2021 Sub 3:00 Marathon Thread (Read 387 times)

darkwave


Mother of Cats

     

     

    In 8 weeks time it will be a busy weekend, so many races. Marby, Flavio, Cal and myself are all running, plus a lot of people I know (not on here) are running either Boston, Chicago, or Hartford. Will be fun to track everyone!

     

    I think that is insane.  This summer has gone by fast.

     

    Re Hot weather complaining - I'm late on this one, but I thought it was commonly accepted that ability to tolerate both heat and cold diminishes with age.  I also sadly learned that the ability to tolerate the g-forces on roller coasters also diminishes with age.  That one made me really sad.

     

    Marby - that Thursday workout looks huge.  I'm guessing it started at marathon pace, then dropped to tempo, and then dropped further - still a lot of work.

     

    OMR - not all runs are of equal value, so it's good that you got the important ones in.  WRT shingles vaccine, my sig other had his second shot last weekend and had a hard time with it too.

     

    Calbears - solid week.  I also have given up on the miles/KM conversion.

     

    JTReeves  - that Sunday run was quite nice.  Re: weather - I keep telling myself that in about 3 months we'll be back in tights.

    Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

     

    And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

    darkwave


    Mother of Cats

      My week:

       

      58 miles running, 3 hours pool-running, and 1500 yards swimming.
      M: 90 minutes pool-running, and upper body weights/core.
      T: 11 miles, including a track workout of 2000, 800, 2x400. Splits were 8:07, 3:05, and then 91 and 89  (was supposed to be 2k, 3x800, 2x400, but I sat out the second two 800s since I was overheating). 5:00 recovery between the 2K and the 800; full recovery for 400s. Followed with leg strengthwork and 500 yards recovery swimming.
      W: 9 miles easy outside (9:37) plus drills and four strides, then streaming yoga, and then 3 miles very easy on treadmill (9:35).
      Th: 90 minutes pool-running and upper body weights/core.
      Fr: 10 miles on the treadmill with a tempo workout of 4x5 minutes, 2x3 minutes, 4 minutes at tempo effort (7:09 pace); all with 1 minute jog recovery in between. Then did leg strengthwork and 500 yards recovery swimming.
      Sa: 10.5 miles very easy outside (9:36) followed by streaming yoga.
      Su: 14 miles progressive, split as first 5 averaging 9:05 pace, next 4 averaging 8:07, next 5 averaging 7:15, and then a half-mile jog. Followed with leg strengthwork and 500 yards recovery swimming.

       

      (if you're wondering about the closeness in pace of my Friday tempo intervals versus end of Sunday long run, a lot of it is differences in temperature - my home gym was really warm and stuffy on Friday, through still better than outside that morning, while we had decent weather on Sunday.  Sunday's long run was also slightly uphill on the way out, downhill on the way back.)

       

      I've been on the Lialda for about 10 days, and I really think it's helping (it's an anti-inflammatory medication for my large intestine).  My energy levels are rising, and I feel much better when I get out of bed each morning.  Sunday's long run felt good - in control, smooth, could have gone longer at that pace.  It's been a while since I felt like that.  I'm not getting out of breath as much on hills anymore either.  And a lot of the discomfort I've had in my abdomen is easing.  I'm pretty happy about all this.  The Lialda is a very safe medication that I can be on long term, so maybe this is how I roll from now on.

       

       

       

      In other news, on Tuesday I had an MRI of my small intestines. Good news is that it showed no inflammation or anything else concerning. It did show that I still had food in my stomach despite having followed the instructions on fasting for 4+ hours before the exam. So doctor and I are going to chat on whether that needs any more follow-up. But looks like I don't have Crohns, so that's great news.

       

      Marby- I think it was you asking about dietary modifications?  (I think CK asked as well).  So diet doesn't cause what I have, but it can aggravate it.  I'm already pretty limited - for years I've avoided gluten, lactose, nuts, artificial sweeteners, and soy, since they all set me off.  More recently I've had to cut out legumes (peas, beans) and raw vegetables, and doctor has now told me to avoid citrus, all alcohol, and lettuce.  So not sure how much more I can limit stuff.  I basically live off of lean meats, cooked veggies, brown rice, corn tortillas, coconut milk products, and gluten free cereals and snacks.  And guacamole.  Mmm...guacamole.

      Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

       

      And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

      OMR


        cal:  I got the shingles vaccine, not a dose because I had shingles.  My paces were probably a little faster because of all of the rest days.  Solid week for you, with a good long run after the Wednesday-Saturday miles.

         

        JT:  Probably a wise call to cut out the midweek workout, and that's a speedy LR to close out the week!  And I agree, it's good to see some races coming up!

         

        Dwave:  How long between shots for your s.o.?  The nurse for my first dose said people tend to have a less severe reaction if they wait a while.  I had my first dose in early March, so it was about 5.5 months.  Regarding tights, I'm not quite ready for that yet (because it means thermal pants aren't far behind), but I wouldn't mind running in the rain.  Glad to hear you're feeling better, and that you don't have Crohn's.  Regarding your Friday run, that's an interesting way to break up the tempo work!

        darkwave


        Mother of Cats

          OMR - I don't know the exact gap between shots (sig other is sleeping right now, so I can't ask him).  But I recall the first one being some time last fall, and the second one being last weekend.  So a bigger gap than you had.

           

          Regarding the tempo - that was actually out of Daniels - he says cruise intervals can be done at the same pace as tempos, but with 1 minute jogs after every mile/5 minutes - the idea is that the 1 minute jog is short enough that your heart rate won't drop much.

           

          I thought it worked well.  My tempo HR range is between 172-178, and doing this workout, I got a lot of work done within that range.   (here's the Garmin report, with the workout being from about 35 minutes to 1:10 minutes).  Had I just gone for 20 minutes straight, my HR would have risen above that range.

           

          In cooler weather, I'd prefer to go for a straight tempo - you get it done quicker and you also benefit from having to concentrate for that long at once.

          Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

           

          And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

          darkwave


          Mother of Cats

            t I wouldn't mind running in the rain.  

             

            Come down here - we've been having some epic rainstorms/flooding (though mostly in the evening or overnight)

            Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

             

            And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

            JMac11


            Milkman

              Marby - what is "ME" pace?

               

              OMR - how does the shingles vaccine compare to the COVID vaccine in terms of side effects?

               

              Cal - have noticed a big improvement in your runs lately. How is the faster paced easy runs going vs your usual?

               

              JT - Monday through Wednesday was just brutal here. When I ran on Sunday with temps at 80 and DP at 55, it actually felt pretty close to perfect conditions, which shows you how bad it was early in the week. Your Sunday run was nuts. I don't think I've ever done anything that hard and I've done crazy JD shit! I hope you are peaking at the right time here.

               

              DW - I'm surprised you jog those 1 minute recoveries, JD generally does them as walking rests (not that you're directly following him, just saying because you referenced him). I also think the point of cruise intervals (this is more for OMR) generally is you can get a lot more work in at that pace vs. straight tempos, at least in Daniels's world of LT workouts. You can generally do 3-4 miles at straight LT pace, but not more. If you break it up into 2 mile intervals, you can often do 6 or 8 miles of work at that pace.

               

              Me - first real week of training for CIM. Getting used to the 1:20 easy runs instead of 1:00, but otherwise, it feels good to be back at real marathon training. Bumping up to 70 miles hasn't been too difficult. I really thought my legs would feel worse than they do given how quickly I ramped up from only 15-20 miles per week in March up til now, but I guess your body really does remember what it was like to run these amounts. My Thursday workout went better than expected and Sunday felt great in the cooler temps. Long way to go to get into PR shape, but it's a good start to show that I'm not in terrible shape. Just going to have to stay pretty consistent over the next 16 weeks.

               

               

              Weekly for period: From: 08/09/2021 To 08/15/2021

              Date Name mi km Duration Avg/mi Avg/km Elevation Gain
              in ft
              08/09 Evening Run 6.28 10.11 00:54:20 08:39 05:22 217
              08/10 Afternoon Run 10.31 16.59 01:22:48 08:02 04:59 413
              08/11 Afternoon Run 9.25 14.88 01:14:15 08:02 04:59 361
              08/12 6E + 4x1000I + 6x400R + 2E 14.43 23.23 01:57:00 08:06 05:02 384
              08/14 Lunch Run 10.62 17.09 01:26:46 08:10 05:05 361
              08/15 2E + 2T + 8E + 2T + 2E 16.01 25.75 01:55:50 07:14 04:30 594

              Total distance: 66.91mi

              5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:15:28 (3/20)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

               

              Next Race: Suffolk County Half (10/24)

              jhudak55


                DW: That is a fantastic feeling when a long run feels just right. Seems like you got something figured out!

                 

                Marby: Nice week. Looks like you had quite a bit of elevation on the long run as well. I'm sure that contributed.

                 

                OMR: I'd say that's a pretty good week considering all the issues.

                 

                Cal: You are really building the mileage. What do you expect your peak mileage to be this block?

                 

                JT: As many others have said, excellent long run! That one had to feel good.

                 

                Jmac: I've also suffered a few lost toenails, but never realized it could have been from foot swelling in summer running.

                 

                My week:

                56.6 miles

                M: 3.1 miles recovery (10:24)

                T: 6.5 miles with 5 x 3 minute hills

                W: 11 miles aerobic (8:10)

                T: 11 miles easy (8:47)

                F: Off

                S: 15 mile long run (8:18)

                S: 10 miles easy (8:44)

                 

                This was a drop week, as such everything was kept a little easier and shorter. Everything went well and I'm ready to push the mileage over 70 MPW going forward until the taper.

                 

                Tuesday's workout was the first time I successfully ran a longer hill workout without going out too fast. I was able to keep it under control and steadily pick up the pace. Saturday's long run felt really good. I was planning on going pretty easy, but was worried that heat/humidity might make it a bit harder than I wanted. Surprisingly, I had to hold back for the large majority of the run, which I was able to execute.

                JTReeves


                  Darkwave: That's great news that you're feeling better and also about Crohn's.

                   

                  JMac: Nice week; your T pace is already looking good to me, though I know it will get much faster for you. Looks like the weather will go to crap again by Wednesday, with dew points at or above 70 for the next week. Oh well, what doesn't kill us...  Regarding my LR, I didn't think it was that big a deal, just 2 x 4 at M heart rate, and like I said, the first 4 mi block was quick due to being substantially downhill. Because of that the HR was on the low side of MP. For the second block it creeped up to the high end. Anyway, I think you've had workouts much more brutal than that! Long equations with lots of T and M components.

                   

                  jhudak: Glad the recovery week went to plan and the hill workout was on target.

                  2:52:16 (2018)

                  flavio1980


                  Intl. correspondent

                    Cal - Monster week!

                     

                    JT - awesome long run!

                     

                    DW - I’m glad to hear the medication is working

                     

                    Jmac - I’m happy to see Jack Daniel’s character soup in your weeklies again

                     

                    me - Relatively nice week except for the long run. 18 planned had to pull the plug at 12 due to back pain. I seem to be better now after taking some muscle relaxant.

                    Weekly for period: From: 08/09/2021 To 08/15/2021

                    Date Name mi km Duration Avg/mi Avg/km Elevation Gain
                    in ft
                    08/10 Slow down Charlie Brown - 7mi ez +6x30s uphill + 6x30s downhill 8.70 14.00 01:30:07 10:21 06:26 102
                    08/11 Run by feeling 8.01 12.88 01:05:09 08:08 05:03 131
                    08/12 5x(4' Hard + 2'E) + 10x(200m + 45sE) 9.17 14.76 01:11:32 07:48 04:51 36
                    08/13 Morning Run 8.01 12.88 01:06:59 08:22 05:12 259
                    08/14 6mi ez + 4 downhill strides + 3 hard flat strides 6.40 10.30 00:53:14 08:19 05:10 79
                    08/15 Back pain ☹️ 12.19 19.61 01:40:06 08:13 05:06 423

                    Total distance: 52.48mi

                    PRs: 1500 4:51 2019 - 5K 17:56 2021 HM 1:21:59 2021

                    Up next: Rest and recover

                    Tool to generate Strava weekly

                    darkwave


                    Mother of Cats

                       

                       

                      DW - I'm surprised you jog those 1 minute recoveries, JD generally does them as walking rests (not that you're directly following him, just saying because you referenced him). I also think the point of cruise intervals (this is more for OMR) generally is you can get a lot more work in at that pace vs. straight tempos, at least in Daniels's world of LT workouts. You can generally do 3-4 miles at straight LT pace, but not more. If you break it up into 2 mile intervals, you can often do 6 or 8 miles of work at that pace.

                       

                      Re: the recoveries - I don't remember Daniels specifying walking/jogging in his book (I'll have to review).  I did find this article supposedly written by him where he specifies recovery jogs.    For me, I find it easier to shift between running/jogging than running/walking.

                      Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

                       

                      And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

                      OMR


                        Dwave:  Regarding the gap between shots, the nurse who administered my first dose said I needed to get the second one within six months...any longer and they wouldn't give it to me.

                         

                        JMac/Dwave:  I have the 2nd edition of Daniels, and while I do remember seeing tempo intervals with a short recovery (I seem to recall jogs, not walks, but that was a while ago, and my memory isn't that great), I don't recall seeing that particular type of a breakdown; 5 minutes, then 3 minutes, then 4.  It seems like a good way to accomplish 30 minutes of tempo work.  I do remember doing some of those workouts like Jmac's Sunday LR.  (Oh, to be young, hahaha.)

                         

                        JMac:  Nice week.  Regarding shingles vs. covid vaccines, I had Pfizer, and my only side effect was a sore arm for a couple of days for both doses.  Same goes for the first round of the shingles vaccine.  So just that second shingles shot seems to have gotten to me.  I felt completely wiped out by the end of the day, and had a pretty bad case of the chills.  Felt completely fine the next morning, though.

                         

                        jhudak:  Congrats on nailing the effort on that hill workout!

                         

                        flavio:  Everything is better after taking a muscle relaxant!    Bummer on the back pain, hope it is short-lived.

                         

                        Regarding complaining about the heat/humidity, this morning's run was 85 minutes with a 20 minute "fast finish."  By the end of the run, the temp was around 80, the dew point in the low/mid 60s.  So not horrible (one would think).  I think I lost at least 7 pounds.  Our long-term forecast shows a front coming through later this week, followed by a long stretch of highs in the upper 70s/low 80s (not this upper 90s bulls***).  Can't wait!

                        darkwave


                        Mother of Cats

                           

                           

                          JMac/Dwave:  I have the 2nd edition of Daniels, and while I do remember seeing tempo intervals with a short recovery (I seem to recall jogs, not walks, but that was a while ago, and my memory isn't that great), I don't recall seeing that particular type of a breakdown; 5 minutes, then 3 minutes, then 4.  It seems like a good way to accomplish 30 minutes of tempo work.  I do remember doing some of those workouts like Jmac's Sunday LR.  (Oh, to be young, hahaha.)

                           

                          That breakdown wasn't JD.  JD says 5 minutes with 1 minute recovery.  I programmed my watch for 7 of those 5minute intervals, thinking I'd see how many I could do.  By the fourth, my HR was climbing to the very top of my tempo HR range (which matched perceived effort), so I decided to shorten the other intervals to 3 minutes to avoid getting out of tempo range.  Then I stretched the last one to 4 minutes so that I hit 30 minutes total 'cuz I'm neurotic that way.

                           

                          So...had I done 7 x 5 minutes with 1 minute jog, that would have been JD.  But I shortened the latter part of the workout a bit to keep it in what I thought was the correct effort range.

                          Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

                           

                          And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

                          OMR


                            Ah, got it.  In my world, it would have been OK to stop at a total of 29 minutes, or to extend it to 31 minutes, because...prime numbers.

                            JMac11


                            Milkman

                              DW - the interpretation from Daniels is that he specifies all of the other rest as jog recoveries, but does not for cruise intervals. So generally people look at as walking. If it helps you complete the workout easier by jogging, go for it. My guess is it's so short of a recovery it doesn't really matter.

                               

                              OMR - I've discovered for me dew point matters more than temp. I'll take a 90 degree day with dew points at 55 over 80 and 65 any day of the week.

                               

                              JT - maybe you just blasted the first block, but I thought you were running closer to T than M pace.

                               

                              Fall Marathons - New Jersey marathon just cancelled due to COVID. I am now officially back into worry mode. I cannot believe we are at this point. I'm especially worried about CIM given California is one of the more restrictive states.

                              5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:15:28 (3/20)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

                               

                              Next Race: Suffolk County Half (10/24)

                              Marby


                                OMR: Good to get the quality in there. Dietary changes always intrigue me.

                                 

                                Cal: Your ‘kilometrage’ is really getting up there.  I wouldn’t say it’s lazy not converting… I find it equal parts quaint and annoying. Majority of runners here, I’ll give you that but 1% of the world’s countries and 5% population.  When you are done pleasuring yourselves the rest of the world is ready to play.

                                 

                                JTR: It will be a busy weekend – marathons across 5 countries and 3 continents.  Must have been good to stretch out on Sunday.

                                 

                                Darkwave: Good news re Crohns and recent improvement. That’s a long and depressing list of triggers.  We had a glut of avo and they have been a third of usual price… nom nom.

                                 

                                JMac: That’s a great start to the CIM block. 
                                I didn’t know what to call it, ME was for marathon effort.  I felt like I needed to be spending time at goal marathon pace instead and was disappointed that didn’t happen. I would have called that MP.  Whatever you call it, my coach is happy. I tend to run a little bit longer or faster than everything he has set and this one was a teeny bit slower.

                                 

                                Jhud: Sounds like the drop has you primed and ready to strike.

                                 

                                Flavio: Nice week indeed, hope the back stays relaxed.

                                 

                                Lockdown: 20-30 cases per day for the last week has prompted a 9pm-5am curfew!  Fark!

                                10K 41:35 (2016), Half 1:27:01 (2015) Marathon 3:02:48 (2015)