2021 Sub 3:00 Marathon Thread (Read 288 times)

Andres1045


    The concern over carbon-plated shoes and not wanting to "taint" your PR made sense a few years ago. It wasn't clear whether they would end up legal and you didn't want to run a good time to later have to question it. After the world athletics came out and blessed them AND every single shoe company started making them, I now think people are crazy who are still searching for non carbon-plated shoes. Why do you even run in rubber soled shoes? Those are an invention that clearly had massive impacts on the times humans are capable of running for long distances. Also, never run a time trial on a track.

    This paragraph kind sums up my reasoning why I hadn't before, and why I'm now kinda over the whole debate. And the fact that all shoe company's are doing it means generally that it's getting harder and harder to find good long distance racing shoes that don't have a carbon plate.

     

    But I can respect those that still refuse to give in. I'm cool with them too.

    Upcoming races: Boston

    darkwave


    Mother of Cats

       

      Um, yeah. Duh. You don't want strava thinking you're slow.

       

      That may be some of it.  But people tell me that they feel like they recover faster after training in them, and that their legs are less beaten up.  That's the general reason given for training in them.  I guess to me that "beating up" of the legs is actually a key part of marathon training, and I don't want to protect my legs too much from that.  My legs need to be able to handle a pounding in order to run a solid 26.2.

       

      And to be fair - my ankles hurt just watching someone do a track workout in Vaporflies; but I'm sure other people's feet hurt when they see me happily finishing up a double digit run in Nike Frees.  We're all individual.

       

      I guess ultimately I come down to "whatever works for you."  But I do suspect some people are running all the time in the carbon-plates high stack shoes because it's fun, not because it's the best choice for their training.

       

      And then... there's the people I've seen walking their dogs in Vaporflies.  I got no answer for that one....

      Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

       

      And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

      darkwave


      Mother of Cats

        I'll take the bait.

         

        The concern over carbon-plated shoes and not wanting to "taint" your PR made sense a few years ago. I

         

        I feel like I've seen some version of the following play out over and over again on social media:

         

        1) "I'll never wear super shoes because I want all my PRs to be real!"

        2) "well, everyone else is wearing them, so I might as well if I want to compete"

        3) Runner starts racing in Vaporflies.  Runner fails to PR or to compete better against his/her peers..

        Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

         

        And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

        CalBears


           Just wear the Nike carbon plated shoes. 2:59 pace will feel like 3:20 pace. They're easily good for 20 minutes.

           

          You mean, the actual Mikkey's result in London 2019 was 3:10, not 2:50? I knew it! I knew it!

           

           Um, yeah. Duh. You don't want strava thinking you're slow.

           

          Not a problem for me - in my age I am more concerned what HE thinks about me, not what strava does (until, of course, if HE is on strava too ).

          paces PRs - 5K - 5:55  /  10K - 6:05  /  HM - 6:14  /  FM - 6:26 per mile

          dpschumacher


          Making a comeback

            Wut!?!

             

            Having that much money to burn breaks my brain.

             

             

             

            And then... there's the people I've seen walking their dogs in Vaporflies.  I got no answer for that one....

             

            New 2020 Goal: Actually run a race, any race, just run a real legit race. **Eye Twitching**

            USATFMN XC 6k Lake Elmo Championship 21:49

             

            2021 Goals for my 2 marathon cycles this year

            Marathon Sub 2:40 2:39:27 Grandma's Marathon 6/19/21

            10k Sub 35:00 in Marathon build

            5k Sub 16:30 in Marathon build /16:34 BK5K Memorial Day 2021

            JMac11


            Taper Czar

              Wut!?!

               

              Having that much money to burn breaks my brain.

               

              Well I think it's that the shoes have outlived their lives and a lot of people use their old running shoes as their "other activities" shoes. Used to do that all the time when I was kid to mow the grass. That's not an issue of money, and if anything shows they're trying to save some money vs. buying other shoes. It's just weird you would choose THAT shoe to walk around in given how goofy they are with their stack height and unstable nature.

               

              Also running easy runs in carbon-plated shoes, totally bizarre. I agree with DW that part of marathon training is beating up your legs, so to save them seems weird. I do run in the ZoomFly for my workouts though that are at LT pace.

              5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:15:28 (3/20)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

               

              Next Race: Whatever COVID-19 will allow me to run 

              JMac11


              Taper Czar

                Speaking of Nike - are people racing in the Next%, or the Next% 2? I'm going to avoid the Alphafly for now.

                5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:15:28 (3/20)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

                 

                Next Race: Whatever COVID-19 will allow me to run 

                CalBears


                  I hope with today's CDC guidance of no need for a mask for vaccinated people, California authorities finally allow races to roll - it's amazing, but we here still do not have any races at all - even with staggered, in waves starts. No races so far and were told there won't be any changes until June 15th. Crazy! That is with the current vaccination percentage of 66% in Cali - which is just measly 4% away from herd immunity threshold. Come on! Let's us race!

                  paces PRs - 5K - 5:55  /  10K - 6:05  /  HM - 6:14  /  FM - 6:26 per mile

                  Andres1045


                    Speaking of Nike - are people racing in the Next%, or the Next% 2? I'm going to avoid the Alphafly for now.

                    I've never worn either of the two. But I just bought the "2" from running warehouse. Their video made it sound like they're essentially identical. So if it's between those two, not sure it matters.

                    Upcoming races: Boston

                    flavio1980


                    Intl. correspondent

                      I feel sorry for people who worry about social networks (Strava included).

                      It’s that never ending need to be accepted.

                       

                      Cal - Damn right, Italy is also on that same stupid boat of not allowing races. Now they will start allowing races but then it's summer.

                      On the topic of vaccines, we're seriously considering a trip to get vaccinated.

                      We both hold 2 citizenships (Brazil/Italy) both of which are cluster fucks. To make matters better we're moving to Portugal. I'm guessing we'll be able to purchase a vaccine by end of year.

                      We can see that the US is swimming in vaccines and playing darts with them at the moment so why not hop over the pond for a quick jab.

                       

                      me - A bit of a bother today in my upper left calf, rolled it, but it was still a 2 out of 10 at the beginning of the run. Thankfully it faded away after one mile.

                      PRs: 5K 17:56.7 (2021) 9.86K 36:40 (2020) HM 1:21:59 (2021)

                      Up next: 3 countries marathon - Oct 10th

                      Tool to generate Strava weekly

                      darkwave


                      Mother of Cats

                         That said. It is a big issue to me that it is a financial issue for many kids.  I can afford 1 pair every 2 years (any only because my daily shoes i get for $60-70 from new balance discount store).  I think that kids not having access to them in HS unless your family is rich is a real concern. I think below the college level they should have restrictions for competition at least on the supershoes.

                         

                        I agree in theory with restrictions for HS kids (to me, HS sports are about inclusion as much as competition), but...how to do that?  How do you define a supershoe?  Plates have been around a LONG time (Mizuno has had a wave plate in many of its shoes forever; Adidas has used a torsion plate for close to a decade in some shoes).  Superbouncy foams aren't new either (Adidas Boost was the first).  And rocker soles have been around about as long as Hoka One One has.    You could define it by stack height as World Athletics does, but you don't have much room to go before you rule out Hokas.

                         

                        I guess you could just put a price range on shoes - i.e. no kid can run in a shoe that costs more than $150 - but that has nuances too.  What about shoes that go on sale?  Is the $150 MSRP?

                        Are HS kids really going to be using Vaporflies for cross country instead of XC spikes?

                         

                        Jmac - regarding Nike shoes - I'm still using the original VF for marathons, and the first edition of the Next% for half-marathons and shorter.  I never tried the Alphafly because based on how they were described, they sound like exactly the wrong shoe for me.    Have not tried the new Next% because it sounds essentially like the previous version.

                        My biggest complaint with the Nike shoes has been the lack of traction.

                         

                        Flavio -just be aware - we may have tons of vaccination doses sitting around now (slight exaggeration) but we're all going crazy because there's no gasoline anywhere (if you live in my area of the US).

                        Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

                         

                        And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

                        darkwave


                        Mother of Cats

                          Also, since I'm here, I'll wish DLS a good race tomorrow.

                          Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

                           

                          And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

                            I got Next % version 1 two weeks ago as a birthday present.

                            I did a 10k tt that ended up about 30 secs or more faster than what I expected in my other shoes.

                            The shoes immediately felt amazing to me. I think I benefitted more than most even as my old ankles felt young again.

                            I had one mate who questioned whether I could count pbs run in this shoe which bummed me a bit.

                            I even private messaged jmac and mikkey for advice.

                            But as stated its the progression of technology and there's no going back now. The cost should come down as they become more mainstream.

                            The Next % 2 are actually a bit cheaper and the only change is upper material where they have gone away from the plastic type upper back to a more material type.

                            50+ PBs -  

                            5k 18.25 Tauranga Parkrun  Sept 20      81.97 % age grade

                            10k TT 37.21 may 2nd 2021 strava run 82.51 % age grade

                            Half marathon  1.23.30 may 21 80.11 % age grade

                            " If you don't use it you lose it,  but if you use it, it wears out.

                            Somewhere in between is about right "      

                             

                            JMac11


                            Taper Czar

                              Thanks guys. I just ordered a pair of the Zoom Fly 3. It looks like the Next Tempo had bad reviews (stack height apparently so high and shoe so narrow that they're super awkward to run in unless you're running MP+), so and older pair of ZF3 should do.

                               

                              Waiting on the Next% 2 to come out with the OG coloring, love the look of it and don't really need them until the fall.

                              5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:15:28 (3/20)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

                               

                              Next Race: Whatever COVID-19 will allow me to run 

                              SteveChCh


                              Hot Weather Complainer

                                Good luck DPS.

                                 

                                I'm using the Endorphin Pros for the race and have used them once in a workout and they feel amazing.  Vapor flies just didn't suit my feet.  I'll use them in training when they are retired from races but would never walk in them - they're just not as stable as my normal training shoes when it comes to walking or running slowly.

                                 

                                No way could I have afforded them in high school.  I was always jealous of the kids with the flashy gear in whatever sport it was.  It's a tricky one, banning a commonly used piece of equipment.  The well off kids would have tons of other advantages too, and you can't ban them all.

                                PB:  Christchurch 2016 1:29.25

                                Recent Races:    Queenstown Half-Marathon (trail) November 21, 2020 1:35.11 Cherry Blossom Half-Marathon, September 13, 2020 1:33:38 Half-Marathon Time Trial May 31, 2020 1:31.51  Auckland Waterfront Half-Marathon 2019 1:30.49 

                                Plan for 2021:  Christchurch Half-Marathon April 11 Went as planned - 1:38, Wellington Marathon June 27 POSTPONED - Probably October 10,  South Island Half-Marathon August 1, Queenstown Half-Marathon November 20