2021 Sub 3:00 Marathon Thread (Read 350 times)

Andres1045


     

    One more thing - today is Monday, but my quads are screaming like I nothing else. I am really surprised - it reminds me my first HM in 2011 - I could barely walk for 3 days after 1:42 race Smile. I guess that's what minimum taper does to you, also, not sure if it was a right decision to run 3x1 (even if at 6:35 pace) 4 days before the race. But, hopefully it will pay off for Boston. I was checking some runners times on Strava and so many people just gave up during those last 6 miles of the marathon - totally understandable to some degree - the course went up last 6 miles and the temps got hotter - I definitely had those thoughts too, like - I had enough fast miles by then, let's continue in easier mode, but then decided to continue trying and explore how much hurt I could bear - long forgotten feeling due to covid (and impossible to emulate in TTs). So, exploration was successful, I gave my best at miles 25-26 and still could not break sub 7 pace Smile - it hurt so much...

    Did you wear your Nike carbon plated shoes? Or, at least I thought you had some. I had a similar experience last year when I ran in the Vaporfly for a half marathon. Felt great through 10, thought I'd easily cruise in for my goal, then hit a wall at 11.5.  I also felt destroyed after the race way more than I thought would be necessary for that type of effort. I suspected not having raced/run much in those shoes was part of the issue.

    Upcoming races: Boston

    JMac11


    Taper Czar

      I didn't get to post my week earlier. Both quality workouts were good this week. I'm still pretty far off of paces I need to be at, but this was the first week I felt "strong" in my workouts. A good example is the 6x1K workout. Earlier this summer, I ran that workout with only a 2 mile warmup and felt like I was going to vomit at the end of it with pacing all over the place. This one, I finished all the reps near similar paces and felt good at the end. I'm focusing a bit more on VO2 max stuff right now since I have my 10K coming in a few weeks, so it's a good mix of marathon and 10K training.

       

      I think things are beginning to click and with still a long way to go to CIM, I'm very happy with where I'm at in training.

       

      JT - that's true, I think you mentioned the big vs. small last time I brought this up. I still lean towards a slightly hillier race with more people around you than a crapshoot weather day in the Hamptons. good luck running tomorrow and Thursday. Of course I have another quality day scheduled when it's going to rain 3+ inches...

       

      DW - definitely not new, was more of a comment that I'm surprised how often you guys run it. Seems not only monotonous, but given the conversation we've had here on MP, not really that beneficial. I guess if you're still running your mid-week workouts well it's fine, but finishing every long run with MP blocks that are not continuous gives you neither the mental training of long blocks at MP nor the ability to recover quickly from a workout that doesn't really have too much physical stimulus (at least based on a lot of reading I've done, could be wrong on that). I've adapted my training based on all of this to either be a) long blocks at MP for the mental benefit or b) running a Pfitz style long run, where you're trying to finish around MP+10%. Anyway I'm not a coach and you're very successful but just something I noticed.

       

      Weekly for period: From: 08/23/2021 To 08/29/2021

      Date Name mi km Duration Avg/mi Avg/km Elevation Gain
      in ft
      08/23 Evening Run 6.35 10.22 00:51:37 08:08 05:03 220
      08/24 Afternoon Run 9.48 15.25 01:14:50 07:54 04:54 367
      08/25 8E + 6x1000I (3:26) + 2E 15.01 24.15 01:56:13 07:45 04:49 486
      08/27 Evening Run 8.25 13.27 01:07:58 08:14 05:07 335
      08/28 Afternoon Run 10.39 16.72 01:20:21 07:44 04:48 364
      08/29 2E + 2x2T (5:55) + 8E + 2T (6:02) + 2E 18.42 29.64 02:14:28 07:18 04:32 623

      Total distance: 67.91mi

      5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:15:28 (3/20)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

       

      Next Race: Cow Harbor 10K (9/18)

      CalBears


        Did you wear your Nike carbon plated shoes? Or, at least I thought you had some. I had a similar experience last year when I ran in the Vaporfly for a half marathon. Felt great through 10, thought I'd easily cruise in for my goal, then hit a wall at 11.5.  I also felt destroyed after the race way more than I thought would be necessary for that type of effort. I suspected not having raced/run much in those shoes was part of the issue.

         

        Yep... I wore Vaporfly 4 (not Next%). Honestly, I didn't notice any "pop" running in them or any other special qualities. I have few pairs of Nike Fly Flyknit and I think they are as good as Vaporflys 4 - only 2-3 times less expensive. Honestly - was not impressed with shoes. Of course, I could start training in them but that goes against any logic - training in $250 shoes? That's crazy!

         

        JTR - absolutely agree with JMac - go and run good big race with good chances of nice weather (CIM? Smile if you want best out of you. Nothing will compare with that feeling running with dozens of runners who are running at your pace. I understand that comfort of your own bed, but man... That's pretty lame for a man Smile

         

        JMac - very solid week for end of August. 10-15 more miles and you are consistently at 80+ and I am sure speed will follow (just buy more training shoes - do not run on Monday in your wet sneakers you ran your Sunday's LR Smile

        paces PRs - 5K - 5:55  /  10K - 6:05  /  HM - 6:14  /  FM - 6:26 per mile

        jhudak55


          My week:

          40.2 miles

           

          M: 5.2 miles recovery (9:56)

          T: 11 miles easy (8:30)

          W: 14 mile MLR (8:22)

          T: AM-6 miles recovery (9:11); PM-4 miles easy (8:36)

          F-M: Off

           

          Lower mileage week for me due to some travel over the weekend. I probably could have forced some running in, but that would have severely cut into my sleep so I decided to just take a mini break. Couple days off helped clear up a couple of niggles I was dealing with, so not all bad.

           

          Catching up on everyone's weeklies.

          JTReeves


            JTR - absolutely agree with JMac - go and run good big race with good chances of nice weather (CIM? Smile if you want best out of you. Nothing will compare with that feeling running with dozens of runners who are running at your pace. I understand that comfort of your own bed, but man... That's pretty lame for a man Smile

             

            CIM definitely seems to be a PR course; there's a lot of examples just from this group with PRs from it (you, RP, JMac, Darkwave, and your good buddy Nimmals all come to mind). But I want to get sub 2:50 on a non-downhill course. If that doesn't happen in the next few attempts then I'll surrender and let gravity pull me under 2:50 at CIM. 

            2:52:16 (2018)

            JMac11


            Taper Czar

               

              CIM definitely seems to be a PR course; there's a lot of examples just from this group with PRs from it (you, RP, JMac, Darkwave, and your good buddy Nimmals all come to mind). But I want to get sub 2:50 on a non-downhill course. If that doesn't happen in the next few attempts then I'll surrender and let gravity pull me under 2:50 at CIM. 

               

              I hope to see nimmals at either Cow Harbor or Suffolk Half and give him a big hello from Cal and Mikkey. I'm sure he'll appreciate it.

               

              Good planning on CIM. The only training you need is to learn how to properly tuck your elbows and knees in. If you do that, you can just bend down at the start line, tuck it all in, and roll your way to the finish.

              5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:15:28 (3/20)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

               

              Next Race: Cow Harbor 10K (9/18)

              CalBears


                 

                CIM definitely seems to be a PR course; there's a lot of examples just from this group with PRs from it (you, RP, JMac, Darkwave, and your good buddy Nimmals all come to mind). But I want to get sub 2:50 on a non-downhill course. If that doesn't happen in the next few attempts then I'll surrender and let gravity pull me under 2:50 at CIM. 

                 

                My goodness... Gravity... Then you definitely need to come and run it for fun to see that "gravity" in action. It's a lot of things that work so well for CIM - weather is not the last one of them. The course is 26 miles - there are 3 miles with 50 ft descent and 2 miles 30 ft descent, there is one mile with 30 ft ascent and the rest of the miles between +10 and -15 ft. There are 20 non-flat miles - I mean first 20 miles are all going up and down, there is no one flat mile till mile 20. I know people who had a shock after running the course - because they were brainwashed by others who were saying it is all downhill course Smile Yeah, come and run it Smile (just for comparison - Boston has 2 miles with 100+ ft of descent and 9 miles with descent of 45+ ft; yes, it has 89 ft ascent mile, two miles at 50 and 60 ft ascent and 2 miles at 20 ft ascent - I would say CIM is kind of smoother run then Boston, but Boston is basically down till mile 16 and then down from mile 22 - CIM is basically flat from mile 20).

                 

                And 100% honestly, it's just a coincidence that I ran my PR at CIM - because I love running CIM, but I was in incredible shape in 2015 - I would get that Moose Mug at any course at that moment.

                 

                Now that I thought about it, I want to run Chicago once again - I usually bashing Chicago course and it's kind of boring - mainly I am referring to the second part of the course, the first one ends exactly in the middle of downtown and there are lot of spectators and a lot of energy. But the main thing - it's amazingly flat, you can find a rhythm there and just get into a zone. I would especially appreciate that after running this last Santa Rosa marathon - it is advertised as flat course and it is not, it breaks your rhythm quite a few times. And a lot of turns, too much for my liking.

                paces PRs - 5K - 5:55  /  10K - 6:05  /  HM - 6:14  /  FM - 6:26 per mile

                OMR


                  A quick drive-by from me to congratulate cal on that 3:00 marathon.  Very impressive.  And a quick shout-out to the rest of you.  Classes are underway for me, so the past week has been hectic, and I'm having to readjust to things.

                   

                  Last week for me was a mixed bag.  I had a great workout on Monday.  My paces were quite a bit faster than normal, due to lower temps and humidity.  I paid for that with an extremely tight hamstring, so the 5K race I had planned on Wednesday evening wound up being my first pacing experience.  One of my colleagues was hoping to run sub-27, and I got him in sub-26, so not a hard run, but satisfying to help him do something he's never done before.  Tried running again on Friday, and the hamstring still wasn't happy, so I took the weekend off to let things settle down.  Started up again yesterday, and things seem to be OK.


                  Elite Jogger

                     

                    CIM definitely seems to be a PR course; there's a lot of examples just from this group with PRs from it (you, RP, JMac, Darkwave, and your good buddy Nimmals all come to mind). But I want to get sub 2:50 on a non-downhill course. If that doesn't happen in the next few attempts then I'll surrender and let gravity pull me under 2:50 at CIM. 

                     

                    That’s what I like to hear. Good man. 

                    5k - 17:53 (4/19)   10k - 37:53 (11/18)   Half - 1:23:18 (4/19)   Full - 2:50:43 (4/19)

                    JMac11


                    Taper Czar

                       

                      And 100% honestly, it's just a coincidence that I ran my PR at CIM - because I love running CIM, but I was in incredible shape in 2015 - I would get that Moose Mug at any course at that moment.

                       

                      Now that I thought about it, I want to run Chicago once again - I usually bashing Chicago course and it's kind of boring - mainly I am referring to the second part of the course, the first one ends exactly in the middle of downtown and there are lot of spectators and a lot of energy. But the main thing - it's amazingly flat, you can find a rhythm there and just get into a zone. I would especially appreciate that after running this last Santa Rosa marathon - it is advertised as flat course and it is not, it breaks your rhythm quite a few times. And a lot of turns, too much for my liking.

                       

                      They're just trolling you (us?) Cal. You make CIM a 100% dead flat course and you lose 15-30 seconds. It's by far the best marathon in my opinion for people under sub 3 because:

                       

                      a) fast people to run with

                      b) super easy logistics

                      c) by FAR the best weather (can't think of a single marathon within sniffing distance of CIM, even London/Berlin don't compare)

                       

                      Don't run Chicago again, a complete waste of time. I have zero interest in running that course based on everything I've read. The weather is good there 25% of the time and the course sucks. Much better to just go to NYC and at least enjoy the race, Boston for the history, or stick to CIM given how good/local it is. Chicago is the worst of all choices. The boringness of CIM with the weather of Boston. Gross.

                      5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:15:28 (3/20)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

                       

                      Next Race: Cow Harbor 10K (9/18)

                      JTReeves


                        Things one can count on:

                        -Death

                        -Taxes

                        -Cal taking the bait every time you say CIM is a downhill course 

                         

                        Seriously Cal, I meant no disrespect to your PR or anyone else's. And I know you were in fantastic shape that cycle (I was lurking from the 3:10 group back then) and would have killed it wherever you raced.

                         

                        I really think CIM should hire you to their marketing department; nobody sells that race better than you.

                         

                        JMac: Such hatred for Chicago even though you've never run it?

                         

                        Mikkey: How is the foot issue?

                        2:52:16 (2018)

                        darkwave


                        Mother of Cats

                           

                          Don't run Chicago again, a complete waste of time. I have zero interest in running that course based on everything I've read. The weather is good there 25% of the time and the course sucks. Much better to just go to NYC and at least enjoy the race, Boston for the history, or stick to CIM given how good/local it is. Chicago is the worst of all choices. The boringness of CIM with the weather of Boston. Gross.

                           

                          You've never run Chicago, have you?

                           

                          I actually really like that course, and think it's one of the fastest and mentally easiest marathons to run.  There's just enough turns to make it seem like you are flying through the course, and it's very well organized.

                           

                          If you could guarantee that Chicago and CIM would have the exact same weather, I'd always go with Chicago.  It's just the risk of warm weather that throws me off, plus the fact that there are so many other good fall options.

                          Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

                           

                          And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

                          JMac11


                          Taper Czar

                             

                            If you could guarantee that Chicago and CIM would have the exact same weather, I'd always go with Chicago.  It's just the risk of warm weather that throws me off, plus the fact that there are so many other good fall options.

                             

                            But that's exactly the point! The weather is trash. Obviously I would run Chicago too if the weather was good, CIM is even MORE boring as a course. But all of us posting here have a reasonable shot at another PR at the distance. Why would you waste that on Chicago where your chance of a good weather day is 25% or worse? That was the entire point I was making.

                             

                            I'd only run Chicago if I was going to just jog it or years down the road when an absolute PR is out of the equation.

                            5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:15:28 (3/20)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

                             

                            Next Race: Cow Harbor 10K (9/18)


                            Elite Jogger

                               

                               

                              Mikkey: How is the foot issue?

                               

                              I’m definitely on the mend, but still not quite ready to start proper training yet.  I saw a private Orthopaedic surgeon last month and the “heel spur” on my left foot was diagnosed as insertional Achilles tendinopathy but didn’t recommend surgery as it isn’t that serious and to just keep up the strength work which is fine with me. The right foot X Ray didn’t show anything unusual and diagnosed as Plantar Fasciitis, but this is by far the worst injury I’ve ever had as it literally takes months to calm down...but the good news is that it should eventually clear up. I’m currently having shockwave therapy on both feet (just had my 4th one yesterday and planning on 6 with maybe a top up every month)

                               

                              I’ll have to give London a miss next month and Cal already knows that I’ll be looking at Boston in 2023 before I see him....or possibly a European marathon next fall. 😉

                               

                              Good luck with the sub 2:50 attempt and really hope you do it this time!

                              5k - 17:53 (4/19)   10k - 37:53 (11/18)   Half - 1:23:18 (4/19)   Full - 2:50:43 (4/19)

                              darkwave


                              Mother of Cats

                                 

                                But that's exactly the point! The weather is trash. Obviously I would run Chicago too if the weather was good, CIM is even MORE boring as a course. But all of us posting here have a reasonable shot at another PR at the distance. Why would you waste that on Chicago where your chance of a good weather day is 25% or worse? That was the entire point I was making.

                                 

                                I'd only run Chicago if I was going to just jog it or years down the road when an absolute PR is out of the equation.

                                 

                                So I took your point as "a) the weather is awful and b) the course sucks."

                                 

                                I disagree strongly with b). I don't think the Chicago course sucks at all.  I think it's a great course, and one of my favorites.

                                 

                                As for the "weather sucks" that's a stronger statement than my view.  I think Chicago has about the same chance of good weather as Grandmas or Houston, with the added advantage that you've been training through summer and so are acclimated.  The year I ran Chicago it was in the mid-50s rising to low 60s, with low humidity.  Not perfect, but I'd give it an A-, especially since I was acclimated.  And I think that's pretty average weather for Chicago.

                                 

                                I also think that Chicago is a much better weather risk than Boston.

                                 

                                The big difference is that Chicago's weather seems like more of an issue because you have so many other options for fast fall marathons.  That's different from Grandma's, Houston, or Boston..

                                Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

                                 

                                And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.