short and fragile
Cobra Commander Keen
JMac - I certainly hate that diagnosis (and appreciate the relatively favorable location), but it's definitely a good thing that you stopped when you did so it didn't progress. Is your doctor any sort of an athlete? That could well play in to what levels of activity he thinks you can handle.
DWave - I'm glad things are still improving for you, even if it is a bit slow. Here's hoping you're back to proper form for Houston!
Cal - Hate to hear that you aren't feeling in to it. Are you trying any "extra" recovery techniques?
RP - Scary stuff about the kiddo waking up like that, but I'm glad he's ok.
CIM - I think I'm going to start off around 2:58 pace and see about cranking things down a bit around mile 18-20 depending on how I feel. I'm certain I'm capable of a good deal faster than 2:58, but my current thought is to go after a somewhat more conservative time to get that first sub-3 under my belt and go for broke another time.
I managed to not look at a forecast until this morning, but I'm liking what I'm seeing so far.
Half of my taper is in the books! Things got a little crazy here one morning due to a sick puppy (parvo, but doing very well now) and so I missed a run, but otherwise zero issues. Had a great time at my first turkey trot. RR to follow!
5k: 17:58 11/22 │ 10k: 37:55 9/21 │ HM: 1:23:22 4/22 │ M: 2:56:05 12/22
Upcoming Races:
OKC Memorial 5k - April 27
Bun Run 5k - May 4