2021 Sub 3:00 Marathon Thread (Read 421 times)

jhudak55


    DW: Did you enjoy stepping in as coach for the week or were you just filling the void? We need a link to your new coaching service!

     

    Cal: Nice job getting under 1:30! Do you plan on running any part of CIM by heart rate like you did for the half?

    JMac11


    Milkman

      Flavio - you know you're in marathon training when cutback weeks are still 50+.

       

      JT - 3rd overall in the 5K is great for your son. Is he at the point where he can beat his old man???

       

      JHUD - good job on the 5K, with better pacing you are easily sub 18:45.

       

      DW - whenever I see people doing weird things (like running completely on their toes such that not even their mid-food hits the ground), I just assume they read it in Runner's World.

       

      Cal - I thought that was a great race for you! Much better shape than you were coming into 2019 CIM, I think you have a big fall ahead of you. I also agree on Mikkey, seeing him on my Strava was like seeing an old friend you haven't in a while, it was a nice surprise!

      5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:15:00 (10/21)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

       

      Next Race: Unknown 

      JMac11


      Milkman

        I also ran a race completely by feel like Cal, except it was not by my own choosing and I didn't even have a HR monitor. I was charging my watch in a different part of my apartment when packing and just said I'd remember it in the morning when I left. Well, I didn't. I then figured there would be clocks on the course, so at least I could adjust throughout my race. I quickly found out by mile 1 that were no clocks and I was going to run my 5 mile race completely by feel.

         

        Ultimately, I don't think that was great for me. This race usually has some halfway decent guys (2 years ago, 5 runners broke 6:00 pace), but as soon as I got about 100 meters off the start line, I realized that nobody fast had showed up. I was in the lead very early on (which I rarely am because there are always guys going out too fast), and by about half a mile in, I couldn't even hear footsteps behind me. This turned my race more into a TT of sorts with no idea what pace I was running.

         

        I realized by mile 3.5 that either I was having a hell of a race because I still felt pretty good, or I was too slow. So in a way, running by feel did at least tell me that I should have felt worse by that point, but it was too late. I came home for the W at 29:24, which was significantly off my goal of sub 29:00. I learned my lesson that I need a watch in any race, or at least clocks, to help me push myself in earlier miles in shorter races because my feel just isn't perfect at those distances.

         

        I don't know how to take the result. I am quickly realizing I am not in the shape I was in at this same point for my PR at CIM in 2019. However, I'm not going to panic and I'm going to put in the serious work needed. I will hit the panic button if I run a disastrous 10K in about 6 weeks.

         

        Oh: one more thing. In no way did I let on to anyone who talked to me that I was upset with my time. I absolutely HATE guys who win races and then either talk about how slow they ran, how they're coming back from injury, or how they just "tempo'd" the race. You take the W and you thank everyone who says "wow, what a great job." You don't qualify it with how much better you could have run. A W is a W in a race. You worry about the time and what it means for your larger goals internally.

        5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:15:00 (10/21)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

         

        Next Race: Unknown 

        Running Problem


        Problem Child

          Date

          Name

          mi

          km

          Duration

          Avg/mi

          Avg/km

          Elevation Gain
          in ft

          07/27

          That time it was an AQI of ‘💯’ 🙄

          5.76

          9.27

          00:47:35

          08:16

          05:08

          98

          07/28

          That time I just don’t have the passion.

          4.47

          7.20

          00:38:39

          08:39

          05:22

          190

          07/29

          That time I tried REALLY hard…to be back in time.

          6.15

          9.89

          00:53:09

          08:39

          05:22

          141

          07/29

          TRX 3x10

          0.00

          0.00

          00:30:28

          00:00

          00:00

          0

          07/30

          That time ‘Air Construction Permitting’ meeting is covert for ‘You’re getting written up.’

          6.47

          10.40

          01:08:10

          10:32

          06:33

          299

          07/31

          That time we had to Pivot on Kivett.

          14.10

          22.68

          02:04:15

          08:49

          05:29

          764

          08/01

          That time we wanted to beat the morning crowds. 🖤

          9.95

          16.01

          01:25:26

          08:35

          05:20

          610

          Weekly for period: From: 07/26/2021 To 08/01/2021

          Total distance: 46.90mi

           

           

          Posted this in the sub 1:30 thread.  CIM training officially starts this week. I think I'm battling RSV (had a cough for at least a month) and the COVID 19 vaccine is now required if I don't want to go through mandatory weekly testing for work (work isn't giving me leave to test, and is only giving me 4 hours paid leave if I'm vaccinated instead of the week admin leave like before) and if I test positive I have to use personal time (vaccinated people get admin leave, but aren't required to test) so I might be down for another week or three of sickness if I choose to have the emergency approved vaccine injected into my body. I was hoping masks were going to solve this combined with socially distancing but it seems as though my state can't seem to do this and all my staying home avoiding people was for nothing. really sucks. Especially when my office never require proof of vaccination to return, but working from home was no longer an option for me after 15 months. I had dreamed of doing all my workouts at home on a long lunch and now it's back to 2015 where I REALLY don't have time to care about anything but running. At least I'll have motivation (anger) to train.

          Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.

          VDOT 51

          5k19:35 | Marathon 2:59:10

          Andres1045


            I'm very jealous of everyone racing. I'm in such a funk right now with my running and really just want to get a race in, preferably in halfway decent conditions, regardless of how bad it would go, to turn things around. I have zero interest in racing in 80F/near 100% humidity. So even if there was a race near me, I'm assuming it wouldn't help much.

             

            JT - Yeah, that's some wild pacing! When you said you always avoided hilly races, I kind of assumed it was just some rollers here or there that you were trying to look out for. Those hills sound quite bad. Now I get it.

             

            JHudak - Everyone has their own style of racing a 5k, but feeling like your breathing is labored at the end of the first mile seems about right to me. I'd take it as a good sign that your legs felt good at that point. Not sure if you were doing 5k specific training, but the way you describe your race, seems like you're relatively close to nailing 5:50ish pace. Like your starting pace was okay, but you need some more 5x1000m to 3x1600m workouts to be able to hang on to that effort for a couple of more miles. 5:50 might be your ideal 5k pace, you just don't yet have the strength or endurance to get you to the end of that race yet.

             

            Cal - Yes, I now take back my "barely sub 3 in Boston" comment. You typically run a ~1:29 on pavement 3 or 4 weeks out from your 2:59 in CIM. So with plenty of more time, seems reasonable you'll end up with a 2:55 to 2:57 in Boston. But I am confused as to why you're sticking to that Styrd.

             

            JMac - Yes, 29:24 is not what I'd expect from you, but you have tons of time. Hopefully in the 10k you do better simply with a watch and real competition. But even if you don't, you'll still have plenty of time to turn things around.

            Upcoming races: Boston

            JTReeves


               

              DW - whenever I see people doing weird things (like running completely on their toes such that not even their mid-food hits the ground), I just assume they read it in Runner's World.

               

              JMac: I wouldn't worry about your fitness; I suspect with a watch you'd have been around a minute faster. See how that 10k goes in 6 wks or to put your mind at ease you can do a 5 mile or 8k time trial before that. And kudos to you for not being one of those tools that throw up all kinds of qualifiers about how they could have gone faster. BTW, yes, my son is now faster than me, at least at shorter distances. I think I still win anything 10k and up, for now...

               

              RP: Get vaccinated!!!

              2:52:16 (2018)

              Running Problem


              Problem Child

                 

                JMac: I wouldn't worry about your fitness; I suspect with a watch you'd have been around a minute faster. See how that 10k goes in 6 wks or to put your mind at ease you can do a 5 mile or 8k time trial before that. And kudos to you for not being one of those tools that throw up all kinds of qualifiers about how they could have gone faster. BTW, yes, my son is now faster than me, at least at shorter distances. I think I still win anything 10k and up, for now...

                 

                RP: Get vaccinated!!!

                 

                I will. As soon as it receives a full FDA approval. I have a problem trusting my Governor saying "it is just a sore arm" and knowing plenty of people who had much worse than a sore arm. I'm not really big on injecting experimental drugs into my body and being vaccinated doesn't mean I can't spread the virus to others. If everyone wants to stop the spread testing needs to be done for everyone. I'm especially not keen on injecting experimental drugs into my body when I'm training for an upcoming race just because the Governor couldn't reach his goal, and ignores the science of vaccinated people being the equivalent of asymptomatic carriers.

                Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.

                VDOT 51

                5k19:35 | Marathon 2:59:10

                CalBears


                   I will. As soon as it receives a full FDA approval. I have a problem trusting my Governor saying "it is just a sore arm" and knowing plenty of people who had much worse than a sore arm. I'm not really big on injecting experimental drugs into my body and being vaccinated doesn't mean I can't spread the virus to others. If everyone wants to stop the spread testing needs to be done for everyone. I'm especially not keen on injecting experimental drugs into my body when I'm training for an upcoming race just because the Governor couldn't reach his goal, and ignores the science of vaccinated people being the equivalent of asymptomatic carriers.

                   

                  My goodness - you are taking some cases about people you don't know, but you seem to ignore the cases from people you know. Training for a marathon? Big deal man... I am training too - I had my vaccination in April - I didn't notice any negative impact on my training (btw, I was vaccinated while I was training). And yes, I had a sore arm for a day - after first shot - nothing after second shot (I had Pfizer). Stop procrastinating, FFS!!! Full FDA approval? You mean, FDA has such a high respect from you? Nothing in the history of FDA was negative, it's such a well respected organization, right, totally independent, right? My god man, stop it, just stop it...

                  paces PRs - 5K - 5:48  /  10K - 6:05  /  HM - 6:14  /  FM - 6:26 per mile

                  OMR


                    jhudak:  Congrats on the 5K PR and sub-19!  And with good weather, you can easily knock a little more time off with better pacing, which has to be encouraging.  Regarding the homemade recovery drink, was there anything that prompted you to add the magnesium & potassium powders (meaning there was a known deficiency), or did you just experiment with it and found it seemed to be helpful?

                     

                    Dwave:  So did you wind up pulling anyone, even if it was just randomly because you had all of the power?!  ;-)  Nice week for you as well.  I have to wonder if longer legs are detrimental to technical trail running, because unlike road running, you are always negotiating your next landing, and it seems to me longer legs would require more effort.  (I'm clearly looking for excuses here, hahaha...)  Regarding the clockwise walker and your comment that there must be a website that says this, I thought I'd Google it.  One of the first websites to pop up said that if you want to meet people, you should walk clockwise since most everyone else will be going counterclockwise.  So, if that's what your walker was hoping for, I guess her wish came true!  On our college indoor track, walking lanes are designated as 1-3, and running 4-6, with directions alternating depending on the day of the week.  I think this is because it's a 200m oval, so turns are tight and frequent.  And most runners/walkers don't pay attention to the signs, anyway.  Runners tend to switch directions every mile or so, unless it is really busy.

                     

                    cal:  Well, I have a feeling your 2 x 3M is going to be "slightly faster" than mine, haha.  Nice half, especially with all of the gravel, and congrats on 1st AG!

                     

                    JT:  Thanks, the workout actually called for 2-3 x 3M, so the plan was initially for 3 x 3M.  But I could tell near the end of the second rep that the third one would be detrimental, as I was having a little trouble maintaining good form.  Congrats on the 8M, as well as to your son for getting 3rd in the 5K!

                     

                    flavio:  Nice cutback week.  Is there a crown I get to wear for "King of the Legs?"    How did that IMIMI workout feel...that looks like fun tough!

                     

                    Jmac:  Congrats on the win, and that sounds like it wound up being a good experiment, even if it was due to forgetting your watch.

                     

                    RP:  Welcome back to marathon training, do you think the RSV/cough might be related to air quality (if I recall, it has been pretty bad there)?

                    CalBears


                       

                      Cal: Nice job getting under 1:30! Do you plan on running any part of CIM by heart rate like you did for the half?JMA

                       

                      Well... At some point, I think, if you have a lot of experience running by HR, there is no difference between running by HR or by pace. I believe, if you know your HR history very well, you can judge your pace based on this - I also believe, HR is more objective than pace and running by HR gives you more chances to finish a race in one piece, without blowing it. Though, I also think it is still more an art than a science - when I run marathons, I always look at both, pace and HR, always. So, I had cases when I ran at 165 bpm and felt pretty bad and had few cases when I ran at 170+ bpm and felt OK. That makes me to believe that you can sustain different HRs depending on how your body feels on that particular day - but that is totally understandable, otherwise it would be too simple - just run by some HR number and get the result - as we know, either we run by HR or by pace, there is no guarantee. But again, I think, running by HR gives you more chances not to blow up your race. Re CIM - I do not know, I think, at this point, for any race that is not a goal race, I would not hesitate to run by HR, but for goal race, at least at this point, I would still use both, pace and HR.

                       

                      JMac - yes, I also think that for August I am in a much better shape than normally at this point - thanks to Mikkey and Boston in October Smile. But you know better than anybody else, we all want more. I also thought that your race pace was not very typical for you - I think I left a comment about it - but now, when I know you ran alone for the whole time and without watch (and without experience running without a watch) - just consider it a training run - and it's a win, in addition to everything else. I would maybe try to find some race nearby in next few weeks, with some stronger competition - just to wake up your competitive ego.

                       

                      Btw, when you said you ran your race by feel like me - I will have to correct you - yes, you ran by feel, but I ran it by HR, yes, I didnt my pace, but I always saw my HR and it was not just a number - I ran based on it for a lot of the race, like, in the beginning, when I saw my HR goes beyond 165, I would slow down a little, I gave myself more freedom later in the race, but I never allowed my HR go beyond 175 - now, when I think about it, maybe for HM next time I should run closer to 175 bpm - because, almost all second half of my HM I ran at 170+ and after the finish I didn't feel exhausted at all, I think I could give more during the race - but again, it was not an A race, it was more a checking point race.

                       

                      Andres - yep, that became my tradition - running slightly sub 1:30 HM few weeks out and then sub 3. Kind of funny. And yes, I hope to be a little bit faster than sub 3 in Boston, but we will see. This training cycle is also a little bit different than usual - I only hit 70 mpw once in the last 6 months, I think, so, I am not mileage monster anymore - so, there is a concern about endurance at this point.

                       

                      I totally understand your envy re racing - I raced finally on Saturday and man, whoever came up with the idea of virtual racing is seriously sick - there is no substitution for racing with people, awesome feeling, makes you extract something from inside of you that never comes up during training Smile Find something, even if it's hot, just go and feel it.

                       

                      Why I am sticking with Stryd - it's just another device with more information about your running and with people around that are kind of knowledgeable about it. I just wanna give it a chance for a cycle or two. You know Dan, the disappointed one, right? He liked it, he used it, he thinks there is some value in it - I respect Dan and could not ignore his opinion Smile I spent the money on the device - yeah, I am still in the window to return it, but I just will have it and use the numbers just as additional info, just like I use HR numbers.

                       

                      JTR - now I have a name for my training - "elevated HR training" Smile. The only thing, right now I do not anticipate to go beyond 70 mpw, mostly because I am lazy at this point, but things may change (for example, if Mikkey suddenly starts running 70+ mpw Smile

                       

                      OMR - will see tomorrow - I would love to run them at sub 6:30 pace avg, but that's not the point - the point is to see where I am at it.

                      paces PRs - 5K - 5:48  /  10K - 6:05  /  HM - 6:14  /  FM - 6:26 per mile

                      jhudak55


                        jhudak:  Congrats on the 5K PR and sub-19!  And with good weather, you can easily knock a little more time off with better pacing, which has to be encouraging.  Regarding the homemade recovery drink, was there anything that prompted you to add the magnesium & potassium powders (meaning there was a known deficiency), or did you just experiment with it and found it seemed to be helpful?

                         

                        The mix I make is basically a copy of LMNT with Gatorade for some added carbs and flavor. If I hear about anything that might be beneficial I'd add it in and do some experimentation at that point.

                        Running Problem


                        Problem Child

                          JMac thanks for not being a winner and upset with your performance or the course. Last thing I like hearing is how the course was short, not ideal, the winner just didn't run as hard as me, or pretty much most elite problems. It's really annoying hearing a guy beat my by a minute or three in a 5k talk about how the entire day was a dumpster fire. Best of luck getting back into PR shape. I think you could do it.

                          Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.

                          VDOT 51

                          5k19:35 | Marathon 2:59:10

                          JMac11


                          Milkman

                            Andres - nothing lights my fire like running a shitty race. That may help you too, even in hot conditions. The MPR adjustment table (first page of sub 1:30 thread) is shockingly accurate for me. It helps you understand what fitness you're in for very hot races. Just run some 5Ks, wouldn't go longer than that in your weather. I strongly agree with Cal that there is nothing like it. Also, sometimes you have to race to remember how to race. The first couple will be very rusty. Forget the time. Just get out there and get the dust off.

                             

                            JT - have you ever run Cow Harbor? That's my next 10K. Seems like one of the most premier 10Ks in the tri-state area, outside of the UAE 10K. Some guy asked me if I was running it and said it's the best run race he's ever done (and he was 80+ so he knows his stuff). No idea if there is a ferry to make it easier.

                             

                            Jhud - we had a chat over on sub 1:30 about LMNT. I find it to be too salty, it actually made me more thirsty after drinking it. I just need to dilute it more. But you're taking it for recovery so it might not matter.

                            5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:15:00 (10/21)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

                             

                            Next Race: Unknown 

                            JTReeves


                               

                              JT - have you ever run Cow Harbor? That's my next 10K. Seems like one of the most premier 10Ks in the tri-state area, outside of the UAE 10K. Some guy asked me if I was running it and said it's the best run race he's ever done (and he was 80+ so he knows his stuff). No idea if there is a ferry to make it easier.

                               

                              No, have not run it but I agree, it looks great (just read up on it a bit). I have a feeling Nimmals probably ran it, if you are still in touch with him you could ask him about it. I'm tempted to run it; decent 10ks are few and far between in CT unfortunately.

                              2:52:16 (2018)

                              JMac11


                              Milkman

                                 

                                No, have not run it but I agree, it looks great (just read up on it a bit). I have a feeling Nimmals probably ran it, if you are still in touch with him you could ask him about it. I'm tempted to run it; decent 10ks are few and far between in CT unfortunately.

                                 

                                He has. I remember him running it in 2019. I tried contacting him on Strava to no avail, may try again. Pretty crazy that sub 35 doesn't even get you top 30, and I remember the 19 race not being ideal weather.

                                 

                                I also agree on 10Ks. They're very difficult to find. 5Ks and Half Marathons galore around here, but just a few true 10Ks. I feel like it's a distance most people don't care about. Too long for casual charity runners and not long enough for the casual distance runner who wants to complete their first half or full.

                                5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:15:00 (10/21)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

                                 

                                Next Race: Unknown