2021 Sub 3:00 Marathon Thread (Read 389 times)

CalBears


    Air is currently a 112. It's a miracle. Who woke up this morning say "man, I hope we have air good enough to be just unhealthy to sensitive groups" ? Anyone? At least the area is expecting some 14-20 mph winds through Tuesday. Either it will blow the smoke IN, or out. I don't even look at the temperature anymore because smoke inhalation is more dangerous than COVID 19.

     

    Just like in financial markets, somebody's gain is another's loss. We have a first (actually a second, but that day was 3 weeks ago) time AQI is 180+ and I feel it - it's awful. Hopefully it clears up, but I do not hold my breath - wind is of a wrong direction 

    paces PRs - 5K - 5:48  /  10K - 6:05  /  HM - 6:14  /  FM - 6:26 per mile

      The East coast is so lush, green, and rainy - never any forest fires.  It seems like the West is just going to keep scorching and burning every summer.

        Zero accountability on the government... 

        I never pegged you as a big-government type  (kidding ) ...Can you imagine cleaning up sticks and doing controlled burns in Montana?

         

        In the short term (next decade), I think finding an option to train on a TM in the summer is practical.

        Running Problem


        Problem Child

          I never pegged you as a big-government type  (kidding ) ...Can you imagine cleaning up sticks and doing controlled burns in Montana?

           

          In the short term (next decade), I think finding an option to train on a TM in the summer is practical.

           

          Maybe some federal stimulus money due to Covid 19 wild fires will help me afford a treadmill since I’ve lost my running location due to Covid 19 California not managing shit wildfires. 

          Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.

          VDOT 51

          5k19:35 | Marathon 2:59:10

          Running Problem


          Problem Child

             

            Just like in financial markets, somebody's gain is another's loss. We have a first (actually a second, but that day was 3 weeks ago) time AQI is 180+ and I feel it - it's awful. Hopefully it clears up, but I do not hold my breath - wind is of a wrong direction 

            The costal breeze blowing everything west is nice isn’t it? Time for California to keep their smoke. Maybe your Governor will do something. Perhaps the Legislature can ban outdoor smoke or fine all forests allowing fires. 

            Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.

            VDOT 51

            5k19:35 | Marathon 2:59:10

            flavio1980


            Intl. correspondent

              Pepper - woah, that’s a nasty amount of smoke!

               

              me - Hell yeah I have a weekly to report!

               

              So we need to go down about 800m with 50m elevation difference to the river margin where it's much more pleasant to run. On Tue and Wed I figured I'd just run it down on the way out and climb it back up on the way back. I was feeling such a Rambo going uphill. But then the soreness got in real hard on the top of my other back issues so I quickly came to reason and now I walk all the way down, then start running down there and then finish my run there and walk my way up. Much smarter. At last.

              On Friday I went to a local PT and she had to work a lot. She mostly focused on trying to unlock my pecs and neck which were ridiculously tight and pulling the back muscles causing pain on the upper back. The session was not very comfortable as she was working out the niggles but now 2 days after I can see the results and I can say I'm quite happy. The back is not well yet but in a better place and I was able to stop with the anti inflammatory pills. I'm going back tomorrow for another round of work.

              It was funny during the session she would say "Now relax your leg" to which I replied: It is relaxed and she'd say: No it's not.

              Apparently I have almost no control over my body, I'm like just a big ball of nerves doing whatever they like 😂

               

              Then I got a foam roller, and it's already been very helpful.

               

              Then I got new shoes and they're perfect. It's crazy, I've put the Torins for a vo2max workout on Friday (first time wearing them) and it just works. It's like I have it for 2 months.

               

              Then I got 2 boxes of Maurten gels. One regular and one caffeinated for the wife.

              I must say Maurten Gels are awesome. They're not as sweet, they have a jello consistency which is nicer and the most important thing I've noticed. They're not as acid or at least they don't feel as acid as the other gels. I can see why they would be easier on the stomach.

              I need to try them out in my long runs, just gotta figure out how best to lay them out and also hydration.

              I reckon I'll use the Darkwave® method which consists of clipping them internally in the running shorts, seeing as I don't have pockets big enough for them.

               

              Then we managed a miracle and got a provisory number with the national health system (thanks to an incredibly efficient and helpful public worker) and as such we have managed to schedule the first dose of the vaccine for this Friday, Sep 3rd.

               

              Overall I'd say I started the week at maybe 30% and now I'm around 75%. But most importantly the sub 3 marathon dream is alive and life seems to be on the upswing.

               

              Weekly for period: From: 08/23/2021 To 08/29/2021

              Date Name mi km Duration Avg/mi Avg/km Elevation Gain
              in ft
              08/24 Am I back? Not sure yet 🤔 5.55 8.94 00:44:36 08:02 04:59 226
              08/25 It's 🥵 and humid and windy and I have to 🧗50m up on the last km and I ❤️ it 7.01 11.27 00:55:58 07:59 04:58 348
              08/26 8mi + 4 strides 8.20 13.20 01:07:15 08:12 05:06 338
              08/27 8x800 w 90s rest work down from 3:15 to 3:00 per rep 9.39 15.12 01:09:56 07:27 04:38 82
              08/28 5mi + 4 strides 5.20 8.37 00:41:50 08:03 05:00 102
              08/29 Morning Run 14.01 22.54 01:50:13 07:52 04:53 322

              Total distance: 49.37mi

              PRs: 1500 4:51 2019 - 5K 17:56 2021 HM 1:21:59 2021

              Up next: Rest and recover

              Tool to generate Strava weekly

              darkwave


              Mother of Cats

                Flavio - good news all around - it seems like things are falling into place in multiple areas all at the same time!

                 

                FWIW, I agree that big climbs or drops at the very beginning of a run can be very hard on the body.

                 

                +++

                 

                My week:

                 

                63 miles running, 3 hours pool-running, and 1500 yards swimming.
                M: 90 minutes pool-running and streaming yoga.
                T: 12 miles, including a track workout of 2x1200, 2x800, 2x400 in 4:47, 4:44, 3:06, 3:01, 87 and 87. Recoveries of ~3 minutes after each 1200 or 800; 1:40 recovery between the 400s. Followed with leg strengthwork and 500 yards recovery swimming.
                W: 8.5 miles easy (9:36) to gym, then upper body weights/core, followed by 3.5 miles very easy home (9:09) and then drills, two hill strides, two flat strides.
                Th: 90 minutes pool-running and streaming yoga.
                Fr: 12 miles, including a cruise intervals workout of 3x1 mile, 2x5 minutes at tempo effort. 60 second recovery after each, except for 3 minutes recovery between the last mile and first 5 minute segment. Paces/splits were 6:45, 6:44, 6:40, 6:40, and 6:36.  After full recovery followed with four sets of 30 seconds at mile effort with 60 second jog.  Then did leg strengthwork and 500 yards recovery swimming.
                Sa: 10.5 miles very easy outside (9:20) plus drills and four hill sprints, followed by upper body weights/core.
                Su: 16 miles progressive, split as first 5 averaging 9:29 pace, next 5 averaging 7:59 pace, next 6 averaging 7:14 pace, and then a half-mile jog. Followed with leg strengthwork and 500 yards recovery swimming.

                 

                Things are heading in the right direction for me as well - I feel like I'm really absorbing the training now, instead of just getting tired from it.    I checked my iron levels again and they've improved dramatically from 5 weeks ago (transferrin saturation went from 17% to 40%) which matches how I feel.  I'm hopeful that I may be able to back off the iron supplements soon.

                 

                In case anyone is wondering about the complexity of Friday's workout....it was very hot and humid (temp 77, DP 76).  I started off planning to do 4-5x1 mile at tempo effort with 1 minute jog, but that ended up being a bit more than I could handle (I should have gone with 5 minute segments).  So I took 3 minutes recovery and then did another 2x5minutes just to get a bit more work in at tempo effort.  Looks ugly in the training log but got the job done.

                Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

                 

                And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

                CalBears


                  flavio - glad your issues are getting resolved, this is way too much for a normal person, but I cannot imagine how you can handle it with running plans. Unbelievable...

                   

                  dw - yeah, that's what I thought - you din't give up training in your difficult previous weeks and now it is paying off. Friday workout looks really good to me.

                   

                  My week ended with B-goal Santa Rosa marathon. 80 miles two previous weeks with an idea to run it as a race, but without much taper - minimizing loss of training for Boston in October. The bad news - I missed sub 3 by 14 seconds. The good news - my 24 and last 0.3 miles would give me sub 3 time with some cushion, I lost all the necessary seconds during miles 25 and 26 - 7:15 and 7:02. My quads just didn't allow me to do it better - both these miles have highest HR for any of my miles - so, the effort was definitely there, but legs just didn't move (aerobically I felt good). Also, on paper course profile looks pretty flat, but there were quite a few spans with some hills which I certainly didn't like. In any case - I am so glad I had a race - nothing can emulate the feeling of a real race. I think it will also helped me with refreshing my race memories re how much hurt I can experience and how much of it I can tolerate Smile.

                   

                  My week:

                   

                  Mo - 5.05 @10:07

                  Tu - 6.62 @7:40 with 3 x 1 mile 400 jog (6:35,6:32,6:36)

                  We - 6.65 @9:01

                  Th - 6.47 @9:03

                  Fr - 5.2 @7:36 with 2 miles @MP effort (felt hard)

                  Sa - 4.12 @8:51

                  Su - Santa Rosa marathon - 26.3 @6:51 - 3:00:14

                  ===

                  Total: 61.6 miles

                  paces PRs - 5K - 5:48  /  10K - 6:05  /  HM - 6:14  /  FM - 6:26 per mile

                  JTReeves


                    Flavio: Good to hear things are going better for you and that the sub 3 attempt is still on! I also like the Maurten gels, though SIS are my favorite. They are equally large and awkward.

                     

                    Darkwave: Great to see things getting better for you. I totally understand scaling back the tempo workout given those conditions.

                     

                    Cal: Nice job on the marathon today! That's a solid result given the lack of taper. Looks like the last 6 miles or so was all uphill; maybe gradual, but any uphill makes it tougher, especially at the end of a marathon. So the fact you only really slipped off the pace for 25 and 26 is a pretty strong performance.

                     

                    This was my biggest week of the cycle, with the biggest LR as well. Overall I'm feeling pretty good, and not as dead as I would have thought given the mileage and running 7 days a week. I have a tune-up half on Labor Day, so next weekend there will be no long run and thus this coming week will be a drop in mileage; probably a good thing. This was my 7th week in a row over 70 mpw which is definitely a record for me. 6 weeks now till Hartford, and 5 weeks till Hamptons marathon. I'm thinking more and more that if the weather is good, I'll run the Hamptons. Partly because it is a flatter course, and partly because I feel like I'm ready to go!

                     

                    Weekly for period: From: 08/23/2021 To 08/29/2021

                    Date Name mi km Duration Avg/mi Avg/km Elevation Gain
                    in ft
                    08/23 Morning Run 6.36 10.24 59:29 9:21 5:49 0
                    08/24 Morning Run 10.12 16.28 1:26:17 8:32 5:18 584
                    08/25 Morning Run w/ 9x3 min on/2 min off + 1 mi (5:46) 12.66 20.38 1:29:15 7:03 4:23 551
                    08/26 Morning Run 8.14 13.10 1:08:02 8:21 5:12 469
                    08/27 Morning Run 10.10 16.26 1:23:53 8:18 5:10 581
                    08/28 Trail run 8.21 13.20 1:16:47 9:21 5:49 541
                    08/29 Long run w/ 11E + 5M (6:24) + 1E + 5M (6:26) 22.33 35.92 2:37:06 7:02 4:22 899

                    Total distance: 77.92 mi

                    2:52:16 (2018)

                    Running Problem


                    Problem Child

                      Great job Cal. I’m happy for you.

                       

                      EDIT: I was trying to find results. On the marathon face page there were people upset about the air quality being 150+ for the race asking if it will be canceled. They called it a scam which seemed odd to me because the race isn't a scam. Congratulations again. It impressed me you run 3:00 marathons at your age, and even more you're doing it without it being the goal.

                      Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.

                      VDOT 51

                      5k19:35 | Marathon 2:59:10

                      JMac11


                      Milkman

                        Flavio - I have yet to meet someone who doesn't like Maurten. Amazing what they've done. Regarding shorts, I've found I can store 4 Maurtens in my short and run okay. Happy to hear you are getting a shot. First shot is fine, if you're doing two dose, make sure you don't have any tough workouts planned the next am.

                         

                        DW - I see you've been running a lot of MP runs. Surprised at the amount of them even though I do like them.

                         

                        Cal - I saw you with a disappointed comment on Strava about getting old. Nearly sub 3 with no taper in a marathon is so good! You are in better shape than you were a couple of years ago and you are set up for success the rest of this fall. Good shot at sub 2:55.

                         

                        JT - I actually was thinking about your run on Sunday during my run. It was just so good. I have to be honest though: as this point, it's really just a matter of you executing your taper and race. There is no excuse not to PR this time around given you are running MP runs 10 seconds faster than your current PR, barring some other health issue. I'm still surprised how you often choose the small marathon over the big one. You've had your last few (I think) where you're out there alone. Having run my last couple of races with nobody within sniffing distance of me, I've begun to realize more and more how important it is to have people around you. I also think you're discounting how windy the Hamptons can get, I think the weather risk out there is way higher than you may be accounting for. I don't know that a slightly hillier Hartford course offsets those two. Anyway, just my opinion, but I think you run a much bigger risk of missing your goal running Hamptons than Hartford.

                        5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:15:28 (3/20)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

                         

                        Next Race: Suffolk County Half (10/24)

                        CalBears


                          Great job Cal. I’m happy for you.

                           

                          EDIT: I was trying to find results. On the marathon face page there were people upset about the air quality being 150+ for the race asking if it will be canceled. They called it a scam which seemed odd to me because the race isn't a scam. Congratulations again. It impressed me you run 3:00 marathons at your age, and even more you're doing it without it being the goal.

                           

                          Thanks RP. The air quality was OK I believe, I checked weather.com site before leaving for the start and it was 85, and I didn't feel/smell anything damaging in the air. Those people were complaining on Friday when AQI was actually 150+, yes, the air was really not good for a long running. But still - not sure why they called it scam - my guess, they decided not to run and wanted their money back, based on AQI number.

                           

                          JMac - yeah, I guess it was a disappointment after the race - it was so close to sub 3, though my wife said - it's like you never ran sub 3 before. And she is right - if it was a goal, first attempt on sub 3, then it would be a big disappointment, but this - yeah, just a small disappointment Smile

                           

                          It's funny they changed AG groups this year - this year we have to compete within 10 years range 30-39, 40-49, 50-59, etc.. And I maybe not right, but trying to fit 30 yo and 39yo within the same age range is totally different from comparing result for 40 yo and 49 yo - there is a big difference between what you can do at 40 and 49. And I think there is even bigger difference between 50yo and 59yo, or just imagine comparing 60yo and 69yo - this is so stupid to put those ages in the same age group, totally idiotic.

                           

                          Though, in my case, I was 3rd AG and the 1st guy was 54yo and the 2nd was 53. So, not a big age difference. But still, if they kept old age groups ranges, like 55-59, I would take 1st Smile

                           

                          One more thing - today is Monday, but my quads are screaming like I nothing else. I am really surprised - it reminds me my first HM in 2011 - I could barely walk for 3 days after 1:42 race Smile. I guess that's what minimum taper does to you, also, not sure if it was a right decision to run 3x1 (even if at 6:35 pace) 4 days before the race. But, hopefully it will pay off for Boston. I was checking some runners times on Strava and so many people just gave up during those last 6 miles of the marathon - totally understandable to some degree - the course went up last 6 miles and the temps got hotter - I definitely had those thoughts too, like - I had enough fast miles by then, let's continue in easier mode, but then decided to continue trying and explore how much hurt I could bear - long forgotten feeling due to covid (and impossible to emulate in TTs). So, exploration was successful, I gave my best at miles 25-26 and still could not break sub 7 pace Smile - it hurt so much...

                          paces PRs - 5K - 5:48  /  10K - 6:05  /  HM - 6:14  /  FM - 6:26 per mile

                          darkwave


                          Mother of Cats

                             

                            DW - I see you've been running a lot of MP runs. Surprised at the amount of them even though I do like them.

                             

                            That's not new. Our training group does MP running pretty much every week, regardless of whether one is currently pointing towards a marathon or not. Standard long run is 1/3 easy, 1/3 moderate, 1/3 hard. It's just that the distance of the LR lengthens as we get into the depths of the marathon cycle. But 14 miles with the last 4-5 at marathon effort is the basic default long run.

                             

                            CalBears - I am ridiculously impressed that you got that close to sub-3 without a taper. And I agree with you on the big difference between the top end and bottom end of a 10 year age group.

                             

                            JTReeves - everything looking good! No idea about the Hamptons as a race, but given where you are, I like the idea of racing a marathon a week sooner, since I think you might be close to your peak.

                            Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

                             

                            And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

                              Quick shout out to Cal yes that was a ridiculously good time coming from a short buildup.

                              I guess they save on age group awards by stretching them out. It happens here alot.

                              50+ PBs -  

                              5k 18.21 Hagley Parkrun  July 21      82.27 % age grade

                              10k TT 37.21 may 2nd 2021 strava run 82.51 % age grade

                              Half marathon  1.23.30 may 21 80.11 % age grade

                              " If you don't use it you lose it,  but if you use it, it wears out.

                              Somewhere in between is about right "      

                               

                              JTReeves


                                JMac and Darkwave: Thanks for the feedback. I am kind of torn between the 2 marathon options. Hamptons is a much flatter course, and a week sooner which as Darkwave noted might be a good thing as far as timing my peak. On the other hand, it would be a new experience for me, and I'd have to stay overnight there (not up to a 3 hour drive on race morning), and the wind could be brutal on the shoreline which is where the bulk of the course runs. With Hartford I know it well, can sleep in my own bed the night before and have more mental peace leading up to it. Most likely I'll end up doing Hartford, but if the weather forecast looks perfect (including wind) for Hamptons I will be tempted.

                                 

                                JMac, as far as me choosing smaller races, just worked out that way based on me seeking out flat courses that were relatively local (like Harrisburg and Cheap) or worked with a visit to Michigan (like Athens and Martian). Not actively avoiding large races! I'd like to run Detroit, Chicago and Berlin at some point.

                                2:52:16 (2018)