2021 Sub 3:00 Marathon Thread (Read 448 times)

darkwave


Mother of Cats

     Darkwave You moving workouts because "I don't feel like it" is very uncharacteristic. I'm going to have to omit this from the permanent record I have of things you'd do, say, or approve. I wouldn't want this to tarnish the reputation I have of you in my head. Hope the MRI results come back with something useful to your doctors.  Something more than "nothing bad so we'll just keep doign what we're doing."

     

     

    Funny, because actually I always pull the plug on a workout if I'm not feeling it.  It's just pretty rare that I'm not feeling it.   In this case, I could tell after warming up that I was still a bit under the weather, so better not to push it.

     

    As for the MRI - finally got the report back.  I'm not a doctor, but looks to me like it's pretty benign, with nothing of note.    So that's good news, but still leaves me without answers.

     

    JMac - yup, hotel prices are ridiculous.  The dorms are much more reasonable - $375 total for 3 nights, IIRC.  You see the appeal.  They'll open up for reservation in February.  Info about UMD is here..

     

    That being said, I actually did snag a hotel room this year (near Miller Hill Mall) at around $700 total for 2 nights.  I love the dorms, but the lack of AC this past summer was awful.

     

    Edit to add:  JTReeves - I'm sorry to hear how hard the booster was on you.  That is absolutely crazy.

    Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

     

    And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

    CalBears


      Thanks everybody for kind words you said re my less than spectacular result Smile.

       

      RP - congrats again on the insane result. I can go back and find what date I posted my message with some kind of "predictions" for keen and you and there I said I have no doubt keen will break sub 3 and probably goes faster and I had big doubts you break sub 3 as your training didn't impress me at all Smile. I would remember I would give you 20% of breaking sub 3 back then. But you didn't just break it it - you destroyed it. Something I really missed in your training this year, obviously. Or, there are other factors which played huge role in your finish time. Absolutely impressive!

       

      keen - man... I don't even know what to say. Something about marathons that doesn't play for you well so far. I can't imagine much better conditions for the race on Sunday. It could be a little bit colder for ideal weather, but that is basically it. I could speculate all I want why this happened again, but it will be just that - speculation. Your training was beyond impressive, your tune up races were awesome - nothing could go wrong. From my point of view, if I were you, I would check what you were doing consistently and change something. First thing I would change is your taper - I would definitely go for a longer - 2-3 weeks taper, not the steep taper you used this time (and probably used other times too). It looks like the burnout to me, lack of freshness - because you could run those 26 miles an hour faster on any of your long run day. That's my take on it.

       

      Yes, I ran Napa Valley marathon, in 2015 - I do not remember that course was particularly hilly, it was totally appropriate in that regard, maybe few more steeper hills that at CIM, but there were fewer of them. And it is still a net downhill marathon, btw. My Strava shows less total elevation gain for Napa than for CIM, btw. I also remember that last 6 miles were totally flat and pretty warm. Also I think the whole way there is no shade, so, not too good if there is sun and sun in March is normal for this place. All in all it was a good race, good organization - they had Bill Rogers as a guest that year - so, I bought hos book and got his autograph Smile.

       

      And btw, RP, I have never ran Oakland marathon, maybe this year will be first time. Oakland marathon used to be pretty hilly, but in 2018 (?) they replaced part of the course and it is less hilly now - still - not flat at all.

       

      Dave - congrats on your race and great result!

       

      rovatti - thanks! yeah, the age grad is pretty good - 80.79%, but still - no sub 3...

       

      Mikkey - great result from you, considering you had so little time to train and you really got to great shape so quickly. I am still puzzled by your "adventure" near the finish. It's almost like a drunk Russian running a marathon. Glad you didn't break anything serious - just a nose Smile Kidding of course, hope it was just a brief loss of concentration. Btw, please make sure you register for London in October - I might have a chance to get there, it seems actually very real at the moment. London and then revenge race in Boston?

       

      jhudak - ha-ha-ha - no man - no more marathons this year 

       

      JTR - your story made me postpone my booster - now I am thinking if I need it at all? Just recover well before going all the way for it again - but you obviously know what to do.

       

      DW - I wish you to figure out what the heck is happening - that's really frustrating to see you battle some unknown stuff - we need you in 2:55 shape, asap! Thanks for calling me a machine, but the one that stuck in a second gear for now (or forever?)

       

      Marby - you had an excellent race! I am serious. Extremely well executed. You won't believe me but I had a feeling you miss sub 3 by some seconds - you were way too close to that borderline all the time. When I ran 2:59:3X several times, I usually was 6:48 for some time, then 6:49 and was trying to keep to 6:50 for my dear life all last 4-5 miles - I think you were close to 6:50 before mile 20 and I just had a feeling Smile But do not blame me Smile Seriously though - great execution and just one cycle away, I am sure.

       

      JMac - sorry, forgot to mention you. Good luck with recovery, t's tough to always thinking only about PRs. Wonder how your transformation into AG World will go Smile. Unless you move to UK and play geriatric golf with Mikkey...

       

      I took a week (even more now) away from running. I didn't feel right physically for at least 3 days bit mostly I was exhausted emotionally. I think I still had a chance for sub 3 at half point, but I just didn't feel any desire to grind through the remaining 13 miles, that's what usually helped me previous years - desire to fight. This time I just decided to do my best but without any mental or physical struggle struggle. Previous years I was starting to produce that really loud whistling sound of an old locomotive last 3-4 miles. Not this year. My breathing was excellent, no noise Smile. Anyway, that's all I can say about my race. Nothing unusual - pretty good effort - just 2 minutes positive split. Weather was awesome - not cold, not warm, no wind and no sun the whole day.

       

      Two notes about CIM this year - they really screwed up the loading runners to the buses - they changed location of the loading and people were confused where the line starts, because there was no one line - there were dozens of separate lines and some buses left half empty  (mine was one of them). Kind of disappointing for me as I always was praising the race organization. Another thing - there was nothing in the bag except a bib number and a t-shirt - nothing - that felt really cheap. They were not very generous last years but this year it was a bare minimum, literally. And finally, they finally raised the prices, even for first 1000 registrants - it used to be $89 or $99 last year and now they have it at $139 - I feel it getting expensive considering that they really do not have much optional flare. I probably still run it next year, but I still didn't register - which is very unusual for me and CIM relationship...

      paces PRs - 5K - 5:48  /  10K - 6:05  /  HM - 6:14  /  FM - 6:26 per mile

      JMac11


      Milkman

         

         

        As for the MRI - finally got the report back.  I'm not a doctor, but looks to me like it's pretty benign, with nothing of note.    So that's good news, but still leaves me without answers.

         

         

        Given your issue seems a bit more serious than a normal running injury, I would take that as a good sign.

         

        Have you run the Broad Street run? Another big race in the "area" I've never done.

        5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:14:57 (5/22)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

         

        Next Race: Grandma's Marathon (6/18)

           

          rovatti - thanks! yeah, the age grad is pretty good - 80.79%, but still - no sub 3...

          I was never able to break AG80% for long races, just the short ones (1mi, 5K, 10k)

          Maybe you should give up on time finishes and focus on bubka'ing your AG% with each new race?   Go for 80.80% next race

          flavio1980


          Intl. correspondent

             

            The f*cking booster shot. It absolutely destroyed me. I had to take 9 days off of running. Symptoms didn't go away until around 11 days. It was awful. Anyway, even before this happened I was a bit uneasy about being ready for a January race, but now that's definitely not happening. I'll just target something in the spring, probably in April. BTW, it's good to see you're getting some runs in!

             

            Holy shit! And here I was feeling sorry for myself cause the 2nd shot knocked me out for 48 hours. It sounds like the booster shot gave you covid instead, damn!

            What were the symptoms? Fatigue? fever? spO2 low?

            PRs: 1500 4:51 2019 - 5K 17:56 2021 HM 1:21:59 2021

            Up next: Portuguese National Master champs 1500m 2022-06-18

            Tool to generate Strava weekly

            Marby


              Thanks all for the kind words and the tracking, it was quite the cliff-hanger and seems to have been at reasonable hour for a bunch of you.

               

              Melbourne Marathon 2021

              When I ran my first marathon at the age of 40 my only goal was finishing and ticking it off ‘the list’. Even before the DOMS had receded, I was thinking about the next. When that one was done and I had managed to run 3:23, came the thought that has nagged ever since – sub three hours! After 10 years and 11 attempts that goal had still eluded me, but I had a golden opportunity to finally deliver.

               

              Preparation

              Early in 2021 I was hardly doing any sessions; it was more about building volume after starting the year in poor shape.  Nov-Dec last year I was doing 30-40k a week, by Jan-Feb that was up to 60-70, Apr-May up to 90-100 and in June there were two weeks at 130.  I was making really good progress and mid-July ran Traralgon marathon in 3:07:35.

               

              After Traralgon I enlisted a coach and started going to group training sessions most Tuesday and Thursday mornings. With Gregor the volume has been consistent at around 100k a week.  I’ve been hitting the two sessions plus a solid Sunday long run. The main feedback I found I was getting was to slow sessions down rather than smash myself, ‘not too pushy’ he’d regularly remind me, and I think this has done a lot to keep me healthy and consistent.

               

              Race Morning

              I woke at 3 to have some breakfast – toast with jam – then back to bed for nearly an hour.  Got up for a shower at 4:15 and then into the race kit.  I was picked up at 4:50 am for the 6 am start.  Driving me in was a guy who ran 37 marathons through the 80’s & 90’s, 10 of them under 2:40 with a best of 2:33.

               

              We arrived and got through the vaccine checkpoint in good time.  The line for bag check was long and it took an eternity to get that done, way longer than previous years.  The bottleneck seemed to be security checking bags and scanning people. That put me behind and I couldn’t really enjoy the pre-race, I had to jog a little to the start line and just had time to check into the preferred start area.  Having that available meant I was able line up for the loo at 8 min to race time, get that done and still be in starting position with a few minutes spare.  In the rush I couldn’t locate my coach and hand him my spare bottle.  Sinead Diver and Mona gave some last-minute advice and encouragement. I can’t remember the national anthem being sung at all; I’ve seen a video that proves it happened about 10 metres from where I was standing.  It was all a bit of a whirlwind, before I knew it there was a countdown, a bell and we were off.

               

              Race

              Despite being up toward the front it was still congested at the start and as much as I wanted an easy first kilometre the pace (4:34) was just as much about staying out of trouble.  The way cleared quickly, and I settled in at or near goal pace.  It wasn’t until I got to the bay and 16-17k that I found a group to settle in behind.

               

              I was happy with how the first half felt.  I had to cough a few times in the first 15k but that urge/need subsided.  As early as about 15k I was aware that my quads were taking some impact.  Nothing to be concerned about but enough to reinforce just how far there was to go and to not get carried away.  I had to stop and double back a few metres when collecting my personal drink at the 11.2k station but only lost a handful of seconds and was able to get 60 gram of carbs, electrolyte and fluid by taking sips on that over the next couple of kilometres.  I didn’t have elapsed time on the watch face and the main gauge I was getting was on the 1k auto lap. I liked the numbers I’d been seeing.  At halfway I couldn’t see a clock so asked the group for a split and someone says 1:29:34. That’s right on what I wanted and about what I was expecting given the 1k splits.  Happy days.

               

              Split

              sec/km

              sec/mi

              0-5k

              4:16

              6:51

              5-10k

              4:10

              6:42

              10-15k

              4:13

              6:48

              15-20k

              4:11

              6:44

              20-25k

              4:11

              6:45

               

              The next station with one of my personal drinks was meant to be at 24.5k but as we went through I couldn’t see it.  No problem, we did a u-turn up the road a bit and came back past the same station at 27.5k so I could grab it at that point instead, but it wasn’t there! My coach didn’t have the spare drink but I was carrying one gel which was the backup to the backup.  I was feeling a very slight stitch and was worried that the gel might not settle well.  I didn’t think I needed it so made a call to go without.  It was right after this, at around 28k, where it started to get a little harder to hold pace.  There’s a little climb at 30/31k, I wanted to get through the 20 mile mark in good condition and set myself up for an effort with 10k to go.

               

              Split

              sec/km

              sec/mi

              25-28k

              4:12

              6:46

              28-32k

              4:16

              6:53

               

              Got through that okay and upped the effort.  The splits didn’t quite reflect that change in effort level and the doubts started to creep in about whether I had enough in the tank to get this done. I still had the hilliest part of the course to get through at 36-39k where I was certainly going lose some time. It’s only 1% over about a mile but at that stage of a marathon it’s significant. If only I could get to the top of that I would have only 5k left and give myself some sort of chance.

               

              Split

              sec/km

              sec/mi

              32-36k

              4:15

              6:51

              36-37k

              4:28

              7:11

              37-39k

              4:15

              6:51

               

              Made it up the hill and thought that 4:28 wasn’t too bad for the worst of it between 36-37. I didn’t know what I had to run to get under from here, I thought that there was still a chance if I was able to pick up the pace. I felt like I gave it all I had left, got moving a little but just not quite enough.

               

              Split

              sec/km

              sec/mi

              39-42.7k

              4:09

              6:41

               

              Out 1:29:31

              In 1:30:52

              Finish: 3:00:23

               

              Review (Part 1)

              Naturally I was disappointed when I knew the result but I was just so relieved that it was over, satisfied that I’d gone as hard as I could and that I’d run the early stages in such a way to give myself a chance if I was good enough.  It was also a PB by nearly 2 and half minutes, bettering a time from when I was six years younger and placing me 12th in my age group.  A lot to be happy about, but….

               

              Review (Part 2)

              When there is such a small margin between the result and goal it’s hard not to ponder (obsess, lose sleep over) if there were small changes in execution could have made the difference.

               

              I made a rookie mistake by not knowing exactly how I was placed, if I had of known maybe I could have dug deeper and found 1 measly second per mile.  I felt like I gave it all but if there was a gun to my head maybe there was more untapped beyond what I thought was possible.  I didn’t allow enough margin for GPS error – another rookie mistake.  At 35k there are buildings and a tunnel, looking at the map in hindsight the tracking is all over the place.  The splits I was seeing on the watch weren’t as good as the reality and I was oblivious to it.  Same at some of the other more built-up parts of the course.

               

              If I was better a running the tangents, the watch clocked it at 42.7k/26.53mi, 100 metres at the pace I was averaging takes 25 seconds.

               

              How many seconds did I lose not picking up that first bottle efficiently? What if that missing bottle at 24.5k was consumed or even part of it. What if I’d used the gel I was still carrying, would that have provided a lift? Did my low carb diet diminish my capacity to utilise carbs?

               

              Was the first k too slow, I thought I had run smart and conservative early but was it too conservative.  When I got to 28k, slowed to gather myself for a strong finish did I really need to do that or could I have kept pushing at that stage and not compromised the end.

               

              That damn cough and sinus congestion is still with me. What if I was 1kg lighter or it was 1 degree cooler. If my aunty had balls… etc, etc.

               

              Anyhoo, there’s always 2022!

              Half 1:26:41 (2016), Marathon 2:59:83 (2021)

                Marby: Superb race report; thanks for putting that together. I still think you executed things really well. Not sure how you could have known the course would be long by GPS by way more than the "usual" length of courses of about 26.25-26.40. Also having that lingering cold certainly would not have helped. You're definitely there as far as sub 3 fitness, just need to give it another go next year.

                 

                BTW, "if my aunty had balls"... . Not sure that would have changed the outcome by much.

                 

                Cal: I hope you're recovering mentally and physically. I'm very impressed with what you did, racing 4 marathons in just a couple months, all of them consistent and strong performances. I do think maybe all those races took a toll by the time of CIM, physical and mental, and made it tougher to execute sub 3. If you recharge and get back to the standard tried and true CalBears training formula, you will easily get into sub 3 shape.

                 

                Flavio: Symptoms were: constant headache (literally non-stop for about 10 day; I was on Advil or Tylenol every 8 hours, 24/7 to keep that at bay), severe chills, alternating with breaking into a sweat, very deep soreness all over, and just feeling exhausted. I never felt that bad from having the flu or other bad colds. And yes, I started to think maybe I just coincidentally got covid right around when I got the shot, but 2 covid tests were negative. Plus I never had the other symptoms from covid like congestions, cough, or loss of smell or taste. I won't tell anybody else what to do, but man, do I wish I had not gotten that f*&%ing shot!

                2:52:16 (2018)

                  JT your experience is enough for me to not get a booster shot. Hopefully they don't mandate it here.....

                   

                  Marby great job. I found this old photo of Melbourne 2014 and I got a similar distance

                  50+ PBs -  

                  5k 18.21 Hagley Parkrun  July 21      82.27 % age grade

                  10k TT 37.21 may 2nd 2021 strava run 82.51 % age grade

                  Half marathon  1.23.30 may 21 80.11 % age grade

                  " If you don't use it you lose it,  but if you use it, it wears out.

                  Somewhere in between is about right "      

                   

                  JMac11


                  Milkman

                    JT your experience is enough for me to not get a booster shot. Hopefully they don't mandate it here.....

                     

                    Marby great job. I found this old photo of Melbourne 2014 and I got a similar distance

                     

                     

                    Nice humblebrag there 

                    5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:14:57 (5/22)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

                     

                    Next Race: Grandma's Marathon (6/18)

                    SteveChCh


                    Hot Weather Complainer

                      JMac - heh, that was my first thought too except knowing piwi that wasn't the intent.

                       

                      piwi - They will mandate it for sure, or at least, exclude you from society if you don't want it.  This whole thing is insanity when people can get so sick from a vaccine for a disease that is almost certain to have far less impact.  I'm also very wary of the booster.  No-one has scanned my vaccine passport yet, half the time they don't even ask, and when they do they definitely don't look hard enough to check the expiry date so maybe the booster can be avoided.

                       

                      Marby - Great race report.  I had a similar issue in my recent half where I missed the target by 8 seconds - I didn't know how close I was, and I thought the margin was much wider.  I couldn't have given any more though, and it sounds like you couldn't have either.  25 seconds isn't the difference between a good and bad race though, you should be very proud especially with a PB.  They don't come easy.

                      Net Downhill PB Southern Lakes Half Marathon 2022 1:27:32, Flat Course PB Christchurch 2016 1:29.25

                      Recent Races:   Southern Lakes Half Marathon 1:27:32 May 7, 2022, Motorway 10km 40:49 February 27, 2022, Selwyn Running Festival Half-Marathon 1:29:32  November 7, 2021

                      Race plan:  Wellington Half Marathon June 19, 2022 (likely marathon tempo session). Melbourne Marathon October 2, 2022.  Queenstown Half Marathon November 19, 2022

                        Brag ? I don't know what you mean 

                         

                        Steve same for me. Got scanned once at Patrick's pies 1st day of passports and then nothing.

                        I won't get a booster unless I can't work without it.

                        50+ PBs -  

                        5k 18.21 Hagley Parkrun  July 21      82.27 % age grade

                        10k TT 37.21 may 2nd 2021 strava run 82.51 % age grade

                        Half marathon  1.23.30 may 21 80.11 % age grade

                        " If you don't use it you lose it,  but if you use it, it wears out.

                        Somewhere in between is about right "      

                         

                        SteveChCh


                        Hot Weather Complainer

                          The problem will be travelling.  You won't even be able to get on a flight to visit your daughter in Christchurch when it expires.

                          Net Downhill PB Southern Lakes Half Marathon 2022 1:27:32, Flat Course PB Christchurch 2016 1:29.25

                          Recent Races:   Southern Lakes Half Marathon 1:27:32 May 7, 2022, Motorway 10km 40:49 February 27, 2022, Selwyn Running Festival Half-Marathon 1:29:32  November 7, 2021

                          Race plan:  Wellington Half Marathon June 19, 2022 (likely marathon tempo session). Melbourne Marathon October 2, 2022.  Queenstown Half Marathon November 19, 2022

                          Running Problem


                          Problem Child

                            Cal Thanks. I don't think anyone missed anything in my training. I was continually doubting myself the entire time. Once I broke 40 in that 6.1 mile 10k I had to put in more effort and get really serious about training. I told myself "the magic of CIM" exists but only if I work for it, and I had to take the advice I'd given other people.

                             

                            EDIT: CIM buses were definitely different this year. The race price didn't shock me. Cost of living went up and due to covid 19 they have to make up for the lost year of revenue. I think the days of the $99 re-run special are gone forever. Just wait until CIM costs $220 for those who sign up after the re run special sells out. It will cost the same as those big marathons. The busy keen and I rode seemed empty. My complaint was the person reading something only read it once, with a mask on, at the front of the bus. I have no clue what he said because he didn't speak loud enough or come to the back of the bus to tell us whatever was so important. I haven't registered and it would be my 5th year. Previously they gave out something for runners in their 5/10/15/20/25 running. I didn't even see the names of all participants printed out anywhere. At least they allowed spectators along the course.

                            Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.

                            VDOT 54.9

                            5k19:35 | Marathon 2:56:07

                            CommanderKeen


                            Aspiring Hobby Jogger

                              OMR - Thanks for the info on Fargo. Sounds like I'd need to put in plenty of time around the local lakes or my little "speed loop" in town to prepare for something that flat.
                              Hooray for the final days of finals!


                              RP - I concur with JMac, we need a stream-of-consciousness RR.
                              Going slow is that I think I might have a bit of a bug - HR being higher-than-typical for effort/pace and I'm just taking it easy. No symptoms other than that elevated HR, very slight fatigue, and a bit of "awareness" of my eyeballs (if that makes sense).


                              Cal - Thanks for the input on Napa, that is a possibility (as are Grandma's, Fargo, and some others).
                              This was my first time with a taper that steep, so I may well adjust that some.
                              I also noticed they adjusted the bus loading locations for CIM, but I was specifically looking for it (one location was originally right by my hotel). RP and I just walked ourselves to a (full) bus without issue and ended up being one of the very first to get to Folsom. I'll say this simplified my decision to bring a drop bag. The busses leaving from the bag drop was an easy decision, I wouldn't have wanted to go a mile to the bag drop and then another mile back where I came from to get on a bus.
                              Expo was definitely much smaller than I expected, even with covid measures.
                              I'm also considering a re-run of CIM, but that's a very long way off.


                              DWave - Glad nothing seems truly amiss on your MRI, though I'm sure a definite answer regarding anything would be welcome.


                              Rovatti - Getting to 80% AG at any distance is majorly impressive to me and far beyond anything I've ever managed.

                               

                              Marby - Thanks for the great RR, and congrats again on a very solid race.

                              5k: 18:14 11/21 │ 10k: 37:55 9/21 │ HM: 1:23:22 4/22 │ M: 3:04:13 11/18

                               

                              Upcoming Races:

                               

                              Wurst Race Half - 10/8

                              CIM - 12/4

                              JMac11


                              Milkman


                                Cal - Thanks for the input on Napa, that is a possibility (as are Grandma's, Fargo, and some others).

                                 

                                Run Grandma's!!! We need to plan to meet up again for the 2nd time for a beer in the finishing area, because clearly neither of us met our goal at CIM to do so 

                                 

                                I may regret this, but I will volunteer to run the thread next year. I plan on 2 marathons next year, so why the hell not? Get ready for the return of your benevolent dictator 

                                5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:14:57 (5/22)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

                                 

                                Next Race: Grandma's Marathon (6/18)