2021 Sub 3:00 Marathon Thread (Read 453 times)

CalBears


    Fair

     

    Meh cause I had a 6:26 mile which out me over 1:18 which was just a mental mistake. I got on my heels and didn't lean into it.

     

    I am in really good shape compared to the last decade and I thought I had a low 1:17 or sub 1:17 in me. All my 1/2 marathon PR are with little to no taper in a marathon build. I have never had it as my goal race so breaking my half PR happens almost every time I run. Just depends where in the training cycle it falls.  This is long slow up and down hill where my previous PR is on a couse with 3x the elevation change so running on anything flater was going to buy me 4 minutes. It is a bit of like comparing a 10k road race in Denver vs a track race at sea level when comparing the PR so the improvement was 85% just an easier course.

     

     

    Doesn't matter what it is - it is still 6:45 minutes PR! Huge! And you just said yourself - you had no taper - means, you obviously have a room for good improvement next year. I also always run HM in the middle of marathon training - that's why I have 1:22 HM and 2:48 FM PRs - 2 x HM time + 4-5 minutes (last couple of years I actually have 2 x HM + 2 minutes Smile ). I am just  taking that into account. And that what you should probably do - depends on what distance you more care about. You also might try to have pre-HM week really really easy - I am pretty sure it won't hurt your marathon training a bit, but probably will help with better HM time. Worth experimenting... In any case, 30 seconds PR is huge, 6:45 PR is gigantic! Congrats and enjoy! Even if you are not totally happy with the final result, you will improve as long as you continue training for the next few years - unless you are JMac and constantly dream about retirement from running 

    paces PRs - 5K - 5:48  /  10K - 6:05  /  HM - 6:14  /  FM - 6:26 per mile

    Mikkey


    Mmmm Bop

      DPS - Congrats!  That’s a really impressive time when you look at your huge consistent mileage and speed work!  I’d say you’re on target for a 2:36 marathon in June with a good taper. 👍

      5k - 17:53 (4/19)   10k - 37:53 (11/18)   Half - 1:23:18 (4/19)   Full - 2:50:43 (4/19)

      Andres1045


        That's an awesome result in a big week, DPS. That 6:26 mile shows me that you went big in a race distance you're not super familiar with. My guess is that with a little bit better pacing/familiarity of the distance plus some minor taper, and low 1:17 would have been well within reach.

        Upcoming races: Boston

        Marby


        Ash

          OMR – Great that you are seeing evidence of improvement.


          DPS – Congratulations on the massive PB and great time.

           

          Happy with my week, highlight was the MLR as it was just one of those that felt magic.  Plan said 12 easy and this was definitely on the fast end of that spectrum but was having too much fun not to roll with it.

           

          05/10/2021 To 05/16/2021

          Date Name Distance
          in mi
          Duration Avg Pace
          per mi
          Elevation Gain
          in ft
          05/10/2021 Easy 6.26 00:54:16 08:40 282
          05/11/2021 1,2,3,2,1,2,3min off = 7.66 01:00:33 07:54 289
          05/12/2021 MLR 11.73 01:35:24 08:08 315
          05/13/2021 Easy 4.99 00:44:48 08:59 184
          05/14/2021 Progression to MP 9.37 01:16:32 08:10 262
          05/16/2021 Long 23.38 03:10:15 08:08 1030

          Total distance: 63.40mi

          Next: Ballarat, April 28, Pacing 3:50

          Best: 5k 19:46 (Parkrun, 2016), 10k 40:37 (Track, 2022), Half 1:26:41 (2016), Full 3:00:23 (2021)

          OMR


            dps:  Congrats on the PR and the win.  I’m guessing having a little competition would have helped keep you focused?

            Marby: Thanks, and nice week for you.  I always enjoy those easy runs where the miles just seem to fly by.

            JT: First trail race for you this morning?  Hope it went well!

            flavio80


            Intl. correspondent

              DW - good point a few pages back about how some people are just not wired for the marathon. That’s most likely my case.

              I finish 1500 and 5k races very tired, but muscular soreness, like I just did a big strength workout.

              I think I saw Jmac run a mile almost completely aerobic a while back. We’re all VERY different.

              It’s a good life when we can go back to complain about the usual things hehe.

               

              Also see below, the tool does the conversions. You copy it and paste on the forum's reply box, then you can add your comments if needed (I see you like to do that). Though I have a feeling you have this weekly in a document somewhere and feed it during the week then just copy and paste it here 😁

               

              Cheatershoes - I don’t own them because Altra does not make them and Altras (And Topos) are the only things that fit my duck feet.

              Actually I think my Altra Paradigms 4.5 have some sort of plate in the sole, they don’t feel the same as the others.

               

              DPS - banning the shoes won’t solve it unfortunately. The reality is that some families are well off and their advantages are so immense that the shoes are just the tip of the iceberg.

              I’m not preaching politically here, by the way, just stating a fact I’ve observed.

              A great result at your half and a time much closer to your fitness. I’m certain you will run sub 1h15 in due time.

              You have immense talent and it runs in the family, your dad was a runner too right? ( Or am I remembering it wrong)

              Also re improvements in races, sometimes we plateau and then hit big breakthroughs when we least expect them.

               

              me - I wanted to annoy the maximum amount of people so I changed the weekly tool to display miles AND km 😎🎉

              This marathon training thing is scary. Running 2 hours today was tiring. It's going to be a long process and sub 3 will be a hard fight it seems.

              Weekly for period: From: 10/05/2021 To 16/05/2021

              Date Name mi km Duration Avg/mi Avg/km Elevation Gain
              in m
              11/05 5 miles wu + 12x(30s ON 45s OFF) 7.13 11.48 00:54:41 07:40 04:46 51
              12/05 Good bye Altra Torins 3.5 Knit. Great buddies for many long runs! 6.00 9.66 00:48:36 08:06 05:02 43
              13/05 4 miles tempo 7.01 11.28 00:51:17 07:19 04:33 27
              14/05 My fellow companions to the recent 5k and Half time trial PRs are also being retired. Thanks for the great service! 7.00 11.27 00:57:56 08:17 05:08 50
              15/05 5 miles + 6x 20s strides 5.70 9.17 00:48:32 08:31 05:18 55
              16/05 15 miles last 3 sub 7:30 pace 15.01 24.14 01:58:04 07:52 04:53 72

              Total distance: 77.00km

              PRs: 1500 4:54.1 2019 - 5K 17:53 2023 - 10K 37:55 2023 - HM 1:21:59 2021

              Up next: no idea

              Tool to generate Strava weekly

              CalBears


                Marby - you ran more and faster - I am jealous Smile

                 

                DPS - congrats again!

                 

                OMR - I wanted to respond to your comment for awhile but didn't have a chance

                 

                calbears, yeah, those progression runs can wear on you...maybe reduce the amount of the progression part by half for a while to get used to them?  Just a thought.

                 

                S:  Rest

                M:  10.1 @ 7:51 w/14 x 20sec fartlek

                T:  7.6 @ 7:56

                W:  9.4 @ 7:35 w/5 x 1K Cruise Intervals, 3 x 200m hard

                T:  5.4 @ 8:27

                F:  8.4 @ 7:48

                S:  12.9 @ 8:10

                 

                Total:  53.8

                 

                Almost all your runs above are sub 8 or around 8 mpm - you must be in a great shape as if I run sub 8 workout, I am exhausted if I run sub 8 mpm workout Smile

                 

                flavio - you should probably stop thinking about annoying people and start thinking about upping your mileage Smile Did I understand you correctly that it's a problem to get vaccinated in Italy? Here they start thinking about giving up some gift cards to attract more people to get vaccinated.

                 

                shoes - I never ran in Vaporflys at all - I bought a pair of original ones just before the pandemic - so, never had a chance to try. Really curious if it gives any bonus time for my upcoming marathons.

                 

                My week was decent. Running group decided to have some kind of 5K trial, I had no expectations and was pretty sure I won't break 20 (as I remember much fitter RP just barely made it last year) - so, I was really surprised to see 19:13 at the finish. It's a very good sign considering there is still 20 weeks until Boston.

                 

                Mo - off

                Tu - 5.9 mi with 5K trial at 19:13

                We - 11.22 @8:07

                Th - 6.61 @9:35

                Fr - 9.40 @8:05

                Sa - 6.58 @8:53

                Su - 16.43 @8:07

                ===

                Total: 56.1 mi

                paces PRs - 5K - 5:48  /  10K - 6:05  /  HM - 6:14  /  FM - 6:26 per mile

                darkwave


                Mother of Cats

                   

                   

                  Also see below, the tool does the conversions. You copy it and paste on the forum's reply box, then you can add your comments if needed (I see you like to do that). Though I have a feeling you have this weekly in a document somewhere and feed it during the week then just copy and paste it here 😁

                  You would be correct. Smile  I actually played with the tool, but it actually makes my entries even longer and harder to follow (probably because I tend to split out my warm-ups and cool-downs from workouts, and also tend to mix my stimulus between several activities in a day.  Had I used the tool for this week, my report would be a chart with 18 rows (as opposed to the 6-7 rows that seems common).  Using my template yields a more compact result.

                   

                  My week:

                  60 miles running, 1000 yards swimming, and 3:10 hours pool-running

                  M: 50 minutes pool-running and streaming yoga
                  T: 9 miles very easy (8:56), drills and 2 hill strides, upper body weights/core, and 3.5 miles very easy (8:53)
                  W: 14 miles, including 3x2 miles in 13:16 (6:41/6:35), 12:56 (6:24/6:32) and 12:57 (6:28/6:29). 4:30 recovery between each. Followed with leg strengthwork and 500 yards recovery swimming.
                  Th: 4 miles very easy on treadmill (9:42), 1 hour pool-running, and streaming yoga.
                  F: 9.5 miles very easy (9:02) plus drills and 4 steep hill sprints, upper body weights/core, and 3 miles very easy (8:42)
                  Sa: 17 miles, including 2x5 miles at marathon effort in 34:58 (7:00 pace) and 34:47 (6:57 pace). 1 mile float in 7:49 in between. Followed with injury prevention work, 500 yards recovery swimming, and 20 minutes pool-running.
                  Su: Streaming yoga and 1 hour pool-running.

                   

                  This week was lower mileage because my very easy days fell on Monday and Sunday.

                   

                  ***

                   

                  DPS - have you ever considered dedicating a cycle to a half to see how fast you could run the distance unfettered?

                   

                  Marby - nice week and a big long run on Sunday.   Referring back to last week, you asked about Strava showing my HR hitting 201 at some point?  That was during a run where I forgot my heart rate chest strap.  The wrist-based HR is not good on me, and so I had a run where I clocked a good chunk of time with a supposed heart rate in the 190s and 200s.   Garmin was screaming at me that I was overreaching for the next few days after that one....

                   

                  Flavio - it really is fascinating to me how we all have different strengths and weaknesses.

                   

                  Calbears - I agree that the time trial is a good sign.

                  Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

                   

                  And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

                    DPS: Great job on the half! A PR by that much in the middle of heavy training is something to be proud of. Congrats on the win as well!

                     

                    Marby: It's always nice when things just click.

                     

                    OMR: Strong week; you've been getting in some good workouts. I added your 5k to the table. Thanks about the trail race; not sure it went great but was definitely a learning experience.

                     

                    Flavio: Does not seem like sub 3 should be a big reach for you. A 1:22 half puts you well under that already, just need to get the endurance end of things lined up. Your half is 2 min faster than my best so no excuses!

                     

                    Cal: Nice time trial; 19:13 is very good considering you are just starting out. I think Mikkey ran almost the same time recently; maybe a couple of seconds faster? I'm sure he will clarify the details for you 

                     

                    DW: Another solid week for you. I agree, your weeks in Flavio's table generator would be too complicated 

                     

                    My week: Ended today with a trail race which was my first, and probably my last. It was brutal. I'm used to running on all dirt trails, with minimal rocks in them, but this race was trails that were loaded with rocks, big rocks, and lots of roots. Much of the time you had to hop from rock to rock. It was both physically and mentally draining to have to calibrate every footfall like that. Not surprisingly, I wiped out towards the end; exhaustion catching up and just caught one foot on a rock. Just a bad scrape on one knee fortunately; it could have been much worse if I landed on a rock! Fun group of people and I enjoyed talking with some of them before, during and after the race, but the race itself: not my type of thing. Much, much respect for the folks who race 100 miles or more on that kind of terrain (and at high altitude); I am truly in awe of that kind of ability. I will be happy to watch them on Youtube videos and leave it at that. 

                     

                    Weekly for period: From: 05/10/2021 To 05/16/2021

                    Date Name mi km Duration Avg/mi Avg/km Elevation Gain
                    in ft
                    05/11 Morning Run 10.14 16.31 1:22:58 08:11 5:05 561
                    05/12 Morning Run w/ 5x1 mile 11.69 18.82 1:27:15 07:28 4:38 538
                    05/13 Morning Run 8.29 13.34 1:10:14 08:28 5:16 482
                    05/14 Morning Run 10.16 16.35 1:22:14 08:06 5:02 558
                    05/15 Morning Run 6.21 9.99 55:05 08:52 5:31 482
                    05/16 Soapstone Mountain trail race 15.51 24.96 2:51:50 11:05 6:53 2146

                    Total distance: 62.01 mi

                    2:52:16 (2018)

                    darkwave


                    Mother of Cats

                       

                       

                      My week: Ended today with a trail race which was my first, and probably my last. It was brutal. I'm used to running on all dirt trails, with minimal rocks in them, but this race was trails that were loaded with rocks, big rocks, and lots of roots. Much of the time you had to hop from rock to rock. It was both physically and mentally draining to have to calibrate every footfall like that. Not surprisingly, I wiped out towards the end; exhaustion catching up and just caught one foot on a rock. Just a bad scrape on one knee fortunately; it could have been much worse if I landed on a rock! Fun group of people and I enjoyed talking with some of them before, during and after the race, but the race itself: not my type of thing. Much, much respect for the folks who race 100 miles or more on that kind of terrain (and at high altitude); I am truly in awe of that kind of ability. I will be happy to watch them on Youtube videos and leave it at that. 

                       

                      So basically you just ran a trail race in close to the time it takes you to run a marathon, but at a slower pace on difficult terrain.

                       

                      I'm curious - how do your legs feel as compared to post-marathon?

                       

                      (also, I'm glad you didn't get seriously hurt when you tripped)

                      Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

                       

                      And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

                         

                        So basically you just ran a trail race in close to the time it takes you to run a marathon, but at a slower pace on difficult terrain.

                         

                        I'm curious - how do your legs feel as compared to post-marathon?

                         

                        (also, I'm glad you didn't get seriously hurt when you tripped)

                         

                        Yes, almost exactly the same time as my last marathon; this was 6 seconds faster   Legs feel similar if not worse than post-marathon. I'll have a better read on that tomorrow morning; I usually have a pretty long delay on feeling the bulk of muscle soreness post-race. But preliminary signs are that it will be significant.

                         

                        One not surprising observation of runners at this race, which contrasts I guess to most normal (ie, road) races nowadays: did not see any supershoes, at least the ones I can identify. On this terrain I think they would have been a big disadvantage.

                        2:52:16 (2018)

                        CalBears


                           Yes, almost exactly the same time as my last marathon; this was 6 seconds faster   Legs feel similar if not worse than post-marathon. I'll have a better read on that tomorrow morning; I usually have a pretty long delay on feeling the bulk of muscle soreness post-race. But preliminary signs are that it will be significant.

                           

                          One not surprising observation of runners at this race, which contrasts I guess to most normal (ie, road) races nowadays: did not see any supershoes, at least the ones I can identify. On this terrain I think they would have been a big disadvantage.

                           

                          You should come to California for trail running - our trails are 95% rock free and extremely runnable. It will be much harder for you to find very technical trail than the nice runnable one Smile And yes, your quads and probably quads should hurt pretty good tomorrow and the day after tomorrow - for me, the day after tomorrow is the worst - sometimes it takes me 3-4 days to recover. That's why I chose not to run trails until next Boston in April - it messes with fluidity of my road race training. Unless I win a lottery in December to run Western States 100 - which is really unlikely as we all know Sad

                          paces PRs - 5K - 5:48  /  10K - 6:05  /  HM - 6:14  /  FM - 6:26 per mile

                          Andres1045


                             

                             My week: Ended today with a trail race which was my first, and probably my last. It was brutal. I'm used to running on all dirt trails, with minimal rocks in them, but this race was trails that were loaded with rocks, big rocks, and lots of roots. Much of the time you had to hop from rock to rock. It was both physically and mentally draining to have to calibrate every footfall like that. Not surprisingly, I wiped out towards the end; exhaustion catching up and just caught one foot on a rock. Just a bad scrape on one knee fortunately; it could have been much worse if I landed on a rock! Fun group of people and I enjoyed talking with some of them before, during and after the race, but the race itself: not my type of thing. Much, much respect for the folks who race 100 miles or more on that kind of terrain (and at high altitude); I am truly in awe of that kind of ability. I will be happy to watch them on Youtube videos and leave it at that. 

                            Way to get out there and try something different. I've never actually done a trail race, but this is exactly how I felt on most of trail runs with any kind of technical parts. I'm no good at it. A big part of running for me is being able to kind of shut off mentally and let my mind wander. I know towards the end of races you have to really focus and concentrate to maintain good form and control your breathing, but that's way easier than having to do all of that plus pay attention to every single foot landing. It's a totally different sport, in my opinion. A cool one for sure, but just not for me.

                            Upcoming races: Boston

                            OMR


                               

                              OMR - Almost all your runs above are sub 8 or around 8 mpm - you must be in a great shape as if I run sub 8 workout, I am exhausted if I run sub 8 mpm workout Smile

                               

                              No, I’m probably just running everything too fast.   Looks like you’re working your way back, with the low 19 5K TT.

                               

                              flavio:. Nice week, I think you’ll find that as you continue to push the long runs a bit longer, the shorter ones (like running for 2 hours) feel the same way that running for 1:40 used to feel.

                               

                              Dwave:  Solid week, do you take a very easy day every 6 days?

                               

                              JT:  Thanks, I feel as though things are progressing pretty well right now.  As for the trail race, yeah, the real technical stuff is a very different type of running...one that I’m not good at.  But I do enjoy the experience (and challenge) of being out there from time to time.

                              dpschumacher


                              5 months til Masters

                                Hey all- One kid has pink and and teething so Sunday got away from me.

                                 

                                Marby- Nice run on the MLB the day after the workout.

                                 

                                Flavio-Nice week especially the Long Run.  I agree that the shoe rules won't happen, but it is really frustrating to see money mess with the sport that typically has the lowest barriers to entry.  I know there will be disparities with income, but the difference between a $60 training show and $100 training show is minimal.  The difference between those and a $260 shoe is pretty significant.  It is my Don Quixote dream and will be about as successful as him.

                                 

                                Cal-5k on the track or road?

                                 

                                DW- Wow.  Very good Wed and Saturday.  I have thought about it, but since I'm back to running.  I figure I only have a few more years to max out my Marathon PR, and it is more important to me.  After I think I got my marathon PR as low as it can go, I may loop back.

                                 

                                JT- Trail racing is a real skill.  Those type of races are no joke and the technical skills make such a dramatic change in time.

                                 

                                OMR-Go get that 5k TT.

                                 

                                _____

                                 

                                My week.

                                 

                                Monday  11 easy

                                Tuesday 11/5 easy double

                                 

                                Wednesday 2 mile WU/ 1 mile (2 min jog) 3 mile (4 min jog) 1 mile (2 min jog) 3 mile/ 2 Mile CD

                                5:15 (5:40 5:40 5:35) 5:16 (5:46 5:44 5:36)

                                This work out was hard, but I felt really good.  I felt in control in the 3 mile portions and really thought i could hold just above this pace for the Half.

                                 

                                Thursday 13 easy

                                Friday 9/6 easy double

                                Saturday 3 mile warm up/Half Marathon/5 cool down for 21.3 on the day.  The race was near my hometown in WI.

                                 

                                I have not run this course in about 7 years.  It is on an compact gravel.  I thought the course was super flat, but turns out it was not quite flat.  The first 3 miles I had someone in front of me and then I took over to help share the push.  The other guy dropped off hard shortly there after.  He is runner for another club in the Twin Cities and is a 2:41 marathoner.  He got the 2nd vaxx on Monday and was very sick Tuesday.  Guess it messed with his race.  Anyway with the hill slowly adding up I was keeping it in the 5:45-5:55 range.  After 6 miles, I just couldn't hold pace.  I kept trying to surge during the long down hill parts but I couldn't keep it up.  I averaged around 6 minutes until I hit a 6:22 in mile 12.  I got back to a 5:55 in 13 and then pushed it in.

                                The plan was to start out at 5:50 and try to gradually pick up the pace, and I just couldn't do it.  I really wanted to get around a 2:17 and hopefully well under, but the soft surface, gradual hills, and miles got to me.  I came in confident with the workout but the weeks fell off.  I was pretty sore Sunday.  Not as bad as a marathon day after, but the quads are definitely stiff and will be for a few days.  If i had been able to hold the 6:22 off i would have been able to at least crack 1:18.

                                 

                                Sunday: My daughter with 11 months, has pink eye, and is teething.  I didn't get out until just before 8 pm.  Finished up just over 100 miles for the week.

                                2023 Goals

                                Marathon Sub 2:37 (CIM) 2:41:18

                                10k Sub 35:00 (Victory 10k 34:19)

                                5k Sub 16:00 (Hot Dash 5k in March (16:48), Brian Kraft in May (16:20), Twilight 5000 in July and August (16:20/16:25 Both heat index 102-103F)

                                Sub 1:16 Half Marathon  City of Lakes Half Marathon 1:15:47)

                                Sub 56:30 in 10 mile (Twin Cities 10 mile, Canceled due to weather, 56:35 as a workout)

                                 

                                2024 Goals

                                Sub 2:37 Marathon

                                Sub 1:15 Half

                                Sub 34 10k

                                Sub 16 5k