2021 Sub 3:00 Marathon Thread (Read 421 times)

jhudak55


    JT: I hadn't really thought about backup marathons until you mentioned it. I think I'm going to register for Northern Ohio as a backup and possibly Harrisburg. Hopefully I won't need them...

     

    RP: Really rough conditions to run in. Are you able to go to a gym with a treadmill to train on?

     

    Marby: That Thursday workout sounds brutal. Nice job getting all of that quality in.

     

    Cal: Solid week. The cut down on the mile workout must have felt nice, especially getting sub 6 on the last rep.

     

    DW: Glad to hear that things keep improving regarding your energy levels! Have you actually registered for all of the races you have listed in your racing plans? If so, are you able to defer registrations for the races you won't end up running?

     

    OMR: Nice job on the half marathon effort within a long run. It always feels good to really get moving on the longest run of the week.

     

    Flavio: Sorry about all of the health issues recently. Hopefully the time off takes care of everything.

    JMac11


    Milkman

      DW - glad you came to the same interpretation I did (and others have based on what I've read on). He specifies in every other workout a "jog" recovery, e.g. V02 and mile pace work, but doesn't for any LT work. I did look at his second edition again last night and he has an entire section about what to do for rest between I pace (4Kish) intervals, where he specifically says you should jog in order to clear the lactate building up in your legs. Given cruise intervals, in theory, should be at a pace just below building up lactate significantly (unlike V02 max), it doesn't seem necessary to jog.

       

      Having said all of that, I really think it's a "up to you" situation. I really like the walking. Cruise intervals are incredibly demanding in my opinion and getting that 1 minute walk per 5 minute of work helps my mind reset and get ready for the next one.

       

      I agree though regarding standing. That would make the workout more demanding in my opinion. I just like a nice slow walk recovery.

      5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:15:00 (10/21)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

       

      Next Race: Unknown 

      Running Problem


      Problem Child

        Jhudak I'm not a member of a gym and I don't enjoy treadmills much.

         

        Cal yeah I forgot the Paradise fire sent smoke your way. I only remember it sending smoke to family I had in Oroville. EPA says 269. Purple Air has it at 420+ and I see a visible haze between me and the houses behind mine. I'm not willing to get in the car and drive 2 hours every day for a run. Before OR after work. The WORST part is being stuck inside with the kid who WANTS to go outside, but can't. I'd take a COVID 19 pandemic lockdown with outside activities allowed with a mask over smoke. We don't even have the 15-30 mph winds "not so uncommon to this area" to blow the smoke away. It's just sitting here with no motivation to leave.

         

        My week.

        Not bad OVERALL for what it was. Thursday's run was an attempt at finding marathon fitness. I've accepted I need to train where I'm at and let race day be race day. Training to be in a sub 3 shape right now will lead to bigger problems, and using my 5k time from Memorial Day doesn't point to a sub 3. 3:07 at best. Tuesday's speed work seemed to go better. Possibly from the 5k training plan focusing a lot on speed. Sunday's run was in an AQI of about 155. I wanted to go farther but I was starting to get stomach pains that wouldn't go away, and a few other indicators of smoke being a problem. Legs felt OKAY and I could tell I'd been doing some workouts but nothing I'd end a long run over. I got what I could and thankfully went out because the air quality got worse hours later. EPA says it is 269 (EPA SCALE) Purple air said 400+ for the 1 hour average. I'm trusting purple air on the actual air quality. This is 100% based on looking outside and thinking "I'd call it hazardous if the neighbor's tree has a haze in front of it, but maybe EPA knows better."

         

        Weekly for period: From: 08/16/2021 To 08/22/2021

        Date Name mi km Duration Avg/mi Avg/km Elevation Gain
        in ft
        08/16 That time red eyes, a dry throat, and a headache are due to Covi…aaaaalifornia. 8.11 13.04 01:10:59 08:45 05:27 440
        08/18 That time it was like Mavricks BRAH 8.00 12.87 01:06:56 08:22 05:12 118
        08/18 Working break 0.00 0.00 00:34:41 00:00 00:00 0
        08/19 That time it wasn't much of anything. 8.50 13.68 01:09:54 08:13 05:07 135
        08/20 That time I have a really stupid idea. 10.59 17.04 01:27:31 08:16 05:08 400
        08/21 That time red is the new green. 11.32 18.21 01:36:26 08:31 05:18 479

        Total distance: 46.52mi

         

        Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.

        VDOT 51

        5k19:35 | Marathon 2:59:10

        jhudak55


          My week:

          72 miles

           

          M: 11 miles easy (8:26)

          T: 9.6 miles with a 5 mile tempo (average of 6:38 for the tempo portion)

          W: 14 mile MLR (8:24)

          T: 5.2 miles easy (8:15)

          F: 5.2 miles recovery (9:04)

          S: 5k race in 18:36 (adjusted for short course) plus 3.2 miles warmup/cool down

          S: 21 mile long run (7:56)

           

          I was really happy with this week. I got a lot of mileage in despite less the ideal weather. Tuesdays workout was a 5 mile tempo on the track. My first mile split was 6:31 which consistently dropped off each mile. The humidity really caught up with me at the end.

           

          On Saturday I ran the same parkrun that I had 3 weeks earlier. Due to a lot of rain and flooding the night before the course was modified to a double out and back. Unfortunately, the turn around cone was placed just a bit short which led to the course being approximately 0.07 miles short. My short course time was 18:10 which I adjusted to 18:36 (assumed I would have run the last bit at the same pace).

           

          Sunday was a 21 mile long run, my longest run in over a year. I've been dealing with blisters and wet sloshing shoes due to the heat, so I decided to bring a change of shoes, socks and shorts to change into at the half way point. I'd never done this before, but I would highly recommend to anyone who sweats a lot.

          JMac11


          Milkman

            JTR - I'm surprised your run didn't go well Sunday. Was it not raining when you went out? I ran during the heavy stuff on Sunday and it was by FAR the best I've felt on a run since May. The light wind and constant rain kept me nice and cool the entire time, not ideal conditions but pretty damn good. Felt better after that 20 than I do after 8 miles in normal summer conditions

             

            The price I paid for that running though was literally the worst chafing of my life even though I prepped with copious amounts of Body Glide. I've never run 2.5 hours straight in moderate to heavy rain without a single minute of let up.

             

            DW - if you want to piss off someone from Queens, tell them they live on Long Island 

             

            Cal - looks like you do cruise intervals with a jog, but that feels very long for a 1 mile cruise interval. Would think something like 200 meters is better, no?

             

            Flavio - you definitely did not read up on how to prep for altitude! Something I made sure to do when I went to 8K+ for a month, otherwise it can knock you out for a few days.

             

            Jhud - it's amazing how wet your shoes get. You know you're in the middle of summer running when your shoes are still wet 24 hours later from your run, even though it was dry conditions...

            5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:15:00 (10/21)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

             

            Next Race: Unknown 

            JTReeves


              Cal: Yes, our training and structure of the week is fairly similar...great minds think alike.  Nice mileage for you; it seems you are figuring out a good way to incorporate the elevated HR training. I'm curious how I would deal with that; I think I'd probably get really fatigued but who knows, maybe I could handle it. Not sure about your long run second half; it sounds like it could be a dehydration issue but your pee color suggests not.

               

              Darkwave: Nice week; glad to hear you continue to feel better. Good call to have Harrisburg as a back-up. It was really well-organized last year. I've got you on the table for Indy but let me know if you want any of the shorter races listed there.

               

              OMR: Solid week. I'm envious of your 40s and 50s dew points. The last couple days the humidity plus non-stop rain from Henri has made it seem like there's more water than air in the air.

               

              Flavio: Glad you are back at sea level and I hope the back pain is gone. Are you injuring it from strength training? Maybe you need to drop down from 600 lbs for your squats. 

               

              jhudak: Northern Ohio is at least a guaranteed race so good for a back-up. Great week for you. I see it's not only Connecticut with short 5k courses. That's a great race for you nonetheless. Coincidentally, I also changed during my long run yesterday! I was doing a loop which came by my house (for hydrated purposes) and was so drenched I ran inside and changed shirt, shorts and underwear. I agree, it felt great, though it was drenched again within 4 miles.

               

              JMac: It only started to rain at the very end of my long run. There was almost no wind and it was dew point of 73-74, with similar temperature. I think it was a record for me for most sweating during a run. Think I bonked due to dehydration, as I didn't feel bad until the last third or so of the run. Anyway, I'm glad you had a good run. BTW, did you see Kenny is running (or should I say, is signed up for) NYC as well? Now that I'm less optimistic about. Even if he finishes Berlin and even wins it, I sort of doubt he'd run NYC 6 weeks later. But I'd love it to see him pull it off.

              2:52:16 (2018)

              CalBears


                RP - great week considering the circumstances. Yeah, I remember the feeling of that situation - but in 2018 it was a little bit easier (despite the fact that it was pretty long - like 3 or 4 weeks) - we knew the rains are coming, earlier or later. Now, in August it is way much tougher - we know the rains are not coming, not until at least November Sad The whole situations with rains in California is ridiculous...

                 

                jhudak - there is nothing better for your training than to see steady progress, months after month - that 5K and approx. time of 18:36 is just awesome. And considering your training mileage, you can certainly think about sub 3 - though I am not sure if you ran sub 3 or not - your name is nowhere near in the racing list. What are you training for? Smile Btw, anecdotal evidence (my own Smile - when I ran my PR marathon at 2:48 in 2015, for the next two or three months I ran three 5Ks trying to break sub 18 - the fastest I was able to run - 18:23 - that is my 5K PR Smile. So, be ready to run at least 2:50 based on 18:36 Smile

                 

                JMac - 200 meters for a job between six 1 milers at 5K pace? Where did you get that idea from? What crazy person/book gave you that advice? If you check Pfitzinger, for 1 mile intervals he advises on 50-90% of the time of the interval. If I ran 1 mile at 6 mpm, that means I can spend for a recovery 3-5 minutes - I was spending 2:30 - 2:45 - below his low recommendation.

                 

                JTR - "how you would deal with elevated HR training"? How would I know? I don't even know in my case. Just like with anything else in this life - you try and you see if you can handle it. Plus, there are so many levels of the intensity - you can run at elevated HR every day, or every other day, or 1 day on 2 days off - you just "listen to your body", right? I do not see any side effects from my change so far and I see some improvements in my fitness (I think), but is it a result of changes in training or is it just a result of mileage increase and consistency or both? Will never know 100%.

                paces PRs - 5K - 5:48  /  10K - 6:05  /  HM - 6:14  /  FM - 6:26 per mile

                CalBears


                  Good news for RP - Pfizer vaccine is approved by FDA! I believe you were waiting for that approval? What is your next excuse? Smile

                  paces PRs - 5K - 5:48  /  10K - 6:05  /  HM - 6:14  /  FM - 6:26 per mile

                  JMac11


                  Milkman

                    JT - a rare situation where running in the middle of the day led to a lot more relief than the morning! Another brutal week ahead of us here. I'm ready for even September weather, at least the dew points generally drop once we get past Labor Day. I checked the forecast and was thinking "I'll move my interval workout to the best weather day" but it's going to be 90 and humid for 4 straight days!

                     

                    Cal - Those are at 5K pace??? I thought you were doing cruise intervals (i.e. at LT pace). If those are 5K pace, I have no idea how anyone completes that workout. 3x1 mile is about the hardest workout I've ever seen at 5K pace.

                     

                    RP - agreed with Cal, go get the shot. That's my only comment here, the rest can stay in that dumpster fire thread.

                    5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:15:00 (10/21)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

                     

                    Next Race: Unknown 

                    Running Problem


                    Problem Child

                      Good news for RP - Pfizer vaccine is approved by FDA! I believe you were waiting for that approval? What is your next excuse? Smile

                       I don't want it.

                      The peer pressure from the vaccinated along with mandates to be vaccinated are the number 1 (and 2?) reason(s) I don't want it. Just let me be the 30% of the population who isn't required to be vaccinated for herd immunity. I promise I won't make national news when I die from COVID 19. You'll just notice my Strava title one day is "that time I died from COVID 19."

                       

                      JMac The Covid 19 thread is such a circle jerk. I'm not sure there is enough Wonder Bread available to keep up with the nut butter it creates. It mirrors the reason I'm glad I don't instafacegramticksbooktweet.

                      Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.

                      VDOT 51

                      5k19:35 | Marathon 2:59:10

                      flavio1980


                      Intl. correspondent

                        JHud - Monster week as usual 👏

                         

                        Jmac - I definitely did not plan it well, more to come on the me section.

                         

                        JT - LOL I wish. Actually I had a back injury back in April due to pulling up a kettlebell with poor form 🤦‍♂️

                         

                        RP - I reckon nobody should be forced to take the vax. Your life will be a lot harder but that’s your choice. 

                        I certainly respect you more than those who say are against the vaccine but are taking it cause they need it for traveling 🤦‍♂️

                         

                        I know I can’t wait to get mine, I’m in line here in Portugal but I don’t have a card with the national health system so it might take a bit of time until they either call me or I manage to get one of those cards.

                         

                        You take the crown in terms of weather complaining especially since your weather is the really shitty one.

                         

                        Me - So I did a bit of root cause analysis.

                        1 - We started traveling around for about 3 months but I didn’t realise one of my shoes would reach its end of line during the trip.

                        2 - Due to that I had to buy a less than ideal shoe (Hoka Bondi)

                        3 - The Hoka Bondi caused a back issue and was overall horrible. The back issue caused the feeling of dizziness which was really feeling unstable on top of my legs due to this back issue.

                        4 - Flew to Bogota in Colombia which is at altitude (8500 ft) and didn’t properly plan for the adaptation period.

                        5 - Suffered with altitude sickness and back pain as a result for 14 days non stop.

                         

                        So the back issue is not your usual back issue where it’s a sharp pain if you go into certain positions.

                        It’s a mild issue and I feel unstable, like if my legs were jelly. NSAIDs are helping since I started taking them yesterday.

                        I was avoiding them as I don’t want to take too much of them and roast my kidneys. 

                         

                        My digestion is back to normal now that the altitude sickness is gone.

                        I bought 2 pairs of Altra shoes so life should be good again soon (Torin 5 and Paradigm 6)

                        Back issue should hopefully resolve soon as I have a lower week planned (and another shiatsu session tomorrow).

                        Lessons learned and hopefully the sub 3 dream lives on. I have 6 weeks starting next Monday to try to muster back some fitness and avoid a DNS.

                         

                        The Hoka Bondi will be thrown in a trash bin with no honors.

                        PRs: 1500 4:51 2019 - 5K 17:56 2021 HM 1:21:59 2021

                        Up next: Rest and recover

                        Tool to generate Strava weekly

                        laserjock


                          Finished the Pikes Peak Ascent.  No where close to under 3:00 (3:32), but my training was severely disrupted with family plans.  Also the conditions above treeline were awful (~40F, +30mph winds).  It may just be my lack of preparedness, but I think the trail has changed a lot in recent years.  There seemed to be a lot more "step-ups" than were last time (2017) as they use rocks and boards across the trail to prevent erosion.  Still, I finished in the top 10 in my age bracket for the first time so I can't be too disappointed.

                           

                          I was able to hold cramps at bay with a salt tablet and carrying highly concentrated Tailwind.

                          Running Problem


                          Problem Child

                            Flavio My friend took it for travel. He thought it would be required. When work required masks for vaccinated and unvaccinated (100% of the time) he told his boss' boss "I got vaccinated so I wouldn't have to wear a mask."

                            I look at it as people go 5-10+ over the speed limit all the time. It's dangerous. It is against the law. I'm not going to start driving faster just to go with the flow or because someone tells me to because "its not that bad." There is also this thing about everyone jumping off a bridge...

                             

                            Laser sub 3 on Pikes Peak would be amazing. Good job on keeping cramps away.

                            Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.

                            VDOT 51

                            5k19:35 | Marathon 2:59:10

                            CalBears


                              JMac - no, they were not 5K intervals, more like 10K, but my idea of those rests was to recover as much as possible for the next one. I understand there is another school of "rest" where the idea is to recover as little as needed, but I do not belong to that school, looks like.

                               

                              RP - your comparison to "everybody jumping off the bridge" is plain silly - I think it's you who are standing on that bridge without realizing it. But that's me. I also cannot tell you like flavio that I respect your choice - I do not, and honestly, I do not care - it's your choice and you are doing it for yourself, your family, your friends. And I respect your right to make a choice, but not your choice. Peer pressure? Come on, anybody who "pressures" you doesn't have any brains - it's your life, it's your choice, if it's within a law (even if the law flawed) it's ok - doesn't matter what kind of choice you made. I would not bother with "peer pressure" but also would not try to make "one man standing" out of it. There is nothing "heroic" in what you are doing... Of course, totally and completely my opinion - which could definitely be wrong, but it is mine Smile

                              paces PRs - 5K - 5:48  /  10K - 6:05  /  HM - 6:14  /  FM - 6:26 per mile

                              Running Problem


                              Problem Child

                                JMac - no, they were not 5K intervals, more like 10K, but my idea of those rests was to recover as much as possible for the next one. I understand there is another school of "rest" where the idea is to recover as little as needed, but I do not belong to that school, looks like.

                                 

                                RP - your comparison to "everybody jumping off the bridge" is plain silly - I think it's you who are standing on that bridge without realizing it. But that's me. I also cannot tell you like flavio that I respect your choice - I do not, and honestly, I do not care - it's your choice and you are doing it for yourself, your family, your friends. And I respect your right to make a choice, but not your choice. Peer pressure? Come on, anybody who "pressures" you doesn't have any brains - it's your life, it's your choice, if it's within a law (even if the law flawed) it's ok - doesn't matter what kind of choice you made. I would not bother with "peer pressure" but also would not try to make "one man standing" out of it. There is nothing "heroic" in what you are doing... Of course, totally and completely my opinion - which could definitely be wrong, but it is mine Smile

                                Cal I support the vaccine. I also support the freedom to choose. I don't support the ideology "we need to convince those who are hesitant they're wrong for thinking they have a reason to be unvaccinated anymore."

                                My honest prediction is the local and state authorities will mandate it because nothing else has worked to get 70% fully vaccinated. I'm probably not going to be allowed in CIM because California is going to mandate the vaccine for anyone who goes into public and exercising outdoors will no longer be exempted from wearing a mask. Won't matter. Based on current fitness I'm not anywhere near a time I could use to get into Boston 2023.

                                At least I appreciate you telling me you don't respect my choice, and you don't care about it. *virtual long distance elbow bump*

                                Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.

                                VDOT 51

                                5k19:35 | Marathon 2:59:10