Forums >Racing>2021 Sub 3:00 Marathon Thread
Intl. correspondent
Cal - yeah, I find 3x20 min easier to find a time slot after my runs.
The one thing I can say about strength training is do not lift heavy unless you have supervision from a professional.
Lifting heavy is excellent to improve explosion and 1500 to 5K time, but it needs to be supervised.
Also do not go to failure unless supervised.
I find it better if I keep the effort at around 70% during the strength training session (Especially because it’s after the run).
I like strength training in that it's sort of a journey, you start at zero then over one or two years you know down one weakness then you move onto the next weakness and on and on and on.
We won't look like Greek gods any time soon (Except Piwi, have you seen his legs? much wow! )
I have no idea how Darkwave does it, she reminds me of those ads for Energizer batteries LOL, it had a cartoon character that would keep running forever and ever.
We’re mostly moving to Portugal for tax reasons, but then my wife found that masters in nutrition, so that too.
The language is really not important, especially because they speak a very different Portuguese in their day to day.
I lead an odd life as I still use Portuguese to speak to my family and wife, but I mostly speak in English during the day for work. And at least here speaking Italian when I get out of the house at restaurants/supermarkets.
Golf chatter - I don't mind, I like when the topic wanders to weird stuff. The Kiwis do take their time to talk about the various Nathan Jones.
Cheptegei - Sorry you didn't have it in you to break that 3000m record. Hit me up if you need any tips to break through.
My week:
A decent week, nice long run today with a cut down at the end.
PRs: 1500 4:54.1 2019 - 5K 17:53 2023 - 10K 37:55 2023 - HM 1:21:59 2021
Up next: some 800m race (or time trials) / Also place in the top 20% in a trail race
Tool to generate Strava weekly
Ash
flavio - Speedy finish on your long run and 600's. Love the km/mi thing in the generator.
I made a flippant comment about strength/cross. I know it's something that could help resilience but I avoid anything that involves lifting legs above the hip though for fear of aggravating a hip impingement (FAI). That rules out a fair bit but there would still be plenty I could do, really should get some expert advice on that.
I enjoy golf but haven't played much post kids and even when I did get out more regularly seemed stuck on a 12 handicap.
Another good week for me with plenty of specific pace stuff.
A pair of Endorphin Pro arrived and got some test runs, I get it now.
The cake is cooked, time to let it cool and put on some icing.
Next: Ballarat, April 28, Pacing 3:50
Best: 5k 19:46 (Parkrun, 2016), 10k 40:37 (Track, 2022), Half 1:26:41 (2016), Full 3:00:23 (2021)
RIP Milkman
No I don’t think you need a raincoat unless it’s actually raining! I was a bit naive regarding the course as I didn’t study the elevation profile in enough detail as I thought Pulaski Bridge at about halfway mark was Queensboro Bridge and wondered what the fuss was about regarding the incline! I briefly stopped to say hello to rovatti at the Bronx thinking that all the hard work was nearly over....but I underestimated 5th Ave at mile 23 as it’s very subtle and you need something left in the tank to deal with that....but running through Central Park at the finish was amazing! 👍
5th Avenue mile is my most hated part of the course. I don't think the Queensboro is that bad as you aren't too tired at that point. But there's something about running an entire mile at a slight uphill that far into the race that is mentally draining. Also, there is no immediate downhill after to regain your energy. You don't get a legit downhill for almost a mile after that. Even though I live here and much of the race is things I've seen over and over, I still think it's the best marathon in terms of the course and energy. There are only a few sections that are dead in terms of people. Boston has similar energy (and in some places higher), but definitely not as much to look at as the vast majority of it is suburban.
Cal - getting into NYC should be easy for you: there is a time qualifier that is 3:23. If you run that this year, you are automatically in. They did away with the time qualifier this year due to 2020 being cancelled and a smaller field size this year, but I'm optimistic it will come back next year. You can even run a half marathon at 1:36 to get in (looking at you Mikkey if you don't want to run a full this year).
Golf - Mikkey, maybe we should play Bethpage Black the next day. Nothing like walking 18 on a super demanding course after running a marathon the previous day
5K: 16:37 (11/20) | 10K: 34:49 (10/19) | HM: 1:14:57 (5/22) | FM: 2:36:31 (12/19)
flavio: Yeah, I think you were confusing me with seattlemax, who ran 100mpw much more routinely. Nice week, with a solid progression run to close it out.
mikkey: Once upon a time, I may have given you a run for your money (regarding golf, not running). A long time ago I had gotten my handicap down to 5. This past week, I played my first round of golf in about 13 years...now my handicap is about 5/hole, hahaha. Looking forward to getting back into it some, however, and seeing if I can get closer to 10.
JT: Glad to see you are recovering from the trail race.
Marby: Also a good week, enjoy the cooling of the cake.
S: 5.1 @ 8:54 on the trail
M: 10 @ 7:45 w/3 x 5min tempo intervals
T: 7.4 @ 8:10
W: Rest...uh, I mean golfing...uh, I mean cross-training
T: 7.5 @ 8:06
F: 10 @ 8:06
S: 8.3 with a 5K time trial.
Total: 43.2. On Saturday, I decided to do a 5K time trial rather than a long run. It was a spontaneous decision, after I had started running. My legs felt a little heavy, but the weather was good; not much wind, cloudy, and the humidity from the past few days was gone. Wound up running 19:54, which is a 55-second improvement over my last time trial. Pleased with the progress, but still a lot of work to do.
flavio - nice week, but still needs a mid week MLR to become a legit sub 3 training week
Marby - your week with MLR in it is definitely a legit sub 3 week - good pace on LR.
JMac - if 3:23 is a qualifying time for NYC, then millions of people can qualify and it's probably a matter of seconds until the registration closes?
OMR - great 5K TT time - especially considering your heavy legs, a decision to run it on a whim and your age
Golf - next time - no complaining about trail running - at least trail running has something to do with running, not like golf, which arguably even not a sport.
My week was ok:
Mo - off
Tu - 7 @8:05 (track - 1x1mile, 2x800, 4x400 - 400 jog)
We - off
Th - 11:34 @9:06
Fr - 11.35 @8:38
Sa - 11.45 @9:01
Su - 18.18 @8:20
===
Total: 59.3 miles
paces PRs - 5K - 5:48 / 10K - 6:05 / HM - 6:14 / FM - 6:26 per mile
Cal: I remember you doing those runs up and down Mt. Diablo; if I ever get out your way I'd like to run that with you, assuming the trail is nice and flat and not loaded with boulders! I still love trail running, just on nice dirt trails. I'm too much of a wuss to handle that rocky stuff.
Flavio: Mileage creeping up, and a great long run in there. I'm impressed with the multilingualism! English is all my simple mind can handle. My wife is Romanian and I tried to learn that before our son was born, but didn't get very far. I can count to 10 and swear but that's about it.
Marby: I like the cake analogy; finally something new to replace "the hay is in the barn". That was a great long run by the way.
OMR: Nice work on the 5k TT! Even more impressive you did it spontaneously and on the road. I bet you'd be low 19's for a planned TT on the track.
My week: Just easy running to recover from the trail race. I thought about trying a workout Friday but just had no motivation so kept it easy. This week I need to test out the Next% and if all is well I'll wear it for the 10 mile race on Sunday. Looking forward to that as I will get to meet the legendary Darkwave in person!
2:52:16 (2018)
Mother of Cats
I wonder if Jmac and Mikkey shouldn't have some sort of combined competition - run NYC the first day, and convert marathon performance to an age grade #; second day play Golf. Of course, I have no idea how you would combine the scores...
Flavio- my cross training is honestly not as impressive as it comes across in the training logs. I take a yoga class twice a week. I do upper body lifting and core twice a week. I sub some pool-running for land running. And then I do some leg strengthwork, followed by a short 10 minute swim, after my hard days. It just looks like a lot since it's so many different things.
Interesting comment on the Portuguese. If I understand you correctly, the Portuguese spoken in Brazil is very different from that spoken in Portugal?
Also - congrats on breaking through the 2 hour barrier in your long run!
Marby- I'm pretty sure the first rule of cross training is: don't make anything worse! And...congratulations on entering the taper. That is an impressive long run.
OMR - that time trial does indicate that things are moving in the right direction - especially with the mileage the day before. Good signs!
Calbears - is your back feeling better?
****
83 miles running, 1500 yards swimming, and 80 minutes pool-running
M: 8 miles very easy (9:02), drills and four hill strides, and upper body weights/core.T: 12.5 miles, including a track workout of 2000, 1200, 2x800 in 7:49, 4:33, 3:01, 2:59. 4:53 recovery after the 2000, 2:54 recovery after the 1200, and 3:06 between the 800s (track traffic). Followed with leg strengthwork and 500 yards recovery swimming.W: 6.5 miles very easy on treadmill (9:36), streaming yoga, and then 6 miles very easy outside (8:49) plus drills and two strides..Th: 3.5 miles very easy on treadmill (9:39), 1 hour pool-running, and upper body weights/core.F: 12.5 miles, including a 4 mile tempo in 25:52 (6:24/6:33/6:31/6:25). Followed with leg strengthwork and 500 yards recovery swimming.Sa: 12.5 miles very easy (9:14), plus drills and 4 hill sprints, and streaming yoga.Su: 21.5 miles, split as first 7 miles averaging 9:14, next 7 miles averaging 8:00, next 7 miles averaging 7:10, and then a half mile jog. Followed with 500 yards recovery swimming and 20 minutes pool-running.
Taper time for Grandma's. It's finally started to heat up in the DC area (it was 82 degrees with a dewpoint of 67 when I finished my long run). This makes me very happy, as I was concerned that I'd be training in unseasonably cool weather and miss out on heat acclimation, and then get hit with a warm day for Grandma's.
My legs felt much better this week than even two weeks ago, so the iron supplements must be doing their thing.
Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.
And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.
Cal - that's for your age group. For me, it's 253. It may go down a bit with faster times lately, but my point was you and Mikkey will have no trouble qualifying via time.
Also crazy you've never been to NYC! That alone is worth running it. The place can get you down when you live here, but you have to visit at some point in your life.
DW - love the idea. Recovery the next day will be crucial. Can't imagine how hard it is to play golf well the day after a marathon, but I would love to battle it out with Mikkey.
On Saturday, I decided to do a 5K time trial ...Wound up running 19:54,
very nice.
Hi all again,since the end of march I've lurked but not really anything to contribute,the PF got replaced by some weird calf/shin thing that made running impossible at times,really reduced my mileage to help it,physio thinks I had so much scar tissue from running with a bad achilles for 3 years but it seems to be better the last couple of weeks.I managed a 5k race at the end of April and got 18:29,I have always wanted to do Windermere marathon so did it yesterday,despite the last 7 weeks average 20mw.I basically treated it as a long run with company and I loved it,scenic course around a lake,plenty of ups and downs and somehow it was a near perfect even split,1:48:30 v 1:48:29 gave me a 3:36:59,so quite a bit from where I want to be but no way was it a full effort,got my ultra in 2 weeks then get a good plan for an autumn attempt at sub 3.
5k 17:35,10k 36:43,10m 61:55,HM 1:24:03,Full 3:07:39
I forgot to add the weather was pretty bad,lots of rain,wind and worst of all hailstones but still very enjoyable.
Cal-I got in to NYC on a 1:28 half,I think there was a limited amount though so you have to be quick on the conputer the day entries open.
3 months til Masters
Flavio-Lots of quality running in this week. Nice job.
Marby- really solid end of the week strong Fri and Sat.
OMR- Keep chipping away at the TT. Impressed you were able to get it done on a whim. TT are so hard for me i really need to psych myself up.
Cal- What were the paces on those intervals?
JT- same deal for me on recovery week. Just dead legs and soreness all week.
Dw- Crushed Sunday. 21 and then going to cross train in a week with 2 workouts? Oof.
My week: Lots of just getting through the week. The Half combined with mileage just crushed me.
MON:9 miles at 7:58 and that was a struggle.
Tues: 11.2@7:50 and it all hurt/4.8@7:42 still felt stiff
Wed: 4x2 mile @5:20 w/ 4 min jog. Made it 5:24 5:34/5:37 5:57 and then I gave up. Endurance was there but the legs just would not turn over. Just jogged the rest to get in miles at went home. 14.3 on the day.
Thur: 14@7:38 felt a little better
Fri:9@7:37 6@7:37 legs finally felt normal but this was day 1 of actual recovery.
Sat:9 @7:46
Sunday: 23.2, first 10 easy then started to pick up. Could have got down 6:20s legs felt good, but it was hot and humid. My training partner did the last 16 with me and was feeling bad so we only went to 6:50 give or take the last 12. Ready to back to normal running.
100.6 on the week.
2023 Goals
Marathon Sub 2:37 (CIM) 2:41:18
10k Sub 35:00 (Victory 10k 34:19)
5k Sub 16:00 (Hot Dash 5k in March (16:48), Brian Kraft in May (16:20), Twilight 5000 in July and August (16:20/16:25 Both heat index 102-103F)
Sub 1:16 Half Marathon City of Lakes Half Marathon 1:15:47)
Sub 56:30 in 10 mile (Twin Cities 10 mile, Canceled due to weather, 56:35 as a workout)
2024 Goals
Sub 2:37 Marathon
Sub 1:15 Half
Sub 34 10k
Sub 16 5k
Problem Child
JMac HOW can NYC get you down? The city never sleeps and has so much to offer. I'd never expect to be down in a place like that.
https://www.nyrr.org/tcsnycmarathon/runners/marathon-time-qualifiers
Yup....still not going to make it into NYC Marathon unless they have a lottery, or I wait until I retire. Probably not even then.
My week didn't exist. I had zero ambition, or opportunity to run. I'm also now pacing at Western States which will be perfect entering CIM training. 5k race coming up and I'm aiming for a 19:25 or faster. It will be at sea level but I'll use it for CIM training. Life with two kids is hard.
Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.
VDOT 53.37
5k18:xx | Marathon 2:55:22
JTR - decent week from you - yeah, I know how fun it is to get back to a regular running after experiencing those multi-days quad pain as a result of downhill running . But again - it's all pretty curable - just run that stuff once per two weeks and you will not have any issues with quads. I know - every time I started training for yearly 100K WSE 100 qualifying race, I experienced that - every time - takes couple of months to make it non-existent - but it's possible, even at my age . And yes, any time you are inside SF Bay Area - let me know, we will run - our trails absolutely non-technical, flat and even - hard (due to elevation ascent/descent) but pleasure to run.
DW - my goodness - 83 miles plus cross-training? how you do that, you must be a very organized person Yes, my back is better - I guess mostly to the fact I am not pushing much on my regulars runs anymore.
JMac - when do you think they open registration for 2022 marathon? Mikkey - are you going to register for 2022? Or is it too much US travel for you in 2022? And totally do not miss not being in New York - I spent a lot of time in Moscow, Russia though and after many years in US I think Moscow is a better version of New York But my wife and my teenage daughter probably would love to visit. They were in Washington, DC couple of years ago for a few days to get travel visas and they were very impressed - by museums, wide roads, etc - they eagerly want to get back to spend more time there.
rovatti - Hi! See you in NYC in 2022 maybe?
Ian5 - thanks for the info - will see what years results NYC marathon will accept for 2022 race - of course, I think I will be able to run qualifying time this year, but who knows. Ha-ha - you ran 18:25 5K - it's almost my 5K PR (18:23?) - got me to my FM PR of 2:48 though, but I ran 90mpw in that cycle - so, add some mileage and you are golden for sub 2:50
DPS - 100 miles week... Yeah, I used to run those mileages too - seems like a long time ago (last year seems like a eternity...). Eagerly awaiting your race in June . Didn't think anybody wants to know my Tuesday's track splits, but if you insist - 5:55 for 1 mile, 5:48/5:51 for 800s, 5:36-5:45 for 4 400s. Also, some time ago you asked me where did I run my 5K TT - it was on a road.
RP - curious why you chose 19:25 as a goal? Are you in a better shape than when you set your current 5K PR?
Anybody runs Boston in October in addition to me and Andres?
cal: Funny about the age thing, but actually that time trial is a better age graded performance than my 5K PR. Nice week for you...I see you're back to running the consecutive double-digit easy runs.
JT: Thanks, low 19s may be a bit of a stretch for me at this point, but there's definitely room for improvement. That's a solid 5-day week for you. Curious to see how you're feeling in a few days for that 10-miler.
Dwave: Congrats on entering the taper, I think you've had a really solid cycle, so I hope Grandma provides a nice day for you.
rovatti: Thanks, and Hi! Any running happening for you these days?
Ian: Congrats on the 5K time and marathon completion, hope the achilles continues to behave.
dps: Yep, just chipping away. That's a crazy week! We were on the other side of the front this weekend, so it was nice and cool here.
My wife and I have actually never been to NYC yet either, but we may be heading there in July. A place may have opened up for us, in the Flatbush area (free place to stay in exchange for taking care of a couple of pets and watering plants).