2021 Sub 3:00 Marathon Thread (Read 389 times)

Running Problem


Problem Child

    I think I saw your PCT hike(s) actually show up. CalFire don't care. I read an article about the PCT saying it's pretty impossible to do it anymore due to closures and climate change.

    https://www.sfgate.com/california-parks/article/Pacific-Crest-Trail-thru-hike-climate-change-fires-16364571.php

    Fire closures are the "new normal." Unfortunately California won't manage it's forests responsibly and waits for mother nature to clear it out for them. Much less expensive when the Federal Government pays for the damages than it is to actively clear areas to prevent hundreds of thousands of acres from being destroyed.

    Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.

    VDOT 51

    5k19:35 | Marathon 2:59:10

    pepperjack


    pie man

      Well, it's mostly federal land in CA that isn't getting managed as best as it could.

      11:11 3,000 (recent)

      JMac11


      Milkman

        Has anyone found they get less tolerant of heat as they get older? I'm having a hard time even getting my 80 minute easy runs done this year in 160 TDP conditions. Yes, that's bad, but I used to only struggle with workouts at that kind of temp. I wonder if there's any evidence that your heat tolerance gets worse as you get older, or any experience you guys have had.

        5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:15:28 (3/20)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

         

        Next Race: Suffolk County Half (10/24)

        JTReeves


          Has anyone found they get less tolerant of heat as they get older? I'm having a hard time even getting my 80 minute easy runs done this year in 160 TDP conditions. Yes, that's bad, but I used to only struggle with workouts at that kind of temp. I wonder if there's any evidence that your heat tolerance gets worse as you get older, or any experience you guys have had.

           

          I don't think it gets any better as you get older. I started running (again) at 38, and was running after work in the heat of the day like you do. No way I could do that now, I can't even imagine it. When the summer weather is at its worst like this week it's tough enough in the early morning. At least the temps are only in the 70s then and the sunlight is minimal.

          2:52:16 (2018)

          OMR


            Has anyone found they get less tolerant of heat as they get older? I'm having a hard time even getting my 80 minute easy runs done this year in 160 TDP conditions. Yes, that's bad, but I used to only struggle with workouts at that kind of temp. I wonder if there's any evidence that your heat tolerance gets worse as you get older, or any experience you guys have had.

             

            Regarding research, this abstract states “Recent studies suggest that middle-aged and older men and women may be more susceptible to greater heat strain at physiologically significant levels of dehydration than those younger. However, additional research appears necessary to support this hypothesis. When the effects of chronic debilitating diseases in the elderly (64 years old and older) are minimized, their heat tolerance and thermoregulatory responses are comparable to those of younger individuals.”

             

            My personal experience is that over the last 5 or so years (I’m 57 and started running/getting back into shape in 2010), I seem to have become significantly less tolerant of heat, and I don’t seem to acclimate as well as I used to.  And I doubt there are any studies that compare an individual’s heat tolerance from when they were 20 to when they were 55.

            flavio1980


            Intl. correspondent

              GOAT discussion - it seems quite clear that Kenenisa is not as disciplined as Eliud.

              Eliud also always says and does the right things, like Mr Flanders in the Simpsons.

              But that bears fruits.

              Kenenisa gets distracted with tons of other stuff and never trains properly and is always DNS and DNF’ing races.

              But when he’s game it’s a beauty to watch.

              I agree with Darkwave, greatest of the era is a best way to state it.

              Just like Pelé was the best of his era (70’s) and Maradona was the best of the 90’s.

               

              OMR - No, I’ll wait quite a bit of time to check my blood pressure again. Having your blood pressure checked elevates your blood pressure Big grin

               

              Jmac - So why do you get these black toenails, is it because your shoes are too narrow? Or too low in the toe area?

               

              me - I'm having a very boring week. Whoooo hoooooo!!!!!

              PRs: 1500 4:51 2019 - 5K 17:56 2021 HM 1:21:59 2021

              Up next: Rest and recover

              Tool to generate Strava weekly


              Elite Jogger

                 

                Just like Pelé George Best was the best of his era (70’s) and Maradona was the best of the 90’s.

                 

                 

                FYP. 

                5k - 17:53 (4/19)   10k - 37:53 (11/18)   Half - 1:23:18 (4/19)   Full - 2:50:43 (4/19)

                Andres1045


                  Has anyone found they get less tolerant of heat as they get older? I'm having a hard time even getting my 80 minute easy runs done this year in 160 TDP conditions. Yes, that's bad, but I used to only struggle with workouts at that kind of temp. I wonder if there's any evidence that your heat tolerance gets worse as you get older, or any experience you guys have had.

                  Yes.

                   

                  Every summer it feels worse and worse. At this point it's ridiculous. My normal "chill" pace in the summer is around 8 to 8:15. I can do 8 to 12 miles at around that pace and be totally fine. This summer the few times I've tried to run over 10 miles at that pace, I start approaching HMP heart rate. That's just insane. I sweat a ton, so get dehydrated quickly (even with frequent water fountain stops). With the dehydration, I get huge amounts of drift. But this is more than I've ever experienced in the past.

                   

                  I started running more seriously in the summer of 2014, at the age of 35. Summers were always bad, but it just seems like this summer it's become unbearable.

                   

                  In High School we would always have a soccer tournament in August. This is in the Houston/Galveston area where it's typical for the temps to be approaching 100F and extremely humid. I could go all out for 90 minutes, three times a day in back to back days. The thought of that now makes me vomit.

                  Upcoming races: Boston

                  Running Problem


                  Problem Child

                    Has anyone found they get less tolerant of heat as they get older? I'm having a hard time even getting my 80 minute easy runs done this year in 160 TDP conditions. Yes, that's bad, but I used to only struggle with workouts at that kind of temp. I wonder if there's any evidence that your heat tolerance gets worse as you get older, or any experience you guys have had.

                     

                    I think ANYONE would have trouble getting a run done in those conditions. Even with slowing down. I wouldn't think heat tolerance gets worse, but it might max out at some point. I think the Olympic marathon was in a 164 TDP and they're pretty elite runners. Is there a point where it starts getting REALLY bad? Does 60 minutes feel fine and the last 20 are horrible, or is it from 20 minutes in until you finish?

                    Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.

                    VDOT 51

                    5k19:35 | Marathon 2:59:10

                    JMac11


                    Milkman

                      That was reassuring, thanks folks.

                       

                      OMR - thanks for the link. The data seemed all over the place, they said middle-aged aerobically fit individuals may be okay (or even better than younger!). Probably a hard study to really do well.

                       

                      JT - I keep trying morning, and keep having gastro issues. I don't have it in me to wake up at 4 am to let things work through my system before heading out the door at 5:30. I'm now realizing though that 4:30 PM runs are NOT possible in this heat. That may be a complicating factor compared to 2 years ago: I'm doing more runs between 4 and 6 PM because I'm working at home, instead of my usual 6-8 PM. The sun is beating you down so much more from 4-6 even if the temps are fairly comparable.

                       

                      Andres - no idea how you do it in TX. At least here, we get a few days break at a time. This summer has actually been very nice for us, which might also be why I'm doing poorly. You're right about being a kid though, I could run all day in the summer with just some water here and there.

                       

                      RP - don't think it ever got to 164 TDP in the marathon, but that's probably besides the point as I can't imagine completing a marathon above 140 TDP. And it's just at the end of the run, the first 5 miles are very easy.

                      5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:15:28 (3/20)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

                       

                      Next Race: Suffolk County Half (10/24)

                      SteveChCh


                      Hot Weather Complainer

                        JMac - Could it be that towards the end of summer heat fatigue is cumulative?  I'm getting sick of cold weather running even though it's my preference.  I'm assuming it's after 4 months of it I'm over it, rather than it's me getting less tolerant.

                         

                        Flavio - Isn't Maradona the 80s GOAT?  I'm trying to think who the 90s GOAT would be.  Maybe I'm having a brain fade but most other decades there are obvious contenders.  I guess Zidane played a lot of his career in the 90s.  I have a Dennis Bergkamp bias as an Arsenal fan.  Oh, the original Ronaldo gets a mention I guess.

                        PB:  Christchurch 2016 1:29.25

                        Recent Races:    Queenstown Half-Marathon (trail) November 21, 2020 1:35.11 Cherry Blossom Half-Marathon, September 13, 2020 1:33:38 Half-Marathon Time Trial May 31, 2020 1:31.51  

                        Race plan:  Selwyn Running Festival Half-Marathon November 7 (Target: PR), Christchurch Marathon April 10, 2022 (Target: Sub 3:20 and no cancellation)

                        CalBears


                           

                          Flavio - Isn't Maradona the 80s GOAT?  I'm trying to think you the 90s GOAT would be.  Maybe I'm having a brain fade but most other decades there are obvious contenders.  I guess Zidane played a lot of his career in the 90s.  I have a Dennis Bergkamp bias as an Arsenal fan.  Oh, the original Ronaldo gets a mention I guess.

                           

                          I do not know how people can argue about GOAT of the 90s! It cannot be Maradona - his last decent showing in 90s was in 1990 World Cup (where he was ejected from)  and championship in Napoli but it is not enough to become a GOAT of the decade. There are only two candidates, maybe three - but nobody can touch Ronaldo, not the whiny guy from Portugal, not - the original one - from Brazil - he was THE FORCE! Or you can pick up Zidane with the same confidence - the man was THE ARTIST! You can also think about Peter Schmeichel - the guy has won Euro gold for Denmark and he was THE WALL in Man United all the time he played there. Honorary mentions are Baggio, Roberto Carlos, Thierry Henry, Del Pierro and Bergkamp.

                           

                          JMac - flavio is 100% right - if you have constant issue with your toenails, you need to up your shoes by half a size - period. You should not have black toenails in training - if you do, see my advice re shoe size. Don't be stubborn - look at the facts not your habits...

                          paces PRs - 5K - 5:48  /  10K - 6:05  /  HM - 6:14  /  FM - 6:26 per mile

                          flavio1980


                          Intl. correspondent

                            Sorry Mikkey, George Best was not the best. Also, who the f*** is that LOL

                             

                            Steve - you’re right. Ronaldo is def. 90’s goat contender. Maradona was the top dog of the 80's.

                             

                             

                             JMac - flavio is 100% right - if you have constant issue with your toenails, you need to up your shoes by half a size - period. You should not have black toenails in training - if you do, see my advice re shoe size. Don't be stubborn - look at the facts not your habits...

                             

                            Not necessarily. There's one more dimension here. Toe box width and height. Many of NIke shoes are narrow and have a very low toebox which is great for people with feet like swimming feet fins.

                            Others have a taller toebox and then there's Altras that have both taller toebox and wider toebox.

                            It could be that his toe is being compressed from above (friction) or that the shoe is too narrow and the toes are being compressed in the middle.

                            This image explains it better:

                            Foot shape toe box

                            PRs: 1500 4:51 2019 - 5K 17:56 2021 HM 1:21:59 2021

                            Up next: Rest and recover

                            Tool to generate Strava weekly

                            CalBears


                               

                              Not necessarily. There's one more dimension here. Toe box width and height. Many of NIke shoes are narrow and have a very low toebox which is great for people with feet like swimming feet fins.

                              Others have a taller toebox and then there's Altras that have both taller toebox and wider toebox.

                              It could be that his toe is being compressed from above (friction) or that the shoe is too narrow and the toes are being compressed in the middle.

                              This image explains it better:

                               

                              I was thinking about that, but I would say wider vs narrower is when you usually get blisters, not black toenails. It definitely adds, especially for longer workouts, but sizing is the main reason (though, yeah, height of the toebox is also important, but sizing up usually eliminates that). Plus, for example, my feet would feel totally great, no wider shoes needed, but after I run 10 miles downhill straight, I might get a black toenail, not because of width, but because my toes are banging the shoe toe when running downhill - simulating smaller shoe size.

                              paces PRs - 5K - 5:48  /  10K - 6:05  /  HM - 6:14  /  FM - 6:26 per mile

                              OMR


                                OMR - The data seemed all over the place [...] Probably a hard study to really do well.

                                 

                                 

                                I agree.  Separately, I also have difficulty getting out early in the morning due to gastro issues...and also putting more of a priority on sleep.

                                 

                                flavio:  After my health event last summer, I started taking my blood pressure regularly (initially at the request of my cardiologist).  At some point, I started making a game of it, guessing what my b.p. was based on how I felt.  Much like getting a feel for one's heart rate or level of exertion, I can now predict with a fair degree of accuracy what my blood pressure is.  So, you just need to take your blood pressure more often!  ;-)