2021 Sub 3:00 Marathon Thread (Read 453 times)

Running Problem


Problem Child

    Strava is Facebook for runners/cyclists. Share your photos of your run/ride with people who are into that kind of thing. See the workouts others do or impress people with what YOU can do. All while making sure you express your disgust with people letting their dogs/kids run off leash. 

     

    gps measured course counts as a PR depending who you ask. The one I ran measured 3.12 on my watch. Someone other folks had it measure short. At least one of them ran the longer distance but reports the faster 5k time. It’s better than my friend who claimed a 1 minute PR without posting his run to Strava and only after being called out by me did he post a time 2 minutes slower.

     

     

     

    edit: I’m going to sign up for CIM. Right now I except it to happen while at the same time I won’t be shock if an even with 10,000 people running through four or five cities won’t be allowed due to Covid 19. I’m a little upset they aren’t offering another 3 year deferral and it almost sounds like they’re keeping the money if the race is canceled. It could be my bad reading comprehension. $160 seems high for this race though.

    Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.

    VDOT 53.37 

    5k18:xx | Marathon 2:55:22

    darkwave


    Mother of Cats

       

       

      I can't remember which race you did 2 or 3 years ago DW where they botched the turnaround point. Even in that one, I remember a few people showing long. When nobody shows long, it's a very short course.

       

      That was Cherry Blossom.  My Garmin measured 10.04 that day and I honestly thought the course was overall accurate until they announced it wasn't (I had one mile that measured short, followed by a mile that measured a bit long - so I thought the mile markers were just off)

       

      Interestingly, I know a few people who ran "PRs" that day and insisted on claiming the PRs even after it was announced the course was short. I disagreed with that decision, but we are all different... 

       

      I had a friend whose Garmin always measured short.  If his Garmin measured 3.11, the 5K was almost certainly long.  I know that on my own running routes, there are places where my Garmin will consistently overmeasure; and places where it will consistently undermeasure.  I could see a race where everyone's Garmin's measured short being accurate if a good chunk of the race course was under an underpass.

       

      But that's why I really don't like using Garmins as the measure of distance.  They are simply not as accurate as we would like them to be.

      Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

       

      And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

      CalBears


         

        edit: I’m going to sign up for CIM. Right now I except it to happen while at the same time I won’t be shock if an even with 10,000 people running through four or five cities won’t be allowed due to Covid 19. I’m a little upset they aren’t offering another 3 year deferral and it almost sounds like they’re keeping the money if the race is canceled. It could be my bad reading comprehension. $160 seems high for this race though.

         

        I signed up for CIM a few minutes ago. I also believe it's going to happen (hopefully, no other UK variants of covid show up  Smile ).

         

        RP: Not sure why you upset about not having 3 years deferral program. They clearly stated this:

        ...

        We will provide refunds to all registrants ONLY if the event is unable to be conducted as an in-person event, 

        ...

        It's not 3 years program, but it is a refund, so, I am not sharing your concern here. I did not expect them to have that 3 years thing last year, so, I think just a refund or deferral to the next year (which basically what refund is) is enough. Btw, I used a voucher from the last year cancelled race - and in my case, if the race is cancelled this year, my voucher code will be restored and I can use it next year. Though I would prefer to just run race this year (because I am getting older and older Sad  )

         

        darkwave - amazing HM time - 1:27 !!! That means you are in a sub 3 shape (or close to it). Congrats. Really envious - not sure if I am able to run sub 1:40 HM right now Smile

        paces PRs - 5K - 5:48  /  10K - 6:05  /  HM - 6:14  /  FM - 6:26 per mile

        CalBears


          Unpopular opinion: is Strava/Garmin really an accurate measure?  I wouldn't assume someone's time trial PR was questionable based just on the distance on Strava, without knowing more.

           

          FWIW, I know people whose Garmins consistently measure short on certified courses.

           

          By now, I had 4 different Garmin watches - they all consistently measure long on certified courses - never ever I had a distance measured  short on a certified course. There is this one local "certified" HM course which in my case was measured short by 0.15mi twice for me but since then the race acknowledged that their course is short Smile. After, actually, many runners  complained and threatened not to run their race anymore Smile

          paces PRs - 5K - 5:48  /  10K - 6:05  /  HM - 6:14  /  FM - 6:26 per mile

          OMR


             

             OMR - I just checked the schedule and realized you were only 5 weeks out.  Not too far.

            Yeah, I've got to decide what to do with this one.  I don't know that I'm ready to race it right now, so I may just train through it.

             

            cinammon:  Yes, I'm going to church on Saturdays right now, and fyi, none of my runs are shirtless!  That's a nice 2-hour run @ 7:35.  Looks like you're getting back into a good routine.  And 4 Moose Mugs over a seven year span is pretty damn impressive.

            Mikkey:  +1 regarding Dwave & cinnamon.  (You know, your comment from two pages ago...)

            dps:  That's an impressive week, and congrats on Pfizer Jab #1.

             

            Time Trials:  None of mine have been PRs, so I don't need to worry about whether or not my Garmin measured them accurately.

            Mikkey


            Mmmm Bop

              My local Brighton half marathon (which is a fairly big event) have messed up on a few occasions!  In 2012 it was 0.33 miles too long, I was a volunteer at the finish line and knew they must have put the cones in the wrong place judging by the amount of disappointed runners staring at their watches in disbelief!  Then from 2015 to 2017 they discovered that the course was 146m too short which meant that everyone was notified and the course records were void.

               

              I’ve also had a few different Garmins over the years and never had a short reading on a road race.

              5k - 17:53 (4/19)   10k - 37:53 (11/18)   Half - 1:23:18 (4/19)   Full - 2:50:43 (4/19)

              Andres1045


                 

                That was Cherry Blossom.  My Garmin measured 10.04 that day and I honestly thought the course was overall accurate until they announced it wasn't (I had one mile that measured short, followed by a mile that measured a bit long - so I thought the mile markers were just off)

                 

                Interestingly, I know a few people who ran "PRs" that day and insisted on claiming the PRs even after it was announced the course was short. I disagreed with that decision, but we are all different... 

                 

                Ah, yes, Cherry Blossom 2019. Mine measured 10.02. That should have been a clear sign that it was short, but really it didn't even cross my mind. I put it on my Strava "PR" links right after, and see that I haven't taken it down since. But at the same time, I'm happy to tell anyone that allows me to talk about running for more than 2 minutes the full story--That I was elated to crack 1 hour for 10 miles on my 40th birthday, and then devastated at getting the email the week later telling me it was short. I ran 59:54 and the email said to add 7 seconds if you were at around 6 flat pace (so approximately 1:00:01). Yeah, that sucked. I guess I could update my Strava PR with my second fastest 10 mile race result, which is like 1:10...but, eh.

                 

                I've also run a couple of "5 mile" races on certified courses that I know where both quite short. Ran both of those under 29 minutes. If someone were to ask me what my PR is for 5 miles, I would be thrilled. Not because I want to tell them that it's under 29 minutes (which I totally would...I think one was 28:40), but because there would be someone that actually wants to talk about running to that degree. I'd also tell them how short I suspect the course to be. But in both of those races, I know that I ran them extremely well. So I'm proud of both, even though I don't have any real idea of what the true distance is. I don't care. Maybe it would have been 29:10. Fine.

                 

                If you want to be super strict about what a PR is, I'm cool with that. If you don't care or you want to embellish your accomplishments, fine by me. I totally agree with the "we are all different" comment. For me, comparing JMac's 2:36 to my 2:57 marathon PR, I know there's a huge difference. Comparing my 2:57 to someone's 2:59, we are the same in my eyes. I don't care so much about being precise, especially when you consider we run races on different courses with different conditions.

                 

                I also will never, ever run a PR in a time trial. I absolutely need the adrenaline that comes with a real road race to do my best. I ran a Virtual Marathon this winter, stopping at 26.2. I knew it wasn't a full marathon, but it was not anything close to a PR. Maybe if it was, I would have forced myself to run an extra .1, but even that might not have been enough. I thought I was doing well enough not to stop my watch even though I was running through the streets of Barcelona! I'll still count that towards my total of marathons I've run.

                 

                With regards to upcoming races...I signed up for NYC this morning (which, like Cal I assume, caused me to come back here to see what's shakin). I've opted for either 2022 or 2021. I also plan to register for Boston. Depending on those, if I don't get in to either, may run Barcelona. I also want to run Valencia with Mikkey if there is space when registration opens. So I'm hoping to do at least 2, if not 3 marathons this fall. Time to get in shape!

                Upcoming races: Boston

                darkwave


                Mother of Cats

                  Andres - good to see you back!  Hopefully this is the first post in a return?

                   

                  I thought about you while writing about Cherry Blossom - I always felt a bit guilty that you and Ace came to DC to run a race that I was really pushing as a great race, only to get screwed like that.

                   

                  Regarding your thoughts on PRs - I think one facet of the issue is that there's a tendency to see PRs as a competition of some sort, and to rank them against each other (things like the ranking of marathon times for getting into Boston certainly encourage this).  If you are doing that, then it's understandable why one might impose rules on "what is a PR" and criticize others who don't meet one's standards.

                   

                  Honestly, I think you can only truly compare times within the same race on the same day.  But that doesn't stop us from doing it elsewhere anyways.

                   

                  JTReeves- how are you feeling?  Only a few days to go!

                  Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

                   

                  And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

                  Running Problem


                  Problem Child

                    Wait, so now we compare PRs? I'm still a 3:56 marathoner because it is my personal record of when I decided to make a change. The rest are just a bunch of numbers blurred together.

                     

                    I signed up for CIM. We shall see how the next 8 months goes to determine what a goal would be. Obvious goal is a sub 3 because I expect my 2019 time to be useless once I've applied to the October COVID 19 Boston Marathon.

                    Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.

                    VDOT 53.37 

                    5k18:xx | Marathon 2:55:22

                    Andres1045


                      Andres - good to see you back!  Hopefully this is the first post in a return?

                       

                      I thought about you while writing about Cherry Blossom - I always felt a bit guilty that you and Ace came to DC to run a race that I was really pushing as a great race, only to get screwed like that.

                       

                       

                      Yes! As long as I think races will actually start back, I'll return. Was hard to keep up without me doing actual training.

                       

                      Don't spend another moment worrying about hyping Cherry Blossom. Yeah, the misplaced cone thing sucked, but I otherwise loved the race and my weekend in DC.

                      Upcoming races: Boston

                      JMac11


                      RIP Milkman

                        Andres - great to see you! I've also been pretty casual over the last 6 months or so, but I noticed you've been pretty consistent on Strava, which is great! I wish I could sign up for NYC: they got rid of time qualifiers this year, so it wasn't meant to be.

                         

                        On PRs, my problem is with the public announcement of it. You want to quietly believe an illegit PR? Go ahead, nobody cares about that. But when you go on Strava proclaiming this is a lifetime PR on a short course and keep it going in the comments, you deserve all the shaming coming your way. Don't come to the public square if you don't want the public flogging.

                         

                        JT - almost forgot about you! Hope that taper week is going well. You shouldn't be feeling good just yet, but by tomorrow or Friday, hope you're ready to rock and roll 

                        5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:14:57 (5/22)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

                         

                         

                        Mikkey


                        Mmmm Bop

                          Andres - Great to see you back!  I’ll keep an eye on Valencia, but it could be a while until the next update as they aren’t opening registration again until they’re certain they can guarantee it takes place for the 20,000 runners who have already registered..(deferred to this year)

                           

                          JT - Hope you’re ok and following JMacs instructions. 👍

                          5k - 17:53 (4/19)   10k - 37:53 (11/18)   Half - 1:23:18 (4/19)   Full - 2:50:43 (4/19)

                          darkwave


                          Mother of Cats

                             

                             

                            On PRs, my problem is with the public announcement of it. You want to quietly believe an illegit PR? Go ahead, nobody cares about that. But when you go on Strava proclaiming this is a lifetime PR on a short course and keep it going in the comments, you deserve all the shaming coming your way. Don't come to the public square if you don't want the public flogging.

                             

                             

                            I should note that I absolutely agree with part of your point: if you know that the distance that you ran was shorter than 5K, then you should NOT claim it as a 5K PR. It literally was NOT a 5K PR.

                             

                            I'm just not sold on knowing that it was short based on GPS.

                             

                            Where I'm OK with people disagreeing and varying is on all the other nuances - was it on a certified course, what was the net drop, what shoes did you wear, etc.  There are races I don't count as PRs due to net drop that others would.  I have a friend that insists that only times run on the track can be PRs.  I put all of that under different people being different.

                             

                            But..if you didn't run 5K, and you know you didn't run 5K, then it is dishonest to count it as a 5k PR.

                            Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

                             

                            And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

                              Andres: Welcome back! Great to see you posting here again. Once your race schedule for the fall becomes clearer I'll add it to the table.

                               

                              DW, JMac and Mikkey: Feeling pretty good (maybe that's a bad thing?), thanks for asking. I had a bit of a hiccup in my 3 x 1600 workout this morning; on rep #2 my left calf got some weird twinges towards the end. I started the 3rd rep cautiously and it was better by the end. Guess I'll put that in the strange taper week BS file. Otherwise I felt good; HR was under 160 which for me is a good sign at that pace.

                               

                              Race day weather is trending warmer. I did a half-assed sweat run yesterday (dressed much warmer than I normally would but probably not as much as recommended for a sweat run) and will probably do it tomorrow as well. Can't hurt at least.

                               

                              On the whole PR/short course topic: I agree with JMac; a lot of it for the individual in question comes down to arrogance. I'm fine with anyone believing anything they ran is a PR, but when they brag about it, and have a track record (no pun intended) of obnoxious statements, they set themselves up for criticism.

                               

                              DW, sort of on the same topic, I had asked how you measured the course for your half (you mentioned you had and knew when there was 400m left). How did you do that? Just curious.

                              2:52:16 (2018)

                              darkwave


                              Mother of Cats

                                 

                                 

                                DW, sort of on the same topic, I had asked how you measured the course for your half (you mentioned you had and knew when there was 400m left). How did you do that? Just curious.

                                 

                                Sorry I missed before.

                                 

                                I use the Running Ahead mapping function or Mapmyrun.  Figure out where the finish is, and then just map the course in reverse to come up with land marks approximately 400m, 800m, and 1200m from the finish line.

                                 

                                It's obviously not exact, or even close to exact.  Anything from .23 to .27 counts as 400m for this purpose.  It just gives me a way to mentally count track laps down to the finish line, which is really helpful when I'm racing in an area I'm not familiar with.

                                Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

                                 

                                And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.