2021 Sub 3:00 Marathon Thread (Read 312 times)

darkwave


Mother of Cats

    30 hours of Zoom sounds absolutely awful.    I try to be picky about which calls I go on video for - video is so much more draining than the phone.

     

    Mikkey - that is an amazing and impressive cake!

     

    Ian - good luck with the PF.

     

    JTReeves  I agree with your thoughts that marathon training might help with that 2 mile TT - doing long hard runs just puts the shorter races into a different perspective.  Every time things get tough in a mile race, I just remember that nobody who has ever run a marathon is allowed to drop out of a mile Smile

     

    OMR - very interesting that the elliptical hills are benefiting.

     

    Marby- congrats on being able to race, and also the improvement!

     

    ***

     

    65 miles, 1000 yards swimming, and 1:40 hours of pool-running
    M: 8 miles very easy on treadmill (9:07); upper body weights/core; 4 miles very easy outside (8:47) plus drills and 2 hill strides
    T: 12.5 miles including a treadmill workout of 7x1K with 75 second jog plus 6x 45 seconds hard with 75 second jog. Splits for the 1K repeats were supposedly 3:51, 3:52, 3:53, 3:52, 3:53, 4:00, 3:53 (I suspect I lost signal on the slow split. I also think these all might have been slightly slower than reported). Followed with leg strengthwork and 500 yards recovery swimming.
    W: 50 minutes pool-running and streaming yoga.
    Th: 8 miles easy outside (9:14) plus drills and strides, then upper body weights/core and 4 miles easy on the treadmill (8:47)
    F: 16.5 miles, including a workout of 2x5 miles at marathon effort with 1 mile float in between. Paces were 7:05 for the first 5 miles and 7:00 for the second 5 miles. 1 mile float in between in 7:56. Followed with 500 yards recovery swimming. .
    Sa: 50 minutes pool-running and streaming yoga.
    Su: 10.5 miles very easy outside (9:19), upper body weights/core, and then 1.5 miles very easy on treadmill (8:57) to check the Runn sensor (I think I've figured it out).

     

    Had to deviate from my preferred locations for workouts this week. On Tuesday I headed to the track, but it was ever so slightly iced. Other people were running on it, but I decided not to risk it. So it was the treadmill for me. I suspect the reported paces on Tuesday slightly overestimated my true pace (still working on getting my Runn sensor to work correctly).

     

    I would normally have done Friday's long run on a weekend, and on fast and flat Hains Point in DC. But due to everything going on in the DC area, I decided to move the long run to Friday to make sure it got done in case the world ended this weekend. I also did the workout back and forth on the W&OD trail between Columbia Pike and Falls Church - that route had the benefit of not having any street crossings. However, the W&OD is not flat (long steady climb or descent, depending on the direction). And it has several annoying underpasses that throw my Garmin off. But it was the best choice available, so I went with it.

     

    It's a petite violin type of whine but my running routes are getting really limited. Hains Point is closed until at least Thursday due to inauguration security. And I'm just not comfortable going to DC to run right now. My concerns are less about physical risk and more about something (anything) happening while I am on the DC side of the Potomac River and then having trouble getting home to Northern Virginia due to emergency road/bridge closures. Better to stay on my side of the river for now.

    Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

     

    And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

    Running Problem


    Problem Child

      dwave I live under such a large rock you mentioning the inaguration is shocking to me. I thought it would be virtual (not joking) or just held inside the white house "due to covid 19" and the elected officials and everyone else who doesn't live together not legally allowed to be within social distance guidelines. I was wondering why you'd do the 16.5 on a Friday. Thought you'd signed up for an ultra or something. One of those flat land ones in a flyover state.

       

      50 miles for me this week. all easy with a 13.5 mile long run and Sunday off. I made myself too busy for a Sunday run after a buddy kinda irritated me on Saturday's long run. Pretty much I think a race could happen locally and he s ays we need insurance and liability and no one can get it. I think it's more to do with the city shutting down as much as possible for as long as possible no one wants to try anything until live is back to 2020BC normal.

       

      Oh yeah....I picked uo 35 pounds of shotgun shells and steel bullets off public land because I hate trail runners blaming target shooters for everything and wanting to close public lands to them, and I'm tired of target shooters making a mess. I dragged a small vehicle "shot to shit" and left in the desert to a perfect spot to restrict access to probably 75% of the people who come up here and trash the place. Still accessible to someone with a higher clearance 4wd vehicle, and foot traffic. Keep public lands open to the public and your mother doesn't live her so clean up your mess. The 35 pounds was probably 1/3 of the area and I spent 2 hours doing it just because I wanted to keep an area clean. Imagine if everyone felt the same way. We could have nice things. I also DESPISE people who dump stuff in the desert because it compounds the problem.

      Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.

      VDOT 51

      5k19:35 | Marathon 2:59:10

      darkwave


      Mother of Cats

        dwave I live under such a large rock you mentioning the inaguration is shocking to me. I thought it would be virtual (not joking) or just held inside the white house "due to covid 19" and the elected officials and everyone else who doesn't live together not legally allowed to be within social distance guidelines.

         

        They're having it in the traditional location.  Usually areas closer to the Capitol are limited to those with tickets, while others can gather along the mall or the parade route.  This time, they are severely limiting who gets tickets, and have also closed off anywhere with a "sight line" to the Capitol.  No parade this year, I think.   Many of the traditional performances will be online.

         

        DC always gets shut down to some extent for the Inauguration (security for the first Obama inauguration was particularly strict).  We also get shut down somewhat for the 4th of July, for the State of the Union speech, and for meetings of the IMF/World Bank (a popular protest trigger).  But this is really beyond anything we've experienced before.  Much more severe than even after 9/11.

         

        Here's the most current official map of where you can't go. A massive chunk of the city is just no go.  Much of our public transportation is shut down also.    Life just really sucks if you live in that restricted zone.  (fortunately, I now live on the western side of that map, outside of the restricted area, so I can move relatively freely)

        Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

         

        And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

        Running Problem


        Problem Child

           

          They're having it in the traditional location.  Usually areas closer to the Capitol are limited to those with tickets, while others can gather along the mall or the parade route.  This time, they are severely limiting who gets tickets, and have also closed off anywhere with a "sight line" to the Capitol.  No parade this year, I think.   Many of the traditional performances will be online.

           

          DC always gets shut down to some extent for the Inauguration (security for the first Obama inauguration was particularly strict).  We also get shut down somewhat for the 4th of July, for the State of the Union speech, and for meetings of the IMF/World Bank (a popular protest trigger).  But this is really beyond anything we've experienced before.  Much more severe than even after 9/11.

           

          Here's the most current official map of where you can't go. A massive chunk of the city is just no go.  Much of our public transportation is shut down also.    Life just really sucks if you live in that restricted zone.  (fortunately, I now live on the western side of that map, outside of the restricted area, so I can move relatively freely)

           

          I tried to get driving directions there about 10 days ago. Apple/google maps told me it couldn’t find a route.

          Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.

          VDOT 51

          5k19:35 | Marathon 2:59:10

          Ian5


            Darkwave-I'm impressed with the blog,I just presumed pool running was something people did when they were injured.

            RunningProblem-Well done on the big shell pick up,everything helps.Not sure if you have seen this but a long standing trail record got broken here recently and on the way Damian Hall and his team helped pick bags of litter of the trail as he was breaking the record

            https://www.inov-8.com/blog/damian-hall-pennine-way-record/

            5k 17:35,10k 36:43,10m 61:55,HM 1:24:03,Full 3:07:39

            Running Problem


            Problem Child

              Ian that's awesome. John Kelly seems like a very impressive athlete. I really do wish those guys would document their thoughts and struggles a lot more or end up on an ESPN documentary as if they were Michael Jordan. For some reason I really like getting into the mindsets of professional athletes from various sports.

              Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.

              VDOT 51

              5k19:35 | Marathon 2:59:10

              darkwave


              Mother of Cats

                Darkwave-I'm impressed with the blog,I just presumed pool running was something people did when they were injured.

                RunningProblem-Well done on the big shell pick up,everything helps.Not sure if you have seen this but a long standing trail record got broken here recently and on the way Damian Hall and his team helped pick bags of litter of the trail as he was breaking the record

                https://www.inov-8.com/blog/damian-hall-pennine-way-record/

                 

                I think you can either do pool-running voluntarily, or involuntarily.  I prefer the first option.

                 

                RP - I meant to give you a shoutout for the trash pick-up too.  Go you!

                Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

                 

                And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

                OMR


                  Marby:  Congrats on beating the goal, 30 seconds in 5 weeks is good progress.

                  Dwave:  A little artificially fast or not, nice Fluffy repeats.  Bummer on limited availability of running routes; hopefully that will begin to settle down soon.  Just out of curiosity, how many total hours of training was your last week?

                  RP:  That's a lot of shells.

                  Ian5


                    RP-While I was injured I had plenty of spare time so watched pretty much every running documentary on youtube,this is an amazing film of John if you have time to spare at some point.

                    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uV05PwEYj-E&pbjreload=101

                    5k 17:35,10k 36:43,10m 61:55,HM 1:24:03,Full 3:07:39

                    Running Problem


                    Problem Child

                      RP-While I was injured I had plenty of spare time so watched pretty much every running documentary on youtube,this is an amazing film of John if you have time to spare at some point.

                      https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uV05PwEYj-E&pbjreload=101

                       

                      THANKS!

                      Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.

                      VDOT 51

                      5k19:35 | Marathon 2:59:10

                      laserjock


                        Hi All,

                         

                        Bio:  Male, 45yo.  Ran in high school, but mostly short distance/jumps.  Never gained weight, but got pretty out of shape in grad school.  Started doing a bit of biking and then a couch to 5k program (21:31) at age ~33.  Currently living in Albuquerque, NM where I get to enjoy sleeping and running at high altitude (house @ 5740ft above sea-level) and racing at low altitude.  I have gotten a lot faster after moving here 5.5 years ago since we don't have winter here (though the locals think we do) and there are a lot of hills.  My PR in the half is 1:27 (2/2020), but I was still coming back from an abdominal injury.

                         

                        I'm not sure I'll get under 3:00 this year, but I did try my first marathon on New Year's Day.  I had been planning for the Phoenix/Mesa Marathon and had to move up the race day when it was cancelled.  It didn't go well.  I was 1:28 at the halfway point and 2:20 at mile 20, but then everything (and I mean everything) started cramping at mile 23.  Both calves, both quads, hamstrings.  Everything.  I finished, but I had to walk/waddle the last 3 miles.  Finished in 3:24.

                         

                        Does anyone here have a suggestion on fixing this?  I'm guessing electrolytes, but I just don't have experience with this distance.

                        CommanderKeen


                        Aspiring Hobby Jogger

                          Mikkey - Happy belated birthday.


                          DWave - Good week.


                          Laser - Welcome. Cramps and crashing at mile 23 like that seem like a classic case of going out too fast, possibly to likely combined with low electrolyte levels. With a 1:27 HM PR you were only ~1 minute behind that at the half point in a full marathon less than a year later. Without knowing any more race results that are closer in time to that marathon, you likely would have been better going through the half in ~1:33-34.


                          I'm liking where my running is at right about now. I don't think I'll up my mileage beyond what I'm at now, just focus on keeping up this level and hitting some good workouts. I've even noticed that since I've upped my mileage again that my HR for pace has been dropping steadily, which is nice to see.
                          I am hopping in to a training group based out of a LRS. I figure it'll be good to get a bit of training with people, plus I can coordinate training stuff with the coaches. First workout is tonight, we'll see how that goes.

                           

                          Weekly for period: From: 01/11/2021 To 01/17/2021

                          Date Name Distance
                          in mi
                          Duration Avg Pace
                          per mi
                          Elevation Gain
                          in ft
                          01/11/2021 Ronnestads! 3x (13x :30 hard, :15 easy), +1 random uphill interval 11.75 01:26:38 07:22 322
                          01/12/2021 26 ducks 10.10 01:25:52 08:30 367
                          01/13/2021 3 deer (3 strides) 10.05 01:26:18 08:35 525
                          01/14/2021 2x (4x 1k CP w/ 1 min recovery) 11.05 01:23:18 07:32 282
                          01/15/2021 8 geese, 5 deer (5 strides), & 3 rabbits 9.05 01:17:04 08:31 374
                          01/16/2021 4 hawks & 3 owls 17.60 02:29:20 08:29 827
                          01/17/2021 1 owl 2.50 00:21:18 08:31 98

                           

                          Total distance: 72.12mi

                          5k: 18:24 5/21 (solo track TT) │ 10k: 38:56 4/18 │ HM: 1:24:16 11/19 │ M: 3:04:13 11/18

                           

                          Upcoming Races:

                           

                          10/2 - Wurst Race Half

                          10/17 - Hot Chocolate 15k (pacing)

                          12/5 - California International Marathon

                          laserjock


                            It's hard to say.  I've had a lot of issues with cramping before, but never to that level.  I do sweat a lot.  As far as going too fast.  It's possible, but from my training I estimate that I was in 1:24 shape for just the half.


                            Laura

                              Finally out of my coma from the weekend of all the zooming and life. Completed the USATF Coaching course, totally worth it but JFC that was draining living on zoom for a few days. The test will feel like a breeze after all of that.

                               

                              My Week last week:

                              Monday: URD, woke up and my back was wrecked, super sore and tight. Knew running wasn't going to help so just did some stretching and rolling.

                              Tuesday: 1 hour at PT working on my ankle/lots of single leg work, it was pretty heavy so skipped my run after.

                              Wednesday: 8 miles with 2.5 @ 6:55ish, 4 x 400 (6:10ish), 4 x 200 (5:50ish)

                              Thursday: AM: 2.4 @ 8:43 just to start the day with active recovery PM: 5 @ 8:30 in the dark outside

                              Friday: 20 min strength in AM, 4ish @ 8:45 + strides in afternoon

                              Saturday: 5k TT my only goal was sub-20.  Hit 19:58, was 30ish and 15mph winds. Thankfully I had a friend run with me, he pulled a little ahead in the middle but got him to pull back a tiny the last mile or so which helped me regain contact and push a bit more, had a really fast kick on last lap so definitely could have done better. Considering I have only been running again for 8 weeks (2 of which were walk/run) after 6 weeks off from ankle I'm happy. Will test again in a few weeks and see the improvement. 2nd workout of Saturday was the heart rate intervals from watching the Bills game.

                              Sunday: Zero Dark Thirty Hilly Windy Snowy miles with a friend, 14.4 at 8:35

                              Totals: 39.9 miles run, 6.1 miles bike, 20min strength, 1 x Office PT Strength Session

                               

                              Mikkey - hope you had a great birthday!!!! That cake was AMAZING!

                               

                              Ian - Glad the PF seems to be staying at bay, fingers crossed stays that way and can build more but lookin good!

                               

                              OMR - Nice week including the elliptical, are you thinking more of the elliptical being an addition into your marathon training or replacing some of the runs/run workouts (case can be made for either which is why I ask/curious!)

                               

                              JT: Sorry about the TT but a positive you at least attempted and I would agree that might be beneficial to try again when in more top endurance phase. That is still a highly aerobic distance and knowing that you will still have quality sessions and turnover in marathon training, the speed doesn't just disappear.

                               

                              Marby: Awesome improvement on the park run, if that was 5 weeks then it's just think about what you could do in another few weeks after adding in some more QS like you said - all good things in the right direction!

                               

                              DW: Petite violin or not, still understandable frustration on being limited and having to even worry/think about some of those things. A great week of running and consistent LR workout on Friday - still hitting times even with the rolling terrain and not on top choice for location.

                               

                              RP: That's a crap-ton of shells, good on you for going out there and doing that but yeah frustrating none the less that it needed to be done.

                               

                              Laser-  Welcome! That is a great first marathon time! What was your fueling like for the race? What were you taking in, and how often?

                               

                              CK - great week of mileage per usual, can't wait to hear how it goes with the new group! Always nice when can run with others or have something new to change things up mid-training.

                              Pre-Baby PR's (all from 2015): 5k: 18:46  10k: 38:37 HM: 1:24:51 FM: 2:58:13

                              Postpartum PR's: 5k: 18:18 (2018)  HM: 1:21:14 (2019) FM: 2:57:02 (2019)

                               

                              Next Up: Unsure - but most likely some solo TT's

                               

                              {Strava}{IG}

                               

                              darkwave


                              Mother of Cats

                                 


                                Laser - Welcome. Cramps and crashing at mile 23 like that seem like a classic case of going out too fast, possibly to likely combined with low electrolyte levels. With a 1:27 HM PR you were only ~1 minute behind that at the half point in a full marathon less than a year later. Without knowing any more race results that are closer in time to that marathon, you likely would have been better going through the half in ~1:33-34.

                                +100

                                 

                                When everything goes bad in the final miles of a marathon, unless there's a really obvious outside change (temps jumped up by 15 degrees or a nice day turned to cold rain and hail) it's as simple as: you asked your body for more than it had that day and it shut down on you.

                                 

                                (emphasized not to target you specifically but rather because this happens all the time - people bite off a bit more than they can chew on race day, go out every so slightly too hot, and then are mystified when it goes to hell somewhere between 20 and 26.)

                                 

                                If you had an electrolyte/nutrition issue, it would have shown much much earlier.

                                 

                                It's interesting to note that you said that you had to move your marathon date up.  How much did you lose in terms of training/taper time from that?

                                Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

                                 

                                And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.