Forums >Racing>2021 Sub 3:00 Marathon Thread
Mother of Cats
No way could I have afforded them in high school. I was always jealous of the kids with the flashy gear in whatever sport it was. It's a tricky one, banning a commonly used piece of equipment. The well off kids would have tons of other advantages too, and you can't ban them all.
One way that gear advantages can be handled is via a claiming race. For example, in a claiming horse race, any horse entered is for sale at a set $. Which means you are not going to enter a horse that is worth more than that amount. Some off road car races do similar.
Of course, wouldn't work for running as we all wear different sizes.
Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.
And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.
Problem Child
Oh god....marathon shoes. I have NO clue what I'm going to even train in. My Hoka Mach 4s need to be replaced after about 200 miles because the sole is foam, not rubber, so I wore through them quickly. The $50 Nike Pegasus I use to buy are sold out or not even made anymore, so now I have to figure out what new shoe I need for marathon training. Last race was teh Nike Zoom Fly Flyknit since I didn't think I needed alpha fly and didn't want to spend the money.
EDIT: Just looked up the ZoomX Vapor Fly. WHY are they in white? I guess I did see people walking around Chicago in the orange Vaporfly shoes, and Air Jordans were worn to high school in the 90s so status symbol. Their definition of green is way off. Looks to be more "teal" in my eyes. The big question for me is now "do I buy them for CIM because the Zoom Flys worked so well?"
Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.
VDOT 53.37
5k18:xx | Marathon 2:55:22
I use them for some workouts and that is where I think the biggest benefit is. They help on race day, but being able to handle the training load (since I tend to run in lower profile shoes) just wouldn't be possible if not using them in some key workouts. My left Achilles and knee are the things that often shut me down, and being able to train higher miles and intensity and not have them break down i think will have more impact than the shoes on race day specifically. I believe they help in races for sure, but using them in training as well (on hard workouts days) is the difference in my targeting sub 2:45 vs sub 2:38. I just wouldn't be able to keep my legs together to do the requisite work. That said. It is a big issue to me that it is a financial issue for many kids. I can afford 1 pair every 2 years (any only because my daily shoes i get for $60-70 from new balance discount store). I think that kids not having access to them in HS unless your family is rich is a real concern. I think below the college level they should have restrictions for competition at least on the supershoes.
I use them for some workouts and that is where I think the biggest benefit is. They help on race day, but being able to handle the training load (since I tend to run in lower profile shoes) just wouldn't be possible if not using them in some key workouts. My left Achilles and knee are the things that often shut me down, and being able to train higher miles and intensity and not have them break down i think will have more impact than the shoes on race day specifically. I believe they help in races for sure, but using them in training as well (on hard workouts days) is the difference in my targeting sub 2:45 vs sub 2:38. I just wouldn't be able to keep my legs together to do the requisite work.
That said. It is a big issue to me that it is a financial issue for many kids. I can afford 1 pair every 2 years (any only because my daily shoes i get for $60-70 from new balance discount store). I think that kids not having access to them in HS unless your family is rich is a real concern. I think below the college level they should have restrictions for competition at least on the supershoes.
Here is where I'm at on the carbon fiber shoe thing.
1.) they're expensive. I have bills to pay so it's a luxury to buy them.
2.) If you ain't "cheatin" you ain't trying. Literally everyone was wearing them and I felt they were the last component I needed to achieve my goal time.
3.) Being able to handle the stress of 60-70 mile weeks is probably MORE important to me. It builds the strength and if everything I'm running in makes it "easier" to go faster I guess I'm missing out on some aspect of training. The stress causing muscle development along with mental toughness.
4.) Placebo effect. If I buy the shoes I'm more committed to training to justify the purchase. Since I trained harder (ideally) I achieve my goal thus proving the shoes work. It's a circular discussion I can't actually find an answer to.
The last time I bought them I'm pretty sure I pulled out of my savings account to buy them and I bought 2 so I'd be able to train in them for race day. I also don't care what someone else thinks of my PRs in the sense of "if you're going to say it's invalid because of the shoes I wore you can. They're available and probably considered cheating because you don't want to pay for them. I think it's cheating you didn't travel across the country to visit family using a covered wagon because that is how people did it before planes were invented."
3 months til Masters
I would just say these models are banned and spell them out...there is maybe 15 shoes, (vaper, rc elite, 5280, alpha, whatever the Adidas is called, victory etc) can't be used. just call them out by name. And yes...kids are absolutely using Vaperfly in XC. My track club buddies who coach at all the local schools send us pics in our group chats of kids running in them. Same now that it is track season. Looking at the meets in the Twin Cities you can see a difference in the private and public schools at meets.
I don't think it will happen, but it is pretty messed up IMO. FWIW I work with homeless and low income families so I personally shell out a fair amount to a local running store who sell these families shoes for the kids who want to run. My Track club also has a running tab that we cover for those families at the schools they teach at who show up in basketball shoes the first day cause it is what the have. Just drives me a bit nuts
I agree in theory with restrictions for HS kids (to me, HS sports are about inclusion as much as competition), but...how to do that? How do you define a supershoe? Plates have been around a LONG time (Mizuno has had a wave plate in many of its shoes forever; Adidas has used a torsion plate for close to a decade in some shoes). Superbouncy foams aren't new either (Adidas Boost was the first). And rocker soles have been around about as long as Hoka One One has. You could define it by stack height as World Athletics does, but you don't have much room to go before you rule out Hokas. I guess you could just put a price range on shoes - i.e. no kid can run in a shoe that costs more than $150 - but that has nuances too. What about shoes that go on sale? Is the $150 MSRP?Are HS kids really going to be using Vaporflies for cross country instead of XC spikes? Jmac - regarding Nike shoes - I'm still using the original VF for marathons, and the first edition of the Next% for half-marathons and shorter. I never tried the Alphafly because based on how they were described, they sound like exactly the wrong shoe for me. Have not tried the new Next% because it sounds essentially like the previous version.My biggest complaint with the Nike shoes has been the lack of traction. Flavio -just be aware - we may have tons of vaccination doses sitting around now (slight exaggeration) but we're all going crazy because there's no gasoline anywhere (if you live in my area of the US).
I agree in theory with restrictions for HS kids (to me, HS sports are about inclusion as much as competition), but...how to do that? How do you define a supershoe? Plates have been around a LONG time (Mizuno has had a wave plate in many of its shoes forever; Adidas has used a torsion plate for close to a decade in some shoes). Superbouncy foams aren't new either (Adidas Boost was the first). And rocker soles have been around about as long as Hoka One One has. You could define it by stack height as World Athletics does, but you don't have much room to go before you rule out Hokas.
I guess you could just put a price range on shoes - i.e. no kid can run in a shoe that costs more than $150 - but that has nuances too. What about shoes that go on sale? Is the $150 MSRP?Are HS kids really going to be using Vaporflies for cross country instead of XC spikes?
Jmac - regarding Nike shoes - I'm still using the original VF for marathons, and the first edition of the Next% for half-marathons and shorter. I never tried the Alphafly because based on how they were described, they sound like exactly the wrong shoe for me. Have not tried the new Next% because it sounds essentially like the previous version.My biggest complaint with the Nike shoes has been the lack of traction.
Flavio -just be aware - we may have tons of vaccination doses sitting around now (slight exaggeration) but we're all going crazy because there's no gasoline anywhere (if you live in my area of the US).
2023 Goals
Marathon Sub 2:37 (CIM) 2:41:18
10k Sub 35:00 (Victory 10k 34:19)
5k Sub 16:00 (Hot Dash 5k in March (16:48), Brian Kraft in May (16:20), Twilight 5000 in July and August (16:20/16:25 Both heat index 102-103F)
Sub 1:16 Half Marathon City of Lakes Half Marathon 1:15:47)
Sub 56:30 in 10 mile (Twin Cities 10 mile, Canceled due to weather, 56:35 as a workout)
2024 Goals
Sub 2:37 Marathon
Sub 1:15 Half
Sub 34 10k
Sub 16 5k
Mmmm Bop
I hope with today's CDC guidance of no need for a mask for vaccinated people, California authorities finally allow races to roll - it's amazing, but we here still do not have any races at all - even with staggered, in waves starts. No races so far and were told there won't be any changes until June 15th. Crazy! That is with the current vaccination percentage of 66% in Cali - which is just measly 4% away from herd immunity threshold. Come on! Let's us race!
Maybe up sticks and move to Texas! I watched the Billy Joe Saunders/Canelo fight last weekend and there were 73k fans at the stadium so I guess they’re just cracking on with it now. It is just endless scaremongering/restrictions from the UK government and my gut feeling is that there’ll be no major races year.
Good luck DPS. 👍
5k - 17:53 (4/19) 10k - 37:53 (11/18) Half - 1:23:18 (4/19) Full - 2:50:43 (4/19)
Hot Weather Complainer
Mikkey - it’s all about fear! It’s been a dream come true for politicians on a certain side of the aisle. I think many places wish they had a leader like Florida does. I definitely wish we do
5km: 18:34 11/23 │ 10km: 39:10 8/23 │ HM: 1:26:48 9/23 │ M: 3:34:49 6/23
2024 Races:
Motorway Half Marathon February 25, 2024 1:29:55
Christchurch Half-Marathon April 21, 2024
Selwyn Marathon June 2, 2024
Dunedin Half Marathon September 15, 2024
*applause*
Thank you.
Mikkey: I thought things were going better in the UK, at least much better than Europe. I sure hope London goes ahead.
There certainly is a big variation in things state to state here. I think it partly comes down to the ambition and commitment of race directors/organizers to go through the extra effort of putting on their event with all the restrictions mandated by local & state. Some are up to it and some can't be bothered and just make the race virtual. And in some cases the government encourages it; this is the case in CT (fortunately!) and was also in New Hampshire where my last race was.
Steve: The Endorphin is a great shoe, I wore it in my last 2 marathons. Though I came out of the last one a bit bitter on it I think I was blaming the shoe for my own lack of fitness. I recently got a pair of Next% but have yet to run in them, probably give it a go next week.
DPS: Good luck in your half!
2:52:16 (2018)
Yep and it’s a shame that you have to dig deeper to get more balanced facts as the MSM here is just a propaganda machine.
JT - Yeah, a big percentage of the UK has already been vaccinated, but Boris has announced that we might have to continue with some lockdown restrictions because there is a new variant called vindaflu. On the plus side he has given us permission to hug are loved ones from Monday...but it has to be done safely! Beam me up Scotty.
dps: Hope your race went well!
JT: I'm signed up for the Fargo Brewing Company 5K on June 17, if you're adding shorter stuff to the list.
S: Rest
M: Rest (unintended, but some stuff came up at the last minute that I had to deal with)
T: 10.8 @ 7:52 w/10 x 1min @ >5K
W: 7.3 @ 8:15
T: 7.1 @ 8:28
F: 9.5 @ 7:25 w/20min @ LT (pace for the LT portion was 4 sec/mile slower than my last 5K TT, so I think I'm due for a new TT)
S: 11.3 @ 7:57 w/10min Steady state
Total: 46
1:18:13....meh....legs were dead 2nd half. Summary with the weekly wrap up tomorrow.
6:35 PR
DPS- running a major HM PR on dead legs is a nice feat. May the recovery go well.
OMR- good news on the improvement in fitness, as evidenced by the LT run.
1:18:13....meh....legs were dead 2nd half. Summary with the weekly wrap up tomorrow. 6:35 PR
I agree - 1:18:13 HM, 6:35 PR - meh...
From now on I also will be marking all my runs on strava @6:35 pace as easy runs, because why not - it's nothing special (and I wanna be accepted into that "strava super easy runs club") - just - meh...
paces PRs - 5K - 5:48 / 10K - 6:05 / HM - 6:14 / FM - 6:26 per mile
Fair
Meh cause I had a 6:26 mile which out me over 1:18 which was just a mental mistake. I got on my heels and didn't lean into it.
I am in really good shape compared to the last decade and I thought I had a low 1:17 or sub 1:17 in me. All my 1/2 marathon PR are with little to no taper in a marathon build. I have never had it as my goal race so breaking my half PR happens almost every time I run. Just depends where in the training cycle it falls. This is long slow up and down hill where my previous PR is on a couse with 3x the elevation change so running on anything flater was going to buy me 4 minutes. It is a bit of like comparing a 10k road race in Denver vs a track race at sea level when comparing the PR so the improvement was 85% just an easier course.
I agree - 1:18:13 HM, 6:35 PR - meh... From now on I also will be marking all my runs on strava @6:35 pace as easy runs, because why not - it's nothing special (and I wanna be accepted into that "strava super easy runs club") - just - meh...
Congrats DPS - even if it's not what you wanted, hard not to be happy with a huge PR and a crazy fast time