Forums >Racing>2021 Sub 3:00 Marathon Thread
Mmmm Bop
Anyway, I’m relieved that Cal has assured me that there’ll be no funny business at Boston 2022.
JT - Can you put me down for 2:57:47 goal at London please. ð
5k - 17:53 (4/19) 10k - 37:53 (11/18) Half - 1:23:18 (4/19) Full - 2:50:43 (4/19)
Anyway, I’m relieved that Cal has assured me that there’ll be no funny business at Boston 2022. JT - Can you put me down for 2:57:47 goal at London please. ð
Mikkey - it will be just business, I promise there will be nothing funny about it. Though, hopefully we will have some dinner before the race and a lot of beer after the race - I wonder if you are ok to drink beers after a loss?
JTR - could you please update my goal for CIM to 2:57:45
paces PRs - 5K - 5:48 / 10K - 6:05 / HM - 6:14 / FM - 6:26 per mile
Mikkey - it will be just business, I promise there will be nothing funny about it. Though, hopefully we will have some dinner before the race and a lot of beer after the race - I wonder if you are ok to drink beers after a loss? JTR - could you please update my goal for CIM to 2:57:45
So will you guys keep lowering your goal times till they get down to sub 2 hours? Looks like the performances at London and CIM this fall will be a preliminary competition. Whoever gets the faster time will have extra ammunition for trash talking through the winter. ð
2:52:16 (2018)
I haven’t said what my goal time for the Brighton marathon is yet. I live in Cal’s head rent free. ð
Intl. correspondent
Cal - I hear you on being blunt and assertive. I grew up in Brazil where that is considered extremely rude. No wonder productivity is so low and absolutely nothing works ðĪŠ
Mikkey/Cal - I’m loving the banter. I see Cal is inviting Mikkey for dinner so I reckon he will heed my advice ð
me - here's the first week. A bit of speed sprinkled here and there.
Trashed legs for most of the week, almost threw my back too. We were having some workation in the south of Italy so I guess it was too much moving around and disruption to my nutrition/sleep.
The new coach is prescribing me runs in freedom units so I'll report in freedom units too because I have OCD for round numbers.
PRs: 1500 4:54.1 2019 - 5K 17:53 2023 - 10K 37:55 2023 - HM 1:21:59 2021
Up next: no idea
Tool to generate Strava weekly
flavio: Some nice speedwork in your week. Is your coach located in the US? Glad that you only almost threw the back out; that is really annoying when it happens full blown. For me the usual causes are from my strength routine or if I have to drive a long way.
My week: I somehow injured my calf, seems like during the night Tuesday night. Not sure how that happened but it was very sore on the inside edge of the calf in the morning and thus I took Wednesday off. Ran very easy with no issues at all the previous morning so I don't think it happened from that run, but who knows. I hope getting injured during sleep won't become a regular occurrence...
Flavio: Looks like you got going pretty fast on that interval workout. Nice week!
JT: Was it a bad cramp overnight? Hopefully it’s a one time thing whatever it was.
My week:
40 miles and 5,700 yards swimming
M: 4.4 miles easy (8:37) and 1500 yards swimming
T: 5.2 miles with a 2 mile tempo (6:55, 6:49)
W: 3.1 miles easy (8:56)
T: 5 miles easy (8:35) and 1400 yards swimming
F: 4.2 miles easy (8:07)
S: 6 miles easy (8:21) and 1400 yards swimming
S: 12 mile long run (7:58) and 1400 yards swimming
Solid week for me. I was surprised how good I felt during the long run. I started around a 140 heart rate then worked my way up to 155-160 for the last 3 miles. I didn’t expect the paces I saw, which was nice.
Ha-ha - we all know Mikkey and his love for CIM, but one thing he doesn't know - I was in best shape of my running hobby career when I set my PR there - there is zero doubts in my mind I had that sub 2:50 on any course after having that training cycle - I had HM PR on a pretty tough course during that cycle too. So, it's all some trash talking from his part. But I understand that the only way to "convince" him is to annihilate him on the sam course (is beating by 1-2 seconds considered as "annihilation" ), In any case - until the last couple of years I had no issues having better marathon times than Mikkey every year, until 2017-2018 when I started to having "life event" excuses. This year we hopefully back to normal and we'll see what each of us can do. Plus, all these goals are just preliminary goals in our minds - who knows what happens when we start racing. We might surprise ourselves both, positively and negatively. I remember one of those huge positive surprises - just as ran my first sub 3 (2:59) in LA in March and thought it was a huge achievement for me - but just 8 weeks later I ran Ave of the Giants, pretty challenging course, and finished in 2:55 - that was such a positive surprise! And I basically didn't have time to train much between the two races. So, will see - maybe we surprise ourselves.
flavio - sorry, I didn't understand what you meant in your first paragraph Please keep in mind I am not a native speaker. Btw, I didn't invite Mikkey to a dinner - I just offered him an opportunity to share a place to eat together Nice week, more understandable for me now . I see you have a marathon on the same day as I do - it's a long way till then, so, you and I have enough time to prepare for our goals - though you are definitely in a better shape currently as you just had an HM PR (which is almost the same as my all time HM PR too). I am around 168 lbs now and my weight at the time of PR was 156-158.
JTR - I think I actually had some minor issues with calf spasms at night after which they were actually hurt. Weird... Decent week from you nonetheless, even with your "injury" it still faster than mine
jhudak - solid week
I had a good week too, though I started to feel a fatigue as the week progressed. This Hudson's structure doesn't look particularly tough on paper , but it seems it's quite different from what I used to do before - most of my runs were based on feel - mostly easy running, but Hudson's runs, he calls them "progression runs", have 20-30 minutes at moderate/hard effort almost every other run. Looks like it finally got to me and I feel tired last few days. I think I will take it easier from here on - maybe his structure is not for my AG . Though, I think I still feel better prepared at this point comparing to what I usually did before (easy running, more running mileage wise).
Mo - 8.1 @8:58
Tu - 6.7 @8:37 (4x800 @6:10-6:20, 4x400 @5:30-5:35, 400 jog in between)
We - 10.4 @8:13
Th - 9.2 @9:05
Fr - 8.2 @7:45
Sa - 6.6 @9:28
Su - 15.1 @8:46
===
Total: 64.4 miles
Mother of Cats
Flavio - thank you for converting your weekly mileage into....mileage.... I hope your legs come around and the back stays non-thrown out.
JTReeves !!! on the calf. Judging from the rest of your week, it looks like it righted itself?
JHudak - good week for you as well. I'm wondering if we'll overlap at the pools at some point. I also see on Strava that you checked out the new Lee Highway bridge. Pretty nice, huh?
(for the rest of you, one of our major trails has historically had an at grade crossing of a major road. The crossing had a traffic signal, but was still both dangerous and annoying. So they built a bridge to elevate the trail over the intersection. I'm a big fan.)
Calbears - I think any time you add a new stimulus it can be tiring until you adjust. I take it the Wednesday, Friday, and Sunday runs were the progressions with some quality added?
***
82 miles running, 1500 yards swimming, and 1 hour pool-running
M: upper body weights/core and 8 miles very easy (9:05).T: 11.5 miles, including a track workout of 2x800, 1600, 2x800 in 3:03, 3:02, 6:20, 3:00, 3:01. (recoveries between 2:34-2:46 after the 800s and 5:20 after the 1600). Followed with leg strengthwork and 500 yards recovery swimming.W: 6.5 miles very easy (9:30), streaming yoga, and then 6 miles very easy on treadmill (9:32).Th: 3.5 miles very easy on treadmill (9:37), 50 minutes pool-running, and upperbody weights/core.F: 12.5 miles including a 4 mile tempo in 26:34 (6:41/6:42/6:42/6:29). Followed with leg strengthwork and 500 yards recovery swimming.Sa: 12.5 miles very easy (8:58) plus four hill sprints and drills; followed with streaming yoga.Su: 21.5 miles, split as 7 at 9:05, 7 at 7:46, 7 at 7:07, and then a half mile jog. Followed with 500 yards recovery swimming and 10 minutes pool-running.
We had great weather nearly the whole week. Despite that, my Friday and Sunday workouts were both a bit slower than I would like for the effort. I'll hope that's just fatigue that will pass. I think I was also just a bit aggressive on the middle part of today's long run, which is why my legs conked out at the end.
Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.
And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.
JT - yeah, my coach is in California. I was weary of the time zone difference but he shows promise and also has the word “nerd” in his profile, always a bonus in my book.
CJ Albertson - Fresno running coach
Re: the calf, have you been behaving, are you sure dear wife has no reason to hit your calf with the pasta rolling pin overnight? ð
Jokes apart, this could be one of those things from running too much mileage, who knows, hopefully foam rolling will bring it right.
Jhuda - solid week! How many hours does all that swimming take?
Cal - shedding the weight will certainly help. I was 78kg for my half marathon PR a few weeks ago, lighter than I have been in over 15 years.
I’m now fat again at 82kg but hopefully the weight will come off during marathon training.
I still don’t believe you can’t understand metric. First you were born in a country using the proper measurement system. And second IIRC you’re a software developer?
All software developers can do math in their heads, especially when it’s simple stuff (1 -> 1.6).
Still for the sake of argument, here’s the simplified mental table I use to figure out these paces:
6 min/km - 9:40 min/mile recovery pace
5 min/km - 8 min/mile - easy pace
4:15 min/km - 6:50 min/mi - sub 3 marathon pace, sub 90 min half
4 min/km - 6:30 min/mi - 2h50 marathon, 20 min 5k (5 * 4 = 20) 40 min 10k (10 * 4 = 40)
3:45/km = 6:00 min/mi - my 10k pace 37:30 10k 18:45 5k
3:20/km - 5:20 min/mi (200 seconds * 1.6 = 320 seconds) - My 1500/mile pace.
3:00/km - 4:50 min/mi = 15 min 5k 30 min 10 local elite
Anything under - don’t care to translate, it’s too fast for me to comprehend.
DW - as usual monster week and super fast long run! I have said before probably but super impressed at your ability to run by effort.
DW - We're bound to run into each other sooner or later, either at the pool, on Haines or some local race, I'm sure. I did run over the Lee Highway bridge during my long run yesterday. That is probably the most impressive pedestrian bridge I've ever seen. I really liked that they extended it out which causes the grade to be much less drastic. Also, it appears to be wide enough so a truck could drive over it.
Flavio - It was just over two hours of swimming for the week, spread over four sessions. My theory behind adding in swimming is that I typically try to ramp up mileage too quickly and end up with a minor injury when coming back from a break. By adding in swimming, I'm attempting to keep my training volume high while not getting an overuse injury.
jhudak: Great looking week with the swimming and nice progression in the running. Looks like your fitness is coming back nicely.
Cal: I actually feel better when I see you and DW's and a few other people's easy runs on strava...so many that I follow now seem to run every run too fast (nobody in this thread group). It should not bother me but somehow it can be annoying, especially when you look and see the HR is too high. I just wonder how these people can keep doing it day after day, week after week. Anyway, when I see your easy runs I feel no annoyance, so thank you for that!
DW: Great work last week; this seems like the biggest week I ever saw from you. Strong workouts and an excellent long run.
flavio: Yes, the injury could be explained well by an attack from my wife but fortunately that was not the culprit. Unless I slept so deeply I did not wake up after the attack! I wonder if it was a strong cramp like jhudak and Cal suggested, since I have gotten those in the past that were sometimes so bad they resulted in some sort of pain for a while afterwards, but again, think I would have woken up for that; I'm a very light sleeper. Remains a mystery, but at least now the pain is gone and even when it was painful, it did not prevent me from running.
3 months til Masters
Flavio- Fartlek City. Getting some good speed work in even if it felt like hot trash.
JT- Sleep injuries....not sure how you prevent that.
Hudak- Nice LR. Progressions are my favorite.
CalBears-I love Hudson's plan because I love progressions, but I didn't have enough speed work to strengthen my weaknesses.
DW- 82 miles with cross training on top is impressive.
My Week: 96 and change miles. Not into real marathon training. Got in lots of miles but only 2 long workouts. Legs are holding up.
Mon 11 Easy
Tues 11.4 with 8 striders/6.3 easy double
Wed 2.6 WU/16x400m 80 sec goal (78-82 actual) 200 jog. Got kicked off the track for a meet after 12 so the last 4 were on the road/2 CD
Thurs 13 easy
Fri 7.5/6.5 easy double
Sat Late night 8:30 pm 9 mile run (we got a used outback after being down to 1 car for a few months)
Sun 8 am short turn around. 21 mile progression with a few fast young guys who went 14 and 18 with me. Finished up in the 6:20 range toward the end. 6:52 average over all for the run.
2023 Goals
Marathon Sub 2:37 (CIM) 2:41:18
10k Sub 35:00 (Victory 10k 34:19)
5k Sub 16:00 (Hot Dash 5k in March (16:48), Brian Kraft in May (16:20), Twilight 5000 in July and August (16:20/16:25 Both heat index 102-103F)
Sub 1:16 Half Marathon City of Lakes Half Marathon 1:15:47)
Sub 56:30 in 10 mile (Twin Cities 10 mile, Canceled due to weather, 56:35 as a workout)
2024 Goals
Sub 2:37 Marathon
Sub 1:15 Half
Sub 34 10k
Sub 16 5k
Ash
Flavio – Looks like some well controlled speed sprinkling there, nice going.
jhud – Solid running and swimming progress.
Cal – Impressive speed Tue and in the sneaky Fri tempo. Easier is wise. I’ve been using Hudson as a template but probably adjusted it beyond recognition in practice.
DW – Fair enough to feel some fatigue, big week. Did I see 201 HR?
DPS – Not into real marathon training but 96! Unreal.
Me - A relatively easy week that didn't feel particularly easy.
Next: Ballarat, April 28, Pacing 3:50
Best: 5k 19:46 (Parkrun, 2016), 10k 40:37 (Track, 2022), Half 1:26:41 (2016), Full 3:00:23 (2021)
Nice job Marby. Finally figured out who you are on strava.