2021 Sub 3:00 Marathon Thread (Read 276 times)

darkwave


Mother of Cats

    Marby- well done!  I'd be very happy with that time trial.  Interesting on the fasting not being an issue - I definitely could not fast for 48 hours before a longer race.


    FWIW, I think the approach you are taking (double taper) is the best way to handle a tough situation.  You can't just extend the training cycle, but inserting a big effort followed by a short break could work quite well.  Similar to athletes that peak for a national trials, and then again for the Olympics/Worlds.

     

    Congratulations on the jab as well!

     

    OMR - good week!

     

    Flavio- good to catch the overtraining early.

     

    ***

     

    My week:

     

    63 miles running, 1000 yards swimming, and 2 hours pool-running

    M: 1 hour pool-running and streaming yoga.
    T: 5 miles (9:15), upper body weights/core, and then 3.5 miles (9:09).
    W: 11.5 miles (9:03) and streaming yoga.
    Th: 4 miles very easy on treadmill (9:47), 1 hour pool-running, and upper body weights/core.
    Fr: 12 miles, including a track workout of 3200, 1600 in 13:08 (6:36/6:32) and 6:24, with 5:22 jogging recovery between the two. Followed with leg strengthwork and 500 yards recovery swimming.
    Sa: 10.5 miles very easy (9:12) plus drills and 6 hill sprints, and then streaming yoga.
    Su: 16.5 miles progressive, split as first 5 averaging 8:49 pace, next 6.5 averaging 8:02 pace; next 5 averaging 7:46 pace. Followed with leg strengthwork and 500 yards recovery swimming.

     

    The heat and humidity really rolled in this week - good for heat acclimation, sucky for running in it.  I managed to progress my long run slightly this morning, but I sure didn't get anywhere near goal marathon pace.  But at least I didn't do any damage.  At this point, that's the most important thing.

    Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

     

    And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

    SteveChCh


    Hot Weather Complainer

      Since I've joined the thread I should cross post my week...this was my last big week before the taper and it went really well.  The long run was comfortable and I may have been able to another 7km MP block if my life depended on it.  Along with the comments here, that has given me a confidence boost.

       

      Also found out a Strava friend is doing the same race and she's about my pace in the half so we may be able to work together, although she has plenty of experience at the marathon distance.  There isn't a big field in this one so 3:20 will be good enough for a top 50 finish based on previous years which means there won't be many people around to work with.

       

      marby - That's a great time any time, especially in a TT.  I used to run that trail sometimes when I stayed with my friends in the north - when I lived in Melbourne though it was strictly south of the river!  Sensible approach to the delay - it's a very tough situation to have to adjust your targeted peak like that.

       

      darkwave - Nice week - that's a taper week for you right?  And yet still a big one.

       

      Weekly for period: From: 31/05/2021 To 06/06/2021

      Date Name mi km Duration Avg/mi Avg/km Elevation Gain
      in m
      31/05 Warm up 0.28 0.46 00:03:03 10:54 06:38 0
      31/05 70 mins easy pace 9.04 14.54 01:11:11 07:52 04:54 20
      02/06 Warm up 0.34 0.54 00:03:05 09:04 05:43 0
      02/06 Med-Long incl. 5 x (3km @ MP, 1km easy) 14.94 24.04 01:53:01 07:34 04:42 15
      03/06 Recovery 5.52 8.88 00:47:59 08:42 05:24 18
      04/06 Warm up 0.29 0.46 00:02:43 09:22 05:54 0
      04/06 Easy 10km 6.27 10.08 00:50:16 08:01 04:59 11
      05/06 Warm up 0.29 0.46 00:02:51 09:50 06:12 0
      05/06 Long incl. 3 x 7km @ MP 21.18 34.08 02:42:09 07:39 04:45 39
      06/06 Recovery 5.04 8.12 00:45:04 08:57 05:33 6

      Total distance: 101.67km

      PB:  Christchurch 2016 1:29.25

      Recent Races:    Queenstown Half-Marathon (trail) November 21, 2020 1:35.11 Cherry Blossom Half-Marathon, September 13, 2020 1:33:38 Half-Marathon Time Trial May 31, 2020 1:31.51  Auckland Waterfront Half-Marathon 2019 1:30.49 

      Plan for 2021:  Christchurch Half-Marathon April 11 (tempo/training run), Wellington Marathon June 27,  Queenstown Half-Marathon November 20

        Marby: Congratulations on the excellent time trial! Great execution all around. I agree with the others that your plan to deal with the marathon moving out is a good one. Very impressive # of push-ups! After over 3000 of those you'll be strong enough to run the last 5k of your marathon on your arms 

         

        Flavio: Always good to catch overtraining early. On another topic, what do you think about Hassan's 10k WR?  I really wonder what events she'll do at the Olympics. Could really be any 2 out of the 1500, 5k and 10k.

         

        DW: Nice taper week. The heat certainly came on with a vengeance this week, and looks to continue this week even more. It will be great adaptation training in the hopefully unlikely case that race day is warm.

         

        Steve: Excellent week there, and strong long run. It's a great sign if another 7k block felt doable.

         

        OMR: I'm interested in your experience with the metatarsalgia. Do the orthotics just keep it at bay, or is it a lingering issue for you? Do you wear the orthotics all the time, running and non-running? I have an appointment with a podiatrist this week and I'm guessing he might suggest orthotics. Ironically, I was wearing custom made ones before I started running, and wore them for the first 8 months or so but then phased them out and have not worn them the last 7 years. Maybe time to return to using them.

         

        Me: I took 4 days off running and rode the bike; god, what misery that is. I ran today on the treadmill for 50 minutes and the foot was fine during that, and has been since. In the last couple days the swelling underneath has finally gone down. Barefoot walking is still dodgy but with shoes on I am fine. May try to run outside tomorrow.

        2:52:16 (2018)

        Marby


          Flavio: Good to recognise something was awry and address it. Starting the week in one country and ending in another must have had some impact.


          Darkwave: Trust the taper and that heat adaptation will happen.


          JTR: You had this thing for your 10 miler? At least you know what and how.


          OMR: Nice week and tempos… tempoes... tempi…


          Steve: You see the similarities in what we’ve been doing, right? You need to stop this 3:20 nonsense. My money is on you running comfortably sub 3:15, even in the wind (not a lot of it… money or wind).

          10K 41:35 (2016), Half 1:27:01 (2015) Marathon 3:02:48 (2015)

          OMR


            marby:  Great time for the half, and for making the best of a difficult situation!

            Dwave:  Nice week, and good that you are getting some heat acclimation.

            SteveChCh:. That’s a solid last week, good luck with the taper.

            JT:  I have Morton’s Toe, so my issue is skeletal:  the metatarsal for the second toe is longer than that of the big toe.  When I toe off, all of the pressure falls on the 2nd toe’s metatarsal head unless I roll off unnaturally to the outside.  Walking barefoot on a hard surface has always been an issue for me, although one learns naturally how to compensate.  I started having metatarsal pain not too long after I started running; once I got to around 25-30mpw.  At that point, I wound up getting orthotics.  My PT custom makes them, and they have a built-in metatarsal pad that lifts the 2nd metatarsal to ease the pressure when toeing off.  I only wear them while running, as most other shoes either have enough padding to ease the pressure from walking, or I can just add a normal shoe insert to increase the padding.  I tried diy metatarsal pads for a while, but I never could get them to be consistently in the right spot, or to have the right amount of lift.  Anyhow, it sounds as though your symptoms are subsiding, which is good, especially being able to run on it for 50 minutes.  So, I’d probably just keep doing what you’re doing now, especially avoiding walking barefoot until you can do so without pain.  Mostly, you don’t want to aggravate it at all, so if treadmill running works but road running causes pain, then I would switch to the treadmill for a couple of weeks and gradually reintroduce road running.

            SteveChCh


            Hot Weather Complainer

              Steve: You see the similarities in what we’ve been doing, right? You need to stop this 3:20 nonsense. My money is on you running comfortably sub 3:15, even in the wind (not a lot of it… money or wind).

               

              Yep, I do and I know I'm being conservative but it is my first marathon and I want to do all I can to avoid extended periods of hating it.  As JMac pointed out in the other thread, I'm prepared for some dark times during the race but I want to avoid complete disaster.  The wind factor can't be overstated though - Wellington often experiences hurricane force wind and especially around the waterfront where this race is.  I don't think I'll go sub 3:15 but if I stick to the plan and have anything left I'll try and push towards the end.  Also, you have more marathons in your legs!

              PB:  Christchurch 2016 1:29.25

              Recent Races:    Queenstown Half-Marathon (trail) November 21, 2020 1:35.11 Cherry Blossom Half-Marathon, September 13, 2020 1:33:38 Half-Marathon Time Trial May 31, 2020 1:31.51  Auckland Waterfront Half-Marathon 2019 1:30.49 

              Plan for 2021:  Christchurch Half-Marathon April 11 (tempo/training run), Wellington Marathon June 27,  Queenstown Half-Marathon November 20

                OMR: Thanks a lot for all the insight and sharing your experience. I'll see what the podiatrist says, but I think your advice makes the most sense. I feel like since I've been able to run for 7 years without orthotics, I shouldn't need to start using them now. But perhaps something has gradually changed and they may be necessary. I managed an outdoor run this morning, and was fine except for a couple of times when I stepped on a small rock at just the right spot that it sent a shooting pain. Also, going up steep hills is tricky since those tend to be mostly on-your-toes type efforts. So definitely some advantages to the treadmill in that regard.

                2:52:16 (2018)

                dpschumacher


                Making a comeback

                  OMR-Solid Interval Tempo/Long Tempo runs.  What pace is that approximating for you?

                   

                  Flavio-1500 training would 100% explode my achilles, ankle, knee and hip in exactly 1 workout.

                   

                  Marby-That all seems pretty smart plan, taper and rebuild.

                   

                  DW- I too hope for heat benefits because it is insane here.

                   

                  Steve-Welcome to club taper. where everything is awful, i mean great, i mean awful, i mean great for the next few weeks.

                   

                  JT-Give it some extra rest if you can.  No sense in being on again off again for the next 2 months.

                   

                  My week:  IT IS HOT AF AND IT IS GOING TO BE HOT AF FOR-EV-ER.

                   

                  Life with kids and work and all I have had to run often during the peak heat or near peak heat of the day all week.  Temps have largely been in the mid 80's to high 90's and have been oppressive to say the least.  My easy days have been slowing down each day and still my garmin is reporting that i'm working harder and harder each day compared to last week which was higher mileage and effort.

                   

                  Monday: Brian Knight Memorial 5k 16:34

                  Coming off the mileage, I felt pretty good about this time.  Goal was around 16:36.  Kicked it down the last 150m cause I could see the clock.  Hard to hold the last mile and change but hung in there.  Didn't go to the well or anything and felt fine the next day, but this was the last of teh good weather runs for the most part this week. 9 and change on the day with WU/CD.

                   

                  Tues: Lunch run. 9 miles on dirt mostly

                   

                  Wed: Workout in the 80s, full sun, on the track. 17 (out of 20)x400 with 200 jog.  See previous posts for discussion :-).  Achilles acting up.  This has been on and off during the cycle.  I think the issue was some new (but sitting for a long time in a box) shoes that got way less than normal life.  I think the foam broke down early and wore out my left leg which has a bunch of issues stemming from a car accident in college.

                   

                  Thursday: 7.5 Miles/5.5 double.  First in the 80s second 90 ish out side.  Just felt like crap.  Legs were find, but the heat was just super draining.

                   

                  Friday:10.7 Easy run.. Near 80 again. 8:30 am run. 3.4 mile run 3:30 pm just under 100F.  Again just hot and felling like crap in the heat.

                   

                  Saturday: Long Run Workout. Supposed to be a 6 @ 6:02, 5 @ 6:00, 4 @ 6:00, 3 @ 5:58 with 3 min jog between and 2 mi wu/cd.  Started out at 78 and was in the mid-80s by the end.  Got through the 6 and 5 and then just ran a moderate pace for the last part back to the house.  Stopped for water at the water fountains I passed on the route (as planned).  Heat just sapped the energy same as the last few days.

                   

                  Sunday: 7.5 at 7:30 pm. Super busy day with lots of work around the house and yard.  Got to a small park pool in our neighborhood.  It was still in the low 90's by the time I ran.  Just a rough week with the heat.  Going to switch to morning runs to avoid the heat and get on the marathon sleep cycle (up early, run early).

                   

                  DW- Weather still looking OK up north.  Hopefully if we start early we can finish before it hist the 70s.  Thank goodness for the largest coldest lake in the world.

                   

                  New 2020 Goal: Actually run a race, any race, just run a real legit race. **Eye Twitching**

                  USATFMN XC 6k Lake Elmo Championship 21:49

                   

                  2021 Goals (Assuming we can race again)

                  Marathon Sub 2:40

                  10k Sub 35:00 in Marathon build

                  5k Sub 16:30 in Marathon build

                  SteveChCh


                  Hot Weather Complainer

                     

                    Steve-Welcome to club taper. where everything is awful, i mean great, i mean awful, i mean great for the next few weeks.

                     

                    Ha!  My coach said yesterday to expect to feel rubbish until the Thursday before the race.  What will the temp be at the start of your race?  70F or higher would be tough if it was that warm for long periods of the race.

                    PB:  Christchurch 2016 1:29.25

                    Recent Races:    Queenstown Half-Marathon (trail) November 21, 2020 1:35.11 Cherry Blossom Half-Marathon, September 13, 2020 1:33:38 Half-Marathon Time Trial May 31, 2020 1:31.51  Auckland Waterfront Half-Marathon 2019 1:30.49 

                    Plan for 2021:  Christchurch Half-Marathon April 11 (tempo/training run), Wellington Marathon June 27,  Queenstown Half-Marathon November 20

                    darkwave


                    Mother of Cats

                       

                      DW- Weather still looking OK up north.  Hopefully if we start early we can finish before it hist the 70s.  Thank goodness for the largest coldest lake in the world.

                       

                      I am hopeful.  I also know from previous experience that no forecast is completely reliable, including the one the evening before.  Many times I have gone to bed on Friday night, and woken to something completely different.

                       

                      BTW, looks like you might be running with Alan Webb...

                      Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

                       

                      And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

                        Thank God you lot are not talking about cicadas anymore at least 😅 Sorry this was meant for 1.30 forum

                        50+ PBs -  

                        5k 18.25 Tauranga Parkrun  Sept 20      81.97 % age grade

                        10k 37.21 may 2nd 2021 strava run 82.51 % age grade

                        Half marathon  1.23.30 may 21 80.11 % age grade

                        " If you don't use it you lose it,  but if you use it, it wears out.

                        Somewhere in between is about right "      

                         

                        darkwave


                        Mother of Cats

                          Thank God you lot are not talking about cicadas anymore at least 😅 Sorry this was meant for 1.30 forum

                           

                          Is that a request?  I've got more material....

                          Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

                           

                          And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

                          dpschumacher


                          Making a comeback

                            Webb vs Merber in the marathon is the race that we need with all the 5k/10k (Bumbalough, Dathan, etc) on the coverage vehicle eating popcorn cracking jokes

                             

                             

                            I am hopeful.  I also know from previous experience that no forecast is completely reliable, including the one the evening before.  Many times I have gone to bed on Friday night, and woken to something completely different.

                             

                            BTW, looks like you might be running with Alan Webb...

                             

                            New 2020 Goal: Actually run a race, any race, just run a real legit race. **Eye Twitching**

                            USATFMN XC 6k Lake Elmo Championship 21:49

                             

                            2021 Goals (Assuming we can race again)

                            Marathon Sub 2:40

                            10k Sub 35:00 in Marathon build

                            5k Sub 16:30 in Marathon build

                            OMR


                              OMR-Solid Interval Tempo/Long Tempo runs.  What pace is that approximating for you?

                               

                              I'm not sure, in part because the increased heat has sent my paces in the wrong direction.  The 5K I'm running next week is a 7pm start, so it's probably going to be close to 90 degrees.

                              flavio1980


                              King of pastries

                                Marby - that’s a very smart plan with the double taper.

                                 

                                JT - Hassan is in superb form, let’s see how she keeps it until August

                                 

                                DPS - we’re all different but I’d reckon that the much, MUCH shorter bouts of 1500m workouts would be easier on your body. You’d also be running way less mileage.

                                I miss running 100s and 200s all out.

                                PRs: 1500m 4:54 (2019) 3K 10:34 (2019) 5K 17:56.7 (2021) 9.86K 36:40 (2020) HM 1:21:59 (2021)

                                Up next: ????

                                Tool to generate Strava weekly