2021 Sub 3:00 Marathon Thread (Read 276 times)

Ian5


    Cal-I did run Windermere but I think it is a different one,mine was here in the UK.

    5k 17:35,10k 36:43,10m 61:55,HM 1:24:03,Full 3:07:39

    JMac11


    Taper Czar

       

      I understood that to be what you meant. And maybe my earlier comment/question wasn't well phrased. I am just curious as to why you think doing MP or Tempo in plated shoes would be better off. And I really am curious; I don't have an opinion either way. I haven't tried the shoes for those types of runs, but am willing to consider it if there's a potential benefit.

       

      It seems like everyone agrees using the VF for everyday running doesn't make sense. For me, even if I had an endless supply of super shoes, they're just so awkward at a slower pace. I'd have a hard time getting over that.

       

      So I think the point I follow is to try to run in shoes that at least mimic what you run in if you were running a race at that pace/distance. For easy/long, that's not race pace. You should just be jogging in trainers.

       

      When you start getting to MP/Tempo, it's different. There are a few benefits I think of using different shoes here:

       

      1) In general, varying your shoes throughout the week is good to get different stresses on ligaments/tendons/muscles

      2) Get used to running in lighter shoes / higher stacked shoes during training will benefit you in the race

      3) I run all my everyday runs in 4MM shoes. If I NEVER trained in shoes mimicking race day, I don't know how my body would react to the 10 mm or so in most racers (recognizing other brans have flatter shoes)

       

      All of this is to stay that if Nike developed a shoe that was very close to the VF, but without the carbon plate, I'd train in them. The zoom fly at least gets very close in that it uses different foam than the VF (so it's heavier), but it still has the carbon plate. I think they feel very similar to the VF so I like that when I put on the VF during races, it's completely natural to me.

       

      I would throw this back at you (or anyone) as well: would you ever run a track workout in daily trainers? If not, shouldn't the same logic apply to MP/Tempo runs?

      5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:15:28 (3/20)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

       

      Next Race: Whatever COVID-19 will allow me to run 

      darkwave


      Mother of Cats

         

         

        I would throw this back at you (or anyone) as well: would you ever run a track workout in daily trainers? If not, shouldn't the same logic apply to MP/Tempo runs?

         

        Yes.  While I prefer the Adios 2 Boost for track workouts, I've also run track workouts in the Adios 4 and the SL20 - both of which also get used as daily trainers.   When I was running in the Kinvara, I wore that for everything

        Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

         

        And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

        Andres1045


           Yes.  While I prefer the Adios 2 Boost for track workouts, I've also run track workouts in the Adios 4 and the SL20 - both of which also get used as daily trainers.   When I was running in the Kinvara, I wore that for everything

          Same. I generally run my track workouts in my daily shoe. I don't like to switch things up too much day to day with shoes. But also, for the past 4 years or so, my daily shoe has usually been a lightweight neutral "racing" shoe. Like the NB1400's, Adios series, or the Hyperspeeds. I have never liked running in heavy "training" shoes. So using whatever I'm currently using for a daily shoe when I do track or speed stuff has been fine for the most part.

           

          That was my curiosity. If I transition to racing in plated shoes, should I use some sort of plated shoe to train in? Certainly not all the time like I currently do with my lightweight shoes (that seems to be agreed by all). But should I do it for certain workouts? For now, I'll probably just stick to using them for races.

          Upcoming races: Boston

          dpschumacher


          Making a comeback

            I have used new balance 890s and propels for long track workouts (8xmile or something) but I prefer the rc elite especially for 400-800 stuff at 10k or fast pace. And as noted above, my thought is they stop my legs from being so beat up...but I mean in a equivalent workout. I'll do 20x400 in RC Elite vs 16x400 in 890s. I am definitely tired after both it is my ankles/knees/Achilles that are less beat up which i don't think there is a benefit to beating joints and tendons up. My muscles are still tired the next day, maybe not as sore, but training in them gets more work in w/o injury which is key IMO.

             

             

            Yes.  While I prefer the Adios 2 Boost for track workouts, I've also run track workouts in the Adios 4 and the SL20 - both of which also get used as daily trainers.   When I was running in the Kinvara, I wore that for everything

             

            New 2020 Goal: Actually run a race, any race, just run a real legit race. **Eye Twitching**

            USATFMN XC 6k Lake Elmo Championship 21:49

             

            2021 Goals (Assuming we can race again)

            Marathon Sub 2:40

            10k Sub 35:00 in Marathon build

            5k Sub 16:30 in Marathon build

            darkwave


            Mother of Cats

              DPS - the funny thing is that I have a pair of RC Elites.  I like them a lot, and may start racing shorter stuff in them, but I find them HARDER on my body than the VF, since they are so unstable.  Funny how we're different.

               

              Re: weight of shoes - for the heck of it I just weighed the right shoe of two different pairs - a VF 4% OG, and the Nike Streak 6 (which I often use for easy runs).  The VF was 5.7 oz; the Streak was 5.35 oz.   So it's not like I'm running in anything lighter than my norm on race day - the VFs are actually ever so slightly heavier.

              Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

               

              And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

              dpschumacher


              Making a comeback

                I'm a mid foot striker and am fine in them, but have a friend who is a heal striker(and much faster)  and rolled their ankle 2x in the RC Elite. 🤷‍♂️

                 

                New 2020 Goal: Actually run a race, any race, just run a real legit race. **Eye Twitching**

                USATFMN XC 6k Lake Elmo Championship 21:49

                 

                2021 Goals (Assuming we can race again)

                Marathon Sub 2:40

                10k Sub 35:00 in Marathon build

                5k Sub 16:30 in Marathon build

                flavio1980


                King of pastries

                  Nice discussion about shoes. As mentioned before, I have duck feet so only Altras fit.

                  Any other brand I'd have to purchase a shoe 2 sizers bigger to have them fit. That's actually what I did for the first few years before I found Altras.

                   

                  me - week cut short due to a throat inflammation. I so wanted to title my last run in Italy "Arrivederci Italy". It wasn't going to be.

                  I'm feeling better today, no more inflammation nor fever, but still not 100% so taking today and tomorrow off and hoping to be back at it by Tuesday. And I've barely started marathon training, I hope you guys believe now when I say you all have freakish abilities for being able to sustain big miles in marathon training.

                  Weekly for period: From: 05/24/2021 To 05/30/2021

                  Date Name mi km Duration Avg/mi Avg/km Elevation Gain
                  in ft
                  05/25 8x(200R + 90s E) 9.30 14.96 01:16:28 08:13 05:07 102
                  05/26 Morning Run 7.01 11.27 01:00:51 08:41 05:24 141
                  05/27 4x (1 mi@10k + 2'30E) 4x(150m ON 2' OFF) 9.57 15.40 01:13:39 07:42 04:47 66
                  05/28 Arrivederci Bologna 🍝 7.50 12.06 01:03:52 08:31 05:18 135

                  Total distance: 33.38mi

                  PRs: 1500m 4:54 (2019) 3K 10:34 (2019) 5K 17:56.7 (2021) 9.86K 36:40 (2020) HM 1:21:59 (2021)

                  Up next: ????

                  Tool to generate Strava weekly

                  CalBears


                    flavio - yeah, sub 3 thread training is not for the faint of heart - weakened body starts to give up if you are not strong enough Smile But you can also get back to the land of the weak - I mean, sub 1:30 thread 

                     

                    my week was ok, nothing out of an ordinary (unfortunately? or fortunately - depends of course).

                     

                    Mo - 5.03 @9:36

                    Tu - 7.27 @8:10 (12x400 @5:35-5:50)

                    We - 12.19 @9:00

                    Th - off (one set of three cross-training exercises (maybe 3 minutes total? Smile - obviously was too much for my body)

                    Fr - 11.31 @8:55

                    Sa - 11:30 @9:05

                    Su - 15.15 @8:47

                    ===

                    Total: 62.2 miles

                    paces PRs - 5K - 5:55  /  10K - 6:05  /  HM - 6:14  /  FM - 6:26 per mile

                      flavio: Sorry to hear about the sore throat; colds and sore throats are always annoying but to me they seem even worse in the spring/summer. Hope you are back to full strength.

                       

                      Cal: Nice week. That soreness from lifting is always brutal the first time you do it. Next time should be much less if any. Just like those trail runs up and down the mountain and your quads! 

                       

                      My week: The Miles on the Mohawk 10 mile race was today. The race itself was not quite the result I thought I was capable of now, 1:03:02 official time when I thought I was in about 62 min shape, but it's a good starting point for the next marathon cycle. The highlight was meeting Darkwave; we got to talk before the race and after which was great. I'm looking forward to a week of easy mileage next week.

                       

                      Weekly for period: From: 05/24/2021 To 05/30/2021

                      Date Name mi km Duration Avg/mi Avg/km Elevation Gain
                      in ft
                      05/25 Morning Run 10.15 16.34 1:23:21 8:13 5:06 558
                      05/26 Morning Run w/ 3 x 1 mi 8.69 13.99 1:04:58 7:29 4:39 469
                      05/27 Morning Run 10.03 16.14 1:23:45 8:21 5:11 551
                      05/28 Morning Run 8.08 13.00 1:08:03 8:25 5:14 446
                      05/30 Warm up 1.56 2.52 11:52 7:36 4:43 0
                      05/30 Miles on the Mohawk 10 miler 10.03 16.13 1:03:04 6:17 3:55 131
                      05/30 Rainy cool down with Darkwave 0.30 0.48 3:07 10:23 6:30 0

                      Total distance: 48.85 mi

                      2:52:16 (2018)

                      dpschumacher


                      Making a comeback

                        Flavio:We may get miles that that 5/27 workout is a hard one at any point in a cycle.

                         

                        Cal: Nice job keeping the 400's sub 90

                         

                        JT: being in that shape at the start of a cycle is something.  No way was I able to run a 62 at the start of this marathon build.

                         

                        2 less miles but 2 pretty hard workouts this week.  Got a highly competitive 5k on Monday (Memorial Day for the non US folks).  It will be won in darn near 14...sub 14:30 at the slowest.

                         

                        Monday: 11.2 @7:35 .  Legs felt great after 23 the day before.  Very hot (80F), very humid

                         

                        Tuesday: 6.06/7.53 Double.  averaged around 7:40 between both runs. (85F), but not humid

                         

                        Wednesday: Basically Yasso 800s.  The rest was just 500 jog so it was about a 2:20 break instead of the full 3:37ish.  Cooled off and it was only in the mid 60F

                        2:37 2:35 2:38 2:37 2:38

                        2:36 2:37 2:36 2:37 2:35

                         

                        Thursday: 14 miles at 8:45 PM.  42F Rainy...GPS was off with the storm, but the loop is definitely 14 normally.  First run in the New Balance 1080s which I got to take some wear off my achilles' tendon.  They helped

                         

                        Friday: 9/6 Double run.  7:40 average

                         

                        Saturday: Marathon workout

                        3 MIle warm Up

                        4x4 mile at marathon pace with 3 min jog between reps (24:02 /24:00 /23:58 /24:17).  24:08 was the goal per rep.  The last one was a bit slow to dodging people on a very busy river route and running into a head wind.  22.6 miles with an overall average of 6:26.

                         

                        Sunday: Easy 9 @ 7:46 pace with the dog.

                         

                        Here is my strava log in interested....more info in my runningahead log though.  https://www.strava.com/athletes/44477989

                         

                        New 2020 Goal: Actually run a race, any race, just run a real legit race. **Eye Twitching**

                        USATFMN XC 6k Lake Elmo Championship 21:49

                         

                        2021 Goals (Assuming we can race again)

                        Marathon Sub 2:40

                        10k Sub 35:00 in Marathon build

                        5k Sub 16:30 in Marathon build

                        Marby


                          Flavio: Nice half week.

                           

                          Cal: Fortunately. It’s those ordinary weeks stacked together that make extraordinary.

                           

                          JT: Great 10 miler, enjoy that down week.

                           

                          DPS: Strong workouts (and week).  Dad put down some serious times!

                           

                          After nearly 3 months without a covid case in the community we have a little outbreak going on. The way we deal with those around here is to eliminate them. The way we eliminate is hard lockdown.  We are halfway through what they are calling a 7 day circuit breaker which is due to end on Thursday and the marathon is on Sunday. Having been through similar before, they’ll have to extend lockdown to crush this one and while there is practically no chance of this marathon happening my plan is to stick my head in the sand and pretend it’s all going to be okay.

                           

                          05/24/2021 To 05/30/2021

                          Date Name mi km Duration Avg/mi Avg/km Elevation Gain
                          in ft
                          05/26 Easy 6.23 10.03 00:53:18 08:33 05:19 240
                          05/27 1,2,3,2,1,2,3 min off = AR 7.67 12.35 01:00:53 07:56 04:56 233
                          05/28 L4 Day 1/7 10.13 16.30 01:21:55 08:05 05:02 269
                          05/29 8x 10sec hills 6.43 10.34 00:57:41 08:58 05:35 413
                          05/30 2x 7k@MP off 5min 12.58 20.24 01:36:04 07:38 04:45 531

                          Total distance: 43.04mi

                          10K 41:35 (2016), Half 1:27:01 (2015) Marathon 3:02:48 (2015)

                          dpschumacher


                          Making a comeback

                            Oh man, Marby. That suuuuuuuuuuucks.

                             

                            New 2020 Goal: Actually run a race, any race, just run a real legit race. **Eye Twitching**

                            USATFMN XC 6k Lake Elmo Championship 21:49

                             

                            2021 Goals (Assuming we can race again)

                            Marathon Sub 2:40

                            10k Sub 35:00 in Marathon build

                            5k Sub 16:30 in Marathon build

                              DPS: Incredible week! You've got to be happy with that LR: 16 mi at MP!! It's also good you're getting some hot weather to acclimate in case race day is warm.

                               

                              Marby: What lousy timing; I hope there's a miracle and the race goes on as planned.

                               

                              juhdak: Everything ok? It seems like you didn't run the half on Saturday; hope you are not injured.

                              2:52:16 (2018)

                              dpschumacher


                              Making a comeback

                                16:34 5k off 100 /100/ 98 mile weeks today. Pretty darn happy with that.

                                 

                                Thanks to any Veterans who may be in this thread!

                                 

                                New 2020 Goal: Actually run a race, any race, just run a real legit race. **Eye Twitching**

                                USATFMN XC 6k Lake Elmo Championship 21:49

                                 

                                2021 Goals (Assuming we can race again)

                                Marathon Sub 2:40

                                10k Sub 35:00 in Marathon build

                                5k Sub 16:30 in Marathon build