2021 Sub 3:00 Marathon Thread (Read 453 times)

JMac The NYC qualifier got me in the feels. It very much reminds me of Revel Mt. Charleston. Running a 3:05:26 was probably the greatest thing in my running career to happen, with running a 2:59:07 being second, and actually being close enough to set a 2:55 as an actual realistic goal is crazy to me. I just don't know if running 2:54:59 is a guaranteed entry like Chicago, or if it just gets me a lottery ticket like Boston. My wife asked me which one of the majors was the hardest to get into. So far it's New York and PERHAPS I should go for it at CIM 2022. It might be easier than waiting for that 40-40 age group.

As for doing an ultra, I believe the most logical advice I've received about looking at races the week after a race is to literally NOT do it. Here is why.....One Day in Auburn is an ultra just a few hours away. I could go back to a few long runs, and run the entire thing at a casual "just finish" pace. It's easy to bail if I'm having a bad day, and I have a friend doing it as well so POSSIBLY I could carpool with him home around 1 or 2am Sunday Morning.

Jed Smith is a 4.85 mile loop around the American River in Sacramento. I could probably do this like commanderkeen did his 42ish mile ultra (mostly back country dirt roads) at an 8:30/mi pace. Jed Smith is February 5, so other than having to train in some cold I could roll with the endurance I currently have and really not need to do much more than maybe another 20 miler in mid January when it's "freezing fucking cold in the fucking morning."

Oakland Marathon. It's in March and pretty flat. Start training for a 2:54:59 just off off CIM, hope for another amazing day, and get an NYC qualifier for 2023. Run Boston in April 2023, then NYC in November 2023, and MAYBE jog/fun run/pace a friend CIM 2023.

Tahoe Rim Trail 50 miler. July 17. Full of hill climbs and descents. Something like 10,000 ft of gain. Elevation starts around 5,000 ft and climbs REAL QUICK. It's in town, I could possibly round up a pacer, I know someone else signing up for it and people who have done it, and the course has lots of trees since it is in the Sierra Nevadas (no, not the beer, and apparently it isn't pronounced 'nuh-VAH-duh').

All of the above sounds logical. Right now. I'm looking at the hills the Tahoe Rim Trail is on right now. I could train on the course, dad life permitting, as much as I desired. I might could even find trail runners for long training runs to learn from. Not much will be going on in winter 2021-22 as far as family trips or camping so training for anything before April would ASSUMEDLY be easier. This is the weirdest high from a race I've ever had. It's like "yeah go for it because you're in such great shape" mixed with "doing things other than running and making everything about PRs and the next goal race makes the running/training more focused and serious."

As for you and the pain, do what you can and just be mindful of the pain. Something I've come to respect recently with the 9-11 minute miles I've been running is the amount of time involved. I've always tried to compare myself to faster runners, while telling slower runners not to look at my distance. It's time I get some perspective on what it's like to run for 30 minutes at a pace making a half marathon over 2 hours. Many different struggles, and don't be shocked if you feel like everyone sees you as a super fast runner trying to immitate a slow runner in a disrespectful way. Recently I felt like that and said "this just reminds me I never know how far that other person has been running when it looks like their struggling." There are many reasons the pros are the pros and one of them is they can do things we cannot. Go enjoy Christmas, New Years, and dad life. Maybe take a cab to the end of one of your longer 22 mile runs and jog it to bring back memories of training this summer drinking 3 gallons of water and still being dehydrated.

Marby I don't think it's a superpower. It's almost a curse, but I won't let it be a negativity. By "it" I mean the ability to NOT realized how challenging the goal ahead of me is and go after it with absolutely no regard for the negative outcomes (*insert ain't nobody got time for dat gif here*.  Back in 2018 or 2019 when I was training for my first sub 3 I said "checker or wreckers" a lot. Fortunately, or unfortunately, it doesn't stop at just running. It can carry into personal life.

I had a cough Saturday before CIM. I took 2 DayQuil gel tablets about 2 hours before race start. I think they last about 5 hours so I figured I'd be good until the end of the race. Only time I seemed to need to cough was after I'd drank something in the later miles, and even then it was more of a throat clearing cough than a "folding over because my chest aches so much" cough. Best of luck mate.

Quick drive-by, I'll be back to address the rest of the forum shortly.

RP - Absolutely epic race! Good to meet you, too.

Cal - Well done! You probably passed me like it was nothing around mile 23 or so.

(Very) Long Story, Short:

Felt absolutely great the days before and the morning of the race. Met up with RP at gear check and chatted with him on the way to Folsom. Happened to run in to my coach and his wife in the crowd (2 of the 3 people from the OKC area I knew were running the race. What are the odds?).

Planned to go out at 2:58 pace then crank it down bit by bit later on. Started just in front of the 3:00 pace group, but they caught up with me (and RP went ahead) on the first uphill. No worries here, I typically take hills a bit easier than most during races. Stayed tucked in and around the 3:00 group as I was staying right around 2:58 pace and I certainly didn't mind a big group of people to run with.

Was feeling good and very controlled/under M effort and passed halfway in 1:29:10. Decided to speed up just a bit from there, but in the next mile developed a bit of a side stitch on my right side. I tried adjusting my breathing and step patterns but it kept getting just a little bit worse all the time and I had to slow down a bit - trying to ride the line between slowing enough that it wasn't much of a hindrance but still kept even sub 3 as a possibility.

Mile 22 hit and like someone hit a switch my stomach completely turned sour and I had to walk - I tried running a bit but my stomach immediately told me that was a bad idea. I trudged along hoping to throw up, but couldn't even make myself. Sat down a few times and was starting to feel a bit out of it with my head swimming from time to time. After a couple miles of this I came to a very sudden realization that I was very cold. The lightest running clothes I owned were just fine for M-ish effort in the conditions, but when slogging along at less than 20 min/mi they were nowhere near adequate. A woman offered me a hoodie, which I quite gladly put on. Somewhere around mile 24 I managed to throw up first around and then in (so as to minimize splashing) the bushes in the parking lot of a Del Taco restaurant and felt much better. Despite feeling much better after having thrown up my stomach still wouldn't let me run.

At some point around here (it's quite fuzzy) my coach (wearing a reindeer costume) and his wife passed me on her way to a 3:00:low finish (7:10/mi goal pace my arse). At least this time the only person I saw pass me while wearing a costume was a guy who's *almost* OTQ levels of fast, quite unlike what happened in Dallas.

Insert more trudging along. Around mile 25 a volunteer offered me a space blanket, which I took and wrapped around myself. I was feeling better, but still unable to run. In the last 1/2 mile I saw a couple people doing the "100 mile ultra lean", which I've never seen during a marathon before. In the last 20 meters or so of the race I saw a guy ahead of me (clearly far worse than I was) whose legs locked up stiff toddle back and forth for a couple steps before pitching head-first into the roadway, completely unable to even catch himself. I went to try helping him up and asked if he was OK, but he didn't say a single word. Another man who seemed to be some sort of volunteer also came to help and yelled to others across the line to get a medic, but there was no response to this at all. The man who fell had busted his head open and was bleeding decently (and had the presence of mind to collect his hat as we stood him up), but this other guy and I managed to get him up and help him across the line before someone came up with a wheelchair for him.

Third marathon blowup in a row (sick during Dallas, went out too fast for the conditions in Ft. Worth, don't know what caused this). I feel like I'm due for a good race!

Did some sleuthing and found the guy who collapsed in front of me - who won his age group, unless you want to DQ him for having outside assistance.
The guy in this finish video turned around to help the guy who collapsed - as a warning, you can see the guy stumble and collapse on the right-hand side of the video right as it starts. Not quite how I remember it, which is perhaps an indicator of my state of mind. In my memory I was much closer to the guy when he went down and I got to him much faster, and I don't remember the other guy being dressed like that at all.

Keen: Thanks for making a race report; I know that can be tough when things don't go well (I'm guilty of not making one for most of my bad marathons). First of all, good on you for the sportsmanship to help out the poor guy that fell at the end. I hope that guy is ok. Regarding your experience, there's not much you can do when bad stomach problems hit, and sounds like you had some really bad ones. As others have said, your training and tune-up races all indicate you can run 2:55 and likely even faster. Just keep going after it and everything will line up eventually. You are absolutely due for and deserve a good race! I hope you're already thinking about the next marathon.

Cal - If you've run Napa Valley before, could you give me some info on it? I actually looked it up just before CIM and it could make a nice anniversary trip.

Mikkey - Sounds like a painful finish, but congrats on leaving it all out there.

Dave - Well done, that's a heck of a negative split!

JHud - Turning around and running another marathon isn't out of the question and something I'll run past the coach.
The "best" options anywhere near me are on 12/31 & 1/1 - multiple flat out-and-backs, but they're very small (likely well under 100 total) and (assuming no blowups) I'd likely win either by 10-15 minutes based on past results.

JMac - I've been trying to remember the name of the stuff you take for races and just hadn't asked yet, so thanks for that. Trying some ginger is something I'm also considering.

JMac I guess this is the wrong time to say I've started a running streak. At least one mile per day. The goal is 1 year. It's going to be hard to do and I know it. I have trips, and projects planned where getting just one 10 minute run it might be the only run I do. I would like to run every street in the zip code, but I don't think I'll have the luxury  of working from home as much after April 2022.

Keen if you do ginger make sure you practices with it. I had the hard candy type which wasn't tooo much fun. The sofy gunny chews seem to be a little better, and I THINK I pack some for each marathon somewhere on me as a "just in case." Whatever race you pick just let us know so we can live track you. I THOUGHT I'd been told Napa is hilly. Not CIM hilly, actually hilly. Oakland is around the same time. Not as nice of a destination, BUT possibly a better (flat) course. I believe Cal has run both, and possibly this year.

Something I don't like about CIM is I can't find an apparral/swag webpage. I remember 2019 had one because I sent it to people who wanted to buy me christmas gifts. This year, I can't find anything. I really didn't make an effort to look at anything at the expo (it was 4:50pm when I left) and after the race I had to check out of the hotel so soon I didn't feel like walking to the finish a second time after checking out.

Another photo of me. Saving this for later.

flashframe.io/photo/7566441/

Jumping in very late (sorry y'all - it's been a busy busy week).

RP - again, just a spectacular performance, and one you should be extremely proud of.  Definitely bask in this one.  And yes, I agree with not making any major running decisions until the glow has faded slightly - as Jmac noted, I have a waiting period myself.

DavePNW - Great performance for you as well.  I think a 5 minute negative split is actually a very good thing, and something everyone should aspire to accomplish at least once.   Running a marathon that way teaches you how good a marathon can feel at the end, and is an important step in developing the skill to execute the marathon perfectly.

CalBears - you're a machine with the marathons (which I think you know).

CK - once again I'm so sorry.  FWIW, I went through a sour period where I just kept having issues with marathons.  I gave up on them, then decided a year later to train for one just to give a friend a training partner.  Went into the marathon with a "what the heck" attitude, and finally had a good one again.

In terms of trouble shooting, I'll just offer this: my belief is that when something goes wrong after mile 21-22 (generally stomach issues or cramps) the issue is almost never inability to tolerate nutrition or electrolyte imbalance - both of those would have popped up much earlier in the race.  It's an indication that you were asking more of your body than it could deliver that day (which I know sounds odd, given your training cycle) and your body shut you down.

Just a thought.  I wonder if perhaps the hills, after training on so much flat (that's my assumption) were a bit too much.

MIkkey - crazy story and good on you for finishing as well as you did.

Marby-  good luck!

 

As for you and the pain, do what you can and just be mindful of the pain. Something I've come to respect recently with the 9-11 minute miles I've been running is the amount of time involved. I've always tried to compare myself to faster runners, while telling slower runners not to look at my distance. It's time I get some perspective on what it's like to run for 30 minutes at a pace making a half marathon over 2 hours. Many different struggles, and don't be shocked if you feel like everyone sees you as a super fast runner trying to immitate a slow runner in a disrespectful way. Recently I felt like that and said "this just reminds me I never know how far that other person has been running when it looks like their struggling."

I have some perspective on this, since I spent a few weeks running miles paced between 11 and 13 minutes per mile.

It is absolutely astounding how nice and encouraging people are when you are jogging 12 minute miles.  Jog 8 or 9 minute miles? You just get a kurt nod.  Jog 12 minute miles?  Everyone is your cheerleader.  I have never gotten so many "looking good!" comments.

(I just said "thanks" instead of what was in my heart, which was "no, not looking good at all...")