2021 Sub 3:00 Marathon Thread (Read 423 times)

darkwave


Mother of Cats

    Flavio - do you want me to buy you a pair of shoes in the US and ship to you at your current location?  I'm serious.  This is crazy.

     

    JTReeves  - nice week with a good workout.  I can't believe you're that close to your marathon.

     

    OMR - nice week for your as well.  I hope the smoke clears.  (We're getting a bit of it as well, but not enough to be material)

     

    Marby - congrats on the successful pacing job, and congrats to your sister on her PR.

     

    ***

     

    My week:

     

    53 miles running, 3:30 hours pool-running, and 1000 yards swimming.
    M: 1:40 minutes of pool-running and upper body weights/core.
    T: 11 miles, with 2x(1600, 800) and 2x200m. Splits were 6:41, 3:10, 6:33, 3:04, 44, and 43. Long recoveries. Followed with leg strengthwork and 500 yards recovery swimming.
    W: 9 miles easy (9:41) plus drills and two hill strides, then streaming yoga, followed by 3 miles very easy on treadmill (9:46)
    Th: 1:50 minutes pool-running and upper body weights/core.
    F: 12 miles including a 4 mile tempo in 28:12 (7:06/7:10/7:07/6:49). Followed with leg strengthwork and 500 yards recovery swimming.
    Sa: 10 miles easy on treadmill (9:50) followed by streaming yoga.
    Su: 8 miles easy (9:44) plus drills and two hill sprints, and then upper body weights/core.

     

    Started back up with some workouts this week.  Felt lousy.  Breathing is great (no asthma), legs feel nice and strong and fresh, but aerobically I'm struggling both when I run and when I swim.  Those easy runs are about as slow as I can run, mechanically, and my HR and perceived effort are still higher than I'd like.

     

    I got some bloodwork done this week, and to my uneducated eye it looks like my CBC is totally fine (nothing indicating anemia) but that my iron levels are low.  I have an appointment with the GI doctor next week to discuss the results of last week's scoping, so I'll see what they think about the iron levels.  I'm already on iron supplements (carefully separated from calcium supplements by a few hours) and also eat red meat regularly, so we're covering those bases.

    Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

     

    And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

    CalBears


      Marby - 1:57 is a good result for first HM! Was it a bucket list for her or is she going to continue with a goal of beating you in a race in the future? Smile

       

      flavio - 19.78 for 100 meters at age of 90 - I will take it, even if I come after Mikkey Smile In Russia is the same - very simplistic approach to everything that other countries make so complicated - there is certainly no Wide for running shoes, there is still a perception that Cotton t-shirt is more healthy for you (and your running) than synthetic one and I do not think there is a n idea of mileage for shoes. As a Russian though, I am totally OK with my country approach - I do not think it's important what you are training at - just bring the good stuff on your racing day Smile. Great week btw - I am just worried that you can overdo it - you sound like you start to become very tired and unhappy.

       

      OMR - down week is a greatest thing that could happen to us, old folks...

       

      JTR - solid week, very similar to my paces.

       

      RP - oh, come on - stop over-dramatizing everything Smile

       

      DW - very uncharacteristic week for you - pace wise - seems like something is really off - I hope it all repairable.

       

      My week was fine - continues with runs at a higher HR and so far so good, will see how it goes in 2-3 weeks.

       

      Mo - off

      Tu - 9.23 @7:50 2x800 400jog (5:28,5:25) 8x400 200jog (5:07,5:22,5:26,5:26,5:20,5:22,5:21,5:14)

      We - 8.21 @7:37

      Th - 6:54 @8:48

      Fr - 11.64 @7:25 with 7@160-165bpm(6:37-6:51 pace)

      Sa - 6.61 @7:50

      Su - 21.04 @8:02

      ===

      Total: 62.3 miles

      paces PRs - 5K - 5:48  /  10K - 6:05  /  HM - 6:14  /  FM - 6:26 per mile

      flavio1980


      Intl. correspondent

        These wildfires seem really scary!

         

        JT - Yeah, I’ll be performing some small surgeries to the shoe for sure to release some of the pressure on the top of the toe area.

         

        Uneventful is the best kind of week!

         

        Darkwave - thanks for the kind offer, it won’t be necessary. I’ll manage with the hoka Bondi and I plan on making some small adjustments to it. It’s still very runnable.

        It seems like you can’t catch a break with the absorption issues. Here hopes you can get this latest issue figured out.

         

        Cal - I’m indeed feeling tired lately, I’ve asked the coach for a week with lower mileage.

        I have no idea what those numbers are, I gauge intervals in terms of duration (no math required), but those 800s and 400s look fast!

        I'm thinking 5:20 pace means a 2:40 800 which is indeed fast.

        PRs: 1500 4:51 2019 - 5K 17:56 2021 HM 1:21:59 2021

        Up next: Rest and recover

        Tool to generate Strava weekly

        CalBears


           

           Cal - I’m indeed feeling tired lately, I’ve asked the coach for a week with lower mileage.

          I have no idea what those numbers are, I gauge intervals in terms of duration (no math required), but those 800s and 400s look fast!

          I'm thinking 5:20 pace means a 2:40 800 which is indeed fast.

           

          Yeah, I do not know why but I was always about pace and distance, not time a distance - I guess, it's kind of a habit (like miles and kms - took me some time to get used to miles after I came from Russia, but now I see kms and feel lost Smile

           

          JTR - I wonder why JMac is not on the marathon list with his CIM registration? Smile

          paces PRs - 5K - 5:48  /  10K - 6:05  /  HM - 6:14  /  FM - 6:26 per mile

          JTReeves


             

             JTR - I wonder why JMac is not on the marathon list with his CIM registration? Smile

             

            I can tell you why: because I did not put him there.   I recall he was unsure earlier in the year if he would do CIM or some other earlier race (can't recall which one). But if it is CIM I'll update the table accordingly. Sorry for missing that.

            2:52:16 (2018)

            CalBears


               

              I can tell you why: because I did not put him there.   I recall he was unsure earlier in the year if he would do CIM or some other earlier race (can't recall which one). But if it is CIM I'll update the table accordingly. Sorry for missing that.

               

              He presented his plans on page 79 Smile

              paces PRs - 5K - 5:48  /  10K - 6:05  /  HM - 6:14  /  FM - 6:26 per mile

              JMac11


              Milkman

                 

                I can tell you why: because I did not put him there.   I recall he was unsure earlier in the year if he would do CIM or some other earlier race (can't recall which one). But if it is CIM I'll update the table accordingly. Sorry for missing that.

                 

                Good memory. I'm signed up for Indy too as I wasn't  sure if I could do CIM due to other plans. But I'm fully committed to CIM (flight and hotel are already booked). Put me down for a PR. I'm so far behind this year in training (compared to 2019) but I refuse to put anything less than PR on the board.

                5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:15:00 (10/21)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

                 

                Next Race: Unknown 

                jhudak55


                  DW: Curious, are low iron levels due to poor absorption because of the GI issues?

                   

                  Cal: I ran my long run as you recommended last week, now just going to start extending it out over the next couple weeks. I think I'll run most of my long runs that don't have a MP segment in them like this.

                   

                  Flavio: Crazy on the lack of availability for shoes. I forget how lucky I am to be able to just drop into a running store and pick something up, as necessary.

                   

                  OMR: Its nice when other obligations line up with the down week.

                   

                  JT: I think we had similar weather last Thursday morning. Made for a very enjoyable workout.

                   

                  My week:

                  61.2 miles

                   

                  M: 11 miles aerobic (8:11)

                  T: 13 mile MLR (8:14)

                  W: 5.2 mile recovery (9:23)

                  T: 8.5 miles with a 4 mile tempo (6:28, 6:26, 6:20, 6:25)

                  F: 5.2 mile recovery (9:29)

                  S: 16 mile long run (7:47)

                  S: 3.1 mile recovery (9:43)

                   

                  Really happy with this week. This was my biggest volume week since last October. I've been working on pickup up the pace a bit on aerobic/MLR/LR stuff and keeping recovery days very, very easy. I lined my tempo run up with some really nice weather Thursday morning and got a solid workout in. I was surprised by how much my paces had improved from the same workout two weeks ago, albeit in worse weather conditions. Saturday's long run was steady at MP + 10% - 20%. It was a nice change from the progression style.

                   

                  I plan to run a parkrun 5k on Saturday morning. Hopefully I can beat my 19:09 from a time trial two weeks ago.

                  JMac11


                  Milkman

                    Flavio - 700+ miles on a shoe??? I start getting worried around 400. Anything 500+ is not acceptable during marathon training!

                     

                    Regarding your long workout, that's how it goes with marathon training. At the end of my 2:36, I was having a conversation with the women's Olympic A standard pacer, as the women he was pacing had taken off ahead of him. I was about 24 miles in at that point and in a lot of pain (as you always are in a marathon at that point), but I had no trouble getting sentences out to this guy. That's how the marathon is: you should never really have breathing issues. If you do, you're working too hard.

                     

                    Jhud - I admit I haven't followed your training on here as I'm just coming back to this thread. But if you're running around 19:00 for a 5K, aren't your training paces a little quick?

                    5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:15:00 (10/21)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

                     

                    Next Race: Unknown 

                    JTReeves


                      Darkwave: I hope you can figure out what is causing the fatigue. I'm wondering what your hemoglobin level is. Mine was quite low a few years ago, around 12; usually I am in the low 13s, which is low for men (typical range is 13.0-17.0 for men) but 12 is getting too low. Anyway, I felt like you are describing. My B12 level was also low so I started taking a B12 gummy every morning. I eventually got out of the funk, and a follow-up blood test a month or two later showed the hemoglobin back in the 13s. Not sure if the B12 gummy did it or what. But I suspect you are already on top of all those numbers and are supplementing what needs to be supplemented (iron and folate).

                       

                      Cal: Your speedwork is looking great, also a nice 7 mile tempo. Thanks for posting the Boston related stuff. I'll follow the lead of people here for registering.

                       

                      JMac: You're on the table now for CIM (so Cal should be able to relax ). Plenty of time for you to round into PR shape.

                       

                      jhudak: Great week for you! That is an excellent tempo run. I'm sure the weather helped but in general I think you are finding your groove and progressing nicely to a new level. I like your plans regarding paces for the MLR/LR and easy days. That's the way I'm trying to go as well. Good luck on the 5k, I think you'll be knocking significant time off your PR.

                       

                      There is an 8 mile road race in my town Saturday and I think I'll do it. It's very hilly but will serve as a good workout. Plus will be a good chance to catch up with some local runners.

                      2:52:16 (2018)

                      Running Problem


                      Problem Child

                        Cal Air Quality Index is a 247 at home right now. It's a 113 near work so I'm tempted to go try and run. I mostly have a stuffy nose at this point. I also feel like another sub 3 is going to take a LOT of work and improvement.

                         

                        Dwave Isn't low iron a common situation you have to deal with? Sucks to struggle aerobically when there is nothing else going on. Especially WHILE doing the workout.

                         

                        JMac I thought you had a race last weekend? Is it THIS weekend?

                        Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.

                        VDOT 51

                        5k19:35 | Marathon 2:59:10

                        darkwave


                        Mother of Cats

                           

                           

                          Jhud - I admit I haven't followed your training on here as I'm just coming back to this thread. But if you're running around 19:00 for a 5K, aren't your training paces a little quick?

                           

                          I believe he time trialed around 19:00 for a 5K in awful weather.  I don't see that tempo as out of line, since it was in unseasonably good weather.

                           

                          OMR  - yup, it's suspected that my issues with malabsorption of certain things (iron and folate) are tied to the issues with my GI tract.  That's what we're trying to unwind right now.

                           

                          JTReeves - Hemoglobin is fine - 13.3 (ref range of 11.7 to 15.5).  Hematocrit also great - 40.5 (reference range of 35.0-45.0).  Sometimes when you have deficiencies you can end up with issues with the sizes of your red blood cells - too big or too small.  But my CBC indicates that my red blood cells are all the right size (mean RBC volume of 92.7 - ref range of 80.0-100.0) and that there's very little variation in their size (RDW 11.5 - reference range of 11.0-15.0).  It all looks great to me (I am not a doctor).

                           

                          When looking at the CBC, I did note that my mean RBC Iron concentration (MCHC) is within the reference range, but at the bottom of the range. (32.8, where reference range is 32.0-36.0)  I'm not sure if that's noteworthy - I'll ask the doctor.

                          Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

                           

                          And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

                          JMac11


                          Milkman

                             

                            JTReeves - Hemoglobin is fine - 13.3 (ref range of 11.7 to 15.5).  Hematocrit also great - 40.5 (reference range of 35.0-45.0).  Sometimes when you have deficiencies you can end up with issues with the sizes of your red blood cells - too big or too small.  But my CBC indicates that my red blood cells are all the right size (mean RBC volume of 92.7 - ref range of 80.0-100.0) and that there's very little variation in their size (RDW 11.5 - reference range of 11.0-15.0).  It all looks great to me (I am not a doctor).

                             

                            When looking at the CBC, I did note that my mean RBC Iron concentration (MCHC) is within the reference range, but at the bottom of the range. (32.8, where reference range is 32.0-36.0)  I'm not sure if that's noteworthy - I'll ask the doctor.

                             

                            You are surprisingly analytical for a lawyer 

                            5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:15:00 (10/21)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

                             

                            Next Race: Unknown 

                            OMR


                              JT:  Yeah, I was doubting I would survive 12 reps up that hill after running the first 2-3, but managed OK.  Nice week and a solid tempo workout for you.  I'm also willing to move workouts to days with less heat/humidity, but they seem to be few and far between these days.

                               

                              RP:  Good luck with the upcoming start to training.

                               

                              Dwave:  The smoke here has been intermittent, depending on the wind.  It cleared out for the weekend, but is expected to return later this week.  In between, the wind is coming out of the south, so the humidity is on the rise again.  I think you attributed jhudak's question to me, but I was wondering the same thing, so thanks for answering!  Hope you get things figured out quickly.

                               

                              cal:  Yeah, I'm trying to honor those down weeks more than I used to, as I've been having some intermittent pain around my knees; not in the joint, however, which is good.  That's a solid week, interesting how you just flipped the switch on those paces.

                               

                              flavio:  How did the coach respond to your request for lower mileage?

                               

                              jhudak:  It is equally nice when workouts line up with good weather!  Well done on the tempo run, and a good week for you!

                              jhudak55


                                 

                                 Jhud - I admit I haven't followed your training on here as I'm just coming back to this thread. But if you're running around 19:00 for a 5K, aren't your training paces a little quick?

                                 

                                Not sure if you are referencing the tempo run or just overall, but the tempo was by feel while monitoring heart rate (only check HR to confirm the effort isn't too high). I was surprised how quick the splits were. Compared to a 4 mile tempo from two weeks earlier my effort was a bit less and heart rate was significantly lower.

                                 

                                Regarding paces overall, I'm using the pfitz 18/70 plan which doesn't include too many workouts outside of long runs and tempos which are approximately every other week. As such, I'm doing more aerobic running, which I'd consider on the faster end of easy. Everything felt very under control.